Handcuffed to an Atheist Part 2 – Jordan Imbrey

[00:00:06] welcome back to educate for life I’m

[00:00:08] your host Kevin Conover and we just

[00:00:09] finished up with Michael Shermer

[00:00:10] and super fun just I’ve never had an

[00:00:14] opportunity to speak to him I know about

[00:00:16] him a lot and you know I refer to him

[00:00:19] quite a bit in my class as a skeptic and

[00:00:20] and that was a lot of fun

[00:00:22] and we’re gonna finish our program today

[00:00:24] with John John’s still here with me

[00:00:27] because I can’t get rid of him or

[00:00:28] handcuffed together and we also have the

[00:00:31] producer that’s been running this for us

[00:00:33] with BuzzFeed he’s the guy who made this

[00:00:36] all possible Jordan Jordan how do you

[00:00:39] see your last name Embry Embry Jordan

[00:00:41] okay and Jordans on the radio here with

[00:00:43] us and I thought it would be cool to

[00:00:44] interview him just because I think it’s

[00:00:47] a really crazy concept that were

[00:00:50] handcuffed here together two opposing

[00:00:52] viewpoints so I kind of just wanted to

[00:00:54] find out you know where you’re coming

[00:00:56] from on this as far as you know you’re

[00:00:58] with BuzzFeed I know you can’t speak for

[00:00:59] BuzzFeed but you’re with BuzzFeed and

[00:01:01] what do you think about filming this

[00:01:03] sort of thing like what are your

[00:01:04] thoughts on you know handcuffing people

[00:01:06] with two opposing viewpoints together so

[00:01:08] as far as I can remember so we we’ve

[00:01:09] done a quite a few handcuff videos yeah

[00:01:12] best friends exes and then also some of

[00:01:15] this opposing viewpoint stuff as far as

[00:01:17] I can recall the first person to do it

[00:01:19] was a producer named Chris lamb doing a

[00:01:21] liberal and conservative handcuff for 24

[00:01:23] hours I saw that one yeah and then we

[00:01:26] recently another producer named kee

[00:01:29] Williams did a video where she

[00:01:32] handcuffed a Satanist and a Christian

[00:01:36] together so having seen that video and

[00:01:39] it was very a very successful video I

[00:01:42] immediately became interested in doing

[00:01:45] an evolutionist and a creationist

[00:01:46] because for me that those perspectives

[00:01:50] are like the ones I’m most interested in

[00:01:52] like in just understanding more and also

[00:01:55] in trying to find common ground I

[00:01:59] personally believe that one of the

[00:02:01] biggest problems we’re having right now

[00:02:03] as a country is the inability to listen

[00:02:05] to each other and also empathize like I

[00:02:09] feel like people who are on the Left are

[00:02:13] often totally unsympathetic to people

[00:02:15] who are religious and people who are

[00:02:16] religious are often totally

[00:02:17] unsympathetic to people who aren’t

[00:02:19] and I think like any kind of content

[00:02:22] that I can make that reminds everybody

[00:02:23] that we’re all people and most people

[00:02:25] want good things for other people – is

[00:02:30] is a good thing and that’s what my goal

[00:02:33] is in doing this kind of video yeah I

[00:02:36] think that’s so cool that you that you

[00:02:39] have that concept in mind and and are

[00:02:41] doing that because I totally agree that

[00:02:43] a lot of times what happens is you have

[00:02:46] one person over here that hates the

[00:02:48] other person for because of their view

[00:02:49] and this person hates the other person

[00:02:50] because of their view and then you bring

[00:02:52] them together and and you find out hey

[00:02:54] you know like you said we’re all people

[00:02:55] and a lot of times we have the same

[00:02:57] goals and in mind we just have different

[00:02:59] ways that we think are gonna work to get

[00:03:01] there so that’s really cool

[00:03:03] John what do you think about that what

[00:03:04] do you think about the whole handcuff

[00:03:05] experience so far oh it’s uh it’s been a

[00:03:08] guess it’s been strange and I think it I

[00:03:11] think it is a good thing because I think

[00:03:13] anybody should have the not just the

[00:03:16] opportunity anybody should give

[00:03:18] themselves make themselves have the

[00:03:20] opportunity to hear out the other side

[00:03:23] you know I mean what is the rules of

[00:03:27] debates you know make sure that you

[00:03:29] present your opponent in a way that they

[00:03:31] would say yes that is my opinion oh

[00:03:34] that’s great and I love that too and

[00:03:37] that makes a lot of sense because a lot

[00:03:38] of times you end up arguing with

[00:03:40] somebody who doesn’t exist because yeah

[00:03:42] you don’t actually understand where

[00:03:43] they’re coming from and some skeptic

[00:03:45] nerd out there is gonna correct me and

[00:03:47] explain and say exactly what what that

[00:03:51] principle is I’m I’m constantly talking

[00:03:54] to an audience of nitpicky haters and

[00:03:58] it’s a little discouraging because you

[00:04:00] you get a lot of love you’re like really

[00:04:03] yeah yeah I think this is true they like

[00:04:04] ya preach your brother and I’m like I

[00:04:07] think this is true they like what do you

[00:04:08] mean by true what’s what’s your source

[00:04:11] what do you mean by what and yeah even

[00:04:13] though I complete even though like we’re

[00:04:15] agreed 100% they’re like mmm no that

[00:04:18] that’s not really the proper use of that

[00:04:20] term so that’s hilarious

[00:04:22] so so working for BuzzFeed Jordan do you

[00:04:27] guys just come up with your own videos

[00:04:29] that you’re like I think this is gonna

[00:04:31] work or how does that how does that work

[00:04:32] there’s a variety of ways we come up

[00:04:34] with videos there’s brainstorming

[00:04:36] together there’s working from videos

[00:04:39] that already exist and using those as

[00:04:42] examples and then there’s also just

[00:04:43] novel ideas that we come up with

[00:04:45] ourselves if you go rogue like

[00:04:48] completely just I’m I got my own crazy

[00:04:50] brand new strange little thing how much

[00:04:53] of a block is I assumed you would get a

[00:04:55] smaller budget for the rogue stuff like

[00:04:57] guys I got a wacky idea I have no idea

[00:04:59] if it’s gonna work I mean we we operate

[00:05:01] on pretty small budgets for pretty much

[00:05:03] everything so that’s just kind of that’s

[00:05:05] normal it doesn’t matter whether it’s

[00:05:07] rogue or not yeah I can’t get into the

[00:05:10] specifics on that stuff no okay sure and

[00:05:12] then I was gonna ask you so so far what

[00:05:16] you’ve seen out of the out of the

[00:05:18] handcuff scenarios that you’ve you’ve

[00:05:20] seen others put together and maybe

[00:05:22] yourself put together what what have you

[00:05:25] liked the most so far and what do you

[00:05:27] feel like wow that that is I deal with

[00:05:29] what I was looking for I mean I think

[00:05:32] the best one for me was there’s two that

[00:05:35] I like the best one was the Satanist and

[00:05:37] Christian one that key did and the other

[00:05:39] was the exes those are my two favorite

[00:05:41] which the exes I think was done by Kelly

[00:05:42] diamond and those two videos I think

[00:05:49] like it’s sort of a question of like for

[00:05:51] me any videos about like the stakes in

[00:05:53] the drama and the emotional journey and

[00:05:56] so the exes video has natural stakes and

[00:05:59] drama because it’s two people who have

[00:06:01] some reason they stopped seeing each

[00:06:03] other so there’s not probably a reason

[00:06:04] something they don’t like about each

[00:06:05] other and then we see we see both them

[00:06:08] kind of coming back together and

[00:06:10] enjoying each other’s company in spite

[00:06:12] of having broken up but we also see them

[00:06:15] relive some of their frustrations with

[00:06:17] each other and for me content is most

[00:06:20] interesting when it’s nuanced in human

[00:06:22] and not like giving me a clear this is

[00:06:25] what you should take away and instead

[00:06:27] it’s just like here is what it is to be

[00:06:29] a human being

[00:06:29] hmm and similarly the Satanist and

[00:06:32] Christian video they fundamentally

[00:06:36] disagree but you can see that they like

[00:06:37] each other and there’s just this

[00:06:39] human-like connection and they’re both

[00:06:41] kind people and they you know they they

[00:06:44] rib each other and they tease each other

[00:06:46] like you look in their eyes and you’re

[00:06:48] like these two people like each other my

[00:06:50] question is the exes they didn’t get

[00:06:52] back together did they as far as I know

[00:06:56] they did not get back together

[00:06:58] the video has an ambiguous moment within

[00:07:00] it which I’ll let you check out because

[00:07:04] I was gonna say if you if you’re gonna

[00:07:05] continue if you make another exes video

[00:07:08] the only in my mind the only motivation

[00:07:11] to do to keep doing them is until you

[00:07:14] get that couple that reunites once you

[00:07:18] get that then it’s on done so I have an

[00:07:20] anecdote related to that I like two

[00:07:22] years ago is doing videos called exes

[00:07:23] relived their first kiss and so I just

[00:07:26] have them like talk through how their

[00:07:27] first kiss went down try to remember it

[00:07:29] try to do it again and just see like if

[00:07:31] any sparseness viewer that is so

[00:07:33] BuzzFeed and so that’s too funny this

[00:07:37] this couple had this amazing thing where

[00:07:40] they like were mad at each other and

[00:07:42] then they reconnected and then they were

[00:07:45] like we’re gonna go home together and I

[00:07:46] was like holy I just lucked in the

[00:07:48] best video ever made

[00:07:50] you can’t cuss on Christian radio okay

[00:07:52] okay wow I was like wow that’s the

[00:08:00] that’s the best video I’ve ever made and

[00:08:03] then you were like I’m like Oh making a

[00:08:06] difference in the world right yeah well

[00:08:08] I don’t know I mean their lives maybe

[00:08:10] and then but then when I sent the video

[00:08:13] was finished I was sending it out to a

[00:08:15] research department for the last few

[00:08:16] checks and one guy was suspicious he

[00:08:19] didn’t buy it

[00:08:20] he looks them up and we find out that

[00:08:21] their YouTube pranksters do these fake

[00:08:25] engagement videos they’re not even

[00:08:26] dating like they never dated you guys

[00:08:30] caught it I’m sad we caught it to be

[00:08:32] honest I would rather put the video yeah

[00:08:34] that took all the meaning out of his

[00:08:35] life right there but then they would

[00:08:38] have been like ah we got you Buzzbee

[00:08:40] yeah no they definitely were hoping to

[00:08:41] like be like we caught the big fish so

[00:08:44] what happened so did you guys just take

[00:08:45] it down yeah we just never did anything

[00:08:47] else with it I still have the footage I

[00:08:50] have been wanting to prank them back for

[00:08:52] years but I haven’t thought of a good

[00:08:54] enough prank that didn’t just make me

[00:08:56] look like a sore loser oh yeah we do

[00:08:58] yeah well I

[00:08:59] I gotta make sure in fashion to make I’m

[00:09:01] actually an evolutionist that’s right

[00:09:09] that’s hilarious

[00:09:10] well we’re coming up on a break we’re

[00:09:11] gonna have a little bit more time with

[00:09:13] Jordan and John here and we’re actually

[00:09:17] going to be after the program here we’re

[00:09:20] gonna be taking the handcuffs off right

[00:09:22] yeah that’s an exciting moment but

[00:09:24] you’re gonna have to go over to the

[00:09:25] BuzzFeed video in order to check that

[00:09:26] out we’re not gonna do that on my

[00:09:28] program here but not college humor yeah

[00:09:31] in the meantime here we go so we’ll be

[00:09:34] right back stay with us hi this is Kevin

[00:09:44] Conover will you please donate to

[00:09:46] educate for life so we can share the

[00:09:47] truth of God’s Word with kids in public

[00:09:49] schools

[00:09:50] you can donate online at donate to EFL

[00:09:53] 0rg the Bible used to be read in public

[00:09:56] schools on a regular basis prior to the

[00:09:58] 1960s but today most kids are completely

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[00:10:14] okay thanks for being back with us today

[00:10:16] I’m your host Kevin Conover my web sites

[00:10:18] educate for life dot o-r-g and you know

[00:10:22] I know that there’s a lot of people that

[00:10:23] listen to this station that have no idea

[00:10:24] what BuzzFeed is they’re like what

[00:10:26] BuzzFeed what is that right and so

[00:10:29] Jordan what’s the website just BuzzFeed

[00:10:32] calm right

[00:10:33] yeah BuzzFeed calm or youtube.com slash

[00:10:35] BuzzFeed video those are websites on the

[00:10:38] Internet is a medium communication

[00:10:41] Justin I was I was giving out a thumb

[00:10:44] drive to a guy the other day and he goes

[00:10:46] hey now what do I do oh there’s a lot of

[00:10:51] old people at my church so so and John

[00:10:54] tell tell our listeners your website

[00:10:55] again in case I would say just go to

[00:10:58] youtube.com slash skeptically pwned pwnd

[00:11:01] I actually have a website I actually

[00:11:03] have you know WW skeptically pwned calm

[00:11:07] but here’s the deal I I did a video a

[00:11:10] couple years ago it’s it’s knocking on

[00:11:12] like 3.5 million hits like eleven

[00:11:16] thousand comments tell them what they

[00:11:18] are you gonna tell them what the video

[00:11:19] is good but first first the anecdote I

[00:11:21] had a super popular video 3.5 million

[00:11:23] hits 11 thousand comments one person one

[00:11:27] person messaged me and said hey did you

[00:11:30] know your website’s down

[00:11:32] nobody websites are a dead dead dead

[00:11:35] thing nobody goes to websites that’s

[00:11:37] what I have your depressor right here I

[00:11:38] just spent money on rebuilding my

[00:11:40] website on a website I did throw up a

[00:11:43] wordpress that points to your Twitter

[00:11:45] and YouTube page okay well unless your

[00:11:48] bugs gonna have to get you as a

[00:11:49] consultant right yeah but I know we did

[00:11:52] a video and so weirdest thing it’s the

[00:11:54] most popular thing I’ve ever done it’s

[00:11:56] is a 15 minute long video explaining in

[00:12:01] detail why someone else is wrong about

[00:12:05] archery sounds like a skeptical thing to

[00:12:07] do it is a skeptical thing to do but

[00:12:09] it’s a very asinine and very nice

[00:12:11] skeptical thing that I thought okay the

[00:12:14] writer has a lot of friends I got a

[00:12:16] decent amount of subscribers this was

[00:12:17] this was the archery guy right yeah so

[00:12:19] 15 minute archery explainer is your

[00:12:22] biggest video yeah have you followed it

[00:12:24] up have you done any swordplay explain

[00:12:26] see and I should I should really do that

[00:12:28] whole well what’s working today fellas

[00:12:30] but really the big lesson I walked away

[00:12:32] from is nobody knows anything

[00:12:34] amen is that your experience do both

[00:12:39] yeah just try anything see what sticks

[00:12:42] it’s like that that ranty video we

[00:12:43] always see from what is that

[00:12:46] rockstars name Zappa Frank Zappa he’s

[00:12:51] always like man back in the old day you

[00:12:52] walked in the old guy with a suit and

[00:12:54] tie he didn’t know what he was talking

[00:12:56] about but he knew it he’s like I have no

[00:12:57] idea what the kids like but let’s throw

[00:12:59] some money on it let’s see what works

[00:13:00] and now you get the cool dude with the

[00:13:02] ponytail thinks he understands what

[00:13:04] everybody wants and so they try and fit

[00:13:06] you in this bottle man and the business

[00:13:08] crashes they’re like but we read the

[00:13:10] demographics we know what the kids like

[00:13:11] and that’s just my little he’s got the

[00:13:14] ponytail anymore now everyone’s got

[00:13:15] shaved sides of their heads I don’t know

[00:13:16] I’m trying to avoid going with a man bun

[00:13:18] I’m I won’t go man bun that’s crazy I

[00:13:22] can’t go man bun or ponytail or anything

[00:13:24] that’s us progressing but hey so Jordan

[00:13:27] what’s what’s next on the are you

[00:13:28] allowed to share what some of the ideas

[00:13:30] running through your head about what

[00:13:31] you’re gonna do next what are you gonna

[00:13:32] do more handcuffed videos or are those

[00:13:34] uh out of vogue no there’s certainly in

[00:13:37] vogue I might do more

[00:13:38] well forget BuzzFeed for a moment what

[00:13:40] what do you do Jordan what’s your

[00:13:43] ambition what’s your I got a script for

[00:13:46] a pilot kind of thing yeah I’m a

[00:13:48] screenwriter and a director I write like

[00:13:51] I’m one of run shows a great kind of

[00:13:55] fantasy sci-fi and drama D oh so who’s

[00:13:58] your who’s your favorite fantasy author

[00:13:59] I actually don’t read much oh you don’t

[00:14:02] okay but I mean like Game of Thrones

[00:14:03] would be my biggest inspiration as a

[00:14:05] show I don’t read some of the books or

[00:14:09] no I’ve read parts of books I haven’t

[00:14:11] read any of the books but the the script

[00:14:14] I’m working on right now is a like

[00:14:16] fantasy about humans going extinct and

[00:14:20] animals evolving to semi human form and

[00:14:23] human level intelligence and they

[00:14:25] worship evolution in the same way people

[00:14:27] in our world worship Christianity it’s

[00:14:30] like a religion to them whoa that I

[00:14:32] would I would read that book I actually

[00:14:34] thought about a book similar to that I

[00:14:36] was going to call it the evolutionist

[00:14:38] but it was going to have to do with

[00:14:40] evolution and all that stuff that’s cool

[00:14:42] so how are you have you made any

[00:14:44] progress on that or is it yeah I have a

[00:14:46] finished pilot and some cover art and

[00:14:50] you know I send it around here and there

[00:14:51] but uh yeah

[00:14:53] very cool very cool and what about you

[00:14:55] John what’s what’s next on do you have

[00:14:57] any vision for what’s gonna happen next

[00:14:59] well I’m I’m working with the the

[00:15:02] shermanator Michael Shermer I’m doing

[00:15:04] videos for skeptic comm and I’m doing my

[00:15:07] own goofy webseries but right now I’m

[00:15:09] trying to finish a pilot which we shot

[00:15:11] last year and we’re trying to finish it

[00:15:12] up and it is a pilot it’s a goofy wacky

[00:15:15] little sitcom about two atheists who

[00:15:19] happen to work in the corporate offices

[00:15:21] of not Hobby Lobby

[00:15:24] wink wink intent and they’re just a

[00:15:26] couple burnout atheists and they don’t

[00:15:28] happen to care that they work at a

[00:15:29] Christian corporation and yeah that’s

[00:15:32] about it whacking is ensues yeah that

[00:15:35] sounds like you could set up some some

[00:15:37] of funny scenarios in there that very

[00:15:38] well cool guys work we’re almost out of

[00:15:42] time here any last words before you take

[00:15:44] these handcuffs off how do you guys like

[00:15:47] each other now well I think we liked

[00:15:49] each other kind of from the get-go like

[00:15:51] Kevin’s a nice easily to communicate

[00:15:55] with guy and a lot of what we disagree

[00:15:58] on is definitely like fundamental like

[00:16:01] you know cuz it’s you know the I’m sure

[00:16:04] a douchey self-help coach has said in

[00:16:07] the past you know you don’t trip over a

[00:16:09] tree it’s little things it’s like little

[00:16:11] little definitions little uh you know

[00:16:14] philosophical differences that can spin

[00:16:18] your worldview in completely different

[00:16:21] opposing ways yeah yeah you know I I’ve

[00:16:24] really enjoyed this whole time I think

[00:16:25] John is a great guy really nice easy too

[00:16:28] easy to hang around with you know not

[00:16:30] everybody’s like that some people uh

[00:16:31] they really can be antagonistic but he’s

[00:16:35] been really generous and I we had a

[00:16:38] really kind of personal conversation

[00:16:41] before we went to went to bed last night

[00:16:43] and we other talking which was kind of

[00:16:46] weird but but it was cool because for me

[00:16:49] it really you know he shared a lot of

[00:16:52] his humanity with me and

[00:16:53] some of the struggles in life and I got

[00:16:55] to do the same with him and and so you

[00:16:57] know I think your goal was achieved

[00:16:59] Jordan in that so in that I’ve never

[00:17:06] spent this much time with an atheist and

[00:17:09] and I am sad to say but I have an

[00:17:11] atheist brother-in-law and and I’ve

[00:17:14] never spent 24 hours with him and I’ve

[00:17:17] I’ve not you know my wife and I spent a

[00:17:19] lot of time together but I’ve been very

[00:17:21] close to John for a long time and so it

[00:17:26] actually forces you to kind of dig below

[00:17:28] the surface like you can’t stay surface

[00:17:30] see I guess you could but it may it

[00:17:35] gives you the opportunity to dig below

[00:17:36] the surface you know and you get to know

[00:17:38] a person in a deeper way and I think I

[00:17:40] mean ah I think that’s one area where we

[00:17:43] can definitely agree is that we need to

[00:17:47] take time to get to know people and see

[00:17:49] where they’re at and where they’re

[00:17:50] coming from and really just have

[00:17:52] sympathy and compassion for everybody

[00:17:54] it’s not it’s not about winning an

[00:17:57] argument it’s really about okay hey how

[00:17:59] can I meet this person where they’re at

[00:18:01] and you know be a positive influence in

[00:18:03] in their life and those around us I

[00:18:05] think I told Kevin if any of my

[00:18:08] ex-girlfriends were handcuffed to him he

[00:18:10] wouldn’t have made it

[00:18:11] he wasn’t they would have they would

[00:18:14] have killed me in my when I was 13 I had

[00:18:19] my bar mitzvah and I have a very atheist

[00:18:23] aunt and she like sort of got on a

[00:18:26] pulpit in front of the the rest of my

[00:18:28] family including the other side of the

[00:18:30] family and yeah I feel about how wrong

[00:18:31] she thought it was to indoctrinate a

[00:18:33] thirteen-year-old into a religion and

[00:18:35] that was my moment of awakening where I

[00:18:38] sort of started to question things and I

[00:18:40] mean I was already kind of questioning

[00:18:41] but I was like yeah she’s gonna write

[00:18:42] and so I I became pretty agnostic I mean

[00:18:46] I’d say I’m like an atheist leaning

[00:18:48] agnostic where I’m like closer to a

[00:18:49] theist but I’m somewhere in between sure

[00:18:51] and in high school I was very adamantly

[00:18:53] like you know sort of like her about it

[00:18:56] and I actually made a Facebook group

[00:18:58] that was like against religion and stuff

[00:19:01] and like invited everyone I knew to it

[00:19:03] just to like ruffle feathers and like

[00:19:05] girls I had a crush on I’ve learned

[00:19:07] we’re Christian and completely offended

[00:19:09] by my group and then like a bunch of my

[00:19:11] best friends are also Christian because

[00:19:12] I grew up in North Carolina where it’s a

[00:19:14] pretty Christian place and you know I’d

[00:19:16] fight with them I don’t we’d argue like

[00:19:17] crazy and then eventually like we just

[00:19:20] learned to accept each other and you

[00:19:21] know I gave up kind of on converting

[00:19:23] them to some extent yeah I still you

[00:19:25] know in some ways would like to convert

[00:19:27] people who believe in religion toward

[00:19:29] you know science a little more but yeah

[00:19:32] eventually I sort of give up on it but I

[00:19:33] was like you know what never escaped me

[00:19:36] from that time is like that we got to

[00:19:38] see each other’s people you know you

[00:19:39] gotta you can love people regardless of

[00:19:42] whether you fundamentally disagree with

[00:19:44] them even hate some of their views yeah

[00:19:46] yeah I could come together like on one

[00:19:49] specific topic right now can we all

[00:19:51] agree as a group Kirk Cameron is a

[00:19:53] terrible filmmaker no no no he’s not a

[00:19:57] bad actor Cameron can not make movies or

[00:20:02] tell stories or write oh no no you’re

[00:20:04] taking this in the wrong direction John

[00:20:05] we’re ending on a we’re ending I’m

[00:20:08] really positive like loving you note

[00:20:12] here and so leave me out yeah hey I just

[00:20:21] want to thank you guys for being taking

[00:20:22] the time to be here and and I want to

[00:20:24] thank Jordan you and BuzzFeed and John

[00:20:27] for putting up with me and all my

[00:20:29] argumentation but I am looking forward

[00:20:31] to getting these handcuffs off so

[00:20:34] jingle-jingle baby thanks for being here

[00:20:36] thanks for listening this Saturday I

[00:20:37] hope you guys are having a great day out

[00:20:39] there and look forward to sharing with

[00:20:42] you next week also and check us out on

[00:20:44] YouTube my website again is educate for

[00:20:46] life so our G and we’re gonna have all

[00:20:48] kinds of great interviews from this and

[00:20:50] and hopefully maybe a few more you know

[00:20:53] BuzzFeed connections a Lord willing okay

[00:20:56] take care

[00:21:10] you