Is Genesis History Revisited – Thomas Purifoy

[00:00:00] and now here’s your host Kevin kind of her bringing outside welcome to educate

[00:00:07] for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is joined educate for life o RG

[00:00:12] and there is 40 online classes defending the truth of the Bible you can take I’m a high school apologetics teacher at a

[00:00:18] Christian high school school here in Southern California and I’ve been teaching this for 11 years I love this

[00:00:24] subject and the subject matter I got to be handcuffed to an evolutionist a

[00:00:30] little while ago John Rael was his name it’s up on YouTube you can check it out if you like it’s a really really

[00:00:36] interesting experience I had there and and BuzzFeed asked was looking for a

[00:00:42] creation as to handcuff to an evolutionist so I volunteered and a lot of funny stuff but also a lot of really

[00:00:48] meaningful stuff happened during that that time with John and so you can check that out if you like my guest today is

[00:00:54] Thomas Purefoy Thomas am I saying your last name right yeah that’s great okay

[00:01:00] and I’m really excited to talk with Tom here because he is the producer of is

[00:01:05] Genesis history and this was a huge deal about a year ago it came out on February

[00:01:11] 23rd and it’s gonna be coming out again in theaters this upcoming Thursday February 22nd so I really encourage you

[00:01:18] to get out there and Tom I wanted to give our listeners a little bit of background about you before we hop into

[00:01:23] all the details about the movie and so forth how did you what was your upbringing where did you come from

[00:01:30] what’s your background did you grow up in a Christian home or what was the case yeah I did my parents were believers and

[00:01:38] I grew up a Little Rock Arkansas group in church and really had been taught

[00:01:44] from a very young age that the Bible was you know an accurate book of history so

[00:01:50] for myself I kind of went through my questioning is that release just looking

[00:01:56] into these issues of creation and evolution when I think I was around 10th grade and biology class and I began to

[00:02:02] realize that the story the history that the natural history of the world was

[00:02:09] presenting that of a millions of years you verse and a life that head bald over

[00:02:16] long to Tom that was a very different story in history rather than the one

[00:02:21] that was presented in the Bible I remember and I’m going through in my 10th grade year and examination these

[00:02:27] issues and kind of looking into the you know reading Henry Morris reading Richard leaking and reading really

[00:02:32] trying to read a both sides to try to understand what they were saying about the other side of it convinced that the

[00:02:39] Bible actually gives a very reasonable to accept it as the history of the world okay so from there hadn’t really didn’t

[00:02:47] him in this issue much for the past 30 years I kinda had looking in other areas and pressurize my own family and all and

[00:02:54] he came back to it more recently and with his film yeah that’s what I was thinking you know it’s so when when this

[00:02:59] movie was in the process of you know coming out into the theaters it really took me by surprise I saw del tackett’s

[00:03:07] involvement and that really blew me away and because this has always been an issue that as a teacher an apologetics

[00:03:14] teacher I’ve been very passionate about this and then to see this come out into the theaters like this I was just elated

[00:03:20] so excited for what you were doing and you kind of exploded on the scene here I

[00:03:26] had never heard your name before at all and all of a sudden here you are producing a nationwide movie on you know

[00:03:33] his Genesis history how did that how did that get started I mean what was the process from from you know when did you

[00:03:40] first think hey I want to make a movie about this and what’s your background can you show that with our listeners to like do you have a background in film

[00:03:47] what what what started that process for you so I my background film is really

[00:03:54] kind of self-taught I mean I was a went to college here at Vanderbilt in

[00:04:00] Nashville and study creative writing English and very interested in the world of film and thought I’m trying to enter

[00:04:06] in the world maligning side they did have after the Vanderbilt going to maybe

[00:04:12] for a while and being all Dean and overseas education and kind of doing a

[00:04:17] variety of things and then found myself back in Nashville and pursued sort of

[00:04:22] the world and trying to develop a company that would be able to Christian materials and and in some

[00:04:29] capacity Christian film materials for churches so I had done some stuff in the

[00:04:35] film world and we have a video company that produces educational curriculum but the world of the documentary I mean most

[00:04:42] people that are filmmakers will say that documentaries are what people do when

[00:04:48] they’re slightly insane no one that actually pursued has been talking mentoring is a trying to make money or

[00:04:55] be really thinking that it’s going to be even eat anything bigger no one hopes but documentaries are very hard the hard

[00:05:01] to get funded and they’re hard to finish so we originally had this yeah and a

[00:05:07] good friend of mine here who came alongside is the executive producer he

[00:05:13] was the one who together with the two of us we kind of said I think we could make a documentary on that and it always

[00:05:20] helps to have some funding somebody the two of us we put this together so Delta

[00:05:25] had got on board I had met Bell years before in RV and he had an interest in so I we say that in many ways looking

[00:05:31] back at the Lord’s providential control he just kind of guided the pieces in place and this two happened because for

[00:05:38] every film that gets made there’s probably 10 that don’t yeah we’re part way along the way and so I would say

[00:05:44] that was a em it was a real blessing that the Lord provided to us just to put

[00:05:49] all the elements in the film yeah so if you’re listening out there I actually interviewed Dale Tackett and Andrew

[00:05:56] Snelling about the movie when it originally came out and that’s on the YouTube channel if you want to check that out if you’re looking for more

[00:06:02] resources there it the movie has so much more than just the movie if you go to is

[00:06:08] Genesis history calm there’s all kinds of resources you were just telling me Thomas about beyond is Genesis history

[00:06:15] can you share a little bit with our listeners what that is yeah beyond in Genesis history is the

[00:06:22] essentially everything that ended up on the cutting room floor which was a lot when we wouldn’t interview folks so take

[00:06:29] andrew smelling for instance Andrews got maybe ten minutes in the film but when

[00:06:34] we actually interview Andrew we went to multiple locations we filmed him

[00:06:40] probably for good gosh three or four hours in total and so we had taken that other material so he

[00:06:47] talks about radioisotope dating and when infants and talks about really some sentimental logical things and Sedona

[00:06:54] and another and so we ended up with by even taking those four hours and cutting

[00:07:00] them down or 20-minute segments but dig into a lot of the things that he just

[00:07:05] doesn’t have a chance to talk about the film so what beyond the Genesis history is it’s really the next step for those who

[00:07:11] were intrigued it was in the film which said I’ve got a lot more questions because these guys really didn’t answer

[00:07:16] that they didn’t go that beat into the material and so the result is you can go

[00:07:21] this first set the rocks and fossils they’ll be three set life and design the

[00:07:26] Bible stars it’s over six hours of these videos that are a little longer about

[00:07:32] twenty minutes each and they let you dig into what the scientists really think on

[00:07:38] these topics are much more in depth why that’s great that’s great fantastic resource again the websites is Genesis

[00:07:44] history and I want to talk a little bit more about also you know during this

[00:07:50] interview today if you’re listening we’re gonna be talking about some of the science that supports the literal interpretation of Genesis as history and

[00:07:58] what some of the sticking points are between between secular scientists or

[00:08:04] what we would call old old ages people who believe that the universe and the earth are billions of years old versus

[00:08:10] somebody who looks at Genesis and the six-day creation and says this is how it happened exactly what we have outlined

[00:08:15] in Scripture and some of the controversy over you know how do you read Genesis is

[00:08:21] it poetry is it historical narrative these kinds of questions that’s we’re going to be covered in the interview today my guest is Thomas Perot Foy is

[00:08:29] Genesis history calm he is the producer and so he’s kind of the mind behind putting all the pulling all

[00:08:35] these experts together and putting this into theaters it’s gonna be coming out again Thursday February 22nd right

[00:08:41] around the corner here so I highly encourage you to get out there and check it out and bring some young people bring

[00:08:48] some people that are learning about these issues there’s a lot of controversy in the church bring somebody who’s kind of figuring it all out and

[00:08:55] give them the opportunity to take a look at the science that supports a recent

[00:09:01] creation I’m your guest Kevin Conover you’re on educate for life radio here in Southern California and around the world

[00:09:07] on the Internet so stay with us we’re gonna be right back hi this is Jason hall president of

[00:09:14] team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for

[00:09:20] the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:09:26] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of our faith it’s

[00:09:32] our honor and privilege to support kevin and his show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn

[00:09:37] to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you

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[00:11:53] thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is join Jo ing Kate

[00:12:00] for life no RG you can pick up recordings of previous shows I’ve got all kinds of experts that talk about

[00:12:07] issues like age of the earth I’ve interviewed Andrew Snelling John dr. John Baumgardner he’s a geophysicist

[00:12:12] I’ve also interviewed dr. Jason Lisle up there one of my first interviews with was with dr. Jason Lisle he is a

[00:12:20] physicist cosmologist and we’ve got all kinds of valuable information out there

[00:12:27] that will help you as you explore the issue of how old is the earth really and how do they come to those dates so

[00:12:32] Thomas when you started making this film you already probably had a substantial

[00:12:38] amount of information or knowledge about the subject matter what are some of the things that during the interview process

[00:12:43] what are some of the things that you learned that that kind of were new to you well it’s funny I wish I did have a

[00:12:50] huge amount of knowledge created I still at the end of it don’t feel I have that much knowledge even after three years of

[00:12:56] researching it you’re breaking my heart here man that’s discouraging

[00:13:02] no go ahead you’ve gone what you realize is that and this is just kind of the

[00:13:07] truth of that is that we as people are extremely limited we’d like to think that we understand a lot more than we do

[00:13:14] and what you realize is that the world that God made is so radically complex

[00:13:19] and there’s so many details about it that we the more you study the more you

[00:13:25] can are kind your eyes are open and how much there is really to understand it though and I and I think that was what happened it was like each of these areas

[00:13:31] that like falling down rabbits are Alice’s rabbit hole night you were like you’d get into and say

[00:13:37] okay this is really incredibly interesting I mean just looking at the world of paleontology and really

[00:13:42] studying I did a lot of my reading was not working with creationist works good actually trying to find graduate level or higher

[00:13:49] or works that are basically designed not for the introductory student but someone

[00:13:54] that is really trying to present more of the data that’s out there yeah fine is the higher you get a lot of folks are

[00:14:00] just really trying to say okay here’s the data this is look at its data and also some interpretation but the interpretation get

[00:14:07] thick and they’re more about like Benton’s vertebrate paleontology just a

[00:14:12] great overview so what do we think we see in the fossil record and when you begin to look at this stuff even the

[00:14:18] creationist perspective it’s really interesting because there’s some fascinating patterns I mean most people

[00:14:24] are reading and we must have in the film most people when you think about when mammal will appear in the fossil record

[00:14:31] they appear suddenly and they appear fully formed and it is just take

[00:14:36] something like that most people don’t think about bat the bat today represent

[00:14:41] about a quarter of the extant species they’re out there of mammals kind of

[00:14:48] like out on over 5,000 mammals about a quarter of them are back a little less than quarter well those that when you

[00:14:54] look in the fossil records they go back when they appear I believe in the lower es beam which is one of the lower in the

[00:14:59] Cenozoic level the higher levels of the fossil record there that and they’re

[00:15:05] fully bats so these are really strange things even for the evolution is to look at and you know why would this happen

[00:15:13] how is it possible these things show up I never quite caught them a million radiation sudden radiation of these they

[00:15:20] have these mammals but when you start looking at it say well what if this is actually near the flood boundary and

[00:15:26] these are the diversification of mammals after the flood in some form which is the view that it’s not the view all

[00:15:32] creation escaped but it’s the view the creationist in the film League we interview guys like Marcus Ross and Curt

[00:15:38] wise or paleontologists when you start looking at it that way it really begins to unhinge and change the way you look

[00:15:45] at stuff when you begin to look at stuff like the flail which are really unusual

[00:15:51] and you see creatures that won’t what if and this is kind of strange what is

[00:15:56] there were creatures that had some ability to be up on land and briefly and

[00:16:01] and be in the water what if they were kind of spending aquatic that then staying diversified they became fully

[00:16:06] whales I think that what is really fascinating is that creationism gives you the ability to really kind of think

[00:16:13] outside the box and begin to actually look at ideas that make a lot more sense

[00:16:20] even within Natick plasticity in the genetic potential that we see within within the

[00:16:25] animals today yeah the ability to change and so what I found really exciting is

[00:16:31] that a creationists begin to say I don’t necessarily understand as much as I think I do but let’s just go look at the

[00:16:38] data and then let’s go look and see what the Bible says as it’s lying kind of giving us this picture of history well

[00:16:44] how do those things really fit together and when you begin to do that it really fighting purpose of very much more

[00:16:51] exciting in some ways perhaps things that have not even completely figured out it opens up vistas for the creation

[00:16:58] of scientists to do work that I think has an enormous amount of potential for the future yeah and are you talking

[00:17:05] about as far as like getting grants and these sorts of things is that what you’re talking about well I mean the idea that creationists would get grants

[00:17:11] is really extraordinary though yeah money for these guys are out there yeah so this branch would be good that I was

[00:17:16] talking about research problems I mean questions of saying how is it that the

[00:17:22] genome diversifies so the assumption is is that if the timeline between the

[00:17:29] flood and the present is so short well what that would suggest is that there’s some pretty radical diversification take

[00:17:35] a horse it’s Princeton that are going for a fairly small little create a little horse type creature with three

[00:17:41] toes and a little bit different frame all the way up to the thoroughbreds and we see today well if the Bible is

[00:17:47] accurate in the timeline the chronology record I didn’t happen in a very long relatively long time so what does that

[00:17:54] suggest for the genetic potential that we see inside animals and guess what

[00:17:59] when you’re looking at animals today and even in terms of breeding you can get some really curious creatures when you

[00:18:05] start bringing them together naturally take the famous lion tiger result of an

[00:18:12] aligner these things are like 50% larger than lions and tigers and granted

[00:18:17] they’re sterile right now the ones that are born there what if they were not your huge creatures yeah I feel like

[00:18:25] there’s a great deal of when you begin to look at the world that way that there are designs and blueprints that are

[00:18:32] potentially built into these creatures that are hidden there and that

[00:18:38] may have been expressed the different ways in the past it kind of gives you this a different perspective on the past

[00:18:43] and then really on the creativity of God that he does things and creates things

[00:18:49] in ways that we really probably are not totally on what we probably don’t really greatly appreciate all the creativity

[00:18:56] that is within the crystal would be animals around us yeah absolutely so

[00:19:01] what has been the response over the past year to you know you you’ve had a lot so many people watch the movie now and I

[00:19:08] think a lot of people have been a lot very enthusiastic about it how successful has the movie been in terms

[00:19:14] of you know sales and so forth and as well as getting the word out of there out here are you seeing that people are

[00:19:21] really looking for this kind of information yeah I think it’s been a little bit of an unusual response we

[00:19:28] will often say that it was a little bit like finding oil in the ground that

[00:19:33] there was a lot of it there but we didn’t put it there I think there’s a lot of people that they open their Bibles and they read it in his news

[00:19:40] person–this in one history of the world and everywhere else they look around them in general in terms of the media

[00:19:45] that it was it’s a different history I think what we did is we just provided an overview and a obviously a video format

[00:19:54] which is definitely what had been done before so that folks are able to consume it kind of together and get an overview

[00:20:00] of it and so I do think that the film has some ways less people a lot of

[00:20:05] people with more questions and answers and that’s probably a good thing I think that in 100 minutes you can only do so

[00:20:11] much sir a documentary really is only very limited than the kind of

[00:20:17] information it can communicate and so my hope would be that folks would start

[00:20:23] here and then continue to say I’m going to research more that’s going to learn more of this and I think that that if

[00:20:30] that I we have seen a lot of folks that has seen the film and have been begin to

[00:20:35] kind of say okay wow this is a totally new world I’d like to learn more about it absolutely have you heard anybody’s you know sharing

[00:20:42] with you testimony about it that it’s really provoked them and then maybe change their mind or at least open

[00:20:49] their mind to you know maybe somebody that was leaning secular humanist or somebody was leading oldearth have you

[00:20:55] heard any testimonies about people saying hey this has really made me reconsider my position yeah we have

[00:21:04] heard folks to begin to say you know this is really interesting it presents a lot of information but I have not heard

[00:21:10] or thought of before I think the tendency most people are not probably going to be convinced by a single film

[00:21:16] turn but that if they’re pretty conflicted they’re very whole does something pretty strongly one way or the

[00:21:22] other but I think there are a lot of folks in the middle that had probably not really thought through this very

[00:21:28] much and so one of the things that is is that you kind of opens up your eyes to a

[00:21:33] lot of data but I just don’t think a lot of people are aware of and I think that

[00:21:38] the more that they are presented with real data then I think that that’s good for Christians absolutely and I know

[00:21:45] there’s a lot of our listeners are going to be thinking of themselves you know what would a lot of people say this they say why does it really matter I mean

[00:21:51] it’s not that big of a deal Jesus Christ is who saves us and what you feel about

[00:21:58] it one way or the other regarding the age of the earth and so forth that’s not really that big of a deal my guest today

[00:22:04] is Thomas Purefoy he is the producer of his Genesis history which is coming out

[00:22:09] February 22nd again it’s coming out one year later it’s gonna be playing again

[00:22:15] so please check it out it’s on Thursday February 22nd and when we come back he’s gonna tell us what was the motivation

[00:22:23] for him why did he feel that this was important enough to make you know how to

[00:22:28] take such a big risk in producing a film like this you heard him talk about how it’s hard to make a documentary so why

[00:22:35] is this so important to Thomas regarding the age of the earth and is Genesis real

[00:22:40] history we’re gonna be right back I will bring my hi hi this is Kevin

[00:22:52] Conover will you please donate to educate for life so we can share the truth of God’s Word with kids in public schools

[00:22:59] you can donate online at donate to EFL 0rg the Bible used to be read in public

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[00:23:12] and the historical and scientific accuracy of the Bible please help us by donating online at donate to EFL RG hi

[00:23:20] this is Jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this

[00:23:25] opportunity to thank Kevin Kahn over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as

[00:23:31] being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important

[00:23:37] it is to be defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and

[00:23:43] prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings

[00:23:50] Thank You Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans hi I’m Marisa Conover

[00:23:56] and I would love to help you buy or sell your home I’ve worked as a realtor for

[00:24:01] more than 13 years and as a San Diego native my passion and experience will

[00:24:06] help make your move as peaceful as can be call me at six one nine two five one

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[00:24:57] for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my web site is joined educate for life org please check it out also we have a big

[00:25:04] event coming up on may 15th Danny Ray who is a very famous illusionist he’s an evangelist he shares

[00:25:10] the gospel all over the world he has performed in all 50 states he’s incredibly actually had him on the show

[00:25:15] not too long ago he’s gonna be helping us out in that event on may 15th I know

[00:25:21] it’s a little ways away but trying to get a head start here and we are putting this event together specifically for

[00:25:27] Christians that are serving in some capacity and education or are a part of education it’s parents administrators

[00:25:33] students and teachers we’d love for you to come out and join us on May 15th 6:00 p.m. in the evening and just talk about

[00:25:41] what it means to be a Christian in education to encourage you and inspire you Eric bures gonna be there with us I’m

[00:25:47] gonna be sharing a little bit about the historical accuracy of the Bible and then we’ve got Danny Ray who’s going to be giving us these amazing illusions

[00:25:53] that he does and sharing the gospel so I hope that you can make it on that evening put it on your calendar my guest

[00:25:59] today is Thomas Purefoy he is the producer of his Genesis history and Thomas on the last segment I just ended

[00:26:06] by saying hey why is this so important you know a lot of people say why are we even having this discussion it’s not

[00:26:11] needed it’s just divisive what made you decide this is worth putting this

[00:26:17] documentary together well I think when people talk about the age of the earth they’re really what they’re talking

[00:26:23] about when they realize it or not is the history here it’s like saying okay this guy’s 95

[00:26:28] years old in that kid over there’s 10 years old well by just saying his age what we’re doing is we’re basically

[00:26:35] saying absolutely saying certain things about the history he’s listed a 95 year old was alive during World War two

[00:26:41] the 10 year old we know wasn’t even born when 9/11 happened and so I think when

[00:26:47] we talk about the age of the earth that’s a little bit of a code for what we think happened in the history there

[00:26:52] and that when we’re dealing with the gospel the work of Jesus Christ he came specifically because of actions

[00:27:01] that happened in the history of the earth so I think that’s that’s what you see in Luke chapter 3 very very clearly

[00:27:08] that you should have a prism and God says hey this is my beloved son who’s

[00:27:13] here and I baptized him and he’s basically anointed to do a very specific job so

[00:27:18] what does it look do you think this is a genealogy that traces Jesus’s line all

[00:27:23] the way back to Adam who he says is okay and by the way he’s the son of God and then Luke chapter 4 what we see it’s the

[00:27:31] temptation which is a repeat of what happened in the garden and so Luke is

[00:27:37] basically observed wanting us to get that the whole reason Jesus is coming is

[00:27:42] to put two basically to put your right to collect what was going on in the

[00:27:49] garden and what Adam messed up at a real place and time and so that when you

[00:27:57] begin to kind of look at these things as a whole it’ll they’re a little bit like roots that have grown into other plants

[00:28:04] you can’t just mess with one they’re all interconnected because the foodies are dealing with the garden now you’re back

[00:28:10] in Genesis 2 and Genesis 1 and basically these things are all there together so

[00:28:16] if there is a history of the world that is different than the one that is

[00:28:22] presented in the Bible well then you’ve got to ask them so what is it and one of the implications of it and so my

[00:28:28] argument basically is that if you’re going to extend the history of the world by billions of years well then you’ve

[00:28:34] got to put a whole lot more event in those billions of years you’re like saying well we’re two didn’t last just

[00:28:40] you know six years or from 39 to 45 if you’re going to look at the when I

[00:28:45] started in in Poland we’re gonna say it for 60 years well you got to have events that go with that

[00:28:51] and so I think that that’s an important deal that our Christianity is a religion based on events that happened in history

[00:28:59] Paul tells this first Corinthians 15 Peter makes the point I think 2nd Peter

[00:29:04] hey we saw these events and these events are real and so the event from the

[00:29:10] beginning are clearly very important to everybody in the New Testament they’re all always talking about them so I would

[00:29:16] go so far as to say that is with the gospel issue yeah and the same sense that the things that Genesis talks about

[00:29:24] whether it’s Abraham whether it’s Noah whether it’s Adam they’re all a part of

[00:29:29] this redemptive history of how God is redeeming after that you can’t really

[00:29:35] cut some out and say well I’m only gonna talk about the cross because what’s the point across if it wasn’t for Brad I see

[00:29:42] what you’re saying now now what’s interesting is that you said earlier in our in our discussion here you were

[00:29:49] mentioned that a lot of times looking at these issues raises more questions than answers so at any point during this

[00:29:56] process did you second-guess your position on you know is Genesis real

[00:30:01] history did you ever and and did you did you talk to people that were of the opposing view as well as scientists that

[00:30:09] are of the you know supporting a the recent creation so to your first

[00:30:15] question I ever did I ever questioned my position I really didn’t primarily

[00:30:20] because much of what you the way you have to kind of come it and how we know things questions in epistemology you’re

[00:30:27] cutting on I established what is your authority and how did you get facility and so it made a lot of sense of the Bible was an accurate book of history

[00:30:34] and so just simply saying that the first chapters are also a cure book of history

[00:30:39] or not that wasn’t a very difficult thing to to come to I started interviewing other people I did not

[00:30:46] interview other people but I actually read a lot of their books so whether it’s old earth creationist or theistic

[00:30:52] evolutionists or even atheistic evolutionist what I found is that most

[00:30:58] people they’re able to present their best arguments and form in snow whether it was books by

[00:31:07] guys like Steve Gould or books by you know paleontologists or you know various

[00:31:15] folks that have written against the Christian view the world or in many cases this place particularly

[00:31:21] creationism or whether it was you know books like Hugh Ross talking about older creation I consulted them first on all

[00:31:29] the light it’s because you lost the complaint about this but again I find it it’s in their books that they’re yeah

[00:31:34] presenter as their best foot forward and so I wanted to basically read them and lay them on their again best foot board

[00:31:42] and and so when you read books the like by Hugh Ross and others how did you you

[00:31:49] you felt that the argument for a recent creation and a literal historical

[00:31:54] Genesis you felt that that was still the evidence was still more compelling in that direction

[00:31:59] yeah I mean the issue people don’t often bring up is that if you’re gonna the

[00:32:05] important thing that I was looking at is a book of history so all I even want to talk about science they want to talk

[00:32:11] about you know the Bible and what the Bible says and I think those are both very important but I my interest is the

[00:32:16] question of saying what if we look at the Bible and Facebook look at history and more importantly we say well okay what we all agree one is that something

[00:32:23] actually happened so the question became so what do we agree with well we agree

[00:32:29] that our world is the way it is we agree that there are these rock layers we agree that there these fossils we agree

[00:32:35] that these things really exist and then we agree that everything history that occurred before us they started

[00:32:40] somewhere they almost everyone agrees with us so if that’s the case then we’re saying well so what actually happened and I

[00:32:48] found that that was what became kind of interesting that when I got to asking questions about theistic evolutionist

[00:32:54] are asking a question of an old earth creationist or a mystic evolutionist what I found is they agreed with about

[00:33:00] 99% of the actual timeline of events merely if we yeah I mean if the universe

[00:33:08] or this put it experience not even a very hard equation I think your timeline is based on chronology so when you’re

[00:33:14] dealing with history you’re dealing with things that we all pay we know you’re dealing with duration you’re dealing with it then you’re

[00:33:21] dealing less I mean the things that happen people and so if you look for instance at the conventional chronology

[00:33:28] of the world currently right now is stating about 13.8 billion years well everyone agrees it was a big bang

[00:33:34] but let’s not talk about Klaus let’s just talk about it again everyone believed and this is humorous this is a

[00:33:41] theistic evolution they get together they all agree on the same event they agree that for nine billion years there

[00:33:47] was no earth the universe wasn’t even a we didn’t we didn’t even have a solar system then about you know 4.5 billion

[00:33:54] years ago there was a galactic cooling event and Untouchables began to form I was talking to a geologist that Whedon

[00:34:00] recently and I said what do you believe do you believe they’re formed over millions of years to plan testicles and

[00:34:06] he was like yes Hugh Ross would hold with us a theistic evolution us so you

[00:34:11] now have billions of years occurring where the slow accretion of plentiful over millions of years and billions of

[00:34:17] years of the earth which then has to go through multiple environments whether it’s a an orchid a and period leading

[00:34:24] all the way up to the Proterozoic period that are mainly representing the Cambrian rocks what they would say

[00:34:31] that’s four billion years so we’re right now at what 13 billion years little over

[00:34:36] and so for thirteen point two billion years it’s all exactly the same they then again would agree that for 540

[00:34:45] million years ago is when you have the first complex life they would put still

[00:34:50] life earlier than that but they would all put it happen again I’m not putting cause did God do it did it happen

[00:34:55] accidentally does it matter you’ve been for the same and they would begin to say that there is you know the slow rise and fall of

[00:35:02] epic continental seas you know what fifteen times and so forth or more that

[00:35:08] has created the sedimentary rock layers that exists in the you know

[00:35:15] Paleozoic and in the Mesozoic and so just so you’re saying yeah all the

[00:35:22] things events and are you following me here well I I want to I want to ask you

[00:35:28] a few questions about what you just said but we’re up on a break here so when we get back my guest today is Thomas / FY

[00:35:34] he’s the producer of his Genesis history and we’re discussing some of the stuff

[00:35:40] that people view right now currently about the sequence of events and how

[00:35:45] much do we agree on and how much do we disagree on we’re going to be right back stay with us

[00:35:51] hi this is Jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one

[00:35:56] lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Kahn over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and

[00:36:02] my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and

[00:36:08] passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin

[00:36:14] and his show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through

[00:36:19] Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you Kevin from the hall family and team home

[00:36:26] loans share the gospel with confident in

[00:36:33] a physical an effective way we would like to teach you through the proclamation of the gospel how do you

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[00:37:57] [Music] welcome to educate for life I’m your

[00:38:03] host Kevin Conover I appreciate you being here with us today and listening to the program my guest today is Thomas

[00:38:09] Purefoy with is Genesis history comm please visit that website is Genesis history comm it’s also coming out on in

[00:38:17] theaters next Thursday February 22nd this is the kind of anniversary showing of the movie and I’ve seen the whole

[00:38:24] movie it is fantastic I loved it does an amazing job of really pulling together a whole bunch of

[00:38:30] information into a concise package so you can get the overall picture which I think in a lot of ways is more

[00:38:36] compelling when you see it all together than just seeing one piece of the puzzle would you would you agree with that

[00:38:42] that’s seeing it all at once is helpful versus just seeing these you know pieces here and there Tom yeah I mean III do

[00:38:51] think so that the as a whole is a really big deal to see pieces of the whole yeah

[00:38:56] so when we left off last segment you were talking about how you you said

[00:39:02] essentially people evolutionists and people who believe in a long aged geology and so forth that we were you

[00:39:09] saying that we agreed with 99% of them is that what you were saying yeah what I was saying is that there are just two

[00:39:15] years of history okay now I was describing their view of history and Pilate will complain about this law I

[00:39:21] can’t believe that you know you’ve linked all of these you know Christians and non-christians together but what most people don’t realize is that they

[00:39:28] hold to exactly the same chronology and timeline yeah their only difference its causality meaning god or god or not god

[00:39:36] is what you’re saying yeah and then within that group if you’re a theistic evolutionist or you’re a progressive creationist well you’re gonna hold to

[00:39:43] the same geological events your only difference is that the progressive creationist holds that God had you know

[00:39:50] according to Hugh you know I don’t know 20 30 unique creation events he’s not sure how many of it yeah in the 15

[00:39:56] billion years all of a sudden God recreates all these new creatures most people don’t know what nothing

[00:40:01] people actually think so how do you respond to that what how do you respond when when to progressive creationists

[00:40:07] and all when you’re having this discussion what what do you say to them well the best quote is use quote

[00:40:13] Huxley so when you go if you look if you read the Origin of Species this Darwin was not going after six-day creation

[00:40:18] when Darwin wrote his bluff the guys that were that healthy ascendancy Adam Sedgwick and others they were

[00:40:24] progressive creationists Cuvier and all these guys and so he gives a very interesting little historical sketch of

[00:40:30] how did we get there you know 1859 and Origin of Species and he quotes Thomas Huxley basically says and Huxley was his

[00:40:37] you know friend that was also a natural and hunted look in the history boat

[00:40:43] leader in your revelation being nowhere in the Bible and there were in tradition and nearly not even in the evidence

[00:40:49] around you in the world is there any proof for this view of God creating

[00:40:55] different types of animals with huge sections of times not between them I

[00:41:01] mean this whole view only derives from some of basic assumptions that Cuvier

[00:41:06] and others made back then and so it doesn’t even really make sense one in

[00:41:12] each in any area like it the Bible certainly doesn’t say it and there’s really not even a tradition in

[00:41:18] historically and historic prior to the 19th century of it and then as the evolutionist point out it really doesn’t

[00:41:24] even make sense when you’re looking at actual paleontological data which is

[00:41:30] true that’s why Darwin usually a progressive creationist in many cases will end up if you’re going to assume in

[00:41:36] all day they’re going to end up a theistic evolution if they’re consistent because the evidence there’s far more

[00:41:41] evidence that works together that way now I would not think that either of them are the best explanation of record

[00:41:47] but my point is that back in 1859 they recognized that progressive creation has

[00:41:53] major major problems because it’s trying to put together things that just don’t fit which is the Bible which presents

[00:42:00] that God created everything in six days as unique kinds verses this you know 540

[00:42:06] million year slow creation of God creates a bunch of stuff and they go

[00:42:11] extinct you creates a bunch of stuff they go extinct to die out I just seem strange yeah yeah absolutely I feel it’s

[00:42:18] very kind of ad hoc as far as when you’re reading the Bible now you were

[00:42:23] saying that the Bible is a history book and one of the gentlemen you had in the movie was dug Petrovich so did

[00:42:29] you end up did you initially when you were setting out to make the movie did

[00:42:35] you have in mind that you are going to involve archeology and so forth or was

[00:42:40] that kind of something that developed along the way or you know people people will argue back and forth well the Bible

[00:42:46] is faith and and then you’ve got science or some people might say the Bible’s history but then you’ve got science so

[00:42:52] what does the interplay there between archaeology science the Bible and and how did you infuse that into the movie I

[00:42:59] can always in plan to have archaeology as a part of it and I think a lot of times people will use words like science

[00:43:05] the Bible and segment and they’re really not sure what they mean by these definitions we find truly is the study of the natural world

[00:43:11] and you can have scientific meaning the

[00:43:17] use of certain methods and certain regimens to study aspects of the natural

[00:43:22] world in this case archaeology which is kind of a it’s working on the natural world sort of but really what it’s doing

[00:43:28] is it’s looking at the history of artifacts made by people that are

[00:43:33] basically found in the world and so I felt that it was important when you begin to look at the Bible you begin to

[00:43:41] see that there is this point especially there in the early chapters of Genesis where the archaeological record becomes

[00:43:47] important and I’ll be the first to say there have not been nearly enough young earth creationist in the world of

[00:43:53] archaeology some interesting things out there especially if you begin to throw out these questions of the fs the

[00:43:58] efficacy of carbon-14 dating prior to 1500 which a lot of people actually the

[00:44:04] archaeological community recognized that there begins either even in the secular community there is a debate with

[00:44:11] Egyptologist on one of the effectiveness of carbon-14 prior to the 1500 but I

[00:44:17] felt that it is in 20 that we just to clarify a time on you when you say the effectiveness of carbon-14 dating prior

[00:44:24] to the 1500s are you saying that once you go past the 1500s it becomes ineffective or are you saying okay 100

[00:44:32] beefy so what happened is that I be tak who’s doing I think his work and Avera was doing was the noticing this I know

[00:44:38] this is this is a commonly known deal inside the world of archeology what are you beginning to notice is that

[00:44:44] the conventional dating so the dating of certain Egyptian rulers prior to 15

[00:44:51] around 1500 and prior to 1500 that he was they were about 170 years off and it

[00:45:00] was strange because of the carbon 14 dates were suggesting one date and yet his conventional dating by adding years

[00:45:07] up and putting together what the rules were based on on writings this again is just Egyptology was

[00:45:13] showing a different date and it was very very odd of them and that they seem to have noticed and this is what I would

[00:45:19] argue is that that is an indicator of things that were unsettling going back

[00:45:24] to the flood and that there is something that was going on within the radioisotopes world but we have not yet

[00:45:30] understood that it’s causing these weird occurrences which would explain why someone will come back and say well that

[00:45:37] days at 40,000 years ago and you’re like well no it’s probably dated much much

[00:45:42] closer to the flood which would also then explain why you have these weird radioisotope dating – you know suggests

[00:45:48] things are millions and billions of years old I think that there’s more going on than we understand and that

[00:45:55] archaeology curiously is at the at the at the bleeding edge of it is beginning

[00:46:00] it is basically having these debate that’s very interesting huh I had to heard that be found

[00:46:05] well no be packs got a good article you can look online and see this stuff I mean it’s go to academia calm and be

[00:46:12] taxed work and bi ATK and you can see his old papers on this that’s great okay

[00:46:18] so so then as far as this pertains you know – are you seeing any shift in

[00:46:23] thinking as you know it because I’ve heard these arguments for quite a while the arguments back and forth and you

[00:46:30] know you have Hugh Ross arguing that the genesis is more poetical and so forth

[00:46:35] are you seeing any shift in thinking in that you know when you put forth that effort I I thought it was amazing also

[00:46:42] that you had Dale tagging involved because he’s kind of a celebrity figure with the truth project and every day at

[00:46:48] least in the Christian world and I’m curious to know if you’ve seen any shifts in people’s thinking in the

[00:46:55] Christian world you know because we’ve kind of had this split over it but we’re up on it on a break here we have one more segment left I’m gonna let Tom

[00:47:01] answer these questions that I have and we’ll talk a little bit more about is Genesis history so stay with us we got

[00:47:07] one more second I left the 36 years fast

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[00:47:44] two two zero seven sixty-six Luke Gibson of LT equipment supports educate for

[00:47:49] life with Kevin Conover Luke grew up in the construction industry and now serves LG’s commercial and residential

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[00:48:02] water trucks tankers and towers call algae equipment at six one nine nine nine eight zero nine two four learn more

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[00:48:47] hi this is Kevin Conover will you please donate to educate for life so we can

[00:48:52] share the truth of God’s Word with kids in public schools you can donate online at donate to EFL

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[00:49:09] accuracy of the Bible please help us by donating online at donate to EFL RG hi

[00:49:16] this is Jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this

[00:49:21] opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as

[00:49:28] being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important

[00:49:33] it is to be defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and

[00:49:40] prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you

[00:49:47] Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans

[00:49:54] welcome to educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is educate for life dot o-r-g I hope you’re

[00:50:00] enjoying the conversation I’m having with Thomas Purefoy today we we the this

[00:50:05] show is going to be all up on YouTube you can check it out on the YouTube channel educate for live video and we also podcast it and I’ve got all kinds

[00:50:12] of resources on my website but he has a ton of resources on his website is Genesis history comm please go check out

[00:50:20] the film February 22nd that’s right around the corner here it’s a Thursday it’s gonna be in the theaters for one

[00:50:25] day and it’s been out you know for a year you can buy DVDs and you can

[00:50:31] downloads and there’s all kinds of stuff I’m gonna be giving away some downloads myself he’s graciously given me a few

[00:50:37] downloads that I can pass out so keep your eyes open for that stay with us but so so my I left off the segment Tom

[00:50:44] asking you are you seeing any shift in thinking in the Christian world I’m

[00:50:49] among pastors and others and and maybe even other you know spiritual leaders

[00:50:55] because I know when I had dealt a kid on I asked him about this and he said he

[00:51:00] said that he didn’t bring it up in the truth project you know he didn’t bring up the whole discussion over the edge of

[00:51:05] the earth because some people had felt it was too controversial and I think he was still I’m not sure how much where he

[00:51:13] was at but I know he ended up becoming convinced that the earth a recent

[00:51:18] creation biblically and scientifically made more sense are you seeing any other people like that kind of come out of the

[00:51:25] woodwork and saying hey I agree with is Genesis history I mean I’m not but I’m

[00:51:32] also not even I’m not looking for it I think that these things will happen kind of slowly and quietly people will

[00:51:39] probably come to review so you know that it’s kind of reasonable that ideas don’t change usually usually they don’t change

[00:51:46] very quickly and suddenly but enough dad and enough people generally will say

[00:51:51] well I’m I can accept this like I think that’s what I’ve noticed probably more than anything is that there’s I don’t

[00:51:57] think it’s negatively but I find that even among folks that are quote educated they really or don’t know that much

[00:52:03] about these the actual data and these issues yeah that’s been that’s in my experience also yeah I mean

[00:52:10] so I mean I guess in the realm of the guy who’s I respect greatly yeah you know has a systematic theology is

[00:52:15] seminary and I never asked me for this music well you know I kind of hold two up you know a looser older deal but then

[00:52:21] I ask them so what are your thoughts about you know the paleontological record need to look at these only on I don’t have much time to talk about

[00:52:26] paleontology so I had another guy mention yeah well I don’t deal much of the for Genesis 12 and so I think these

[00:52:33] are even though people are very very smart and very respected I think that we would be surprised how a lot of people

[00:52:41] actually studied or thought about this just because there’s so many things going back to the beginning I said

[00:52:46] there’s a lot to know out there and even those who know I don’t really know that much I find that a lot of the eggs of

[00:52:54] Jesus of Genesis the best work has been done guys like Kazuto and you know who

[00:53:01] are Jews doing the work on this over the binnacle Jews this is a narrative it’s a

[00:53:07] historical narrative and you can see in the text you can see in other texts to refer back to it and then even a

[00:53:13] Christian you’d say well you see in the New Testament texts so traditionally what you see really in the history of

[00:53:19] eggs of Jesus is that books like Augustine folks in the modern world all

[00:53:25] machine of course believe that this is an instant you know the creation and wasn’t you know over six days folks

[00:53:30] tomorrow I’ll want to basically put it you know at millions of years I would argue these are local nature myths that

[00:53:37] are then being applied to the Bible and that the Big Bang cosmology is just as much a modern nature myth as is anything

[00:53:45] you go back in time and do that that they’re they’re a reflection of the philosophical and theological thinking

[00:53:51] of the day that’s been being applied the Bible and so if you take the text for what it is and use the internal exile

[00:53:58] markers and are not trying to create some some new structure to fit your

[00:54:03] modern nature myth into it even if you’re you know Augustine and your modern methyls you’re a neoplatonist and

[00:54:08] so God did this for the angels and loser picks this up in the you know 16th century here’s Irving that well it’s

[00:54:15] very obvious what what Augustine was doing here in the same way people will look back probably 100 years from

[00:54:21] the 20th century early 21st day oh is it an interesting framework hypothesis cosmic temple model analogical days it’s

[00:54:28] very clear what they’re doing because they’re trying to do store size with that the tax tactic basically fit the

[00:54:35] modern nature myth of Big Bang cosmology into it I think cosmology will probably go away

[00:54:40] yeah that makes a lot of sense what you’re saying so if that’s the case then what would you what would you say is the

[00:54:46] best approach when you’re trying to discuss this issue with somebody or trying to persuade them you know that Genesis is history do you start

[00:54:53] biblically and look at biblical exegesis or do you go to the science or is it just dependent upon the individual

[00:54:59] you’re talking to yeah I really think you’ve got to start with the Bible but you really got to start with the New

[00:55:05] Testament and so it’s helpful to realize that those between all 11 chapters

[00:55:11] Genesis 1 feel a lot of inclusion the New Testament somewhere and so it gives us the ability to pivot and look back

[00:55:18] and say well how are they approaching it so Paul takes Adam to be very real Peter

[00:55:23] takes no and the flood to be global Jesus thanks to become only few geologies you basically can present

[00:55:29] almost all of a mist view of what I would call six-day creation which is really just though it’s a chronological

[00:55:35] sequence that accepts Genesis one thing 11 is being accurate history you can find all the New Testament so all these

[00:55:42] guys that’s where I would start and say well look I mean their writing is 1,500 years after Moses wrote it so clearly

[00:55:49] there’s some distance here and here’s how they’re interpreting it is real historical event and so he either

[00:55:55] Estolano that’s really good that’s yeah to just show that this is what the Bible

[00:56:01] actually teaches both in the New Testament and the Old Testament and relating to things like you said like

[00:56:06] the first Adam and the last Adam and and the whole point of Christ’s death and resurrection is to solve a sin problem

[00:56:13] that started all the way back in the garden it all goes back and so and then the other thing would be trying to

[00:56:19] disabuse people of their huge they have this interesting just say monolithic authority of the latest view of science

[00:56:25] until I would encourage them to read some history of science it reads in Thomas Kuhn and read some modern philosophers who demonstrated that

[00:56:32] science is not really a pistol magically authoritative to be able to make these statements I mean a simple

[00:56:38] exercise you tell them we’ll go take a pic of a science textbook a hundred years ago how many things in this do we

[00:56:44] hold and they clearly thought they were absolutely right and everything they said they were for sure 100% we know this and everyone listened

[00:56:52] back in tears gosh look how much they really were rollin well that’s gonna happen in 50 years looking to our day

[00:56:57] and a hundred years looking back so is a great philosopher scientist people

[00:57:02] mechanics like look it’s so strange that Westerners always are so sure that they

[00:57:08] are right at the moment they’re saying it only you’re looking five years you look in ten years and like well I was

[00:57:14] not reading all about yeah yeah but they will go to the death thing Christian

[00:57:20] they will fight over scientific ideas and this is silly because it’s even those history of science they know that

[00:57:27] that is a I mean that’s our it’s a bit read that you’re holding on to doesn’t

[00:57:33] mean you don’t science is our natural world I mean there’s not things that you can know about the world but the idea that we can go back in time to know

[00:57:39] exactly what happened and that we are sure that this was happen III would say that this is this is foolishness this

[00:57:46] misplaced misplaced faith kind of my favorite quotes is in 1971 cyclopædia

[00:57:52] Britannica I’m talking about cosmogony and he says oh the latest calculations that finally figured out that the

[00:57:59] universe is five billion years old and the earth in all the galaxies and all

[00:58:04] the sources it’s five billion years isn’t this amazing how all this works out it’s so many different mathematical equations and they wax going on that

[00:58:13] nearly we all know it’s five billion this would be luckabee Britannica 1970 we read and say oh this must be true

[00:58:19] so 13.8 do we think so oh you know the red shift change oh yeah yeah that’s

[00:58:27] great thinking that they know oh they know well Tom I really want to thank you so much for being on the program today

[00:58:33] we’re just out of time here now and I really appreciate what you’re doing I make all my students watch clips from

[00:58:40] this movie so it’s a huge blessing if you’re listening today and is Genesis

[00:58:46] history calm it’s a great source go to it they’ve got Bible studies on there they’ve got beyond as Genesis history they’ve got like we were

[00:58:52] talking about earlier all these clips that you can check out that didn’t make it into the movie just because you can

[00:58:58] only fit so much in a movie so a fantastic resource and you get to learn about a lot of these scientists who are

[00:59:04] experts in these particular areas that you can use as reference tools maybe when you’re writing papers for school or

[00:59:10] whatever it might be it’s a great opportunity to be able to share some great truths from the Word of God and is

[00:59:17] Genesis History Thursday February 22nd please go check it out again thank you Tom for being on the air with us today

[00:59:22] absolutely thanks the opportunity you’re welcome I hope you’ll join us again next Saturday I am gonna have Doug axe on the

[00:59:29] radio Doug axe wrote a book on the probability of life coming from no life and the probability of things like

[00:59:36] evolution and so forth so it is incredible and I’ll be talking to him next Saturday so I hope you’ll join me

[00:59:43] then and in the meantime I hope you have a fantastic Saturday god bless you and praying God’s best for you I’ll see you

[00:59:50] next time bye-bye did you miss part of today’s program don’t worry we’re con mitad to helping

[00:59:56] you get the info you need okay that was dumb but for real visit educate for life con for podcasts and video recordings of

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