A Universe From Nothing- Dr. Lawrence Krauss

[00:00:00] oh here’s your host Kevin Conover bring your tie

[00:00:06] welcome to educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is educate for life dot o-r-g and I’d love to have

[00:00:13] you come out to a debate on September 26th out at San Diego State University there’s gonna be a debate between Dan

[00:00:19] Barker he is the author of Freedom From Religion and he’s also the co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation

[00:00:25] I’m sorry he’s the author of losing faith in faith he was a preacher and Christian and now he’s an atheist and

[00:00:32] he’s going to be debating with dr. Andy McIntosh who is a visiting professor from Leeds and an expert in

[00:00:39] thermodynamics my guest today is also an atheist and I just want to preface this although I disagree with atheism I

[00:00:47] believe it’s really important to dialogue and keep an open dialogue with people I think that’s the best way to get at the truth and I think we only do

[00:00:53] ourselves a disservice if we cut ourselves off from those who have differing opinions or different

[00:00:59] perspectives than we do and so that’s why I love to have Muslims on my show Buddha saw my show

[00:01:05] atheists agnostics all kinds of people on the show and I’m very privileged today to have as our guest dr. Lawrence

[00:01:11] Krauss he received an undergraduate degrees undergraduate degrees in both mathematics and physics at Carleton

[00:01:17] University he received his PhD in physics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology he joined the Harvard

[00:01:23] Society of fellows 1982 to 1985 joined the faculty of the department’s of physics and astronomy at Yale University

[00:01:29] as assistant professor in 1985 and an associate professor in 1988 in 1993 he

[00:01:36] was named the Ambrose I’m not sure if I’m pronouncing this correctly can

[00:01:41] correct me if I’m wrong Ambrose Swasey how do you say that wavy Swasey excuse me professor of physics

[00:01:48] professor of astronomy and chairman of the Department of Physics at Case Western Reserve University in August

[00:01:53] 2008 he took up his new post as foundation professor in the school of Earth and space exploration and physics

[00:01:59] department and the inaugural director of the origins project project at Arizona State University he’s the author of over

[00:02:06] 300 scientific publications as well as numerous popular articles on physics and astronomy and I could go on and on

[00:02:13] dr. Krauss you have amazing credentials thanks so much for being on the show

[00:02:18] today sure well what I really wanted to talk about you know obviously I’m coming from

[00:02:24] a Christian perspective but I love to hear those who don’t come from a

[00:02:30] Christian perspective how do they can they come to their conclusions about reality and the way things are you just

[00:02:36] came out with a book this year called the greatest story ever told and then so far and then the subtitle is

[00:02:44] why are we here you’re also very famous for writing a universe from nothing so I just kind of wanted to talk about your

[00:02:50] book the most recent book obviously it’s it there’s a reference there to the

[00:02:56] greatest story ever told the biblical story and throughout the book you have scriptures chapter 1 it says the simple

[00:03:04] inherit folly but the prudent are crowned with knowledge proverbs 14 18 and I’m just curious what was the

[00:03:12] impetus behind this book and how is it different from your book a universe from

[00:03:17] nothing what is it you’re trying to achieve in writing this book well I mean I’m trying to explain the remarkable

[00:03:25] discoveries that have taken place in understanding universe and how in in less than 400 years we’ve unveiled this

[00:03:32] illusion of reality that we see around us and understand the real universe underneath and now the scientific method

[00:03:38] has allowed us to get there and the amazing fact that what we’ve discovered

[00:03:43] is that more or less our existence is an accident and no look in no way is that

[00:03:49] the fundamental physics of the universe even consistent with our existence but

[00:03:54] but due to an accident or in the early history of the universe a field froze it turns out we the laws of physics altered

[00:04:04] themselves the way that we could arise it’s a it’s just like ice crystals on a window there’s no more significance to

[00:04:10] our existence then there is to one crystal pointing in one direction versus

[00:04:15] another direction if this field is frozen in the earliest of the universe in a different way the laws of physics

[00:04:20] would be such on large scales that we wouldn’t be here so we’re very fortunate to be here but what I discussed in

[00:04:27] this book and in the universe of nothing is how the amazing things we learned about the universe have also told us you

[00:04:33] don’t need any supernatural shenanigans to make that to get us here and moreover

[00:04:38] that in no way is because the universe seemed to appear to be designed for us and those are rarely with things we may

[00:04:45] not like but they’re facts mmm and it and instead of being upset by that we

[00:04:51] should be amazed at the that we get able to learn those things first and secondly

[00:04:56] that to find out how remarkable the universe is and I find it kind of

[00:05:01] remarkable that that that some people find

[00:05:08] that they would rather get their science or their view of the universe from a book written 2,000 years ago by people

[00:05:16] that didn’t even know the Earth orbit of the moon as what I like I like to call it the gold herders guide to the

[00:05:22] universe it was the Golders guide to the universe at that time when we didn’t know anything better and and we can

[00:05:28] respect their attempts to understand reality but what’s amazing is in the last 500 years we’ve discovered an

[00:05:34] incredible amount and and I find it sad that some people have to but not some

[00:05:40] people I find it sad that we have to that we give equal credence to something

[00:05:45] which clearly is inconsistent with most of what we know to be true about the universe okay so so that’s very

[00:05:51] interesting and you know I bought both your books and I’m reading through them and they’re very interesting you got to

[00:06:02] make a living right okay so so what’s interesting to me is so are you presenting these as an alternate hypothesis I guess and I know

[00:06:12] you you probably an alternate hypothesis to the biblical story is that why you phrased the title the way you did but

[00:06:18] you all look I mean there’s no way I mean yes I’m commenting on the fact that

[00:06:24] in there leads to the Western culture because of a movie that was made in 1960s it the Bible story is often called

[00:06:30] the greatest story ever told sure and I’m Alisa I’m taking off on that because this is a great story were told so far

[00:06:35] and that to me this so far is the most important part because the story from science evolves we learn something new

[00:06:41] every day whereas the Bible story is just the same old stuff that’s been around ever since it was there and what

[00:06:47] makes science so successful and vibrant is that we learn things we open our mind up and the story gets better so tomorrow

[00:06:54] it’ll be better than us today and young people maybe listening to your program may contribute to understanding the universe and make it better since then I

[00:07:01] used biblical quotes at the beginning of every chapter because I was dealing with

[00:07:07] questions first of all the book deals with questions which again

[00:07:12] religion tries to serve questions of why are we here yeah that point is that that

[00:07:18] there that science presents a picture now why questions of course are not good questions because they presume purpose

[00:07:24] whenever you say why we really mean how but the difficult folks I chose because the Bible is full of wonderful quotes as

[00:07:30] a piece of literature it’s quite interesting a lot of its boring to be frank and violent and homophobic and

[00:07:37] altars and other things but but but it is got beautiful literature and then I

[00:07:43] and I like to mine literature for fun quotes and there were many ask quotes that I thought related to stuff I was

[00:07:49] talking about when I was talking about science so I thought when I use them some people are offended by that but I find it remarkable because it’s a piece

[00:07:56] of literature and and I used it as that yeah and I well to be honest I actually

[00:08:02] appreciate it because for me I have great respect for those quotes and I think it’s kind of cool that you’re

[00:08:09] somebody who disagrees with that perspective but at the same time you can appreciate the the quotes in there that

[00:08:14] you agree with music that’s been written for a church is some of it as well as

[00:08:19] part of our culture and so our religious heritage in our Western society is part

[00:08:25] of our culture and so we can’t ignore it we just have to realize that we sort of grown out of it hmm so what I want to

[00:08:32] talk about we’re coming up on a break here not too far here but I’d like to if it’s possible go back a little bit farther in your history and kind of hear

[00:08:38] your story how you came to the conclusions you did where you started out and how your ideas have changed and

[00:08:45] developed over time I’m curious to know how you arrived where you are today in

[00:08:50] your thinking and what you see for the future do you think your your thinking could potentially change or do you think

[00:08:56] that you’re you know what what else are we gonna learn about physics that’s gonna change the way you think about

[00:09:01] reality so my guest today is Lawrence Krauss he’s very famous for his book a universe

[00:09:07] from nothing he’s a professor over at Arizona State University in physics but he’s also very interested in origins and

[00:09:14] working to develop projects on figuring out how the beginning of the universe started and deepen our understanding

[00:09:20] from a scientific perspective about how that happened so stay with me very interesting we’re gonna be right back

[00:09:28] [Music] hi this is jason hall president of team

[00:09:33] home loans a branch of synergy one lending i just wanted to take this opportunity to think Kevin Kahn over for

[00:09:39] the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:09:44] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of our faith it’s

[00:09:50] our honor and privilege to support Kevin and a show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn

[00:09:56] to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings

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[00:11:44] thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is educate for life 0

[00:11:50] RG and I’ve got all kinds of information and classes on there about God and the

[00:11:55] Bible and Christianity and you might be surprised that my guest today does not believe in the Bible as God’s Word and

[00:12:01] has serious doubts about God and dr.

[00:12:07] Krauss I wanted to kind of clarify for our listeners do you consider yourself somebody who does not believe who is

[00:12:13] confident because I’ve had different atheists on the show some people are kind of agnostic some people feel

[00:12:19] overwhelmingly confident that God does not exist some people believe it’s impossible to know God exists where do

[00:12:24] you land on that spectrum of cuz I gave was the purpose preface for a book about

[00:12:31] atheism that was about 40 years old and it it enlightened me basically everyone who calls themselves an agnostic is

[00:12:37] really an atheist okay as an atheist at both an agnostic is just saying I don’t

[00:12:42] find the evidence compelling that comes from religion and therefore I’m not willing to to buy into it and that’s all

[00:12:52] an atheist is saying is that I don’t find the evidence compelling I don’t choose to believe something for which

[00:12:57] there’s no good evidence and in fact for which there’s much counter evidence and so atheists and agnostics are really the

[00:13:03] same thing now it’s true that some people say I can definitively argue there is no god but in science the way we we can’t the way we work is the

[00:13:10] things are either very likely or very unlikely so it’s based on probability and and so just as I cannot prove some

[00:13:20] abstract deity that is that has no direct relationship to me it doesn’t

[00:13:26] exist I can’t prove that I can’t prove there isn’t a Eternity pot orbiting Jupiter either but what I say is that

[00:13:33] it’s extremely unlikely that there’s a China teapot orbiting Jupiter and based on everything I know about the universe

[00:13:38] and everything we do understand about the universe over the last 500 years at least it’s extremely

[00:13:45] unlikely that there is a any intelligent any intelligence governing the universe

[00:13:52] but more beyond that I can say with great certainty that the claims and the

[00:13:59] doctrines of all the world’s scriptures not just Christianity Judaism and Islam

[00:14:05] as well their their their holy books are full of things which are just inconsistent with what we know to be

[00:14:11] throughout the universe again not surprising given that they were written by people at a time that didn’t know

[00:14:17] anything about the earth orbiting the Sun or other aspects of nature they were their best effort to try and understand

[00:14:24] a seemingly hostile and indifferent world around them and I understand how useful they were but but but they

[00:14:32] certainly aren’t consistent with what we know to be true so the only kind of God that is consistent with what we know in

[00:14:39] the universe is a kind of impotent God who doesn’t really play any role in

[00:14:45] anything we can see or anything we’ve ever been able to measure and such a God

[00:14:50] is equivalent to not having a God at all as far as I can see now are you do you fall in the category of a materialist in

[00:14:56] the sense that you don’t believe in the supernatural or do you like us don’t look at our word I never use this belief

[00:15:03] okay leave as I say things are either likely or unlikely I don’t choose to believe anything I asked on the basis of

[00:15:11] evidence is something likely or unlikely and then I could do tests to make it besides whether it’s more unlikely or

[00:15:17] less likely but but aren’t there some things that are very difficult to test I know in your book you mentioned that

[00:15:22] there are certain things about the origin of the universe that don’t fall within the realm of your current view or

[00:15:28] your current theory because you know lots of things we don’t understand sure that’s before I’ll say again lack of

[00:15:35] understanding is not evidence for God it’s evidence of lack of understanding and tomorrow we’ll understand more than

[00:15:41] we did today this you know I don’t know if they’ll understand everything about the university that’s not a question but

[00:15:46] I can answer but I do know that we keep trying and so far we haven’t come across any brick walls and what

[00:15:52] discovered by trying to understand the universe it’s so amazing that I find it unfortunate that some people would feel

[00:15:59] that just in case it might it might challenge their faith they’d rather not know or learn what we’ve learned it’s

[00:16:05] it’s kind of sad yes and I you know to be honest I would agree with you I think anybody who closes their mind really

[00:16:13] from a Christian perspective if if the Bible is true and Christ said then you

[00:16:19] will know the truth and the truth will set you free ultimately we have to conclude that truth is premier and if God is real then

[00:16:25] you would have no problem in pursuing truth because it should end at God if there was one slight bit of evidence you

[00:16:31] know if tonight I looked up at the stars and they rearranged themselves in ancient Aramaic to say I’m here I might

[00:16:36] begin to wonder well well I’ll pray that that happens but you know so so when you

[00:16:44] come down to on the perspective of certain things are more probable and other things are less probable your view

[00:16:52] is that the origin of the universe is purely naturalistic there’s no

[00:16:57] ultimately week.we evidence of anything else when you say is yeah what I’m saying is can we understand everything

[00:17:03] we see without invoking anything supernatural and so far the answer is yes so why invoke this extra incredible

[00:17:10] hypothesis as Carl Sagan once said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

[00:17:17] and why why make this incredible extraordinary claim when it’s not necessary and and do you still leave

[00:17:25] room for God because you know some people will say they’ll say look it I believe everything that you know science

[00:17:31] is predicting here including what Lawrence Krauss has to say but but I believe that God did it all do you I

[00:17:39] mean look there are religious scientists oh yeah people but people are perfectly capable of holding two completely

[00:17:44] incompatible notions in their head at one time it’s just the way we’re built as human beings so there are scientists

[00:17:49] who decide that you know sir some reason the cosmos they see as they see it the beauty of the cosmos for them points to

[00:17:57] some divine creator and they usually they’re people who were deep you pick the religion but deep Christians in this

[00:18:03] case from the time they were children because we do the unfortunate thing of exposing children to religion which I

[00:18:11] find very unfortunate because these concepts are very very subtle and deep and we tend to brainwash our children

[00:18:18] it’s very hard to get rid of that brainwashing when you get older so what it is it is very interesting let me let

[00:18:26] me use that word to find that the children of Christians tend to believe in Christianity the children of Muslims

[00:18:32] tend to be achieved in Islam the children of Jews tend to tend to accept athletes believe in Judaism that’s a

[00:18:40] little telling isn’t it it tells us that what we’re doing is we’re we’re we’re essentially brainwashing our children

[00:18:46] and I think I’d like to have children these concepts of God and creation and universe and and the subtle issues like

[00:18:52] that are really ones that a three and four year old kid cannot assimilate and I find it amazing

[00:18:59] that we even some sort of tolerate that in our society there’s a wonderful picture that my friend Richard Dawkins

[00:19:05] one showed up never on the cover of a newspaper look it sounds very nice it was Christmastime and it had four

[00:19:11] children together and they were playing together and it said here’s one Muslim child here’s one Jewish child here’s

[00:19:17] here’s a Christian child and here’s a Hindu child and and they oh how nice but then what is it what is a Christian

[00:19:23] child mean we could have said here’s a neoconservative child here’s a liberal child these are concepts that the

[00:19:29] children who were aged three and four have no concept about and to label them by the by the religion of their parents

[00:19:36] is to is to ultimately do them a disservice sure and I would agree with that too I I mean I would compare that

[00:19:42] to infant baptism in the sense that the child has not made any choice for themselves and why would you do that

[00:19:47] that does make it I think I think we need to let children we need to educate children and let them make a choice and

[00:19:53] some of I educate I mean incursion the question one of the things one of the problems that I really learned from my

[00:20:00] particular makes religion lesson oculus then I might have once thought is and I

[00:20:05] learned it because a movie that well number ways because my book universe of nothing and I get a lot of letters but

[00:20:11] also movie that Richard Dawkins and I were in called the unbelievers I get letters from people all around the

[00:20:17] country every day who tell me why it’s thank you for that because I’m in

[00:20:22] the small town in the middle of wherever and I I feel I’m made to feel like a bad

[00:20:28] person simply because I question the existence of God like that’s a bad thing to do

[00:20:33] and moreover I feel totally alone and instead we should realize that that there are there are that they shouldn’t

[00:20:41] feel alone and they shouldn’t feel like they’re bad people for questioning we job yeah well and children to question

[00:20:47] everything yes and I endorse this party you should be aware of there was a study done by psychologists recently dr.

[00:20:54] Krauss listen let’s pause right there might might we’re coming up on a break here this is dr. Krauss that sounds like

[00:21:00] a really interesting thing I want to pick up with that when we get back from the break we’re coming up on a break here and dr. Krauss is about to share a

[00:21:06] study that was done and I love here in different people’s perspectives and you know not all Christians are like this

[00:21:12] but I like to put myself out there and have a dialogue with people and see where the conversation goes so my guest

[00:21:19] today is dr. Lawrence Krauss he’s a renowned physicist with incredible credentials so we’re privileged to have

[00:21:26] him on the show today stay with us we’re going to continue this discussion we’re going to be right back [Music]

[00:21:38] hi this is Kevin Conover will you please donate to educate for life so we can

[00:21:43] share the truth of God’s Word with kids in public schools you can donate online at donate to EFL 0

[00:21:49] RG the Bible used to be read in public schools on a regular basis prior to the 1960s but today most kids are completely

[00:21:57] clueless when it comes to the content and the historical and scientific accuracy of the Bible please help us by

[00:22:03] donating online at donate to EF l oo RG hi this is Jason hall president of team

[00:22:09] home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Kahn over for

[00:22:15] the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:22:20] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of our faith it’s

[00:22:26] our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn

[00:22:32] to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you

[00:22:38] Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans hi I’m Marisa Conover and I would

[00:22:44] love to help you buy or sell your home I’ve worked as a realtor for more than 13 years and as a San Diego native my

[00:22:52] passion and experience will help make your move as peaceful as can be call me at six one nine two five one one

[00:23:00] five seven seven that’s six one nine two five one 1577 or visit Conover homes.com

[00:23:09] this is throughout all ages ministry with Jo and Stacy if you would like to equip me to share the gospel with

[00:23:15] confident in a physical and effective way we would like to teach you through the proclamation of the gospel whether

[00:23:21] you’re the skeptic God who created you said known to you so that you are without

[00:23:26] excuse one-on-one evangelism how do you think you can get to heaven never really talked about it but I’ve always thought

[00:23:32] of you know doing good boy information go throughout all ages calm like us on Facebook or visit us at YouTube and

[00:23:37] throughout all ages

[00:23:43] thanks for tuning in to educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is joined I advocate for life o RG I’ve

[00:23:50] got an online curriculum you can check out if you’re interested in learning more about God and the Bible and Christianity and I’d love to have you

[00:23:57] take a look at that you can also pick up a recording of all kinds of interviews I’ve got interviews with former Muslims

[00:24:03] Buddhists atheists not too long ago I entered interviewed dr. james tour the organic synthetic chemist he’s ranked as

[00:24:09] one of the top 50 scientists in the world and very very interesting interview and today I have a very also

[00:24:16] very credentialed and renowned scientist on the show today his name is dr. Lawrence Krauss and for

[00:24:22] those of you just tuning in you may be surprised that he’s an atheist here we are on a Christian show and I’m I have an atheist guest but I often ask a

[00:24:31] theist to join either my Sunday School class or to come to my class at school and teach my students and this is

[00:24:36] because I believe that ultimately the truth has nothing to fear and as long as

[00:24:41] we keep our minds open and clear thinking the Bible says test all things hold fast to what is true and so we have nothing

[00:24:48] to fear with talk with talking to other people and if if there’s something that pops up that challenges our faith well

[00:24:54] then so be it let’s take the time to look into the evidence and and pursue

[00:24:59] the truth at all costs so thanks dr. Krauss for being here you were saying that a study you in the last

[00:25:04] segment you ended on you were going to reference a study can you tell us about that study that was done by a group of

[00:25:10] psychologists said on Canadian American University kids and adults and and and

[00:25:15] it was testing examining trust issues and among that group among its amazing

[00:25:22] that the least trusted people were atheists well actually they were on par with rapist Wow and it is amazing that

[00:25:29] how religion has user morality so that you know in England Richard Dawkins

[00:25:35] foundation did a study too it turned out in fact now in fact I would just learned yesterday that in England now seven out

[00:25:41] of ten young people between the ages of 1824 claimed to have no religion but but

[00:25:47] the Church of England those people who claimed they were the few people and it’s getting less every year which I happen to think is a good thing but the

[00:25:54] people who claimed they were Christian this what Richards foundation is ask them about the questions of Christianity

[00:26:00] do you believe in transubstantiation to believe in the virgin birth to believe in this and that and then people didn’t

[00:26:05] believe in any of that but they said why were you Christians and they said we like to think of ourselves as good people because in our society we tell

[00:26:12] people that if you if you don’t have religion you’re not a good person and I find that so unsettling because there

[00:26:18] are many many people in small towns as I say around the country who question their religion and they feel like bad

[00:26:24] people because of it and moreover other people make them feel like bad people and I think that is really unfortunate

[00:26:31] because as I said before we should be encouraging everyone especially children to question and I think nothing is

[00:26:37] sacred and by that I mean nothing is above questioning well you know yeah it may come as a surprise to you or our

[00:26:44] listeners but I happen to agree with that because I believe if somebody’s telling you not to question that’s a red

[00:26:49] flag and you should be careful because you could be involved in a cult and a

[00:26:55] group that’s trying to control you and ultimately we know there are many stories of cults doing very bad things well I agree and I came to think I mean

[00:27:03] I think look I laud everything you say and that’s why I agreed to be on the program to have a chat with you but but

[00:27:09] I also have to say in some ways I think Christianity is a very successful called well I

[00:27:15] I know churches that I feel very uncomfortable in and so but I happen to I do disagree with you of course on the

[00:27:22] Bible and so forth I believe the Bible teaches truth and I wanted to ask you

[00:27:27] that why do you believe that well I believe that specifically because I set

[00:27:32] out a long time ago in high school to find out what in the world is going on because I was at my school and and I had

[00:27:38] a Muslim friend I had a Jehovah’s Witness friend I had other friends that said they didn’t believe anything and I

[00:27:43] was looking at myself going what in the world who is right here because I don’t want to believe anything that’s false

[00:27:49] and my parents always taught me hey believe what’s true and so when I began

[00:27:54] to explore things for me I came to the conclusion that the Bible is true I looked at the historical record I looked

[00:28:00] at a lot of those things in question yes my parents were Christians yes did you go to church of the young person I did

[00:28:06] absolutely yes oh yeah okay I mean no you think that impacted on your ultimate decision well you know what’s

[00:28:13] interesting is that like you said our country is actually losing Christianity

[00:28:19] I would say so we’re like all countries not just Christianity but religion general yeah so so there’s me in all the

[00:28:26] first world yes what what’s interesting to me is that despite all the so I have

[00:28:31] friends that have walked away from God and they were raised in a Christian family so I don’t know if our culture is

[00:28:37] actually in a position where it’s indoctrinating kids as much anymore so meaning people aren’t Christian just

[00:28:43] because if they are Christian they have a lot of people have good reasons why they are Christian and you have people

[00:28:48] like I think if you go to large parts of this country there’s not even a choice if you go to large parts of the American

[00:28:54] South with the Southern Baptists yeah there’s no choice you can’t go off and not be Christian yeah well it’s an I

[00:28:59] it’s a non thinking Christianity in a way which I don’t think is a good thing but you have people other people like

[00:29:06] you’re you know Francis Collins yeah and dr. James tour and these guys are

[00:29:12] extremely scientific scientifically minded and yet believe in God and so and

[00:29:18] I’ve talked about I think I think by the way III admire Francis’s working in

[00:29:25] genetics yeah I think I think his theology is I look at his book it’s just

[00:29:32] plain silly yeah I you know I happen to disagree with his position his his theology but but regardless what’s

[00:29:39] interesting to me is that you have people that are science where you entered that believe in God you have people that aren’t well what about you

[00:29:45] what was your history where did you did you grow up in a Christian family or did you what were your parents like I had

[00:29:51] family it was Jewish and and you know what did the High Holidays and I was bar

[00:29:58] Mitzvahed and and I read I read the Bible and the Koran and many things when I was younger I read everything to first

[00:30:03] approximation and and I wanted it to be true and I really did when I was a kid I wanted this all to be true and then what

[00:30:09] happened is it just was it wasn’t it there wasn’t an epiphany or anything to use a Christian to him it was just like

[00:30:16] Santa Claus you know as I grew up that but you know I began to realize these stories were just stories and then they

[00:30:21] just they just didn’t quit correspond to reality that correspond with the reality that I that I had

[00:30:27] become to learn about and and they just seemed practically silly and and I think if you can I can ask you a question

[00:30:33] about that though dr. Krauss you know being Jewish in all the Old Testament

[00:30:39] there are I’ve interviewed archaeologists on this show and there are thousands of finds that actually

[00:30:45] support a lot of the stories that are in the Bible like Hezekiah has tunnel they have the tunnel they have the Siloam tunnel inscription they have the Senate

[00:30:52] Cara prism they’ve got all these things that are it’s not like the Book of Mormon with the Book of Mormon and I have Mormon friends three the Book of

[00:30:58] Mormon is full of stuff which is Dora cake incredibly inconsistent they are offered no no first of all it’s a story

[00:31:05] so right so let’s say there’s some parts of it the story that are historically accurate that’s fine but attributing it

[00:31:11] to God is what you’re doing is attributing that they’re sort of mythological leanings of the people of

[00:31:18] the time to blame God so so the fact that that some of the you know these

[00:31:23] some of the places may exist is not evidence of God it’s evidence that not all the Bible is wrong but they’re part

[00:31:28] of the Bible for example the fact that camel as you probably know recently the fact that there are references to camels

[00:31:35] but it’s now known that there were no camels at the time of Abraham so there are large parts of the Bible that are

[00:31:41] also known to be just because you know they were transcribed as oral history

[00:31:47] for a long time and you know it was I do that all history’s change over time yeah

[00:31:52] I mean that would be a very long discussion but what well so where were you when you were in high school then he

[00:31:59] went to college at what point did you begin to say hey you know I don’t I’m

[00:32:04] I’m thinking this is not true and dr. Krauss I’m sorry I’m wrong the same time

[00:32:10] as I said I get maybe even younger as I gave up Santa Claus even so dr. Krauss

[00:32:15] we’re coming up on a break here real quick but I want to pick up there stay with us my my guest today is dr.

[00:32:22] Lawrence Krauss from Arizona State University he is a physicist and author of numerous publications and books and

[00:32:31] it’s worth your time to stay and listen and hear what he has to share we’re going to be right back

[00:32:38] hi this is Jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one

[00:32:43] lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Kahn over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and

[00:32:49] my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and

[00:32:54] passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin

[00:33:01] and his show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through

[00:33:06] Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you Kevin from the hall family and team Home

[00:33:12] Loans we would like to teach you through

[00:33:23] the proclamation of the gospel how do

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[00:34:41] [Music]

[00:34:48] welcome to educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover please check us out on YouTube dr. Krauss is not in studio

[00:34:54] with me here today but you can see me if you’d like to my a beautiful haircut

[00:35:00] just a shaved head here I’m losing all my hair and you can also check us out on

[00:35:05] podcast please there’s all kinds of amazing interviews on there I just got finished interviewing Denice Schick

[00:35:11] whose father told her that he wanted to be a woman at age 9 she was 9 years old when he told her that and he became

[00:35:17] transgendered she has a lot to share on the transgender issue and what’s happening there my guest today is dr.

[00:35:23] Lawrence Krauss he is a physicist and he’s the author of a universe from nothing as well as the greatest story

[00:35:30] ever told so far which has a subtitle why are we here and dr. Krauss there’s

[00:35:37] two questions I have here so your book says why are we here now do you do you

[00:35:43] answer how we got here do you attempt to answer the question of why are we here or is the answer I mean what question

[00:35:50] okay it’s a meaningless in the sense that it’s on unanswerable I couldn’t presume the answer what is why I need

[00:35:56] you means there’s some purpose yeah you can’t presume what if there is no purpose hmm ask the question is there a

[00:36:03] purpose or is there any evidence of purpose before why even makes sense when I ask you know why is why is my heart

[00:36:10] pumping I don’t think you know I know what I really mean is how does it pump and and and and and so I think we we

[00:36:18] automatically weigh the scales put our foot on the scales if you wish when we ask why questions what I wanted to point

[00:36:25] out as I did in the universe or nothing is that we can understand in principle

[00:36:31] based on physics we understand and other plausible physics how to get a universe of a hundred billion galaxies full of

[00:36:37] 100 each of which is 100 billion stars from no universe at all from no space no time and it sounds like you require that

[00:36:44] that’s physically impossible but it isn’t then in the new book what I do is not look at the large-scale structure of

[00:36:50] the universe but the small scales for a few years to try and understand the nature of elementary forces and I find

[00:36:55] as we now know that the we live in now this universe at this moment is very very different than the

[00:37:02] universe at early times and most of the characteristics of the universe are in

[00:37:08] any way that you might reasonably define accidental meaning they don’t have any significance and they could have been

[00:37:14] otherwise and when you look at that you see that there’s really no design that suggests the universe inevitably would

[00:37:21] have produced us and and we are very fortunate to be here and have I’m very fortunate to be having this conversation

[00:37:26] with you but to assume that there’s it’s incredible it’s be a height of solace ISM to argue that the whole universe was

[00:37:34] created so you and I could have this conversation now that that that brings up another point that’s a great segue a

[00:37:40] saw ups ISM is the idea that we create reality or that the that everything is

[00:37:45] centred around us versus otherwise Mike one of the questions I have for you was how does this this conclusion about

[00:37:53] reality right that God doesn’t exist as well as the universe could come from nothing what are the practical

[00:37:59] implications of something like this like and I’m sure this is a question that you probably don’t get asked very often but

[00:38:05] I’m just curious how this informs your views on for example social issues and

[00:38:11] these sorts of things we’ve got this it’s it’s it means that we make our own meaning and that we are very lucky I

[00:38:16] find it more precious to be live because of this amazing accident that allowed me

[00:38:21] and and through evolution to have a consciousness and an intelligence that can ask questions about the beginning of

[00:38:27] the universe and the end of time so how do you go and sit more precious so how do you answer the question I share a

[00:38:33] common humanity with everyone knowing that we all share the same DNA and that these these petty exclusiveness either

[00:38:39] race color or creed that are really really artificial ones but but what it

[00:38:46] does for me for social excuses to say that we have to use logic common sense

[00:38:51] rationality to try and address the problems that we face as human beings and moreover the challenges we place we

[00:38:58] face in the 21st century are not going to be solved for us by some deity global warming the environmental problems

[00:39:05] energy issues national security issues these are things these are problems that we in some sense created as human

[00:39:12] and we have to address them and we can’t wait around for someone else to solve those problems so what do you think that

[00:39:19] by and large if if religion was essentially gone from American culture meaning you know Christianity was

[00:39:26] essentially downplayed so much that it was essentially non it had no impact on

[00:39:31] a person’s decision-making processes as well as Islam or any other religion do you think that that would be an ideal

[00:39:37] scenario or do you think religion serves any purpose at all well right now

[00:39:42] clearly religious religion serves a social purpose it’s rarely iniquitous in societies it provides you know it’s over

[00:39:50] over time provided some cohesiveness some bonding some group identity and and

[00:39:55] those things are you know to deny that religion has done that it’d be silly because if it hadn’t done that it

[00:40:00] wouldn’t be so ubiquitous in all societies by the way not the same religion a thousand different religions each of which have a thousand different

[00:40:07] beliefs that are inconsistent with the other thousand and as we like to say you know an atheist is just you know you

[00:40:13] don’t you’re an atheist about all other thousand religions except Christianity and an atheist is just it doesn’t

[00:40:18] believe one more religion but but I think that the important thing is that

[00:40:23] that when we when we think about what

[00:40:29] religion does it has a social utility the question is could we get the same social utility without the fairytales

[00:40:36] and I like to think the answer is yes and I do think science can provide us much of that can provide us a sense of

[00:40:42] awe and Wonder and a sense of common humanity a sense of hope and a sense of

[00:40:50] that we can we can address the problems and and the hope that we can understand either worse better and the hope that we

[00:40:56] can make the world a better place tomorrow hmm absolutely well I think we have a lot of

[00:41:02] common ground despite our large differences so you basically were your parents atheistic or did they actually

[00:41:08] believe in the God of the Old Testament well I talked you know they weren’t deep believers I think they I think they

[00:41:14] didn’t really express things one way or another they did the things for the family and we did them and I don’t think

[00:41:19] we had those discussions my mother who’s now 95 has certainly evolved

[00:41:25] thinking and certainly become an atheist and and and but you know but we didn’t

[00:41:33] have what I would say would be deep religious discussions in my family I I

[00:41:39] read those things and read a lot of a commentary in both directions and prema-vilas conclusions myself which i

[00:41:46] think is a I appreciate the fact that my parents encouraged those activities in my part yeah I had a from a theist

[00:41:53] friend on the show and on the way out of the studio he told me that his seven-year-old son had just told him he believed in God are you how would you

[00:42:01] feel if one of your children ended up believing in God I think kids should be asked to do look I think what you want

[00:42:09] to do is get kids to ask questions and just think about why they think of things and try and learn so I’d ask why

[00:42:14] what evidence let’s let’s explore it let’s see where it goes let’s try and understand it I my goal isn’t to try and

[00:42:20] tell my kids what to believe but to encourage them to take for themselves that’s fantastic well I mean I love that

[00:42:27] I think that’s great and I think open dialog is so important if you’re just tuning in my guest today is dr. Lawrence

[00:42:33] Krauss and the reason I have them on the show is because I think open friendly civil dialogue is critically important

[00:42:38] to a healthy society and getting at the truth and I think that goes both ways I think that that that’s whether you’re a

[00:42:44] Christian and you’re you’re a committed Christian you’re a Muslim or you’re a you’re an atheist whatever your position

[00:42:50] is I think the best thing we can do is be willing to have conversations with those who disagree with us so none of us

[00:42:57] is all-knowing right so again my guest today is dr. Lawrence Krauss if you’d like to check out his website it’s Krauss KR aus s dot faculty dot asu.edu

[00:43:06] and he has all kinds of resources on there that you can check out as well as his books and other things very very

[00:43:13] much involved beyond the science world he is so we’re gonna be right back we

[00:43:19] have one more segment and we’ll we’ll finish this conversation off and and I hope you have a fantastic Saturday we’ll

[00:43:25] be right back for 36 years Fastlane kayaking has

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[00:43:59] landing marina across from SeaWorld six one nine two two two zero seven sixty-six hi this is Jason hall

[00:44:06] president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover

[00:44:12] for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:44:18] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of our faith it’s

[00:44:24] our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn

[00:44:30] to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you

[00:44:36] Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans hi I’m Marisa Conover and I would

[00:44:42] love to help you buy or sell your home I’ve worked as a realtor for more than 13 years and as a San Diego native my

[00:44:50] passion and experience will help make your move as peaceful as can be call me

[00:44:55] at six one nine two five one one five seven seven that’s six one nine two five

[00:45:02] one 1577 or visit Conover homes calm

[00:45:09] hi this is Kevin Conover will you please donate to educate for life so we can

[00:45:14] share the truth of God’s Word with kids in public schools you can donate online at donate to EFL

[00:45:20] 0rg the Bible used to be read in public schools on a regular basis prior to the

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[00:45:31] accuracy of the Bible please help us by donating online at donate to EF la RG

[00:45:39] [Applause] welcome to educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my web sites educate

[00:45:46] for life dot o-r-g my guest today is dr. Lawrence Krauss he’s a physicist at Arizona State University the author of

[00:45:53] universe from a universe from nothing as well as the greatest story ever told so far which has a subtitle why are we here

[00:46:00] and you can visit his web site Krauss KRA us s dot faculty asu.edu and dr.

[00:46:06] Krauss well what what is the origins projects obviously it has to do with the beginning of the universe but what are

[00:46:12] you working on behind the scenes right now as it pertains to origins and Arizona State and so forth oh really we

[00:46:18] look at everything the origins universe – the origins of violence and and and modern issues were at work organizing

[00:46:24] workshop right now in artificial intelligence and its implications for for weapons systems and national

[00:46:29] security in the future we were also having a big event at which will often be in Mexico on on issues of climate

[00:46:36] change in the environment and then we’re having our tenth anniversary where we’ll have a whole set of events on once again

[00:46:42] from cultural events on movies but also all the way to the origins of the universe and the origins of early modern

[00:46:47] humans and explore every fascinating thing that humanity is thinking about right now and try and bring all that to

[00:46:54] the public as well that’s great so you’re very involved socially beyond the science also yeah I tried missed quite a

[00:47:02] certain science and public policy and I just had a piece of New York Times today for example it touches on both now how

[00:47:08] do you deal with the issue of which I was talking about earlier but I wanted to get your view on the gender issue

[00:47:13] where somebody if somebody identifies as the opposite gender or another again

[00:47:20] yeah or another gender and what what write a workshop we read a very

[00:47:25] interesting meeting on that and that ASU and the origins project and there’s just overwhelming evidence of sex and gender

[00:47:31] are two different things that people and even people even the chromosomal basis

[00:47:36] of sex isn’t always manifested within the sex that’s associated with your with your chromosomes with your genes so

[00:47:42] there’s a whole there’s a whole from a biological perspective it is perfectly

[00:47:48] clear that people identify with a quote unquote sex which is different than they might chromosome ly

[00:47:55] have and there’s nothing there’s a spectrum of genders that people identify

[00:48:03] with sure and therefore someone who is portable may be called biologically a

[00:48:08] male from from one perspective another who identifies as a female and it becomes a female is as female as any

[00:48:14] other female and it’s it to deny the reality of that or claim in some disease

[00:48:20] is to demean uh people who who’s who who

[00:48:26] are just you know biologically doing what they’re with what their body is it

[00:48:31] tells and their brain and there and there and there they’re not only genes but they’re hormones tell them you know

[00:48:38] how to behave so there’s this real funny video and I’m the reason I’m asking you this is because I feel like it it

[00:48:44] there’s an intersection here between science and this perspective right so

[00:48:49] there’s a real funny video where a guy goes around saying if I told you I was a woman what would you say and and the

[00:48:56] people say hey yeah you’re a woman you can be you want to be a woman then he says what if I told you I was a Chinese woman he’s now he’s a white Caucasian

[00:49:01] guy and then he says what if I was I told you and he’s five nine he says what if I was a six-foot five Chinese woman

[00:49:07] would you allow that and people draw the line at six foot five and they said you can be a Chinese woman but you can’t be

[00:49:12] a six foot five Chinese woman come here tonight it’s funny but it’s creating artificial it’s creating artificial

[00:49:18] differentiations that are not true I mean if someone is objectively if you’re five feet you’re not six foot five but

[00:49:26] objectively there’s nothing you can tell someone who identifies as a woman to tell them that they’re not I mean I

[00:49:31] think that then you know that they can’t be a woman but it creates an artificial an artificial distinction that just

[00:49:38] isn’t there it’s funny but but it is unfortunately obfuscates reality and but

[00:49:45] I do think there are things you know for example I’ve spoken China and I and I really get upset when they talk about a

[00:49:50] you know a Chinese medicine and I say there’s no such thing as Chinese medicine the DNA of people is the same

[00:49:56] all throughout the world if Chinese medicine works it’s medicine and so I really I really don’t like artificial

[00:50:02] distinctions when they’re not appropriate and and so in what are your books you reference

[00:50:08] the possibility and and this has to do with we probably can’t really get into this because it’s too deep but you talk

[00:50:15] about symmetry and gauge symmetry and you talk about the fact that our universe potentially wouldn’t even exist

[00:50:21] if it weren’t for this we’re in a kind of a field and that the universe might

[00:50:27] be possibly an illusion does this figure with me a certain a delusion if the

[00:50:32] universe we see as an illusion it can you explain I had but it’s Sunita’s at an underlying level part of the laws the

[00:50:39] forces that we experience are really not before the forces we experience we only experience the way they are because what

[00:50:44] we see them in large range on large scales and microscopic scales are really quite different and the laws that govern

[00:50:51] the universe at microscopic scales are really quite different than the laws that we experience it and the structures

[00:50:56] that we see the mass of the particles in our body the Stars the galaxies only there because of some accidents on large

[00:51:02] scales that allow those things to exist better the fundamental scale they really those particles have no mass and and so

[00:51:09] so that’s what I mean an illusion just like if you were living on an ice crystal on a window you’d have this

[00:51:14] illusion that one direction was different than all the rest in in nature because they along the spine of the

[00:51:20] crystal everything would look different but it’s an accident of your circumstances if the crystal appointed

[00:51:25] another direction you think that direction was special so of course that direction is special in your crystal but

[00:51:31] it’s an accent of your circumstances and it has no significance other than the fact that you’re around to be able to

[00:51:37] see it now is that is that objectively quantifiable scientifically testable that what you just proposed get yeah

[00:51:44] it’s called it’s the very basis of things phenomena which we built a major Collider called the Large Hadron

[00:51:49] Collider to understand and that’s why I try and explain it in the book that’s fantastic okay well dr. Krauss

[00:51:56] it’s been a real a privilege and honor to have you on the show today I really appreciate it and I wish you all the

[00:52:01] best and thank you very much well thank you I enjoyed the discussion I hope you’re real isuzu and you take care ok

[00:52:09] thank you very much you too have a fantastic day and I know everybody out there enjoyed that conversation that’s

[00:52:16] dr. Krauss again if you’d like to whiz it visit his website his website is

[00:52:22] Crouse KRA USS faculty facu lty asu edu

[00:52:32] don’t just live in a bubble go out there and talk to different people and as a

[00:52:37] Christian I believe that the Word of God is the truth and that you can build your life upon it that it is reliable and but

[00:52:45] challenge yourself to not just believe but to know why you believe give a reason for the hope that lies within you

[00:52:51] test all things hold fast to that which is true to that which is good god bless you and we will see you next week and

[00:52:57] we’ll have another radio show for you my website is educate for life dot o-r-g thank you so much for joining us today

[00:53:03] bye-bye did you miss part of today’s program don’t worry work hon mitad to helping

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