Dr. Thom Rainer, The Anxious Generation Goes to Church

00:00:00 Thanks for being here today. My name is Kevin Conover. I’m your host on Educate for Life. And our podcast uh is

00:00:06 broadcast all over the country, all over the world. Uh we’re on YouTube, we’re on Spotify, all the different platforms. My

00:00:12 website’s educateforlife.org. All kinds of resources there for you and your family to help uh raise up confident

00:00:20 Christians. That’s the goal. And um that is my hope is that families would be

00:00:26 able to raise their kids to love Jesus and u would be able to handle all the the skeptical attacks coming their way

00:00:33 as they get older and move out of the home. So we have a fantastic guest with us today and um his name is Tom Rener

00:00:41 and um Tom is the founder of Church Answers. It’s an online community and resource for church leaders. Prior to

00:00:48 founding Church Answers, he served at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for 12 years. He was the founding dean of the Billy Graham School

00:00:54 of Missions and Evangelism. And um in addition to speaking in hundreds of

00:00:59 venues over the past 20 years, he led Rainer Group, a church and denominational consulting firm from 1990

00:01:05 to 2005. That firm provided church health insights to over 500 churches and

00:01:10 other organizations over that period. and he’s the author of more than two dozen books including I am a church

00:01:16 member, Breakout Churches, autopsy of a deceased church, who moved my pulpit and

00:01:23 anatomy of a revived church and recently just came out with a book um the anxious

00:01:28 generation goes to church. And so, uh Tom, thanks for being with us. Hey, it is great to be with you guys and

00:01:35 uh thank you for letting you said you’re in Southern California and the rest of you in disparit places. So, I am here in

00:01:41 Franklin, Tennessee. I’m delighted to be with you. Yeah. Well, this is um obviously very

00:01:46 timely book, but this is what you’ve made a career out of is helping churches um navigate the needs of the people

00:01:54 they’re trying to reach. Um what what caused you to get into this field in particular? Why were you drawn to

00:02:00 helping pastors identify the needs of their congregation and those who are not a part of their congregation?

00:02:05 My story could go way back, Kevin, and and I could bore your audience to death, and I’m not gonna do that. I’m just

00:02:11 going to give you a highlight if I could. Uh I was unchurched from young

00:02:16 teenager to early 20s. And after I got married to Nelly Joe, she gently nudged

00:02:22 me to get into church. I was a believer, but there’s a lot of reasons that I could go into while I was not in church.

00:02:27 None of them good. And I got into a local church and I was blown away. Blown

00:02:33 away in a good way because I knew that churches had problems. In fact, one of the reasons I had left a church cuz it

00:02:40 had three splits over four years. And finally, I just left it. But I got into

00:02:45 a church that was not perfectly healthy, but was relatively healthy. And I saw what could happen if a local church is

00:02:52 healthy. You know, think about it, Kevin. From from Acts 2 to Revelation 3,

00:02:57 all of that large swath of the New Testament is either about the local church to the local church in the

00:03:02 context of the local church or to a leader of a local church. So God’s plan

00:03:08 for his mission on earth is the local church. It’s his plan A. And guess what? He doesn’t have a plan B. And so I just

00:03:15 love the local church. Wart’s problems and all. I love the local church. And it

00:03:21 started experientially with me getting back into church as a youngster, 20some

00:03:27 year old after being out of church for a decade.

00:03:32 Wow. That’s awesome. Um, and it’s so necessary. U there’s so many mistakes that churches make and right now we’ve

00:03:38 got this incredible thing going on with um, you know, I I’ve been told told, and you’re the expert here, but I’ve been

00:03:45 told that Gen Z um, which I believe is the anxious generation you’re referring to, Gen Z is actually at least the the

00:03:53 men, the males, the young the young men are going back to church at higher rates than in the past. Is this true?

00:03:59 It is true. And it is not only true is emphatically true. It is something that

00:04:04 I did not s think that I would see in my lifetime to see young people relatively young people going to church. And it is

00:04:11 Gen Z Kevin. But we’re also seeing Gen Alpha, the next generation come as well.

00:04:17 They’re much younger of course. And then a lot of the millennials are coming because they are the parents of

00:04:23 Gen Z and Gen Alpha. So we are seeing a return to church. If you had looked at

00:04:28 my predictions about the state of the church three years ago, I would have gotten all of this wrong because I did

00:04:34 not think that Gen Z would be returning. I did not think Gen Alpha would be. I did not think the millennials would be.

00:04:40 And God has just decided that he is going to move a large swath of people

00:04:45 back to church. And it’s one of the most encouraging times I’ve ever been in. And when I wrote the book, The Anxious

00:04:51 Generation Goes to Church, I was I was not really as aware of the return until

00:04:57 I got to almost to the end of the book and then I had to go back and start weaving some things in about, hey, this

00:05:03 is a great opportunity. It’s not just about all the problems that uh Gen Z has. And by the way, the anxious

00:05:09 generation, you’re right, is mostly Gen Z, but it’s a portion of Gen Alpha as well. is anybody who’s gone through

00:05:15 those formative pre uh pubescent years that uh has been shaped by the

00:05:21 smartphone and social media etc. And so this is an incredible opportunity that

00:05:27 churches have not seen really almost anybody alive today has not seen it in

00:05:32 their lifetime. Wow. That’s incredible. Um so why take

00:05:39 us back to your prediction when you three years ago you were you said my predictions were completely wrong. Um

00:05:45 what was it that you were predicting? Why was it? And then is there what what is the reason why that completely you

00:05:52 know the the script completely changed and all of a sudden um you know we have this incredible return to church that’s

00:05:58 taking place. Well first of all you need to understand I’m not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. So when I when I do

00:06:05 research, I’m depending upon others telling me things, I’m depending upon uh

00:06:10 not only reading other researchers such as Pew and Burge and others, but doing our own original research to make sure

00:06:17 that we are hearing right. So Kevin, I’m a listener and and I’m I’m I’m a data

00:06:22 gatherer. I mean, it’s a really geeky role when it’s all said and done. I think people will probably say if they

00:06:28 even know who I am, he really was a geek and that’s about it. And I geek out on these numbers. I geek out on on all the

00:06:35 data that’s coming in and I’ve been following this and when I made the predictions it it it wasn’t anything

00:06:42 brilliant that I did. I just followed the trend lines. I just followed the trend lines of particularly one that I

00:06:49 was fascinated with was the nuns that was uh highlighted originally by Pew,

00:06:54 but the nun name caught Ryan Burge in his book the nuns. And I was seeing

00:07:00 the nuns who have no particular affiliation n O nees and and that number

00:07:05 was increasing increasing which means as the nuns were increasing the unchurch were I mean the church were decreasing

00:07:12 and I’m following that trend and Ryan Burge great researcher and a good friend

00:07:19 called me up and said guess what the nuns are stopping their growth which is

00:07:24 good news because that means the unaffiliated those who have no particular particular belief whatsoever.

00:07:30 That group of people is no longer growing. And it was at that moment that I realized if this trend continues,

00:07:38 which it has, and it has been going on for probably will look back, and it

00:07:43 probably started in early 2024. Uh some sometimes when you’re looking at trends,

00:07:49 you don’t really know until you look at it in the rearview mirror. So, it probably started in 2024. So, the reason

00:07:55 I made the prediction because it’s just the way the data was pointing and then it just stopped. It was just like

00:08:03 you’re driving a car and you slam on the brakes because you see something in the road and you’re no longer moving in that

00:08:10 direction. And that metaphor is what happened with the nuns. But on the positive side, that means that the

00:08:17 generations, particularly Gen Z, Gen Alpha, and I mentioned the others as well, particularly the millennials, they

00:08:24 are coming back to church. And so I took that data and I said, we’ve got to just

00:08:31 recalibrate so many different things. Now, you ask you you ask an insightful question. Why, you know, why is Gen Z

00:08:39 coming back to church? Ultimately, there’s a theological answer and that’s the Holy Spirit is drawing them back to

00:08:44 church and we cannot explain it decently sociologically. We can theologically.

00:08:50 The best sociological thing that we can say is this. Jen Z found out that the

00:08:56 alternative world of smartphones, uh, social media, the the world where you

00:09:03 had to be perfect and you and you thought everybody else was perfect. That world was tearing them down. And they

00:09:11 started looking for alternatives. And I’m thankful to God that the alternative

00:09:16 many of them have found is returning inperson not digitally but returning

00:09:22 inperson to churches. So I think we can explain it sociologically. I think we can explain

00:09:29 it psychologically but ultimately we explain it with the work of the Holy Spirit. He brought them back and he’s

00:09:35 still bringing them back. And it’s it’s increasing even more. It’s not just that we have a rate of increase. we have an

00:09:42 increasing rate of increase. So, it’s a phenomenal thing taking place.

00:09:49 Yeah. And um you know, it’s interesting because obviously uh with the horrible

00:09:54 tragedy of Charlie Kirk being murdered. Um and we’re seeing this all over social

00:10:00 media. We’re seeing people turn to Christ that, you know, you have people saying, “I haven’t I haven’t picked up a Bible in 20 years.” And now they’re

00:10:07 going back. And so many people are being moved so dramatically. It’s it’s incredible. And that’s part of the

00:10:13 increase, but this is something that was going on before um what happened to Charlie Kirk even took place. And it’s

00:10:20 interesting what you’re saying because you said you said that the they they’re seeing that there’s an emptiness in the

00:10:26 smartphone in you know being on social media. It’s almost but but at the same

00:10:31 time that’s what caused their anxiety. It’s almost like the the phone was the problem but it’s all of a sudden pushed

00:10:38 people to the solution. It’s a really interesting phenomenon. Well, well articulated and the fact that

00:10:45 these young people could articulate that themselves for their lives and act upon

00:10:50 it is an amazing and it’s just it’s just another God thing. And you talk about the Charlie Kirk thing. I I know that no

00:10:57 one would want us to make this the equivalent of Steven the first martyr, but there’s some parallels in there. So,

00:11:03 I want to bring the parallels not to suggest that they are one and the same. So, hear me well. uh before anybody

00:11:10 says, “Okay, he’s he said he’s like Steven the first martyr.” No, there’s similarities, but here’s what happened.

00:11:15 The church was growing in Jerusalem. The church was moving in a positive direction. And then with the martyrdom

00:11:22 of Steven, the church exploded. So what happened was you had a growth

00:11:28 curve in the Jerusalem church. And then with the martyrdom, you not only had a

00:11:33 growth curve, you had an accelerated growth curve. And what happened? Acts 18 is the great commission where we’re to

00:11:40 be witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, and Samaria. The martyrdom of Steven is Acts 8:1 instead of 18 when the persecution

00:11:48 came and it sent them beyond the comfort of their Jerusalem founding home. And so

00:11:54 it was a trigger point. We are seeing that definitely in what’s taking place

00:11:59 with many of our young people today. Yeah, it’s it’s astonishing to me and

00:12:07 it’s so encouraging and so hopeful um at the same time. Um my prayer has been

00:12:13 that the seeds that are planted um fall on good soil and they take root um and

00:12:20 that this isn’t like a flash in the pan. Um what is your what are your thoughts about that? Um that this is a trend

00:12:28 that’s that’s um and I I know you can’t make these kinds of predictions. you you just do the best you can. But um if you

00:12:35 were to forecast out and maybe you’ve already done this, what’s going to happen in the next year, 2 years, 3

00:12:41 years, 5 years, 10 years, um do you you know if barring Christ uh doesn’t return

00:12:47 within that time frame? Uh do you have any thoughts about what’s going to take place uh moving down the road here?

00:12:55 Kevin, I have written 42 books and I don’t have an unpublished thought in my mind. So I have I I have published a

00:13:03 book about what is going to happen. The book is going to be released in 2026 and it’s called the analog church. The

00:13:11 thesis behind it is these young people are connecting relationally. They have

00:13:16 not had these relational connections many in their homes. They certainly hadn’t had them beyond their homes. And

00:13:22 it’s a sticky factor beyond stickiness. And I would project according to

00:13:27 everything that we’re seeing that because of this analog relationship, non-digital relationship that they are

00:13:36 seeing a hungerfed and a thirst satiated and they will stick. I cannot swear, I

00:13:44 cannot know, but I can certainly say that seems to be the trend. And if it’s not, then my you can throw my book away

00:13:50 in 2026. Well, I pray that you’re 100% right. I

00:13:58 mean, um I think obviously that’s what God wants is uh it to stick. And

00:14:04 sometimes having the comparison of what was so horrible, um shakes you out of

00:14:11 your complacency and makes you grab hold of what’s good because you can see the contrast so much deeper than you might

00:14:18 otherwise. And I was actually going to ask you about that. Um, why is it that

00:14:24 the the earlier generations, I don’t know if it’s Gen X or the Boomer generations or or those generations, I

00:14:31 guess my question would be why wasn’t some why wasn’t it something that they recognized? And is it specifically

00:14:37 because they didn’t have the experience of being almost purely online and and

00:14:43 lacking those relationships? So, they had a they had somewhat the the relationships and so they just they didn’t see the the greatness of

00:14:50 connecting Yeah, church you’re you’re right and you’re very much on target

00:14:55 with that with look you you can go back to the builders before 1946 and the boomers 46 to 64 and then you go to Gen

00:15:03 X and then to the millennials and all of those generations they had relational connections

00:15:09 some of them were good some of them were not so good Z because they have been

00:15:15 smartphone attached because they have been influenced by social media so much they have not had those relational

00:15:22 connections. And so when it’s all said and done, the other generations thought

00:15:27 everything was okay. And when you think everything is okay, you don’t seek change. Gen Z knew something was wrong.

00:15:35 Suicide rates are up. Depression is is skyrocketing. Anxiety is skyrocketing.

00:15:42 Uh self harm that may not result in suicide. All of these things were going

00:15:48 in in just an awful direction. And so they knew something was wrong. They

00:15:55 being Gen Z and now now Gen Alpha, my generation, I’m a boomer. Then that that

00:16:00 followed me, uh, Gen X and the millennials, they just did not see that there was the great need. And like the

00:16:07 stoning of Stephen in Acts 8:18, Acts 8:1, at the stoning of Stephen, it was a

00:16:14 wake-up call to remind us that things are not all right, and there’s only one solution, and that solution is God.

00:16:23 Amen. Wow. That’s that’s incredible. What a time we live in. Um it’s just

00:16:28 really really amazing especially with all the things that are going on worldwide um that we’re hearing about

00:16:35 every day in the news uh the relationship between countries and all. I think that makes it even more stark.

00:16:42 Um so you know you’re you’re in a lot of ways ministering to pastors. are helping them assess, you know, the culture and

00:16:49 what’s happening in the world and everything and making better decisions about how they’re going to serve their

00:16:56 uh serve the people that come to their church and that are a part of their church. Um what would you say to pastors

00:17:01 as this is happening? What needs to happen in the churches in order to um

00:17:07 meet the needs of these people? And is the church up for the um is the church

00:17:13 prepared to be able to meet these young people um where they’re at and with what

00:17:19 they need uh with the gospel and the community and so forth. Yes. No, and maybe. So, I’ll I’ll try to

00:17:25 I’ll try to break that up just a little bit. Many are prepared. Uh many are

00:17:31 reaching many churches are in that type of outward focus. Many are not. uh many

00:17:37 might be but might not. So let me let me just break this down a little bit. It’s really simple. If a church wants to

00:17:43 reach Gen Z, we have good data on this. In fact, this data was done by my company, Church Answers. We have good

00:17:50 data on this. If a Gen Z is invited to church and asked to come to a meal or

00:17:57 coffee after church, the acceptance rate is over 80%. Now, that’s it. And it

00:18:03 doesn’t matter if you’re a church of 20 or a church of 2,000 or 20,000.

00:18:08 They are so hungry for relationships. They’re accepting these invitations like never before. But Kevin, we know this.

00:18:15 Some churches are not intentional that way. They think that they can have a certain program or event and that

00:18:21 satisfies all the needs instead of a personal touch. Hey, would you come with me to church? I cannot tell you. I mean,

00:18:27 I’m old and I cannot tell you how many young people I have invited to church and they have come because my wife and I

00:18:33 have taken them out to lunch afterwards. We’ve invited them. They’ve come and it’s it’s absolutely amazing. There is

00:18:40 there’s there’s nothing that is so so secret to this that any church can do

00:18:47 it. Any church, but you have to do it. Now, when you come to church,

00:18:52 they can’t be in their holy huddles. They cannot, you know, they they they cannot do the usual stuff. They have to

00:18:57 reach out to these young people. They have to be prepared for things maybe not the way they used to be because they’re

00:19:03 going to bring change. But I tell you, if a church really wants to reach Gen Z,

00:19:09 their parents, the millennials, the younger kids, Gen Alpha, they can. God’s

00:19:15 working. Do you really want to get on in on it? That’s the question.

00:19:21 Amen. Um, and so really the pastors needs to be emphasizing

00:19:26 uh to their congregation more than ever before, hey um be looking for these young people when you see them have the

00:19:34 courage to to give them an invitation to church and say hey we’d love to have you. Uh it’s as simple as that. Would

00:19:39 you say it is as simple as that. That’s why I carry with me a card that our church provides address worship times, but I

00:19:47 then put on there, okay, uh, we’re we’re we’re we’re going to this restaurant afterwards and and we’ll go together or

00:19:54 we’re going to go grab a c cup of coffee and I write that on there and the the the receptivity is off the charts.

00:20:03 That’s wonderful because, you know, a lot of the fear of when the the word evangelism comes up, a lot of people get

00:20:10 real scared and they think, “Oh boy, I I’m just not good at this. What if they ask me a question I can’t answer? Um,

00:20:16 you know, what if they reject me?” And yet, here we are in a time where that’s just not happening. Rejection is not

00:20:22 happening. Well, and listen to this piece of data. Sometimes I get so many numbers I bore

00:20:27 myself. But this is a this is a old piece of data. Even before we started seeing this receptivity many years ago,

00:20:35 I wrote a book called uh the unchurched next door and it was how receptive are

00:20:40 the those who are not in church to the gospel and to an invitation to church. Now listen to this. This was this book’s

00:20:46 probably 15 or 20 years old. 5% of all the people that we surveyed were

00:20:53 antagonistic. Only 5%. 95% were either highly receptive,

00:21:00 somewhat receptive or mildly neutral. The rest the rest of them were totally

00:21:05 and that was 15, 20 years ago before this new awakening of the genzers coming

00:21:10 in. So it’s never been that difficult. Yeah. The harvest is plentiful but the

00:21:16 workers are few. Um, so what is it that the church as these kids are coming in,

00:21:22 you know, what is it that they need to be aware of that, um, could potentially drive kids away, drive these young

00:21:28 people away? Um, what because again, you know, I’ve I’ve been looking all over social media, uh, listening to these

00:21:34 stories of these young people and and others who have said, you know, I just went out and bought my first Bible. I’m

00:21:40 going to church to church for the first time this Sunday and I’m just thinking to myself, “Oh Lord, please I pray God

00:21:47 that they go to a good church where, you know, somebody teaches them truth and

00:21:52 loves them um the way Christ does.” What what does the church need to be aware of and be careful about regarding whether

00:21:59 or not um this person is going to continue to come to church and grow and

00:22:04 walk with the Lord? Well, one of my one of my heroes of movies, not of the

00:22:09 faith, heroes of movies, Farsump. I just I I love him. He says, “That’s what mama

00:22:14 says.” He was originally from Alabama, where I’m originally from. And and I just love that whole movie. And uh one

00:22:21 of my favorite lines in Forest Gump is stupid is is stupid does. Uh when when these people come to church, don’t do

00:22:27 stupid. Just be just be normal. Be nice to them. You don’t have you don’t have

00:22:32 to have the best worship service. You don’t have to have outstanding programs. They are looking for connection. Just be

00:22:39 nice and don’t do stupid. Um may maybe I shouldn’t maybe I shouldn’t even get on

00:22:44 this, but I I’m going down that. I’m not going to blame you for this, Kevin, but but

00:22:50 we we we did we did a survey a long well six or seven years ago, and I think it’s still still pretty accurate, where we

00:22:58 ask both people in the church and outside the church, would they like to be recognized in a worship service in

00:23:04 any way if they came to church? And the answer was an overwhelming no. I mean, it was like 97%. So, one of the things

00:23:10 that you really don’t want to do is have everybody stand up who’s a guest and everybody sit down that’s not and then

00:23:16 stand and greet everybody. No, just be normal. Normal normal people do don’t do

00:23:23 those things. Just just be normal. Just talk to them. Just be relational. And so, the church doesn’t have to have a

00:23:28 great strategy. They just really need to be human and they need to be Christlike.

00:23:33 Simple as that. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. I actually had that happen one time when I went to a church

00:23:39 where they made all the new people stand up. It was hilarious. But I got a kick out of it. But they said, “Everybody

00:23:44 give them a hug.” And I was like, “Whoa.” But uh but uh anyway, so

00:23:50 hey Kevin, if I if I know a standing great time is coming, I go to the

00:23:56 restroom. Yeah. And and and and I’ll be back after it is it is over. I’m an introvert and one of

00:24:02 the worst things I can have is have strangers hugging me that wouldn’t normally hug me anywhere else. They don’t be normal. You don’t go around

00:24:09 hugging people you don’t know. Anyway, I know, right? That that that I shouldn’t have gone down that path, but you asked be normal.

00:24:17 Um so, you know, in your book, um the anxious generation goes to church, you also talk about

00:24:24 the cult potentially asking for help. Um, which is interesting because I have

00:24:29 some friends that work at public schools and they say a lot of people are completely lost as to how to how to help the kids. Um, and they just really don’t

00:24:36 know. They don’t know what the solution is. I had one of my friends, he’s a Christian, he said, you know, it’s awful because they need Jesus, but that’s the

00:24:42 one thing we’re not allowed to say in, you know, my particular public school. And um, so how how does the church be

00:24:50 salt and light in a situation where these young people are looking desperately for help? uh but the culture

00:24:56 as a whole is really looking for help. Well, if you can’t talk about Jesus, you

00:25:02 can act like Jesus. And that that human testimony is absolutely powerful. And

00:25:09 anytime we see someone who is not a believer and maybe they’re not ready to hear something or maybe we’re in a

00:25:15 culture where we’re not allowed to speak like in a public school situation, we can be Jesus to them. Um well some of my

00:25:22 most fun times as a Christian was when I was a co-vocational pastor that is I I I

00:25:29 was a pastor in a church but I also held a job in the marketplace and I love the

00:25:34 fact that people would come up to me and ask me questions and and uh I would have they say you know you’re a pastor but

00:25:40 you act normal. I said no I really don’t. Nobody’s ever accused me of being normal but I I I I don’t weird I didn’t

00:25:47 weird them out. It’s you just have to be like Jesus. And one one of the most

00:25:52 powerful prayers a Christian can pray. It’s something like this. Not formulaic, but something like this. Lord, allow me

00:26:00 this day to speak or touch someone with the gospel of Christ in a way that will

00:26:05 make a difference in their life. I’m I cannot say that that prayer has gone answered to my knowledge 100% of

00:26:12 the time. But I’ll tell you what, I can’t remember when it didn’t when it wasn’t answered.

00:26:18 Amen. Amen. Yeah. It’s as simple as just saying some, you know, uh just saying to

00:26:23 somebody, um, hey, would it be okay if I just prayed for you? I, you know, I can tell you’re going through a hard time.

00:26:28 And, uh, that’s amazing. I’ve seen God work so many times just through that very simple offer. Um, you know, um,

00:26:35 you’re real big on stats. I love stats, too. I love numbers and looking at those sorts of things. Um, so give us a couple

00:26:43 stats um maybe off the top of your head that you know um that are really positive meaning you’ve already done

00:26:50 this but that are really positive but are there any stats we need to be concerned about? Is there anything that

00:26:56 we need to be um on that you would say hey pastor be aware that this is a stat that’s not real positive?

00:27:02 Absolutely. 40 30 40 years ago, it took 20 church

00:27:09 members a year to reach one person for Christ. So if you were in a church in

00:27:15 1970, let’s say 1980, and and it was a church of 20,

00:27:22 there would be on the average one person who’d become a Christian in that church. Today, that number is 91.

00:27:31 It takes 91 members a year to reach one person for Christ when in the 1980s it

00:27:38 only took 20. And I say only took I mean you know from a from a realistic what

00:27:44 God can do point of view we should be doubling our churches every year one reaching one but 20 reaching one was the

00:27:52 average in the 80s. Now it’s 91. So, we know that of the nearly 400,000

00:27:59 churches in America, many of them do not see the great commission as a great

00:28:05 priority. And so, they are not doing it. You you you mentioned I don’t know if

00:28:10 you’re quoting from Matthew 9 or Luke 10, but yeah, the harvest is ready. The harvest is ripe. And what does Jesus

00:28:17 say? He he he doesn’t say pray for that we can find some prospects. He says no,

00:28:23 pray for workers to go into the field. That’s the point. We the the the harvest

00:28:29 is there waiting on us. It’s been there since since Jesus ascended to heaven and is there now. We simply have to go into

00:28:37 the harvest fields and his power. Again, it’s not that much. It’s not that

00:28:42 difficult to understand. It is it’s an act of obedience to the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives.

00:28:48 And when you say that, you know, p practically speaking, if you have a pastor, right, who’s listening and and

00:28:54 he hears what you’re saying, um what does that look like on a real practical

00:28:59 level level? Does that mean, um hosting events and, you know, inviting people to

00:29:05 them? Does that mean one-on-one? Does that mean street evangelism? Does that mean going to college campuses like uh

00:29:11 Charlie Kirk was doing? And now we’re seeing more people are are doing that. Um what is or is that just all of the

00:29:18 above? What are your thoughts on that? Certainly anything that can begin a gospel conversation or show the gospel

00:29:25 in action is is a work of God. However, I want to say this.

00:29:31 Churches are churches for a reason. They God put them here as his mission on

00:29:38 earth to reach people and to bring them into his local church. There’s nothing

00:29:44 wrong with street evangelism. Great, many people one to Christ. There’s nothing wrong with sending a team

00:29:49 overseas and seeing many people accept Christ. But the primary purpose of the

00:29:54 local church was what you will be my witness is where do you start in

00:29:59 Jerusalem. And so the first thing that I would say is pastor or church does your

00:30:06 evangelism truly try to reach people with the gospel and bring them into the

00:30:13 body of Christ where the body of Christ will begin the act of disciplehip. So

00:30:18 you have to ask that question Kevin is that really taking place? One of the things that we do at Church Answers

00:30:24 without getting into promo type of things is we help pastors and churches

00:30:31 understand some things that they can be doing in order to have that type of

00:30:36 evangelism that not only gets the gospel out there, but brings them into the body of Christ. We were missing so much when

00:30:44 we do evangelism without connecting it to the local congregation. That’s what we’re here for. And that’s the kind of

00:30:51 evangelism that is going to result in communities change, lives changed, and

00:30:56 it’s going to be sustained because it’s connected in a first Corinthians 12 way that then becomes, of course, the love

00:31:02 chapter of 1 Corinthians 13. And it’s connected in a way that will be sustained in disciplehip for years to

00:31:10 come. That’s awesome. Yeah. And disciplehip is so critical. Like you’re saying, you got

00:31:15 to connect to the local church. So um you know the the title of the book is the anxious generation goes to church

00:31:23 and uh you know there are there are characteristics of each generation that

00:31:29 uh are very descriptive of that particular generation and what what they were experiencing through the culture

00:31:35 and and these sorts of things. And so when it comes to anxiety and because

00:31:42 it’s such a huge issue, uh kids, I’m a teacher and I teach at a Christian school and we have numerous kids that

00:31:49 have um details about how to help them learn better and anxiety is constantly

00:31:56 listed as dealing with anxiety, dealing with anxiety. I have students that say,

00:32:01 “I’m I’m trying to get through my anxiety or I’m taking off school because of anxiety.” And uh what is the solution

00:32:07 to this epidemic? Um is it is it banning cell phones? What what uh is how do we

00:32:14 help these this generation? Um and is this something that’s going to move

00:32:20 forward with generation alpha and then future generation? Are they going to continue to have these high levels of

00:32:26 anxiety because of the digital uh environment that we work in or that we live in?

00:32:33 Well, I don’t want to be a prophet and and and my prophecy gets wrong and you have the right to stone me to death. So,

00:32:39 I will I will be very careful what what I’m going to say. I think that the

00:32:45 anxiety of which you speak is going to lessen. It is going to become better because one

00:32:53 of the causitive factors is known. So, it’s it’s only one Kevin. I mean, the

00:32:59 smartphone can’t be blamed for everything in the world. I mean and even social media can’t be blamed for everything in the world but those two

00:33:06 things were trip wires and when when you look at the data of what has happened to

00:33:12 anxiety what has happened with depression and suicide and self harm when you look at the data it corresponds

00:33:19 perfectly with that culmination of the internet the smartphone social media and

00:33:25 then on top of that the polarization of the world that we’re in now which is which is just exa exacerbating it. So

00:33:33 yes, symptomatically that will help smartphone fast, social media fast, as

00:33:39 much as we can do that. But anxiety existed before the smartphone and it’s

00:33:45 going to exist even if we took it all away. And though to give a Bible verse

00:33:51 for somebody that’s deeply hurting may seem a bit tright, but you know what what what does what’s the word say about

00:33:58 this? be anxious about nothing, but in prayer with supplication, present your

00:34:04 request to God, and you will know the peace that passes all understanding.

00:34:09 That is as clear as it can be in scripture. If we can get our people praying, though, and our young people

00:34:15 praying, if we can get them in the word, then it’s the work of God that will

00:34:20 overcome all of this anxiety much more than even a smartphone abstinence will.

00:34:29 Amen. Yeah. So, so you said you quoted that uh beautiful scripture which is so

00:34:35 everybody needs to memorize it. But uh be anxious for nothing. Um what is it

00:34:41 about the cell phone that’s creating this massive amounts of anxiety and causing people to be anxious for

00:34:47 something? Um what is where is that coming from? Why does the why is it

00:34:53 specifically the smartphone and social media that generates that kind of anxiety? two things, two things very

00:34:59 clearly. One of the things is uh your self-image because you are now put

00:35:06 against all of these other perfectly coughed people with great lives that

00:35:11 don’t exist, of course, but you think they do. And the anxiety comes because you’re not measuring up. Look at all the

00:35:18 people that are succeeding. Look at the beautiful and handsome people. Look at the wealth that is there. And now look

00:35:24 at me. Social media has created that lie. So that that’s that’s one of the

00:35:30 reasons just just that. Another reason is bullying. Bullying was pervasive

00:35:35 before there was ever a smartphone, but now bullying on social media is pervasive among young people and highly

00:35:42 cruel. So that has increased. It’s not something new, but it certainly has been

00:35:47 exacerbated. And then the third factor is polarization. When you go on any of the social media channels, most of them

00:35:54 are going to feed you what they think you want. And you’re you’re going to be put into a world that doesn’t really

00:36:01 exist politically, theologically, socially because it’s going to match your world so that the clicks will keep

00:36:07 on coming. And that’s not a real world either. So you have people who are bullied. You have you have people who

00:36:14 have this image that they think they have to live up to. And then you have this whole idea of polarization and the

00:36:22 division that has taken place. Boy, if that doesn’t create anxiety, I don’t know what will.

00:36:28 Amen. Yeah. Wow. That’s powerful. Well, um, for those of you, uh, tuning in here

00:36:34 maybe a little late, uh, my guest is Tom Rener, and he has incredible amounts of experience in really assessing

00:36:42 and really analyzing what is it that’s affecting a particular generation. And,

00:36:49 um, we all know these things are clear and I think, uh, Tom, you really have have your finger on the pulse here. And,

00:36:55 uh, his book is The Anxious Generation Goes to Church. If you’re in ministry, if you’re a pastor, if you’re um serving

00:37:02 uh young people, maybe in youth ministry, um this is well worth your uh time and effort to really understand

00:37:09 what’s going on. And because once you understand the problem, you can you can provide a solution so much better and

00:37:14 really apply God’s word and allow the Holy Spirit to work through you. So, um I really encourage you to pick up a copy

00:37:21 of that book. And uh Tom, do you have other resources um available that that

00:37:26 will help uh pastors and youth pastors as they’re trying their best to do ministry? Yeah, we we have the largest online

00:37:33 ministry for vocational pastors and ministers. It’s very simple. churchansers.com

00:37:39 and there’s a lot there. I’m not going to start promoting different parts of it. Go there. There’s a lot to see.

00:37:44 Fantastic. Well, we’ll put that on the uh podcast. We’ll put that in the description. Churchansers.com.

00:37:50 And uh Tom, I really want to appreciate uh or just say thank you for your time and just your insight and your wisdom over the years. So, I appreciate it.

00:37:57 Thanks, Kevin. Great to be with you. Okay. I hope you have a fantastic night. And for those of you listening, we’ll be

00:38:02 back again next week. We’ve got some other uh guests set up here that are just really phenomenal. Just to

00:38:07 encourage you and help you in your walk with the Lord and help you better uh be a light to your community and your

00:38:12 neighbors and uh just to love Jesus better. So, God bless you. We’ll see you next time. Have a good night. When you

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