[00:00:00] thanks for being here if you’re listening we’re broadcasting on K praise 1210 a.m. down here in Southern

[00:00:05] California and my name is Kevin Conover I’m your host and you are listening to educate forlife radio my website’s

[00:00:11] educate forlife.org and we interview people from all over the world who have been influenced by the Bible in Jesus

[00:00:18] Christ and are then using what God has given them to be a blessing to the people around

[00:00:24] them we have a great show today and I’m very excited about it as you probably

[00:00:29] know um this is quote gay pride month and um everywhere you go there are the rainbow

[00:00:36] flags and these different things and a lot of times it feels like um it’s not just a month thing but there are year

[00:00:43] there are days all throughout the year there are uh weeks there’s uh it’s it’s everywhere and uh it’s astonishing how

[00:00:51] much um people’s uh sexual identification has defined um groups and

[00:00:59] is influencing culture my guest today is Dr Jennifer robach Morris she’s the founder of the Ruth Institute it’s an

[00:01:05] Interfaith International International Coalition to defend the family and build a civilization of love she was the

[00:01:10] spokeswoman if this was a while back for California’s winning Proposition 8 we were defining marriage as the union of a

[00:01:16] man and a woman she has co-authored six books and spoken all over the globe um

[00:01:22] so she’s she has a long history of making a big impact in the culture she

[00:01:28] earned a PhD at the University of Rochester and taught economics at Yale and George Mason universities for 15

[00:01:33] years and she was named one of the Catholic stars of 2013 her husband and her are parents of an adopted child a

[00:01:40] birth child a Godfather and were foster parents for San Diego County to eight foster children in 2015 she relocated to

[00:01:49] Louisiana and she’s continuing to do work with the Ruth Institute I want to give you this is I want to give you the

[00:01:55] list of books that she’s written because this these are all wonderful resources listen to these titles they’re so

[00:02:01] relevant and so necessary love and economics It Takes a Family to raise a village smart sex finding Lifelong Love

[00:02:09] in a hookup World 101 tips for a happier marriage the sexual Revolution and its

[00:02:14] victims 101 tips for marrying the right person and the sexual State how Elite

[00:02:20] ideologies are destroying lives and why the church was right all along Dr Morris

[00:02:25] thanks so much for being with us today well thanks for having me I’m kind of excited that guys have a San Diego

[00:02:31] connection because we lived in San Diego for 13 years and as you mentioned that’s where we were foster parents for a few

[00:02:37] years um which was there was a season in our life and our children’s life where

[00:02:42] that made a lot of sense for us and so we have a lot of happy memories um of San Diego and in fact the Ruth Institute

[00:02:48] was founded on my dining room table in Vista so that’s um that that was 2008

[00:02:56] it’s been a while but um San Diego is very important and very special to me yeah yeah and the weather’s great too

[00:03:02] and it’s a nice place to live uh but the politics isn’t always isn’t always uh on

[00:03:08] on par in California right yes I now live in the most pro-life state in

[00:03:13] America really Louisiana is amazing that’s wonderful when I when I lived in California I I don’t think any candidate

[00:03:20] I voted for ever won you know they looked like they were going to win and then at the end a whole

[00:03:26] pile of money would Pile in and you know either attack them or promote their opponent or what have you you know and

[00:03:31] and um and and we had the whole experience of winning prop eight and then losing it in the courts um so that

[00:03:38] was a that was a real eye openening set of experiences and and really I would say for me prop eight was a was a

[00:03:44] formative experience so I believe it I know when I remember when all that was happening and

[00:03:50] the different pastors that what they were dealing with and it was just unreal um there were a lot of pastors that were

[00:03:56] fighting hard for that in San Diego and um doing their best um I was attending

[00:04:01] church at Skyline with Dr Jim garlo you probably are familiar with with yeah Pastor garlo a fantastic you that’s a

[00:04:08] lifelong friendship that we formed right around right around prop eight you know and he was he was the he was the

[00:04:14] Evangelical Pastor who made it his job to herd cats getting a bunch of

[00:04:19] evangelicals to do the same thing at the same time is like hting cats you know but Jim you know he made it happen and

[00:04:26] um I watched these friendships develop these friendships are still active you know we be I became very close with the

[00:04:33] latterday Saints um those relationships are still solid um our auxiliary Bishop

[00:04:39] there in San Diego Bishop Corleone is now the Archbishop of San of San Francisco um and you know he continues

[00:04:46] to be a a bright star and their friendship the friendship between you know Jim garlo and and cord Leon is is

[00:04:53] still an active thing and you know there just a lot of very very beautiful thing the body of Christ really came together

[00:04:58] around that it did it did unfortunately the bad guys all uh organized around it on the other side you know and seeing

[00:05:06] how that all went down that was a very um that was transformative in its own

[00:05:11] way in a negative way you know to see that we that was for me when I first

[00:05:16] realized that we’re not really dealing with what I thought our Republic was

[00:05:22] supposed to be about in the rule of law and all of those things you know some of the things that went down that anyone

[00:05:28] could see if they if they but then things that went on behind the scenes and stuff like that it was like oh man

[00:05:34] this is this is not a level this is not a Level Playing Field anymore you

[00:05:40] know yes and and uh the devil doesn’t want to play fair he’s not into having an honest conversation about what’s best

[00:05:47] for everybody and that’s kind of what I wanted to talk about today is is that um you know during gay pride month here

[00:05:54] your um organization is promoting xgay visibility day tell us about that how did that come to be and why did you

[00:06:01] decide that this was something that you wanted to promote well well you know in your teup you mentioned all the

[00:06:07] different days of visibility for this and visibility for that and honoring this and that and you know I’ve seen

[00:06:15] people go through and look at just all the days that are out there that have some kind of celebration of LGBT issues

[00:06:21] it’s you know it’s everywhere um and I think the thing that put me over the edge was when um the Biden

[00:06:30] Administration declared Easter Sunday to be the transgender day of visibility um

[00:06:36] well it’s always been on the 31st of March so whatever and I’m like oh you

[00:06:41] know ple come on don’t T yeah that was that was astonishing I mean just insult

[00:06:46] my intelligence with something like that you know come on yeah so I I I just felt

[00:06:51] so full of mischief at that point you know I’m like okay you know what we’re going to declare from here on out the

[00:06:57] first Sunday in June because you know I have the same authority to declare something a day as anybody else you know

[00:07:03] you just make this stuff up right so I’m just making it up as of now the first

[00:07:08] Sunday in June is xgay visibility day um

[00:07:13] and it just happens to be in pride month you know that’s just that’s just incidental it was

[00:07:20] [Laughter] accidental but the other thing that

[00:07:25] prompted me to do this um Kevin is that I have had many conversations with

[00:07:31] people who have journeyed away from the uh LGBT lifestyle I’m sure you have as well and that the LGBT identity does a

[00:07:38] lot of things in a lot of people’s lives and I you know and people have a lot of different stories about how they

[00:07:43] journeyed away from it and oftentimes um some kind of counseling or therapy was part of it um almost always there’s some

[00:07:51] kind of profound religious experience that’s part of it right um and so you know i’ I’ve been aware of that but but

[00:07:58] I have a colleague here at the Ruth Institute who’s a sociologist Father Paul Sullins um if you followed our our

[00:08:04] work you may have seen his name from time to time because he’s he’s a world-class sociologist he used to teach

[00:08:11] at um Catholic University of America he is in fact a Catholic priest but he’s also got a PhD in sociology and stuff

[00:08:19] and he’s been very active in the worldwide debate over so-called conversion therapy um you probably know

[00:08:25] that there is a movement of foot to ban anything that seeks to change or lessen

[00:08:32] feelings of same- seex Attraction okay yeah that’s the law in California I’m pretty sure um yes I know it is with

[00:08:39] minors uh do you know if that’s also the case you can’t you can’t because I know there was lawsuits going on where um one

[00:08:45] of our pastors was trying to fight this and uh that California was saying you can’t even get if if you if you have

[00:08:52] homosexual attractions and you don’t want them you can’t go to a licensed therapist and ask them for help with

[00:08:59] that they they literally could lose their license if they try to help you is that is that the law in California I

[00:09:04] can’t remember I don’t want to say yes or no because I don’t follow every single state but I think that’s true I think

[00:09:11] what you said is true I do know that in Australia in the state of Victoria in Australia it is literally illegal to

[00:09:17] pray for someone you know to say to to pray that these feelings be lessened to

[00:09:22] pray for healing that’s considered um um harmful Prima fasia harmful conversion

[00:09:31] therapy conversion attempts so father suin has been involved and the reason I’m bringing this up father sence has

[00:09:37] been involved in the research on this subject going looking at survey research so not looking at you know there’s all

[00:09:44] sorts of ways to to ask questions about this there’s many questions that need to be asked um so we’re not looking at it

[00:09:51] from the strictly therapeutic stpoint you know in other words we’re not asking what treatment modalities work and that

[00:09:57] kind of thing because people should be asking those questions right but yeah but what what he’s looking at is the

[00:10:02] sociological data if you ask people did you you’re a member of the LGBT um

[00:10:08] Community you you self-identify is LGBT because that’s what you know in a survey

[00:10:13] you know in a survey you ask people what’s your sexual orientation and they tell you something you know so the

[00:10:18] people who self-identify as LGBT or lgmb actually for these studies if you ask

[00:10:24] them did you ever uh go to therapy designed to try to change your sex sexual orientation you know you ask

[00:10:31] those questions and there are several different data sets out there you know that that deal with that question and

[00:10:37] then what the bad guys want to say with the Williams Institute and the various prog gay organizations they want to say

[00:10:43] is just going for that therapy just saying yes to that question increases

[00:10:48] your likelihood of suicide so father Sullins looked at this data and he’s going wait a second um this one data set

[00:10:55] that they’ve got um tell allows you to know when you went for therapy um how

[00:11:02] old you were you know and and also when were these suicide attempts okay and so

[00:11:07] when he looked at cause and effect what he found out is that the the claim it’s true that the lifetime rate of suicides

[00:11:16] is greater for people who have been to therapy but that begs the question were

[00:11:21] the people who were upset in the first place the people most likely to seek therapy and then what happened after the

[00:11:28] therapy you would you really want to know you know because there are people who are really and this we see this in

[00:11:34] SE in several different of his data sets we’ve seen this the people who choose to go for therapy Kevin they are in

[00:11:40] noticeably rougher shape than other people even within the LGBT community right um that’s why they went to therapy

[00:11:47] you know they were suicidal they were having a hard time you know and that’s just basic correlation is not

[00:11:53] causation duh and and a thing that happens after the event cannot cause the the event you

[00:11:59] know and father suin had to go through and he you know he he took out the part you know he said okay let’s hold let’s

[00:12:06] take account of when the therapy took place and then ask the question does this make you suicidal and he’s like no

[00:12:14] it doesn’t it doesn’t make you suicidal you know the opposite in fact the opposite is true that holding account of

[00:12:19] pre-therapy distress you know that’s the way kind of the technical way to put it right if you take a pretherapy distress

[00:12:27] um you find that therapy as an intervening variable actually reduces your risk of suicide meaning that it

[00:12:34] helped right and these are people who still identify themselves as LGBT so the

[00:12:40] therapy didn’t work in the sense of converting them from their sexual

[00:12:45] orientation because if they had they wouldn’t even be in the sample you wouldn’t even be asking them these questions which is another big problem

[00:12:51] with the data if you think about it yeah right right but but anyway just put that

[00:12:56] aside for a moment right um the people for whom it did it didn’t work in the

[00:13:01] sense of converting them but they felt better they felt better you know and it shows up in the suicidality and stuff

[00:13:08] like that you know so father son has been doing this type of work and based on that I’m like you know we really need

[00:13:15] to promote this because this is these laws that are being promoted they they are very Draconian laws the campaign to

[00:13:23] promote them is doing enormous damage by smearing something that doesn’t deserve

[00:13:28] to be smeared you know by by blurring all kinds of distinctions you know when people use

[00:13:35] this term conversion therapy they could be talking about some preacher out in the woods thumping Bibles over people’s

[00:13:41] heads or they could be talking about a licensed counselor right but they they

[00:13:46] choose not to make any such to differentiate yeah that’s right they’re trying to create the impression that

[00:13:53] everybody who does any kind of work of this sort is the backwards preacher

[00:13:58] who’s barely Oprah Winfrey put out that uh that

[00:14:03] documentary a long time ago called pray the gay away in which uh essentially what she’s trying to do is debunk um any

[00:14:11] effort to uh that a person has who wants to change and I thought that was really

[00:14:17] interesting I I mean I watched this whole documentary and uh there was a group uh called Exodus that was disbanded because they felt like Hey

[00:14:23] we’re not achieving the goals that we’re trying to achieve and and uh but what was interesting I not too long ago I

[00:14:30] read some portions of Dr Neil Whitehead’s book called my genes made me do it and um as far as I know it’s the

[00:14:37] most comprehensive um book ever written on this particular subject um but in it

[00:14:43] he says there are actually now more former homosexuals than there are homosexuals themselves and I was every

[00:14:50] time I share this with my students they’re like no way that’s not possible and you know our culture has has this

[00:14:57] idea that there’s a person actually can’t change their sexual orientation um what would you say to

[00:15:03] somebody who says that a person can’t actually change their sexual orientation

[00:15:09] okay I I just wrote down your book Neil Whitehead my jeans made me do it because I’m not familiar with that and I got

[00:15:15] you’re gonna love that it is I gotta find that what I would say expensive the place I was going with this comment is

[00:15:22] Father Solon did some other research and looking in there’s a whole body of work okay the first thing I would say to

[00:15:28] answer your question corly people can change it happens every day it has to be

[00:15:34] happening every day Neil Whitehead is correct that result that he said father suin find the same thing and here’s

[00:15:40] here’s the data father suin is looking at okay there a survey out there that it that says um that asks people how do you

[00:15:49] identify yourself and what are you doing so they’ll do you identify as LGBT uh

[00:15:56] have you had sex with a person of the same sex within the last 12 months or the last five years or you different

[00:16:01] questions like that about behavior um what do you fantasize about okay so that

[00:16:07] that’s kind of the G General set of questions self-identification behavior and um and

[00:16:14] fantasy or you know arousal patterns you know something to to get at that well it turns out Ken there’s a whole body of

[00:16:21] work within mainstream sociology um on what they call in

[00:16:26] congruence identity Behavior in congruence meaning people who say I’m

[00:16:33] heterosexual and I’ve had sex with the same seex partner in the last year okay

[00:16:38] or I’m heterosexual and I have fantasies about same-sex Partners okay so there’s

[00:16:44] some incongruence in between how you define yourself and what you’re doing so what

[00:16:50] father Solin did is he he’s got this data set that looks at that and then he looks at it five years later okay and so

[00:16:57] that’s where you can ask the question have some people changed their pattern any part of their pattern and what you

[00:17:03] find is people who identify as heterosexual but they’re doing these

[00:17:09] other things you know that five years later fewer of them they’re they’re now

[00:17:14] identifying as fully heterosexual without any of the question marks you know um yeah yeah and so you’re seeing

[00:17:22] and this is where his result the statement that you made before the people who have moved away from the LGBT

[00:17:29] identity over that 5-year period are more numerous than the people who currently identify as LGBT yeah and

[00:17:38] that’s it’s more true for women than for men and by the way everyone who works in

[00:17:43] this area knows that to be true that women’s sexual orientation is different than men’s it’s more fluid it’s more um

[00:17:52] relational it’s more focused on the heart whereas men men’s sexual orientation tends to be

[00:17:58] more physical and more object oriented and stuff like that so there’s important differences by you know by the sex of

[00:18:04] the body yeah and so you know in some surveys what you’ll see is that there

[00:18:10] are so many more women who change uh that they sort of drowned out the guys

[00:18:16] who aren’t changing very much you know so you’re always going to find more flexibility amongst the women than I

[00:18:21] think this is so interesting because you’re always gonna find that it it’s because Dr Neil Whitehead says the same

[00:18:27] thing he actually says that with without any intervention no counseling at all

[00:18:32] people actually drift the majority of those who had homosexual orientation

[00:18:38] younger in life they actually drift towards heterosexuality just naturally

[00:18:43] um and that is not known um out and about in the culture at all and yet it’s

[00:18:48] in the research it is extremely demonstrable um and yet it’s getting no

[00:18:55] airtime out there and so thus the reason uh you know that part of what you’re doing here xgay visibility day um do you

[00:19:03] have is this something that you have plans to to grow and to continue to

[00:19:09] promote how is this gonna be demonstrated depends on how people take it this year you know I mean so far it’s

[00:19:15] been pretty pretty good response you know I’m getting a lot of interviews about it and things um people are

[00:19:21] writing to us with their stories which I would invite people to do you know um because one of the things that you that

[00:19:27] you learn is people who have had this journey a lot of times they’ve put it in the rearview mirror they don’t want to

[00:19:33] talk about it you know for a whole bunch of reasons they don’t want to talk about it um and so if people want to share

[00:19:39] their stories with us anonymously that would be helpful you know I mean I I want people to consider whether you

[00:19:45] might be a blessing to someone you know if you were willing to talk about it um

[00:19:50] so so yes that’s part of what we have in mind the other thing though that happened that surprised me it shouldn’t

[00:19:55] have surprised me but it did um we have some really good videos in my humble

[00:20:00] opinion we have some very good videos over on our YouTube channel on this topic and we were swarmed with gay

[00:20:07] activists with people who are 100% Allin that I was born this way no one can

[00:20:12] change uh these people who say they’ve changed they’re lying you need to do these special tests to prove whether

[00:20:19] they really get erections when you know when they’s shown different kinds of pornography and stuff like that you know

[00:20:27] wildly so it was it it’s pretty crazy actually you know I’ve got a three minute video over there that has like

[00:20:33] 200 comments and they’re all you know yeah a little bit out there a lot of

[00:20:38] these comments and so it’s a little bit demoralizing to have to deal with these

[00:20:43] people who are not absolutely not not rational but I do think it’s instructive for the average person to go and look at

[00:20:50] it and see you know see how these people conduct themselves they are incapable

[00:20:56] they are literally incapable of seeing that another person’s experience could be different than their own and that all

[00:21:03] by itself is I think a big problem that’s a big social problem you know I mean I just to change the subject but to

[00:21:11] give an example that I think is dramatic and will impact people I had an abortion

[00:21:16] in my 20s I regretted it almost immediately okay and could not find

[00:21:22] counseling for it because I was not a I was I had left the church by that time that was during my period of being a

[00:21:27] laps Catholic and I I any counselor I went to where I said you know I’m having night terrors

[00:21:34] um I’m depressed uh do you think it’s related to my abortion they’re all couldn’t possibly be related to your

[00:21:40] abortion you know couldn’t possibly be you know and the only time I got somebody to to acknowledge that it was

[00:21:48] even possible was when I went back to the church after a 12E lapse confess to the priest and he’s all wow you know do

[00:21:56] you think God can forgive you do you think God will forgive you and I’m like you know I mean I was a complete

[00:22:03] wreck right but but but the point is that the whole secular therapeutic profession is

[00:22:09] unable to see that some people have this reaction and and it’s

[00:22:15] been in the literature Kevin I’m telling you it’s been in the literature since the 1990s that at least 10% of women

[00:22:21] regret their abortions at least 10% and people are still yelling at Priscilla

[00:22:27] Coleman because she says some people have mental health issues after abortion well why can’t you accept that at least

[00:22:33] 10% I’m not saying everybody but can’t you can’t you have the slightest empathy

[00:22:39] or Sympathy for the people who are in that situation and the answer is no they

[00:22:45] and the same with the gays you know they can’t you know we I’m not sitting here saying every single person who’s gay is

[00:22:51] capable of changing you know I’m not you I’m not talking like that I don’t talk like that but they’re talking like that

[00:22:58] you know well you know it’s crazy because Christ talks about this you know the message of

[00:23:03] the Cross uh is foolishness and to those who are perishing and the Bible talks

[00:23:08] about this that if they have hated me they will hate you and this is why there’s a spiritual component here because this is people holding a death

[00:23:15] grip onto you know I want to do do life my way I want to do things my way and

[00:23:21] anybody who says otherwise I’m going to I’m going to fight them you know tooth and nail um it’s interesting because Dr

[00:23:27] Robert Spitz which I’m sure you’re familiar with he’s the one right who got homosexuality taken out of the DSM as a

[00:23:35] mental mental disorder originally back in the 1970s but I was studying this and he actually ended up um making a

[00:23:42] statement that he believed um he says this is a quote from him like most psychiatrists I thought that homosexual

[00:23:47] Behavior could only be resisted and that no one could really change their sexual orientation I now believe that to be

[00:23:53] false some people can and do change and his statement was that that after he

[00:23:59] made that correction not trying to be political just trying to look at the actual facts the actual data um that the

[00:24:07] death threats and the hostility that and he’s not even a Christian he wasn’t even a Christian and he’s the one that got it

[00:24:13] taken out of the DSM if any if anything he’s the one that you would go hey this guy’s unbiased but yet he was uh

[00:24:21] threatened uh he said he’s never experienced anything like it and he did eventually retract that statement you

[00:24:27] know he backed away from that statement so you know the the thing I I think fair-minded people um need to be

[00:24:33] thinking about okay I don’t care whether you’re a Christian I don’t care whether you’re gay or straight we are losing

[00:24:38] science yes actual Revolution is destroying science in the west okay that

[00:24:44] is a demonstrable fact and if you don’t like the examples we’re using here today just put your ear to the ground and you

[00:24:51] will see other examples you know where I mean I think most people realize that the transgender issue is not science

[00:24:57] it’s something else you know most people are capable of seeing that and so if you’re a person who thinks

[00:25:03] transgenderism is out there and crazy and obviously nuts but you thought gay

[00:25:08] marriage was fine I would really implore you to reconsider your basic assumptions there

[00:25:15] because they’re you know they have a lot more commonalities than you might think I mean it would take us a while to go through them all but but I would really

[00:25:22] implore you to to be open-minded about them because you know the West is losing science and it’s not the fault of the

[00:25:28] Church okay let’s just be real clear don’t think about bringing up Galileo or I’m going to smack you okay just nothing

[00:25:36] to do with it right no not at all that’s crazy um but but expand on that expand

[00:25:41] So when you say that that the sexual Revolution is destroying science um expand on that for our listeners what do

[00:25:47] you mean by that well okay so so for example there are there are numerous

[00:25:53] examples of the following okay there is some uh fact that is that could be

[00:25:58] scientifically discernable um but if it came out one way it would be damaging to the premises of the sexual Revolution

[00:26:05] and so therefore the proponents of the sexual Revolution have a deep vested interest in that not being true okay and

[00:26:14] so one of the first places you can see it is the is the connection between abortion and breast cancer um there have

[00:26:20] been numerous studies showing a correlation between abortion and breast breast cancer there is a very plausible

[00:26:28] medical scientific connection between the premature unnatural Interruption of

[00:26:35] a pregnancy and a greater likelihood of developing breast cancer okay which

[00:26:41] distinguishes it from um miscarriage for example you know some the process at

[00:26:46] work in a miscarriage is some is something different than what happens when the pregnancy is interrupted a

[00:26:52] healthy pregnancy is interrupted by an abortion so there’s a plausible mechanism there’s plenty of survey data

[00:26:59] and the and but the idea that um

[00:27:04] abortion might be implicated in breast cancer that is that is anathema to the

[00:27:10] people who want to say that abortion is always safe it as long as it’s legal

[00:27:15] it’s going to be safe you know um kind of a thing and so um in the in the early

[00:27:22] 2000s the National Institutes for health U had a big convened a meeting to to get

[00:27:29] to the bottom of this you know and to forge a consensus and the consensus they came up with was that there’s no

[00:27:34] connection between abortion and breast cancer and the way they came up with that consensus Kevin is by not inviting

[00:27:41] anybody who disagreed okay and I have I interviewed one of the guys in that

[00:27:46] situation he’s a guy about my age maybe a little older um and I wanted to get on

[00:27:52] the record what happened you know tell us about this meeting um and so

[00:27:58] I I you know he he described it you know they they didn’t they didn’t invite us

[00:28:04] we showed up to the meeting they said you’ll be able to ask questions from the floor you’ll be able to present a Minority Report none of that happened

[00:28:11] you know he went to a colleague and said would you be willing to you know join in join in writing a Minority Report with

[00:28:17] me you know because I know you share My Views and so on and she said and to me this is the the most damning thing she

[00:28:25] said to himl I have to live with these people they control my grant money end of story

[00:28:32] you know basically end of story they control my grant money and that video we put that video up in I forget what year

[00:28:39] it was but in October breast cancer awareness month that’s when I chose to put that video up um after the dobs

[00:28:47] decision YouTube took it down YouTube went and took down we had two or three

[00:28:52] videos on this topic they took they so they censored our videos about censorship so you can only find them at

[00:28:59] our locals Channel now we have it all archived on locals you can find all that stuff there because they don’t they don’t mess with you but the point is

[00:29:06] this is the way scientific consensus is being created anybody who disagrees doesn’t get grant money doesn’t get

[00:29:13] invited to the meetings doesn’t get their work published now there’s a big movement to force journals to co to to

[00:29:20] um bully journals into react into retracting articles that on on specious

[00:29:27] grounds um that have results they don’t want I read about I just today I read a headline in the Wall Street Journal uh

[00:29:33] where the Wall Street Journal is reporting um I forget the exact wording of the headline but basically the

[00:29:39] journal was saying oh these studies showing problems with the abortion pill uh have all been retracted because they

[00:29:46] were not good studies you know and you know so this these are the techniques

[00:29:52] being used to keep abortion safe you know and and in their mind safe means

[00:29:58] that no one ever criticizes it even if there are problems well you know where’s the Human Institution that has no

[00:30:05] problems attached to it what the heck you know what what you know I

[00:30:11] mean when you think about abortion okay I mean I know this is a little bit off our topic but but I I think people can

[00:30:17] see the the point it’s relevant yeah if you if you think about most medical procedures Kevin there are some people

[00:30:24] who are not candidates for certain procedures who are not candidates for certain medications right this is

[00:30:31] counterindicated for you we have to solve this problem some other way you know so you would think that after 40 50

[00:30:38] years of legal abortion there would be a whole list of things like that where you would say do you have a family history of breast cancer you might want to

[00:30:45] reconsider whether abortion is the right solution to your problem you you have a history you have a personal history of

[00:30:51] depression you know there’s a higher likelihood if you’re already depressed there’s a higher likelihood that the the

[00:30:56] abortion will have the effect of making you more depressed perhaps we should consider some other alternative to your

[00:31:03] problem other than abortion there is nothing like that Kevin you know there is nothing like that that and that would

[00:31:10] be responsible medicine even if you thought abortion was was you know a morally neutral thing you know um yeah

[00:31:17] and I mean this is happening everywhere this is this is happening all throughout our culture you know everything that happened with covid the everything

[00:31:24] that’s happening with abortion everything that’s happening with uh the the issue of homosexuality I I mean

[00:31:30] numerous people that were researchers on the issue of homosexuality I used to have resources that I would go to

[00:31:36] they’re all gone like they they disbanded a lot of their organizations just because of the amount of um attacks

[00:31:43] that were being leveled against them um all in the name of uh don’t tell me what to do uh I I don’t even want to know the

[00:31:50] facts right it’s the whole ignorance is bliss I’m going to ignore what’s real

[00:31:55] just so I don’t have to um deal with it because I want to do what I want to

[00:32:00] do you know you know Kevin after I wrote this book this this book

[00:32:07] the sexual State came out in 2018 okay and now I don’t know if you’ve ever written a book but the way it works for

[00:32:13] me is after I write a book I talk about it for five years and I figure out what it was really all about

[00:32:19] yeah like ah but but um I gave a talk to

[00:32:25] liveaction um a couple of months ago are you you must be oh yeah I love live

[00:32:30] action they’re amazing I’m sure your followers are familiar with Lyla Rose yeah I actually use some of their stuff

[00:32:36] in my classes when I talk about the issue of abortion with my students she’s great and she you know and she’s one of

[00:32:44] the people who sees the connection between abortion and The Wider sexual culture and is willing to say something

[00:32:50] about it so anyway the reason I’m bringing that up is that she brought me in to give a talk at her youth

[00:32:55] Leadership Summit you know and I had 20 minutes to to make my point and I’m like oh my gosh this is like how am I going

[00:33:01] to get it all in you know but but I came up with this this thought you know we

[00:33:07] and you can see she’s got the video over on her on her site if you want to see it but the sexual Revolution basically says

[00:33:14] this this is the big promise of the sexual Revolution it says you get to do

[00:33:20] anything you want sexually and nothing bad will happen nothing bad will happen to you not to anyone nothing bad will

[00:33:27] happen okay and therefore anything bad that does happen that has to be

[00:33:32] suppressed right because that upsets the whole promise of the thing because your your thesis falls apart that’s right

[00:33:40] forward you know every person who regrets their divorce yeah you know I mean I can’t

[00:33:47] tell you how many times I’ve heard people say if I had known how hard divorce was going to be I would have worked harder at my marriage you know

[00:33:54] the culture hides that from us but anyway but what I said to young people is that this statement is is the implied

[00:34:03] promise of the sexual Revolution this is why it is so appealing it is intrinsically

[00:34:09] seductive so if you don’t consciously and specifically intentionally resist

[00:34:17] you’re going to be swept away by it it’s just too seductive you know I mean it’s

[00:34:22] the evil one you know it’s like exactly what he does but the other thing you have to realizes that when you’re in

[00:34:28] conversation with someone and you’re trying to argue against the sexual Revolution that promise is what you’re

[00:34:35] asking them to give up and they’re not ready to give it up you know you know

[00:34:41] but but I think if you understand that that’s the promise you’ll see where the

[00:34:46] resistance you know why the resistance is so great you know oh yeah absolutely

[00:34:52] I mean you know it’s I think you’re you’ve nailed it it’s exactly right and

[00:34:57] and all the evidence is being you know I used to be uh my wife and I used to be property managers in Hillcrest um a long

[00:35:03] time ago when we were very young and about 50% of the people in the apartment complex we were in were uh samesex

[00:35:10] oriented and every time they would turn in their rent um I would just say hey is there anything I can pray for you for um

[00:35:17] and just trying to be a light and a and a blessing to people and many people did ask for prayer for different things but

[00:35:22] one fellow um he was very resistant he didn’t he didn’t even like that I asked him if if I could pray for him or

[00:35:27] anything but about two years in he actually he didn’t look well at all he was a young guy probably in his mid 20s

[00:35:34] and he said he said actually there is something you can pray for me for and I said what’s going on and he said one of

[00:35:40] my close friends yesterday died of AIDS and I I said I’m really sorry about that I I’ll definitely let’s you know I’ll

[00:35:46] pray for you right now and um I after I prayed for him I asked him how many friends have you had that have died

[00:35:52] because I knew a little bit about it but I didn’t know a lot he said I’ve had 12 close personal friends die of AIDS and

[00:35:59] that blew my mind I was like what at this age and um God doesn’t wish that on

[00:36:05] anyone you know um the Bible says I God says I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked but rather that they repent

[00:36:12] right and live and um I think that’s the problem is that a lot of people um see Christians and people like yourself as

[00:36:19] somehow out to just you know take away their fun or or uh you know tell them

[00:36:24] they’re wrong somehow of some holier than thou uh message but in fact it’s a message of Love um like you’re saying is

[00:36:31] that hey um sometime we have to show restraint because that’s the most loving thing you can possibly do and sometimes

[00:36:37] that’s dealing with a hard truth because if we if we go down this path too far um it’s a dangerous path and um God has

[00:36:44] only good intentions for people and and I think um I think what you’re doing is wonderful I I hope it continues too

[00:36:51] because the whole ex gave visibility day because um I’ve interviewed Patty height

[00:36:57] uh she former lesbian I interviewed Becket cook former homosexual I interviewed Dr Christopher Yuan former

[00:37:03] homosexual all these people um have left homosexuality and said um hey they’re

[00:37:11] they’re way better off for it feel better yeah they feel better their their anxiety didn’t go up um their anxiety

[00:37:19] decreased their peace of mind um is what went up and that’s what that’s what um

[00:37:24] you know is meant to happen is is uh to have peace and to be able to thrive not

[00:37:30] not stifle yourself so and and I think I think the born gay U idea has done a lot

[00:37:36] of harm on a lot of different levels okay and one of the places where it harms people is it robs them of hope

[00:37:43] that their life can be different than it is you know yes and um one of the people that we interviewed in our you know all

[00:37:50] of this work that we’re doing is um somebody who is herself a counselor you

[00:37:56] know done had she’s a professor at a at a Christian University um and she did

[00:38:01] some research papers and you know she’s just has a lot of experience one of the things that she told us is that they

[00:38:08] they had a study where they were studying um men who went to a reparative

[00:38:15] Therapy Clinic you know people that were set up to try to help people address samex attraction and it’s not a huge

[00:38:23] study I think this is I think this is the one that had 125 minute or something something like that not a huge number

[00:38:28] not meant to be representative meant to be demonstrative you know in other words to show this could be this is a possible

[00:38:34] thing and they have the psy the psycho people the psycho people the psychology

[00:38:40] people um have um some kind of of test like a um an instrument that they they

[00:38:47] will give people every time they come for therapy to check how they’re functioning to check how they’re doing in case somebody’s really you know uh in

[00:38:55] a lot of distress they want to find that out quickly so it’s like I I gather you know this is not my field but I gather

[00:39:01] that this is a pretty standard testing instrument and they do it you know at the beginning of every session and she

[00:39:07] said these men who who came for this treatment their scores on that improved

[00:39:12] within a couple of weeks you could already see them feeling better because they were being given some hope um that

[00:39:20] the things that were troubling them could be addressed at least some of them could be addressed and and one of the

[00:39:25] things you see in this type of study is it you’ll see maybe a quarter of people maybe a third of people um after after

[00:39:34] the fact saying I’ve achieved um heterosexuality you know I I’m I’m a stable person with preferences for the

[00:39:41] opposite sex but you’ll see another at least a third sometimes more of people

[00:39:47] who will say you know my my attractions have lessened or you’ll see people saying you

[00:39:54] know it hasn’t done much about my attractions but I do feel better in these ways anxiety and you know

[00:40:01] compulsive behaviors and depression and different things like that that they measure so that even if the people are

[00:40:07] not um changing their sexual orientation they’re finding some relief because

[00:40:12] somebody’s talking to them in a real you know and listening to them now that’s the other thing a lot of like you said

[00:40:19] giving them hope you know um giving the per the person agency um I think that’s the problem

[00:40:26] with the californ law is that it takes away individual human freedom and and

[00:40:33] and the freedom to choose um which which is in the name of an ideology in the

[00:40:39] name of like you said a premise which is that people can’t change a sex sexual orientation I am going to make it

[00:40:46] illegal for a person to even pursue yeah that that is that is cult-like behavior

[00:40:53] that is like not okay uh especially not in America it’s crazy you know I’m going

[00:41:00] to say something and and I’m going to be deliberately provocative here I I don’t you know I’m a Roman Catholic and and

[00:41:06] you’re not and when I’m talking to people aren’t Roman Catholic I’m never sure quite you know because y’all are

[00:41:13] all over the place you know yeah right you know no offense but well we are what

[00:41:18] I I just I had father Vincent Lambert on the show a couple weeks ago uh he’s a

[00:41:26] Catholic excist yes I know who you mean yeah he was great he was really great

[00:41:32] anyway here’s what here’s all I wanted to say yeah to born gay is a kind of secular

[00:41:38] Calvinism it’s predes I’m not a calvinist so you you don’t offend me okay

[00:41:44] great right I don’t want to go I don’t want to get mobbed and all of that but the point is Calvinism without Grace are

[00:41:52] you kidding me I mean you know I mean the whole point the only thing that makes Calvinism even possible for people

[00:41:58] to believe in is that is that God will somehow rescue that they are among the chosen who will be rescued by God’s

[00:42:04] grace well there’s no rescue operation here you know there’s no agency and there’s no Grace you know so it’s like

[00:42:11] this is really it’s it’s very dark you know when you it from that perspective

[00:42:17] it’s it’s very dark and it’s no wonder people are um you you know have problems

[00:42:22] I have problems dealing with it um you know State coercing people to a

[00:42:30] particular position it’s it’s so unamerican and so um just un liberal or

[00:42:37] libertarian or anything I I mean it’s everything that nobody wants you would

[00:42:44] think you would think it’s just stunning to me that people can’t see that that they can’t see that they’ve swung the

[00:42:51] pendulum uh back to a place that is more hostile than somebody you know

[00:42:58] the old conversion therapy of whatever they they used to say the shock therapy or whatever uh which no one is doing by

[00:43:05] the way no one is doing that no aversive conversion therapy I I’m not

[00:43:12] aware of anybody doing it anywhere no nobody does that it’s already illegal that kind of stuff would be illegal you

[00:43:19] don’t need a special La for that come on you guys stop I know know time to update

[00:43:25] your uh your knowledge of the uh the other side you know yeah yeah yeah

[00:43:30] yeah yeah but um well anyway yeah well uh we’re just about out of time Dr

[00:43:36] Morris um but um for those of you listening Ruth institute.org um and xgay

[00:43:43] visibility day if it’s something you want to see um continue which I think it’s important because it gives people

[00:43:49] hope and lets people know that there are people out there that um don’t believe that you have to be trapped with a

[00:43:55] particular sexual Orient and that you do have agency you have the freedom um to move your life in the direction that you

[00:44:02] want to move it um and the state shouldn’t be the one telling you what you have to be um and so uh Dr Morris I

[00:44:10] just want to thank you for all your work and uh for everything you’re doing uh you are a huge blessing to many people

[00:44:15] yes please uh tell our listeners about this so if I may say um if you come over to Ruth institute.org and you sign up

[00:44:22] for our newsletter you will automatically receive a free PDF copy of our report refuting the top five gay

[00:44:29] myths and the top five gay myths we’ve been talking about them indirectly here today but the biggest one the

[00:44:35] overarching one is that um that sexual orientation is a an innate immutable

[00:44:42] trait that is the big lie that has been invented for political purposes and as a

[00:44:49] political move it’s been extremely successful unfortunately it’s not true and therefore it’s causing all sorts of

[00:44:55] other problems so so if you want to get and this 30-page report is filled with

[00:45:01] scientific studies uh as well as personal stories of people who have who whose lives testify in some way to the

[00:45:08] point that we’re making but there’s plenty of science scientific research backing up the things that are said here

[00:45:14] so you just go to Ruth institute.org and you sign up for refuting the top five gave Miss so come right into your inbox

[00:45:20] right away wonderful wonderful and if you’d like to listen to a recording of this or maybe forward a recording of

[00:45:26] this program to a friend you can get that on educate forlife.org that’s on our website and um we’ve got some other

[00:45:33] great shows coming up in the future so love to have you with us again next week my name is Kevin Conover and uh you’re

[00:45:39] listening to educate for Life radio I hope you have a wonderful week and continue to spread the good news um what

[00:45:45] did Jesus Christ say he said you will know the truth and the truth will set you free that is absolutely correct