How to be a Hero with Dr. Marc Newman Pro-Life Advocate

[00:00:00] thanks for being here this evening my name is Kevin connerberg you’re on educate for Life radio we’re broadcasting down here in Southern

[00:00:05] California on K praise 12 10 a.m and uh we’re also on FM 106.1 in North County

[00:00:12] and uh then of course we’re all over social media all over the web on YouTube and and podcasts and everywhere else you

[00:00:19] can be so um we’ve had some fantastic guests recently um my guest this evening is Dr Mark

[00:00:24] Newman and um he is an expert on the the uh discussion uh regarding abortion the

[00:00:32] pro-life argument and he’s actually um uh a speaker his website is

[00:00:38] speakerforlife.com he has a training firm that’s dedicated to helping pro-life Advocates become better at

[00:00:44] speaking on these topics so I think this is pretty cool it’s actually an opportunity for you if you’re interested in the subject matter to become a better

[00:00:51] Communicator about it and of course this is very a very hot topic right now because of what happened recently with

[00:00:56] the uh overturning of Roe versus Wade by the Supreme Court and so we’re going to get an update on how that’s going and

[00:01:02] then also how you can make a difference in the life of the people around you he’s also the author of a book contenders which is a church-wide

[00:01:09] strategy to unmask abortion defeat its Advocates Empower Christians and change the world he’s been on Fox News Time

[00:01:15] Magazine and he’s actually from north San Diego County here in California so

[00:01:21] uh that’s pretty cool Dr Newman it’s where I used to be I am relocated to Tennessee I’m in uh in the Great Smoky

[00:01:27] Mountains it’s amazing how many people are doing that I have a lot of friends that uh Harley uh they’re all moving to

[00:01:34] Tennessee and actually it was was at a Homeschool Convention not too long ago where I was in Pigeon Forge and near the

[00:01:42] Smoky Mountains and uh on my flight back was a guy who was visiting family in

[00:01:48] North County because he had moved to Tennessee so it’s just everywhere I go I’m like God is this a sign or what’s

[00:01:54] going on here so we split kids I’ve got one child who’s uh not a child I’ve had a grown man over in Temecula and then my

[00:02:01] youngest stayed here in Tennessee so we stayed in California for quite a while and then now we’re out here in Tennessee

[00:02:06] that’s fantastic I hope you’re enjoying it it’s very pretty I was I’m actually right outside of Pigeon Forge you probably could have thrown a thrown a

[00:02:13] rock at my house yeah you know one of the things that I was reading um you know on your bio you were actually uh the director of

[00:02:19] speech and debate at the University of California at Irvine um and you were speaking in the doctoral

[00:02:26] program for the school of communication uh so a lot at Regent University in the graduate program

[00:02:32] yeah that’s that’s incredible um and so you have a pretty um awesome skill set for being able to communicate

[00:02:37] effectively about these issues and I I thought that was really cool

[00:02:42] um so how did you so did your passion for the issue of you know the pro-life arguments

[00:02:49] did that come first after you were um you know became an expert in public speaking or was it vice versa how did

[00:02:56] that all come about no no I competed all through high school I competed all through college I went off and uh went

[00:03:02] to Louisiana State University for my Master’s Degree came back and began coaching Intercollegiate speech and

[00:03:07] debate later on went back and got my PhD but no I I I I fell into this my uh info

[00:03:15] that’s from my perspective you know from God’s perspective yeah I think he had on this plan but a associate pastor at my

[00:03:21] church had taken a one-year leave of absence in order to take on this thing called a

[00:03:27] Crisis Pregnancy Center and at the time I had been doing corporate Consulting work when I was at UC Irvine and so he

[00:03:33] said hey I know that you trained speakers would you come down and train my staff I said sure what do you do you say well I run this Crisis Pregnancy

[00:03:39] Center I said that’s great what’s that yeah and so he told me what he was doing and

[00:03:45] I said well I don’t really know much about you know what your organization does but if you’ll send me some seed articles if you’ll send me you know a

[00:03:51] book or something I’ll I’ll get ready to go I’ll take all of the material that I was using to train corporate people and

[00:03:56] I will retrofit it and we will train your people using best practices so he sent me Kurt Young’s the least of these

[00:04:02] he sent me the abortion papers by Bernard Nathanson and then I began reading more and more about it and I was

[00:04:08] absolutely uh floored by what it was that I was seeing I couldn’t believe that these things were legal I couldn’t

[00:04:13] believe that anybody would do such things because you know the books they have photos in them it’s kind of hard to deny what’s happening here so I went

[00:04:20] down and did some training and then I thought I was done and then I got a call you know I went

[00:04:26] and did a little bit more and you know you start thinking hey you know I’ll do God a favor you know throw a bone to these little 501c3 corporations don’t

[00:04:33] ever do that that’s a bad idea and uh so finally I I ended up putting an entire program together and I went down and

[00:04:40] spoke to uh at the time Grace Denny was the director at the Pregnancy Center and in my area and I took her out to lunch

[00:04:45] and I said hey if I what do you think about this if I if I offer a workshop like this do you think anybody would

[00:04:51] come and she said I would send seven of my staff right away and I went okay and so I did a couple here did a couple

[00:04:57] there and then I ended up meeting David Maul who was a mover and Shaker in the Illinois area intriguingly at the

[00:05:03] national communication Association conference not at anything pro-life related but I was in a uh I was in a session a couple of Scholars were trying

[00:05:10] to tear apart Bernard nathanson’s film some of your listeners probably have seen it called the silent screen and I

[00:05:16] stood up in my seat and had what um what people might refer to as a Frank and open discussion with the scholars and I

[00:05:23] didn’t know it but David was literally sitting three rows behind me and he met me out in the hallway and he said hey

[00:05:28] how would you like to speak at the national right to life and I went okay about three years later did that um I

[00:05:34] had spoken at uh focus on the family and then later on at some Regional director’s conferences and the next

[00:05:40] thing you know you know I’m at National right to life I’m speaking at CareNet heartbeat uh mostly what I’m bringing to

[00:05:46] the table is communication theory and practice so I’m trying to help people who are

[00:05:52] already passionately involved with the issue to be able to package their ideas

[00:05:57] better to primarily to support the work of Pregnancy Care Centers but I’ve also worked with a number of apologists who

[00:06:04] work for example for Scott Clues endorse organization Life Training Institute a number of other places like that and

[00:06:09] then I of course go out and speak uh both as a keynote Banquets for fundraising but I also do pastor

[00:06:15] training and uh and I do an apologetic session so it says I was just in Santa Rosa last week doing a pastor training

[00:06:22] session up there and then the evening before we did a three-hour apologetics class

[00:06:28] that’s fantastic well uh so you know uh for those of you listening my guest is Dr Mark Newman speakerforlife.com

[00:06:35] um and if you are interested in getting better at speaking about these issues um he’s he’s the resource to go to so

[00:06:43] um can you talk to us a little bit more about this well well I’m I’m very curious to get an update on you know we have the elections coming up here right

[00:06:49] around the corner and we have the overturning of Roe versus Wade I was just doing a little bit of looking

[00:06:55] around and um you know if this is a serious battle all over the country uh there are lawsuits like crazy

[00:07:02] um I’m getting stuff from the aclj all the time California just uh recently it looks like as far as I can tell has

[00:07:08] legalized what looks like potentially infanticide um according to criminalized that yeah

[00:07:14] decriminalized it yeah so so um essentially at least what I’m reading

[00:07:20] from the aclj it says 28 days up after birth um a person could potentially have a

[00:07:26] child die and and you you couldn’t prosecute him for it if they it wouldn’t be investigated it wouldn’t be

[00:07:32] investigated yeah so which is essentially what that is uh so I I my understanding is and I could be wrong

[00:07:38] about this I I’m trying to keep tabs on 50 different states yeah there had been an amendment I don’t know

[00:07:44] if it passed or not trying to limit that to deaths that happened in the womb but initially the word that they used was

[00:07:49] paranal which can take you anywhere from the 20th week of gestation all the way to up to between 7 and 28 days

[00:07:55] post-birth they weren’t going to investigate they weren’t going to prosecute any of those deaths and obviously as you can imagine it could

[00:08:02] lead to uh to infanticides that never get uh get investigated or prosecuted

[00:08:08] yeah it’s really scary it’s really scary um where people’s values are going in regards to life um it used to be people

[00:08:16] would try to hide the the fact that they were okay with killing a human being um they would at least argue that it was

[00:08:22] not a human being and now more and more we’re hearing that um I don’t care if it is a human being I

[00:08:28] I’m I’m okay with that um can you speak to that issue and and what you’re hearing around the country as you speak a couple of things well

[00:08:34] number one there’s still a lot of people out there who are arguing that it’s not a human being that human life does not begin a conception which I find to be

[00:08:40] amazing by the way no one who debates this issue ever brings that issue up everybody knows that human life begins a

[00:08:46] conception so I’ve got all kinds of you know Wonderful evidence for that but more Prasad and torsha in their book the

[00:08:51] developing human clinically oriented embryology this is a later edition of the book published in 2019 but this is a

[00:08:56] long-standing embryological textbook they make it very clear human life begins a conception it’s the beginning

[00:09:02] of they say each one of us as a unique individual those those are their words so it says it meets if it meets and

[00:09:08] unites with an egg cell this says a new life begins you can see that on your camera okay yeah now the funny thing

[00:09:14] about this this was published in 1951 it’s identical to what more Persona and torture are saying and yet this one

[00:09:20] why it was distributed by the Planned Parenthood by Planned Parenthood Federation of America oh wow so this is

[00:09:25] what Planned Parenthood told everybody back in 1951 they knew this is not the only little piece of evidence that

[00:09:31] demonstrates this this is called plan your children for health and happiness many of your uh viewers may have seen

[00:09:36] this little photocopy it’s been going around for a long time uh it’s about birth control and the question is abortion is it a birth control is it an

[00:09:44] abortion and this is their answer this is planned parenthood’s answer definitely not an abortion kills the

[00:09:49] life of a baby after it has begun it is dangerous to your life and health it may make you sterile so that when you want a child you cannot have it

[00:09:55] this is what Planned Parenthood told Every Woman prior to 1963. now how do I know that this was prior to 1963 right

[00:10:02] there’s no um there’s no copyright date on this but the other thing there’s not on this is a

[00:10:08] zip code and zip codes were introduced in 1963. so we know that this was 1963 or before

[00:10:13] now sometimes people look at this and they say I don’t know Dr name I think it looks a little photoshopped to me

[00:10:19] which is why I’m always glad that I took the time to go out locate and purchase and original

[00:10:24] wow so this is I’ve keep it in mylar but the only difference between this brochure and the one I just showed you

[00:10:30] by the way you might have noted if you’re being very observant these had different covers which means that this

[00:10:35] brochure was released on with a variety of different covers over a long period of time the only difference between this

[00:10:41] one and that one in terms of the answer to that question is they uh they add the they add the uh the sentence and

[00:10:47] abortion requires an operation but it still says an abortion kills the life of a baby after it’s begun everybody knows

[00:10:54] human life begins at conception everybody knows and I mean everybody knows that it uh

[00:11:01] that abortion is that the intentional killing of an innocent human life so that that part’s not even really debated

[00:11:07] anymore the amazing thing from the from California’s perspective is uh is how few people are aware of an article that

[00:11:14] came out this was back uh in 1970 three years before Roe versus Wade

[00:11:20] it was an article that appeared in California medicine which is actually the official Journal of the California medical association if you don’t mind

[00:11:27] it’s a little lengthy quote but I think it’s worth reading yeah right since the old ethic has not been

[00:11:33] fully displaced it has become necessary to separate the idea of abortion from the idea of killing which continues to

[00:11:39] be socially abhorrent the result has been a curious avoidance of the scientific fact which everyone really

[00:11:45] knows that human life begins at conception and is continuous whether intra or extra uterine until death the

[00:11:51] very considerable semantic gymnastics which are required to rationalize abortion as anything but the taking of a

[00:11:57] human life would be ludicrous if they were not often put forth under socially impeccable auspices it is suggested by

[00:12:04] the authors that this schizophrenic sort of subterfuge is necessary because while

[00:12:10] a new ethic is being accepted the old one has not yet been rejected now when you read this article in context it’s

[00:12:16] abundantly clear because they state it right out front this old ethic that they’re trying to replace is the

[00:12:22] judeo-christian ethic the ethic that argues that every human being has objective moral value and they make it

[00:12:29] very clear that it needs to be replaced by an ethic that says that every human being only has relative moral value and

[00:12:36] they say in order to accomplish this goal the first thing we’re going to have to do is lie to people right we’re going to engage in very considerable semantic

[00:12:43] gymnastics or schizophrenic sort of subterfuge it’s planned lying and they say the way we’re going to help people

[00:12:49] to overcome this natural intuition is that we’re going to put out this lie often under socially impeccable auspices

[00:12:55] and what I tell people is this is what they did and it worked it worked

[00:13:01] that’s incredible um you know I I just find that

[00:13:06] um kind of stunning in the sense that how do you justify the killing of another human being uh what are the

[00:13:13] arguments that you’re hearing today you know when you debate and when you talk to somebody and somebody says hey this is okay uh it just seems like you would

[00:13:20] lose the debate no matter what if you if you said that but clearly that’s not the

[00:13:26] case because you know there’s been a lot of ground gained by those who are for abortion yeah well I can give you the

[00:13:33] the real answer and then we can walk back through how it gets argued the real answer is that some people perceive that

[00:13:39] it’s in their best interest to kill other people right in other words they either like

[00:13:44] their life the way it is and a child is going to interrupt that life or they see a life ahead of them that they want and

[00:13:49] the child’s going to get in the way so because the child is not convenient for them and by the way I really don’t I try

[00:13:55] to tell pro-lifer speak very careful with the use of the word convenient because many women who are seeking abortions feel desperate and that is not

[00:14:02] convenience um but in other words it’s not good for them in their mind to have a child at

[00:14:07] this time and so they believe that it should be morally permissible for them to get rid of any children that they

[00:14:13] don’t want there was a fascinating article put out by jiblini and Minerva it was called after birth abortion why

[00:14:19] should the baby live and it was in the Journal of medical ethics back in 2012 so this is not some you know outlier

[00:14:24] medical journal and these guys make the argument that nobody should be required to take care of a child that they don’t

[00:14:30] want to I mean if you read the end of their article it is stunning they don’t really put time limits on anything and

[00:14:36] it just really looks like because it is infanticide uh Gary M Atkinson wrote an

[00:14:42] essay called the morality of abortion back in 1974 for the international philosophical quarterly and in his essay

[00:14:49] he talks about how all of the arguments that are put forth for abortion on demand if they are valid they are

[00:14:55] equally valid to justify involuntary that’s the key word involuntary euthanasia and then it goes about

[00:15:02] explaining how that happens that there’s only a very thin tissue between abortion

[00:15:08] on demand and involuntary euthanasia and he says then eventually it’s going to be torn down because people are going to

[00:15:13] perceive that it’s in their own best interests to do so and he says the way they’re going to do it is they’re going

[00:15:18] to first highlight the distinctives between and many of

[00:15:24] these are are immaterial distinctives between the fetus and the newborn and he says and

[00:15:30] once they do then thereby justifying killing the fetus right and then after they’ve managed to get that in place then they’re going to talk about the um

[00:15:37] similarities between the newborn and the fetus and because they’re so similar and because it’s okay to kill the fetus then

[00:15:43] it must be okay to kill the newborn and amazingly decades later this is precisely the

[00:15:50] argument that giblinian Minerva build in their essay so uh I find it fascinating that at the

[00:15:56] end of Atkinson’s essay what he says is he says look the rational person is

[00:16:01] going to reject abortion and self-defense because they’re going they’re coming after them now but there’s no reason in the world why once

[00:16:07] we’ve established this that they won’t come after you yeah uh you know um there was a

[00:16:13] professor not too long ago I’m blanking on his name now but he was very famous because he came out kind of quote ahead

[00:16:19] of his time um saying that he believed you should be able to um abort a quote abort a child up to two

[00:16:26] years old um who was that who was that Professor I know who he is I can’t come up with his

[00:16:31] name right now but he his argument as far as I understood it was um he said that the

[00:16:37] the thought the thoughts of a newborn are no different than the thoughts of a a baby at nine months in the womb

[00:16:43] um they’re not thinking any more complex thoughts and and so his justification for being able to to kill the baby was

[00:16:49] that that was his line that was right his his criteria yeah what you’re getting into now are personhood

[00:16:55] arguments and there are a variety of those uh all of them fall into four key categories that were identified by

[00:17:00] Stephen Schwartz in his book I can’t remember the title right off top of my head but uh they they fall into a into four categories my friend Scott

[00:17:07] cluesendorf has probably popularized this more than almost anybody else called sled in other words they fall

[00:17:12] into size level of development environment and degree of dependency so what people say is well it can’t be a

[00:17:18] human being because it’s not big enough for example catholic’s got a book called Pro and in

[00:17:23] her book she says I we can’t call that a person why it’s no bigger than the period at the end of this sentence sometimes people say you’re not

[00:17:30] developed enough and these are the kind of arguments that you’re talking about here you don’t have a higher cortical

[00:17:35] brain function you can’t communicate you don’t form relationships right things like that the third argument is what we

[00:17:41] would call environment and this would be where you’re located so people say Well when a woman is pregnant that baby’s

[00:17:47] inside of her body it’s part of her body in fact and it can’t live on its own outside so because it’s inside another

[00:17:53] person it doesn’t qualify as a separate human being and then finally people go to um degree of dependency in other words

[00:18:00] in order to be counted as a human being you have to have a certain degree of dependency and because the fetus is is

[00:18:05] 100 dependent on the mother’s body to live then the you can’t count that

[00:18:11] person as a separate human being the problem is all of these standards are terrible standards to determine who

[00:18:17] lives and who dies we don’t determine who lives and who dies based on how big they are the problem with Catholic is

[00:18:24] not that she doesn’t it it’s her inability to see the human being that’s right in front of her face any biologist

[00:18:30] looking at even a human zygote would be able to identify that as a human being it all depends on what your standard is

[00:18:36] right if your standard for sizes Shaquille O’Neal I don’t qualify yeah right so how big is big enough

[00:18:43] um but from the moment of your existence when your mother’s uh ovum you know

[00:18:49] fused with your father’s sperm you became a unique separate whole distinct living human being and all you needed

[00:18:56] now was nutrition hydration waste removal services and a safe place to live and and you are going to develop

[00:19:02] into a bigger and bigger being and eventually come out as a newborn so when we talk about zygotes embryos and

[00:19:09] fetuses we’re not talking about something else something not you we’re talking about a stage of human

[00:19:14] development in the same way that you used to be a toddler or a teenager right so they’re just stages then we get on to

[00:19:21] the idea of level of development who gets to choose what those standards are how developed is it’s very arbitrary

[00:19:28] well not only that but it’s on a sliding scale right we aren’t all equally intelligent we all you know I I wrote a

[00:19:35] Bible study with AC Green and uh and he is more valuable than me right because he’s bigger than me on a basketball

[00:19:40] court but he’s not more valuable than me as a human being right because of his size in the same way his ability to

[00:19:47] shoot three pointers doesn’t make him more human than I am we all but only but

[00:19:52] only but only if you have a Biblical worldview right only if if there’s inherent objective value or no well I

[00:19:59] would argue that almost anybody just dealing with this from a self-defense perspective would have would agree in

[00:20:05] other words for example you know people always say things like oh you know when your baby comes out it’s okay if it’s a

[00:20:10] boy or girl as long as it’s healthy right you’ll hear people say things like this I remind people that your 10 year old

[00:20:16] your active exuberant bright loquacious 10 year old is one slip on some black

[00:20:21] ice away right from smacking his head on a curb and being an eight-year-old forever now does that mean that at that

[00:20:27] point right he’s lost developmental function does that mean that he’s no longer human what if you get to a point

[00:20:33] in your life where you become a physic right you can’t speak anymore does that make you less Human Than someone else

[00:20:39] what’s the minimum standard and who gets to the side see that these are bad standards for determining life and death

[00:20:45] what you really are looking for is a bright line distinction between what is and what is outside the bounds of what

[00:20:51] constitutes a human being so then we get into the idea of environment right when you walk across the room you walk orders

[00:20:58] of magnitude farther than you passed through your mother’s birth canal and by the way if you have to do that in order

[00:21:03] to be human neither one of my sons uh qualify because they both were born via C-section okay so how far you go that

[00:21:11] that’s not an indicator you of of your uh of your Humanity it also causes some

[00:21:18] rather intriguing difficulties you may have seen the photograph of the man that surgeon he’s performing in a utero

[00:21:23] surgery on this baby the baby’s hand comes out of the uterus and grabs hold of the surgeon’s finger well you would

[00:21:29] have to argue that it wasn’t a human being hand comes out grabs the finger it is a human being and then when they stuff the baby back in it’s not a human

[00:21:35] being anymore I’m sorry it’s incredibly incredibly logically inconsistent

[00:21:41] um but you know um it’s interesting too because sometimes I think myself okay maybe these people just are not

[00:21:46] following this down the path right to if if you decide that this is okay and

[00:21:52] permissible maybe you’re just not thinking through where we end up in that because it reminded me of that that um

[00:21:59] practice they used to have in India where when a husband would die the the wife would have to sacrifice her herself

[00:22:06] in the fire with her husband’s dead body because uh she was now a burden on the

[00:22:12] community because there was no man to take care of her and that practice was

[00:22:17] obviously horribly evil um and yet and Christian missionaries uh

[00:22:22] worked very hard to make that clear to people and get rid of that but it’s almost as if you’re moving back in that

[00:22:28] direction now where a person’s value is dependent upon their utility and that

[00:22:34] now okay well if you’re going to start doing this I mean there’s no end to that that um dangerous road

[00:22:41] that comment feeds the that fourth uh that fourth uh category right the degree

[00:22:46] of dependency we don’t determine whether or not we have laws all throughout the United States right we have Americans

[00:22:52] with Disability Act for example that are designed to protect people who who are the more dependent you are and the

[00:22:59] weaker you are the more protection you receive everywhere except inside the womb right so my mother-in-law Jenny

[00:23:06] sosby had Alzheimer’s and in the late stages she moved in and lived with her family um my sister-in-law wrote a wonderful

[00:23:12] book about it called bringing Mom home you should if you know anybody who’s doing caregiving pick it up and read it

[00:23:17] at no point in time does she cease being my mother-in-law but there was a point in time in which she could not turn

[00:23:22] herself she could not clean herself she could not feed herself get a drink she

[00:23:28] could not communicate in other words she couldn’t do any of the things that

[00:23:34] unborn children can’t do right remember what we said the children in the womb they need right they need uh they need

[00:23:41] hydration Nutrition a safe place to live and waste removal services and that’s what my mother-in-law needed that didn’t

[00:23:48] make her not Jenny sosby anymore just because she had all of those needs so when we’re trying to determine who is

[00:23:54] and is not a human being you need a brightline distinction and the best brightline distinction that you find throughout all of the literature is

[00:24:01] conception before that you have a sperm which is a man’s cell you have an egg

[00:24:07] which is a woman’s cell but the moment those fuse together that is no longer the mom and it’s no longer the dead it

[00:24:12] is a brand new whole human being at one point it wasn’t there and at one point it is there and now once it’s there you

[00:24:20] can’t treat it like it’s a part of somebody else’s body you should not make determinations about how big it is

[00:24:26] babies are much smaller than full-grown adults it doesn’t mean that they’re not valuable eight-year-old girls don’t have

[00:24:32] fully developed reproductive systems that doesn’t mean that they’re not as valuable as their 18 year old sister right these are terrible standards to

[00:24:39] use to determine who is and is not a human being so yeah absolutely so

[00:24:46] um you know I have a I’m a I’m an apologist and I I teach 12th graders and one of the issues we cover is this

[00:24:52] section and I have them read this article it’s by a lady named Mary Elizabeth Williams and it says the title

[00:24:58] of the article is so what if abortion ends life and she used the subtitle all the time oh you know you know it then

[00:25:04] okay very familiar yes sacrificing yeah so what’s interesting

[00:25:09] right is she says no no I’m fine with your definition of life no problem but

[00:25:14] I’m still uh pro-life it’s an awful it’s an awful article but my I was a it’s

[00:25:20] funny I was reading quotes by Dale Carnegie this morning and one of his quotes is um when you’re dealing with people you

[00:25:26] need to realize that you’re dealing with an emotional being not a logical being I thought oh wow that’s so true and um I

[00:25:35] wanted to ask you you know you’ve you’ve done this for a long time now and and logic a lot of times just doesn’t

[00:25:41] doesn’t do it for people when you’re speaking to a group of people and the issue is how am I going to go through

[00:25:47] college how am I going to afford a baby how am I going to afford another baby and these sorts of things

[00:25:53] um dealing with the scientific evidence for conception DNA and all these things how do you approach this emotionally in

[00:26:00] a way that is compelling to the audience that’s really struggling with you know these sorts of issues it’s important for

[00:26:07] people to understand that emotional arguments don’t last you know there’s emotional appeals they’re only good for

[00:26:12] a little bit of time they don’t last a long time why is that what do you mean by that well because for example if you use a

[00:26:19] fear appeal with people um you can’t stay in a heightened state of fear for a long period of time nobody can function that way so you So

[00:26:25] eventually it fades away emotional appeals come and go emotional appeals are important because they drive people

[00:26:31] to action but they have to be grounded in logical appeals because those are the things that stay right so yeah that’s

[00:26:38] really good I really like that I’ve never heard that before if I say to you right that human human life begins a

[00:26:45] conception and when abortions occur they are intentional killings of innocent human beings and then I prove that to

[00:26:51] you with all of the data and the scientific evidence that I have and then I show you a video like this is abortion

[00:26:57] that came out through abort 73 I show this all the time in apologetics classes and you see that Devastation wrought by

[00:27:04] an abortion you see it what happens to babies who are seven weeks to ten weeks gestation to uh you know later in

[00:27:11] gestation all the way up to 24 weeks in gestation you see the mangled dead bodies now that is a a strong emotional

[00:27:18] appeal but it will only have value if it’s grounded in what we know to be true

[00:27:23] otherwise people are going to say things and our opponents do this all the time that’s disgusting I can’t believe you’d

[00:27:28] show me that thing well if the reason it’s disgusting is because of factually what it is so I’ve explained to you what

[00:27:35] it is now I’m going to show you and motivate you to do something about it because I tell people all the time abortion is not an issue

[00:27:40] abortion is an action that has implications it has spiritual implications uh political implications

[00:27:46] moral implications but it’s primarily an action and it’s an action which once completed creates casualties

[00:27:53] so abortion is an action the action of abortion is abortions an act of violence that takes the life of an unborn child

[00:27:58] that’s what it does that’s what my friend Greg Cunningham said that was his definition I’ve been borrowing it for

[00:28:03] ages can you say that one more time yeah abortion is an act of violence that takes the life of an unborn child that’s

[00:28:09] what that’s what all elective abortion is by the way our opponents are working

[00:28:15] overtime to try to muddy the waters right they say well that means all

[00:28:20] abortions will become illegal well you got to Define abortion right of all abortion is when you use the word abortion you just mean that you’re going

[00:28:26] to stop a sequence of events so for example if you are an Air Force pilot and you are sent out on a mission and

[00:28:32] then before you complete the mission your Co calls you up and calls all the planes back people will say that that

[00:28:38] mission was aborted aborted right yeah so because it’s it stopped something that did not

[00:28:43] complete didn’t finish the completion sure when a woman for example has

[00:28:48] um has a miscarriage another word for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion

[00:28:54] right when women have ectopic pregnancies right they need to be treated and when that treatment occurs

[00:29:00] that child’s life will be aborted in other words that child’s not going to be allowed uh be able to continue to

[00:29:06] develop the child has no chance of ever developing uh healthy inside of a fallopian tube yeah but elective

[00:29:13] abortion is different because spontaneous abortion happens naturally um dealing with an ectopic pregnancy is

[00:29:19] simply a question of are we going to maximize the amount of life that we save right we can’t save the baby so we’re

[00:29:26] going to save the mother because if we let the baby go both the baby and the mother are going to die so the um the death of the child is foreseen but it is

[00:29:33] not intended but in elective abortion the entire purpose of engaging intellect of abortion is to end the life of The

[00:29:41] Unborn Child and to call it health care as you’ve recently seen happen in Senate hearings is mind-blowing to me it’s

[00:29:49] certainly not health care for the child who’s being killed and it actually interrupts a natural biological process

[00:29:56] by the way I have to give credit where credit is is due one of my former students who now teaches at Cedarville

[00:30:01] University came up with this you hear people keep talking about oh you people you’re all about forced birth right you’ve heard this it’s that forced birth

[00:30:08] you know he says what is birth birth is where you take something from the inside and it comes to the outside when people

[00:30:13] give birth to an idea then their idea finds a physical manifestation he says you know the only people who are

[00:30:19] engaging in forced birth are abortionists because the birth is going to naturally

[00:30:25] happen if you let it go to 38 weeks right but the abortionist goes in and

[00:30:30] literally kills the child and forcibly takes it out in pieces so the only people doing forced birth are

[00:30:35] abortionists um that’s crazy so um you know the

[00:30:41] elections are coming up here and this this is uh you know all over the place properly um stuff is happening in in

[00:30:47] every state they’ve got different laws and they’re they’re at different places and uh it’s thank God versus Wade was

[00:30:54] overturned um so what’s the next step here and what are your you know in your mind uh what

[00:30:59] do people need to hear about what do our listeners need to hear about and be aware of and how can they make a difference as uh the election’s coming

[00:31:05] up and and how can they be involved and make a difference the first thing they can do is reject prop one

[00:31:11] um that is designed to codify the worst conceivable kinds of abortion into the California

[00:31:19] state constitution what it’s going to do is it’s going to create what I would call a mini row it’s going to make it

[00:31:25] very very difficult later on for anybody to legislate restrictions on abortion even something as simple as parental

[00:31:31] knowledge or consent um by the way there are people out there who are making the argument then in California you can only have an

[00:31:38] abortion up until liability this is completely untrue you can go on planned parenthood’s own website and you will

[00:31:44] find that no one in California is more than 14 miles away from an abortion facility willing to do

[00:31:51] an abortion 24 weeks and Beyond okay so it’s just not true what what happened is they used the uh they use the un’s

[00:31:58] definition of Health which means things like relational Health economic health yeah not not just physical health and so

[00:32:03] what this is going to do is codify it into the California state constitution now I do want to let you know we we have I

[00:32:10] speak with Center directors all over the country and there’s a very fascinating thing going on right now so the Dobbs decision

[00:32:16] overturns Roe versus Wade and directors in life States like the one I live in

[00:32:21] now Tennessee they struggle now with donors who are saying oh gosh do we even have to exist anymore

[00:32:26] and then you know I was just in Santa Rosa I’ll be back in California shortly I’ll be up in Washington uh next week

[00:32:32] and some of their people are in despair right because now they live in this abortion State and people are doubling

[00:32:38] down on it you know California is declaring itself an abortion Sanctuary which is a horrible use of that word uh

[00:32:44] and then of course Gavin Newsom took money out of his own re-election campaign and plunked down uh Billboards

[00:32:51] in seven pro-life States basically inviting their people to California to have abortions uh he also put together

[00:32:57] the future of abortion Council which released this report with a number of recommendations many of which have

[00:33:03] already found it its way into or their way into California state law but one of them was the building out of a 20

[00:33:09] million dollar fund to help fund importing abortions and then of course they’ve encouraged a lot of private

[00:33:15] funds to step up as well to do the same thing so uh what’s happening in California is that a lot of pro-life

[00:33:21] people are feeling like maybe they need to put their time and efforts elsewhere since this seems like a lost cause

[00:33:26] if I could say anything to your listeners today please hear this

[00:33:32] there is nothing in the law that requires anyone to have an abortion therefore we need to be supporting our

[00:33:38] pro-life Pregnancy Help organizations our centers and Clinics to the hilt they are going to be seeing more clients not

[00:33:45] fewer they are they need to be able to get their message out louder not less so

[00:33:50] they need to be geofencing every single college campus in the state of California helping people to know there

[00:33:58] is an alternative to abortion and we will help you do you know that a lot of women would never have an abortion if they really believed that there was

[00:34:04] someone who would come alongside them and help them out and the Pregnancy Center movement has been doing this for

[00:34:09] decades yeah we do it so effectively that the California state government which is unbelievably pro-abortion and I

[00:34:16] will please don’t use the word pro-choice even planned parenthood doesn’t do that anymore on their actions on their action page now they’re saying

[00:34:23] that if you say that you’re pro-choice you’re really just an abortion stigmatizer be proud to be pro-abortion

[00:34:29] they say by the way they also say there’s no such thing as an abortion industry and if that’s the case I would love to know who it is that the National

[00:34:35] Abortion Federation represents my point here is the California state government

[00:34:41] is is going out there saying that these uh these clinics many of which are fully

[00:34:46] accredited medical facilities they’re calling them fake medical clinics and saying that they spread misinformation

[00:34:52] now I’ve got news for you Planned Parenthood is very active right in California I just read to you their

[00:34:58] oh their old definition of a of an abortion how it kills the life of a baby after it has begun I showed you their

[00:35:05] brochure that says that human life begins at conception and now they’re running around saying it doesn’t even though all the medical evidence says

[00:35:11] that it does if anybody is guilty of spreading misinformation it is not

[00:35:17] pregnancy centers it’s Planned Parenthood and others of of their kind they’re telling people things which are

[00:35:23] simply not true and and they’re they’re killing they’re intentionally killing and that and that’s been been from the

[00:35:29] beginning I mean it is it’s awful you know I I have a really good friend of ours my wife and I she’s a nurse who

[00:35:35] works for caps which is a college area Pregnancy Services here in San Diego and they’re growing you know phenomenally

[00:35:42] and thank God all kinds of people are supporting what they’re doing and and they’re opening new centers and it’s

[00:35:48] it’s really incredible but the California legislature tried to require

[00:35:53] um Crisis Pregnancy Center is to post where somebody could go get an abortion inside their pregnancy their Clinic it’s

[00:36:01] it’s Insanity yeah they actually said they ex they they decided how big the lettering was going to have to be but

[00:36:07] then they got uh that was Javier Becerra by the way and uh and now of course uh they went to the Supreme Court he lost

[00:36:13] horribly and now of course he’s in Washington setting National policy so but that’s that came out of that yeah

[00:36:19] people do not understand just how rabid our opponents are how

[00:36:26] desperate they are to kill children in Illinois they are launching a mobile abortion clinic that will basically

[00:36:33] prowl the outskirts of the state where it bumps up against pro-life States in

[00:36:38] order to bring people over to do that um you they some people were talking about getting a floating abortion clinic

[00:36:45] out in the Gulf out yeah in into international waters so that women in Texas could come over and have abortions

[00:36:52] there you know it’s it’s mind-blowing we have corporations like apple for example

[00:36:58] and Amazon who are saying that they will pay money to help their employees if

[00:37:04] they live in a pro-life state to be able to go to an abortion State and get an abortion now people say oh gosh isn’t

[00:37:09] that forward-thinking and Progressive of them not remotely what it’s designed to do I believe is simply to keep women

[00:37:15] chained to their desk not have to pay for maternity maternity leave not have to pay for a difficult delivery not have

[00:37:22] to put that child on their insurance policy see later on it’s one of the most regressive things I’ve ever heard in my

[00:37:28] life it’s anti-family in the extreme and yet here we are what are we going to do

[00:37:33] just give these folks a pass people have to start making decisions and I’m telling you it starts with supporting your pregnancy center but it

[00:37:40] doesn’t stop there okay that’s great and so um that’s a great action point for our

[00:37:46] listeners and for people who want to make a difference is get involved with your Crisis Pregnancy Center nearby and

[00:37:52] then um as far as like let’s say they they want to speak more on these issues

[00:37:57] maybe at local churches maybe at local home groups and these sorts of things um you know and you’re you’re an expert

[00:38:03] on communicating effectively what would you say is maybe the number one number two mistake that that communicators make

[00:38:10] when they’re talking about this particular issue because this this is your focus I think a lot of times people

[00:38:15] get bogged down in unrelated issues so the um the pro-life message is very

[00:38:21] simple I mean I can state it in three sentences it’s wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human being right

[00:38:26] everybody will stipulate that and by the way if you meet people who won’t move away slowly you know yeah so it’s well

[00:38:32] the crazy thing is there’s lots of people that won’t stipulate that well no no they will they’ll stipulate it for

[00:38:37] themselves because if they don’t that means you could turn around and cap them right now yeah yeah right it’s wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human

[00:38:43] being where they where you get pushback is when they say is when you get to the second sentence so it’s wrong to

[00:38:48] intentionally kill an innocent human being abortion intentionally kills an innocent human

[00:38:54] being now I showed you two pieces of evidence to demonstrate that without exception everyone knows human life

[00:39:00] begins a conception everybody knows including Planned Parenthood that abortion intentionally kills human

[00:39:05] beings so if it’s wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human being an abortion intentionally kills an innocent human

[00:39:12] being therefore abortion is wrong it’s a syllogism now some people will say oh yeah I know but we’re not talking about human beings we’re talking about persons

[00:39:18] right the argument about selfhood well we just demonstrated right all of those arguments fall into those four sled

[00:39:24] categories all of them are flawed because they put all post-born people at risk so you can even remake that and say

[00:39:32] it is wrong to intentionally kill an innocent human person and I’ve demonstrated that abortion intentionally

[00:39:37] kills an innocent human person therefore abortion is wrong if you’re in a church you can say it’s sinful to intentionally

[00:39:45] kill an innocent human being abortion intentionally kills an innocent human being therefore abortion is sinful this

[00:39:51] is not a difficult argument so what ends up happening is people get pulled off into what I will call arguments based in

[00:39:57] pity now there’s two ways to look at pity C.S Lewis says you can look at pity as as an emotion and you can look at

[00:40:04] pity as an action all Christians should be right up front ready and able to help

[00:40:10] people who are in pitiable conditions but we should never be sucked into doing evil because we feel bad for somebody

[00:40:17] the argument that he uses he says many young virgins have lost their virginity because of an inappropriate appeal to

[00:40:25] pity right I’m going to be going off the War and who knows if I’ll even come back

[00:40:31] so this is what people say I can’t afford to have a baby right now or I’ve already got two babies I can’t afford a

[00:40:38] third baby now here’s an interesting scenario for you let’s say a woman walked into a doctor’s office and said

[00:40:43] look I’m pregnant with this third child I can’t afford a third child and the doctor said um well why don’t you give me that two-year-old there and I’ll take

[00:40:49] him out back and kill him instead right what would people say yeah right you’re

[00:40:54] a moral monster right yeah why not though it’s much safer for the woman she won’t be at risk at all from anything

[00:41:01] right there’ll be no perforated no chance for a perforated uterus none of that stuff but they won’t do it why

[00:41:07] because they know that two-year-old’s a human being well so is the child in the womb you just can’t see them

[00:41:13] they’re invisible to you and therefore we feel like somehow they’re they’re Expendable but this is it’s just it’s a

[00:41:18] bad argument people make arguments like this but I tell you what the key one is and this is when I think we need to work on on

[00:41:25] um discussing very sensitively and these this is the argument that by the way is going to get shoved down everybody’s throat over the coming months and that’s

[00:41:31] going to be the argument about rape and incest okay are you telling me it’s this is how people push it are you telling me

[00:41:37] that if a woman got pregnant as a result of rape you’re gonna force her to have that baby

[00:41:43] and my first response is you know are have you I got to let you know if you’ve ever been a victim of rape if you’ve

[00:41:49] ever been a victim of incest I feel so terribly sorry for you that is a horrible terrible crime and if the

[00:41:56] person who who uh you know who assaulted you if they are caught and tried and convicted they should be put away for as

[00:42:03] long as they possibly can be it’s a horrible horrible crime by the way do you know that since the late 1970s it is

[00:42:10] illegal even if that person has been a violent serial rapist you cannot give

[00:42:15] that person a death penalty so I say Okay so let’s count human beings here so there’s a woman and she

[00:42:21] is violently raped by this man and what happens as a result is a child is conceived now how many human beings are

[00:42:27] we talking about now okay well we’re talking about three right okay now let’s assign guilt and innocence to rapist

[00:42:33] guilty or innocent well he’s guilty the woman guilty or innocence what are you talking about of course she’s innocent okay what about the child growing in her

[00:42:39] womb guilty or else oil what are you going to say well innocent didn’t do anything to anybody it didn’t even make

[00:42:45] itself appear there it’s just it’s there okay now what do we do to these people well to the rapists we had to punish

[00:42:51] them to the fullest extent of the law and when you say well what should we do to the woman people say do to the woman what are you talking about we should

[00:42:56] provide Aid and comfort and provide her with whatever she needs right okay now what should we do to the child who we’ve

[00:43:02] already identified as one of the innocent parties why is it that in this scenario the only person at risk of

[00:43:08] capital punishment is one of the innocent people right that doesn’t seem fair no no I’m not telling you that we

[00:43:16] should by law require women who become impregnated by rape to to give birth to

[00:43:21] that child and raise it right she can give birth to that child and place that child for adoption if she

[00:43:26] chooses intriguingly the majority of women who find themselves impregnated as a result of

[00:43:32] rape choose to parent that child by the way I just spoke at a banquet up in Santa Rosa where their client

[00:43:39] testimony was a woman who had been victimized by rape she had her little baby with her most

[00:43:45] beautiful little baby you ever saw and what people are saying is that that child shouldn’t be there

[00:43:52] yeah I’m sorry I I’ve never met a single person who has conceived in a rape who believes they shouldn’t exist yes it’s

[00:43:58] it’s an unfortunate event there’s no doubt about it but I’m telling you when you’re dealing

[00:44:03] with other human beings we do not the answer to any kind of social problem the answer to any kind of crime is never go

[00:44:10] kill an innocent person yeah absolutely there’s always a better answer than that I’ve heard people say they’ve said look

[00:44:17] um there aren’t enough people to adopt already the amount of people that need to be adopted no not true what what what

[00:44:25] is the give us the response to that where is it are there plenty of people

[00:44:31] that are willing to adopt yes uh let me give you two number one for babies there are the stats vary between 7 to 14

[00:44:39] families waiting to adopt their own waiting list to adopt uh every available

[00:44:44] child okay now second thing people say well wait a minute but they don’t want

[00:44:49] these children right that’s why they’re being placed for adoption well a lot of women when they find out they’re pregnant don’t want that baby

[00:44:55] and yet a man amazing thing happens over the course of a few months they become bonded to that child and then by the

[00:45:01] time the baby arrives they don’t they no longer have interest in placing that child so the idea that every single child that’s aborted today would end up

[00:45:08] being placed for adoption later is simply not true there was an interesting study that came out called the turn away

[00:45:13] study you may have heard of this uh in it they tracked women who had wanted to commit for an abortion and had been

[00:45:19] turned away for various reasons some of the women went on to get abortions others of the women did not well the

[00:45:25] interesting part of this the survey what most people cite is that there wasn’t this radical uh sense of foreboding or

[00:45:32] depression that’s set in that a lot of women were glad that they had an abortion by the way it’s true a lot of women are very happy they had an

[00:45:38] abortion but that’s only because they either a don’t understand what they did or B are they’re morally compromised in

[00:45:45] a really horrible way or three are completely in denial okay but the fact of the matter is we don’t determine

[00:45:51] whether or not things are good or bad based on how you feel about it I mean after people break into to stores and do

[00:45:56] Smash and grab robberies they’re probably pretty happy that they have a Rolex now yeah right that’s just not a

[00:46:02] good way to determine the right or wrong of something the Intriguing part of the study was the women who got turned away

[00:46:07] who had their children and the vast majority of them are now glad they did

[00:46:13] not abort those children that means that not as many of those kids are going to find their way into

[00:46:19] the adoption system as it is beyond that what most people are referring to are things like the foster care system

[00:46:25] most the the biggest problems that exist in the foster care system is that we make it very difficult for people and

[00:46:31] expensive for people to adopt those children and I think if we could remove some of the legislative red tape and

[00:46:37] some of the well not even legislative but uh but you know there’s all kinds of regulations yeah

[00:46:43] yes make it easier for people to do I think you’d see less of that

[00:46:48] okay well uh for those of you listening my backup let me back up I want to say one last thing let’s say it was true

[00:46:54] it’s true that it’s very very hard let’s say let’s Grant all of their arguments that there’s a bunch of kids that

[00:47:00] parents don’t want does that mean we should kill them should all unwanted children be killed that would be like arguing well you

[00:47:07] can’t she doesn’t want this baby because she can’t afford it well that means that poor children I guess aren’t valuable enough to live should we go out and

[00:47:13] relieve everybody’s economic circumstances by killing their poor children nobody would argue that so I’m

[00:47:19] just saying if people are willing to be intellectually consistent they can’t make these kinds of arguments

[00:47:25] yeah no doubt about it I I have quite a few more questions for you but we’re about out of time here but

[00:47:32] um there’s a lot of interesting things you know that have popped up because of what’s happened with Roe versus Wade

[00:47:37] it’s created a lot more discussion that’s taken place and I’m really appreciative of what you’re doing and um

[00:47:43] for those of you listening my guess is Dr Mark Newman speakerforlife.com if you want to get more information if you want

[00:47:49] to get more involved and of course like he said get involved with your local pregnancy um Center and um whether that’s you know

[00:47:55] donating money whether that’s donating time there’s so many different ways we can be involved and we can make a

[00:48:01] difference and sometimes it seems overwhelming it seems very daunting this this battle we’re in because there’s so

[00:48:06] much money on the other side and it sometimes it seems like they’ll resort to anything uh to lying and just being

[00:48:12] so deceptive but the truth of the matter is is every single person matters and what we have to deal with is that Mom

[00:48:19] right in front of us who’s considering making that decision and that baby in her womb and we just need to take it one

[00:48:24] day at a time and trust the Lord to help us through this so God is moving and he

[00:48:30] is working and uh you know he hasn’t he hasn’t abandoned us and so we just have

[00:48:36] to continue to um pray hard and then work hard so um thank you Dr Newman for what you’re

[00:48:42] doing my pleasure and for anybody out there who’s doing messaging in the church the book that I’ve written will

[00:48:48] completely equip you to be able to message in your church whether you are a life group leader or a Sunday school teacher a pastor a youth pastor and then

[00:48:55] if anybody who’s watching the program if you would like to bring me out to come and train your pastors how to be able to

[00:49:01] preach effectively from the pulpit on this issue I’m happy to come out and do it it’s part of what speaker for life is

[00:49:06] all about that’s wonderful and that book is contenders a church-wide strategy to unmask abortion defeat its Advocates

[00:49:13] Empower Christians and change the world and um please uh you know check that out and

[00:49:18] get involved um we’re making wonderful progress and great things are happening so thanks for

[00:49:24] being here I will have Brian Thomas on next week um with icr if you’re interested in that

[00:49:30] he’s an expert in the uh scientific evidence for creation and I think it’s

[00:49:36] going to be a wonderful show also so I look forward to having you next time but uh thanks for being with us my website’s

[00:49:41] educateforlife.org and you can check out this podcast as it goes up and uh share it with your friends to you please so

[00:49:48] God bless you and we’ll see you next time when you need tires or service count on

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[00:50:58] that means your hands are left free for fishing and fun just throw these on your roof rack they’re light and they’re easy

[00:51:04] to use and maintain just rinse them off try one free on a demo ride for 36 years

[00:51:10] Ron and Debbie Lane have served San Diego with fun family-friendly Water Sports of All Kinds learn more

[00:51:17] fastlanesailing.com 619-222-0766 hi this is Jason Hall

[00:51:24] president of Team Home Loans a branch of synergy One Lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover

[00:51:30] for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:51:36] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be Defenders of our faith it’s

[00:51:42] our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show it is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn

[00:51:47] to be Defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for Life teachings thank you

[00:51:53] Kevin from the hall family and team home loans