[00:00:00] hi this is jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending i just want to take this

[00:00:05] opportunity to think Kevin Kahn over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as

[00:00:11] being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important

[00:00:17] it is to be defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and

[00:00:23] prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you

[00:00:30] Kevin from the hall family and team home loans educate for life helps you build your life on the rock LG equipment helps

[00:00:38] builders build on good soil Luc Gibson’s team at LG equipment is your local source for grading demolition hauling

[00:00:44] and more learn about their bulk water services from trucks to tankers to towers at rent water tower comm get your

[00:00:51] questions answered call LG equipment at six one nine nine eight eight zero nine two four

[00:00:57] learn more at LG equipment comm six one nine nine eight eight zero nine two four

[00:01:03] when you need tires are serviced count on Conover tires wheels and service in oceanside for a full range of affordable

[00:01:09] options at all the brands you trust see their great customer reviews that special offers online hours Tuesday

[00:01:16] through Friday 7:30 to 5:30 and Saturdays 7:30 to 5:00 called Dan and his team of seven six zero four three

[00:01:22] nine sixteen thirty one Conover tires wheels and service 24:05 oceanside boulevard in oceanside

[00:01:28] seven six zero four three nine sixteen thirty one how can you live in San Diego

[00:01:34] and miss out on enjoying the water fast lane kayaking sells popular Hobie Cat

[00:01:39] kayaks that you pedal not paddle that means your hands are left free for fishing and fun just throw these on your

[00:01:46] roof rack they’re light and they’re easy to use and maintain just rinse them off try one free on a demo ride for 36 years

[00:01:54] Ron and Debbie Lane have served San Diego with fun family-friendly water sports of all kinds learn more fast lane

[00:02:01] sailing com six one nine two two two zero seven sixty-six

[00:02:07] Kevin Conover bring your time bring your shame hey welcome to educate for life

[00:02:14] I’m your host Kevin Conover my web sites educate for life dot o-r-g and if you

[00:02:19] would like to check out our web site there’s all kinds of resources on there that will help you in your understanding

[00:02:24] of the Christian faith and how to defend the Bible today we’re gonna be talking to a special guest his name is dr. Olin

[00:02:30] Browne he is the author of a variety of books but he’s he’s a professor emeritus board-certified toxicologist he has a

[00:02:37] PhD in microbiology he’s an expert witness and consul in the life sciences and I just want to list some of his

[00:02:44] credentials here because you know whenever I talk to skeptics or agnostics or atheists who are skeptical about the

[00:02:51] Bible or skeptical about creation science or creationism or intelligent design all these sorts of things I get a

[00:02:57] I get a lot of this a claim that hey in order to be a true scientist you have to believe in evolution and that’s just not

[00:03:05] the case dr. Brown believes in God he believes in the Bible he is a proponent of intelligent design and creation and

[00:03:11] he’s very very well credentialed as far as science is concerned he’s professor

[00:03:17] emeritus at the University of Missouri Missouri Columbia he’s a Dalton cardiovascular Research

[00:03:23] Center he’s been there at the graduate school he’s had been in the department of molecular microbiology and immunology

[00:03:29] the School of Medicine department of biomedical sciences and adjunct professor of pathology College of

[00:03:35] Veterinary Medicine and I couldn’t go through his entire resume as far as the

[00:03:42] amount of articles and so forth he’s written but as far as somebody who has the authority to speak on science and

[00:03:50] evolution and microbiology it’d be very difficult for you to find somebody that

[00:03:56] was more credentialed so dr. Brown I just wanted to thank you for being on the show today well thank you for having

[00:04:01] me I’m looking forward to it absolutely and so you know you have an article

[00:04:06] that’s up on evolution news and science today this is an article that you wrote

[00:04:13] and specifically one of the things you discuss which I find very interesting you wrote here evolution fails to

[00:04:20] explain how the first enzyme was changed into the approximately 75,000 different

[00:04:26] enzymes estimated to exist in the human body or the 10 million enzymes that are

[00:04:31] thought to exist in all of Earth’s biota and for me this is interesting you know my daughter has cystic fibrosis and

[00:04:38] every day before she eats we have to give her enzymes in order to be able to eat for her body to be able to digest

[00:04:44] the food but could you explain to our listeners the average layperson how enzymes work and what’s going on there

[00:04:51] as far as biology is concerned well certainly one of the primary differences

[00:04:58] between nonliving things and anything that is alive is the fact that it has

[00:05:03] something called metabolism it is able to chemically convert chemical

[00:05:10] substances into the substances a living cell and the living agent the body in

[00:05:19] order to do that most of the required reactions the changes the construction

[00:05:27] of the physical substance of cells in the body requires reactions that are

[00:05:36] possible but are very slow enzymes do

[00:05:42] two things they are able to very specifically design and construct and

[00:05:48] build the sub cellular components and they are able to do this very very

[00:05:55] rapidly the rate at which living chemical reactions occur without enzymes

[00:06:03] would be so slow that it would take an

[00:06:08] interminable amount of time for anything to happen so enzymes make specific

[00:06:13] reactions and they speed them up tremendously that’s very interesting now

[00:06:19] now you wrote on in this particular article you wrote enzymes have what

[00:06:26] seemed to be near miraculous abilities why why do you call what they’re able to accomplish near miraculous

[00:06:33] for for the reasons that I just alluded to the the very specificity in order to

[00:06:41] create the substance of the body we have to make very very special chemical

[00:06:48] reactions for a chemist in the laboratory to do that Rikka requires

[00:06:54] very elaborate kinds of processes in a large room a cell is able to conduct at

[00:07:03] the same time almost like a conductor conduction Orchestra you have all of the

[00:07:10] instruments doing their thing in perfect sequence and in perfect precision and at

[00:07:16] a tremendous rate millions of molecules per second in some cases are converted

[00:07:23] very specifically I can think of few things that are more miraculous than if

[00:07:30] you didn’t know about this if you were just told that it that it occurs you would say well that sounds fer Acula s–

[00:07:36] to me yeah absolutely and you know you wrote a book your book is called miracles and essentially you

[00:07:43] you know you’re arguing that all of life is a a gigantic miracle can you talk a

[00:07:48] little bit about that too as far as that pertains to this certainly uh when I had

[00:07:55] almost finished writing the book I came across a quotation that was attributed

[00:08:01] to Einstein but it has not been authenticated that he actually said it

[00:08:08] it sounds very much like him he said

[00:08:14] that everything is a miracle or nothing is a miracle and we have to think about

[00:08:21] that a while to get the full import in my interpretation I conclude that

[00:08:27] everything that is or was or is to come is a miracle

[00:08:32] I believe that God created the universe including everything that we see on

[00:08:40] earth now that I cannot explain that scientifically but my contention

[00:08:47] is that the science does not explain it either science is very good at what it

[00:08:54] does and it is very poor at explaining big questions like why are are in some

[00:09:03] cases the the purpose in fact it denies

[00:09:08] that there is purpose in the book itself I use lots of quotations some of them

[00:09:16] are from scientists some are from the Bible and some are just quotations from

[00:09:22] from from people who are not scientists for example sure so I like to bring

[00:09:30] together scripture science and life and in that sense I think of the quotation

[00:09:40] that I just gave from Einstein another one that we’re sure that he said that he

[00:09:45] said because it was written down is that science without religion is lame

[00:09:50] religion without science is blind I think there’s a grant quote yes it has

[00:09:57] lots of meaning for me now if you like a quote from a non-scientist Pablo Picasso is attributed to a said

[00:10:06] everything is a miracle it is a miracle that one does not dissolve in one’s bath

[00:10:12] like a lump of sugar that’s funny and so

[00:10:18] in the book miracles I do not try to characterize

[00:10:26] look statements of people of miraculous events I don’t like doubt that they

[00:10:32] occur but my purpose in describing the book as miracles is to go a little

[00:10:39] deeper and and to talk about science and non science together because I think it

[00:10:48] is schizophrenic to believe science compartment it away

[00:10:56] from the rest of one’s life yeah you have to think of it in context with all

[00:11:02] of reality and the purpose of life and where we come from and what happens after we die and these sorts of

[00:11:08] questions right correct and in the book I propose a new word and perhaps this

[00:11:13] would be a way to to introduce the topic a little better many of your audience

[00:11:21] will probably recall that in first and second Kings Elisha and the Israelites

[00:11:30] talked about the worship of fail and in

[00:11:35] those two chat in those two books there is a discussion about many of the

[00:11:40] Israelites who left the worship of God who are added to it and so the word for

[00:11:47] that that theology uses is called syncretism in syncretism reverse refers

[00:11:54] then to the combining of belief systems that are often or even necessarily

[00:12:00] mutually exclusive and worship of bail by the Israelites was it was an example

[00:12:06] of that so I modified that word slightly to sin sigh critism sy n SC IC ret is M

[00:12:17] so that is my view of modern society’s

[00:12:22] distortion of Christianity in which scripture is brought under the yoke and

[00:12:28] power of theories in science yes yes and

[00:12:33] I and I’ve seen that a lot we see that with even different famous scientists who have come to know the Lord but are

[00:12:40] to promote the idea of evolution is that way your is that part of what you’re talking about there yes where there

[00:12:46] seems to be some some discrepancy between what the Bible says and what

[00:12:51] they believe is necessary they they do bow down to the science and and try to

[00:12:59] explain away what the Bible says and so I feel that word since I critism sort of

[00:13:07] describes much of what goes on in our society evolution is not just in science

[00:13:15] evolution has moved into most most of

[00:13:20] our society today there is an influence an inescapable influence toward an

[00:13:28] tythia theology one of the disturbing things in our society today I feel is

[00:13:35] the is the degree to which atheism has

[00:13:42] become very much in your face there was a time when atheists were more agnostic you know he simply said they didn’t know

[00:13:49] but today many of the prominent scientists and I won’t name them actually ridicule the idea that there is

[00:14:00] a God or that and accept evolution without really ever thinking about it

[00:14:07] without critical thinking yeah you know my my guest today is dr. Olin Browne he is professor emeritus at the University

[00:14:13] of Missouri and we’re gonna come right back we’re gonna continue this discussion and we’re going to talk about why he is so opposed to the idea of

[00:14:21] evolution from a scientific perspective as well as the combining of evolution with theology with the Bible they do not

[00:14:29] go together and so stay with us we’re going to be right back ooh Gibson of lg equipment supports

[00:14:38] educate for life with Kevin Conover Luke grew up in the construction industry and now serves LG’s commercial and

[00:14:44] residential customers throughout Southern California whether you need grading paving hauling demolition onsite bulk water service

[00:14:51] water trucks tankers and towers call LG equipment at six one nine nine nine

[00:14:56] eight zero nine two four learn more at LG equipment comm six one

[00:15:01] nine nine nine eight zero nine two four when you need tires are serviced count

[00:15:07] on conover tires wheels and service in oceanside for a full range of affordable options and all the brands you trust see

[00:15:13] their great customer reviews that special offers online hours Tuesday through Friday 7:30 to 5:30 and

[00:15:19] Saturdays 7:30 to 5:00 called Dan and his team at seven six zero four three nine sixteen thirty one Conover tires

[00:15:26] wheels and service 24:05 Oceanside Boulevard in Oceanside 76 0:43 916 31 hi this is Jason hall

[00:15:36] president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Kahn

[00:15:42] over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher

[00:15:47] while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of

[00:15:53] our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support kevin and his show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will

[00:15:59] continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life

[00:16:04] teachings thank you Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans

[00:16:09] [Music] [Applause]

[00:16:14] thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover and we’re streaming all over the

[00:16:20] place we’re on Facebook we’re on youtube or on our website we’re on periscope so we’re all over the

[00:16:26] place please spread the word if you find this radio program this podcast encouraging and uplifting and

[00:16:32] interesting please spread the word and give us likes as some thumbs up and feel free to comment too if you want to get

[00:16:39] if you have a question that you want to address to our guest today dr. Brown please feel free to type that in and I’d

[00:16:46] love to give him the opportunity to answer some of your questions and he is a microbiologist he has a PhD in

[00:16:52] microbiology he’s also a board-certified toxicologist I’ve never interviewed an expert on poisons and but it’s a pretty

[00:17:00] pretty cool and dr. Brown I was looking up something really interesting I saw an

[00:17:06] article on how frogs poisonous frogs actually resist their own poison or

[00:17:13] survive their own poison which I thought was really interesting tell us give us a little bit of your background how did

[00:17:19] you get into toxicology well my background my interest in science has

[00:17:25] always been very broad I microbiology itself incorporates biochemistry

[00:17:31] microbiology physiology a lot of medical sciences the original microbiologist

[00:17:37] probably we may know of those that we know came to microbiology from another

[00:17:44] field primarily from chemistry for example and so I get got interested in

[00:17:51] toxicology because I was interested in the molecule oxygen we all know that

[00:17:58] oxygen is in the air around us and is required for our lives

[00:18:03] and the oxygen is also classified by the

[00:18:09] FDA as a drug because it can be used and we probably all know that under certain

[00:18:16] conditions pure oxygen is given at higher concentrations it’s in the air at

[00:18:21] 20% which is perfect for us walking around under disease conditions

[00:18:28] pure oxygen may be required or even oxygen under pressure can be given and

[00:18:35] interestingly to me oxygen at increased concentrations and pressures actually

[00:18:42] becomes toxic and understanding how something that is absolutely essential

[00:18:48] at high concentrations can become poisonous it gives us an insight into

[00:18:54] much of the body the way the body in the cell does its metabolism in its

[00:19:00] biochemistry now no dr. Brown somebody might a skeptic might say well how can you say that a good God would

[00:19:07] create a world in which there are poisons how would you respond to somebody that said something like that

[00:19:12] well well the simplest answer is

[00:19:18] probably a little surprising everything is a poison the founder of the science

[00:19:26] of toxicology that is his most famous statement that it is only the dose that

[00:19:34] makes the difference when you take a medicine prescribed by a physician that

[00:19:41] medicine is actually probably most cases palacios it does something very specific

[00:19:49] and has to correct those it simply regulates or corrects or reduces a bad

[00:19:56] reaction or restores a process so

[00:20:03] whether something is toxic or not simply depends on the dose I gave an example

[00:20:09] being oxygen oxygen actually at high

[00:20:14] concentrations can kill a person with with when you put them in a chamber and

[00:20:21] raise the pressure it becomes deadly and actually the oxygen that one requires in

[00:20:29] with each breath actually is capable of doing some damage the body has it’s a

[00:20:38] delicate mechanism of tight rope in the in the whole biochemistry if you look at the

[00:20:45] way things work they when they get out of balance it’s when we have disease could I give one little example here

[00:20:52] that might be of some interest to your to your audience absolutely it is often

[00:20:58] said that we can we can live for for many days without food we can live a few

[00:21:06] days without water but we can only live a few minutes without oxygen but as I

[00:21:13] said earlier oxygen at high concentrations unnatural that can be harmful to it now the there was a it is

[00:21:26] true and perhaps a little bit surprising to realize that the next breath that you

[00:21:36] take or I take or anyone in your audience takes the likelihood is that

[00:21:41] one or two atoms of oxygen that was in the last breath of Christ on the cross

[00:21:50] one molecule or two from that last breath of Christ is probably in the

[00:21:56] oxygen that you breathe in the next breath you take Wow even though I’m even

[00:22:02] though I’m not in the Middle East correct this reason is God made all of

[00:22:09] the oxygen atoms at one time when he made them there have been no new oxygen

[00:22:16] molecules created science is in agreement on that whether you’re an atheist or or a Christian well that’s

[00:22:22] very interesting so I mean from you know what so an evolutionist typically is

[00:22:28] going to say I guess that oxygen evolved chemically evolved over time have you

[00:22:37] had a lot of discussions with evolutionists about this sort of thing have you had these kind of dialogues about the impossibility of how yes and

[00:22:44] it’s a little bit complex I think I’ll make example yeah oxygen atom is one thing a molecule of

[00:22:52] oxygen is two atoms put together Oh – yeah so the molecule

[00:22:59] of oxygen is what is recycled and reused and is made by photosynthesis so we have

[00:23:06] new molecules molecules of oxygen but we have no new atoms the atoms were made

[00:23:14] and I’m not sure of this myself but the the Big Bang Theory tells us that oxygen

[00:23:21] was created in stars so some people use the analogy isn’t it great that a star

[00:23:29] had to be born and had to explode a star had to die to scatter the molecules the

[00:23:39] elements that it that were synthesized by nucleus senses by reactions of the

[00:23:44] star and that star had to die to produce the substance from which we are created

[00:23:50] now whether that’s true or not the Bible doesn’t say but that is what is caught

[00:23:56] if as far as we know all kinds of oxygen

[00:24:02] were synthesized were created in some star and subsequently that star exploded

[00:24:09] and the substance the star dust if you will collected and is what our planet

[00:24:17] was made from the point I’m making here with oxygen atoms is that they are very

[00:24:23] permanent and but they are extremely small there are as many molecules I’m

[00:24:32] talking molecules now of oxygen in a deep breath that you may take at this

[00:24:38] moment there are as many molecules of oxygen as there are stars in the

[00:24:44] universe yeah that’s incredible that’s what makes the fact that they’re permanent and that there’s so many of

[00:24:50] them and that over the 2,000 years since Christ there they have been well mixed

[00:24:57] well but it brings out a point that I like to make is that malas and atoms are

[00:25:06] extremely extremely small almost humble and to believe that they were all that

[00:25:18] though here by chance and that their particular characteristics oxygen is different from every other atom it has

[00:25:25] exactly the characteristics that it needs to allow us to convert our food

[00:25:31] into substance and to the energy of life and if we have time perhaps we could

[00:25:38] come to that in maybe in the next section and talk about the energy of

[00:25:43] life in relation to oxygen and our miraculous it is yeah absolutely and and

[00:25:49] the energy of life when you talk about the energy of life what are you talking about specifically I’m talking about something called ATP many of your

[00:25:56] audience may have heard that word adenosine triphosphate it stands for its ATP it’s like the energy source it’s

[00:26:03] like a battery that gets charged it’s a molecule in your cell every cell that I

[00:26:08] know of uses this as the energy source for for change and for creation and for

[00:26:15] building the structure of the cell and for the energy of motion it’s the energy

[00:26:21] by which our brain functions it’s the energy source of life fantastic my guest

[00:26:26] today is dr. Olin Browne he’s a microbiologist and a toxicologist and he has credentials through the roof

[00:26:32] so if you are he does not believe that evolution scientifically can be justified and so he has the the

[00:26:40] credentials to be able to give his opinion and his his thoughts on this so stay with us we’re gonna be right back

[00:26:45] we’re gonna talk about ATP and why it’s so unlikely that evolution could produce

[00:26:50] this kind of biological system we’ll be right back before I bring my knee I will bring my

[00:26:58] heart [Music] Fastlane kayaking sells popular Hopi cat

[00:27:04] kayaks that you pedal not paddle that means your hands are left free for fishing and fun just throw these on your

[00:27:10] roof rack they’re light and they’re easy to use and maintain just rinse them off try one free on a demo ride for 36 years

[00:27:17] Ron and Debbie Lane has served San Diego with fun family-friendly watersports of all kinds learn more fast lane sailing

[00:27:24] calm six one nine two two two zero seven sixty-six hi this is Jason hall

[00:27:30] president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Kahn

[00:27:35] over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher

[00:27:40] while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of

[00:27:46] our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and prayer that you will

[00:27:51] continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you Kevin from the hall

[00:27:58] family and team home loans educate for life helps you build your life on the rock LG equipment helps builders build

[00:28:04] on good soil Luc Gibson’s team at LG equipment is your local source for grading demolition hauling and more

[00:28:10] learn about their bulk water services from trucks to tankers to towers at rent water tower com get your questions

[00:28:16] answered call LG equipment at six one nine nine eight eight zero nine two four learn more at LG equipment comm six one

[00:28:24] nine nine eight eight zero nine two four when you need tires are serviced count on conover tires wheels and service in

[00:28:31] oceanside for a full range of affordable options at all the brands you trust see their great customer reviews that

[00:28:37] special offers online hours Tuesday through Friday 7:30 to 5:30 and Saturdays 7:30 to 5:00 called Dan and

[00:28:44] his team of seven six zero four three nine sixteen thirty one Conover tires wheels and service 24:05 oceanside

[00:28:52] boulevard in oceanside seven six zero four three nine sixteen thirty one

[00:29:04] thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover if you like what you’re hearing today you can check out more programs

[00:29:10] I have many interviews with scientists including scientists like astrophysicist

[00:29:16] dr. Jason Lisle dr. James Tor one of the ranked one of the top 50 scientists in the world many others meteorologists and

[00:29:26] and geologists and so many different scientists who give their perspective on

[00:29:31] creation and the fact that they look at creation they look at nature and they go

[00:29:37] you know what there there must be god there’s no way that what we see around us could all be the product of just the

[00:29:46] natural laws of physics and you know there’s a there’s a view out there today a skeptics agnostics agnostics atheists

[00:29:52] who will say look at the natural laws of physics the natural laws of chemistry just essentially pulled life together

[00:30:00] and made all of our bodies and everything work together all of nature that we see around us just came together

[00:30:06] through these these natural laws of physics but dr. Brown I wanted to ask

[00:30:11] you you know you’ve been doing this for a long time how long have you been you

[00:30:17] know a scientist in a professor and and working in in scientific research well three parts of five decades I

[00:30:25] actually went to graduate school finished my doctorate in 1964 Wow and so

[00:30:32] you you have been doing this for a really long time and you’ve you told me off the air that you accepted Christ

[00:30:38] when you were a teenager when did you first come into conflict with you know

[00:30:43] yourself having to make a decision between creation and evolution and what

[00:30:50] was that like and and my question is throughout your career I’m sure you’ve come

[00:30:56] you know head-to-head with people who you know passionately believe the opposite that there is no creator and

[00:31:01] that evolution produced everything can you give us how do you respond to those issues and and you know how has that

[00:31:09] impacted your faith well I grew up in a rural community a small small high school evolution was

[00:31:18] not pushed either in the school system in those days and it was not addressed

[00:31:25] in any way in the church where I was it was not till I actually it occurred a

[00:31:33] little bit in graduate school not with me directly but there was another student who had some problems because of

[00:31:40] his religion none of it impacted me I didn’t think

[00:31:45] that much about evolution it wasn’t critical or central to any of the tests

[00:31:53] or studies better than I actually had done to go it really didn’t come to

[00:32:02] focus with me until I was teaching at the University of Missouri and that came

[00:32:09] about because of a group of people brought in some evolutionist who

[00:32:17] challenged the faculty to our own subject creation and religion and I was

[00:32:25] asked to be on a panel that was to to reflect the views of the creationist

[00:32:33] evolutionist so I didn’t myself speak so that was the beginning of my

[00:32:39] introduction partially to people who were extremely critical of anyone who

[00:32:45] claimed to be science and had any belief in other than evolution I spoke to some

[00:32:53] churches after that over a period of time and wrote my book and other things

[00:32:59] unfortunately I was never challenged or

[00:33:05] are never penalized at the University but certainly most of my colleagues were

[00:33:12] people that I just didn’t have conference conversations with about this subject because it would bring up a lot

[00:33:19] of conflict yes they were very closed to it actually I found that I found my my own

[00:33:27] personal experience that evolution does not really impact the work that one does

[00:33:33] is scientist unless you are writing on the subject of evolution it doesn’t

[00:33:40] affect the way you do experiments in microbiology or biochemistry or anything else as far as I can see and most of my

[00:33:49] colleagues were not very knowledgeable about what what is required in order to

[00:33:57] believe and understand evolution I’m a mechanism person as a scientist you know

[00:34:04] if you tell me something I say I want to know if you know how what is the

[00:34:09] mechanism by which it occurs so you don’t want to hear you don’t want to hear a good story you want to you wanna know how it actually works the details

[00:34:15] correct and as we know the simplistic explanation for Darwinian evolution the

[00:34:25] biological end of it is change or in

[00:34:30] modern terms mutations and selection

[00:34:36] environmental selection yeah natural selection and if you look at those they’re both well mutations are

[00:34:44] certainly able to produce change they are completely incapable of producing

[00:34:50] the kinds of changes the magnitude of changes that are needed to create

[00:34:58] spontaneously life from non-life and many evolutionists believe that they

[00:35:05] just put the beginning of life off the table yeah they say they’ll say

[00:35:12] something like abiogenesis does not pertain to Darwinian evolution and just because we don’t know how abiogenesis

[00:35:18] works doesn’t mean that natural selection and undirected mutation produces all the life we’ve seen today

[00:35:25] right I see I think you’ve heard that before yes could I mention something

[00:35:31] about George Wald yeah go for a three guard yeah I believe Wald

[00:35:37] I’d in the late 90s 1997 perhaps I was fortunate to meet him he was a great man

[00:35:43] unfortunately I don’t think he was a Christian I’m not judging him from what

[00:35:49] he wrote one of the things that is important to our conversation perhaps

[00:35:55] here is that he said that the reasonable view is to believe that spontaneous generation it double even spontaneous

[00:36:03] generation the only alternative is to believe in a single primary act of

[00:36:08] supernatural creation so he obviously didn’t believe are we short on time oh

[00:36:15] no we’re good we’ve got we’re about three minutes in this segment and then we’ve got a whole nother 10 minutes okay

[00:36:20] so he came to the conclusion in order to

[00:36:25] assimilate evolution thought into his science he made this statement this is

[00:36:33] not me talking this is George Wald a scientist time is the hero of the plot for evolution given enough time the

[00:36:41] impossible becomes possible the possible becomes probable the probable becomes

[00:36:48] virtually certain now I do you see the distortion that is necessary yeah that

[00:36:55] sounds like a really good salesman right there nothing is impossible because it

[00:37:01] becomes possible why because there’s a miracle and he actually talks about time

[00:37:07] as working the miracle and that’s why evolutionists require

[00:37:14] more time than they’ve been able to discover because when we talk about

[00:37:20] probability probabilities relate strongly to the element of the number of

[00:37:28] chances that you have to try and try and try again and and so evolution

[00:37:35] absolutely has a miracle worker to miracle workers one is an enormous

[00:37:43] amount of time and the other that’s why

[00:37:48] I sometimes refer through that it’s five and his colleague chance so time and

[00:37:55] chance together can create without purpose everything that we see all of

[00:38:05] the atoms the universe and ourselves they are totally without purpose

[00:38:12] full of sound in fury and signifying nothing if you believe in evolution yeah

[00:38:18] it’s it’s amazing to me I mean what you’re saying is absolutely true that in

[00:38:24] order to be an evolutionist you actually have to believe in miracles which is contrary to your materialist philosophy

[00:38:30] you have to believe in this miracle that happened but then we do have people out

[00:38:36] there that are like theistic evolutionists who say hey God guided the whole process and so I do believe in

[00:38:43] miracles God’s the miracle maker but he used evolution to do it and we we left off the last segment talking about ATP

[00:38:49] and we never got to at this segment so we’re coming up on a break here but but let’s talk about ATP and why you think

[00:38:56] that this speaks against the possibility of Darwinian evolution not for it when

[00:39:02] we get back yeah my guest is dr. Olin Browne he’s a microbiologist and toxicologist he’s been doing science as

[00:39:08] a professor and a research scientist for 50 years if you can believe that so stay

[00:39:13] tuned we’re gonna be right back [Music]

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[00:40:16] hi this is jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending i just want to take this

[00:40:22] opportunity to thank Kevin Kahn over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as

[00:40:28] being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important

[00:40:34] it is to be defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and

[00:40:40] prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you

[00:40:47] Kevin from the hall family and team home loans

[00:40:55] listen today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover and I hope you’ve enjoyed the program so far we’re

[00:41:01] interviewing dr. Olin Browne he’s the author of a book titled miracles and he’s not actually authenticating

[00:41:07] miracles like walking on water or people being raised from the dead or healings in the book miracles he’s actually

[00:41:13] discussing the fact that everything we see around us from science is itself a miracle because the chances of it

[00:41:20] happening by itself are so astronomically small that it’s got to be

[00:41:25] a miracle either like he quoted earlier possibly a quote from Einstein either

[00:41:31] everything’s a miracle or nothing’s a miracle and I definitely personally from the interviews I’ve done and from my own

[00:41:37] looking into things it seems pretty overwhelmingly obvious that everything is clearly a miracle and

[00:41:43] dr. Brown we were talking in the second segment about ATP can you expand on ATP

[00:41:50] and why that’s an argument for creation yes and before I do that at my mind I

[00:41:56] would like to mention one thing that I do think of that that sort of fits but he doesn’t thank you think with the ATP

[00:42:03] but let’s put it in here sir everyone knows about the great scientist

[00:42:08] Newton and like many scientists as day he was a believer I written was born

[00:42:16] actually on Christmas Day in 1642 there’s a story about Newton I’m not

[00:42:24] sure it is true I think it could have been through and it sounded very much like him the story goes something like

[00:42:31] this an atheist trend was looking at a scale model of the solar system that was

[00:42:37] owned by Newton and the friend Ashton who made this wonderful model and

[00:42:44] Newton’s answer was that no one made it it made itself that’s great and and his

[00:42:53] friend would not accept that of course but he accepted his being an atheist the

[00:42:59] not the model but the whole thing now am i good having made itself that’s a crack-up that makes me want to go out

[00:43:05] and get a model of solar system that’s well turning to ATP ATP is a designation for something

[00:43:14] called adenosine triphosphate it is a small molecule that has in the bonds of

[00:43:21] the molecule stored energy this energy makes the molecule something like a

[00:43:27] battery it’s the universal source of energy for life whether you’re a

[00:43:33] bacterial cell whether you’re a tree or whether you’re a human the ATP is small molecule it moves

[00:43:41] around where it’s needed and like a little battery it gives up its energy to

[00:43:47] cause an energy requiring reaction to take place now ATP is a small molecule

[00:43:55] we only have about a tenth of a pound of this miraculous substance in every set

[00:44:02] around our body only a tenth of a pound but we use about 400 pounds a day what

[00:44:09] can that be it’s recharged it’s reused it’s restored and oxygen is

[00:44:16] one of the elements along with the sugar and other elements in our body that

[00:44:23] takes energy out of one molecule puts it into the ATP the ATP can hand it off to

[00:44:29] allow other reactions and to drive those reactions the life itself lose around

[00:44:34] this so 1/10 of a dam is all we have but

[00:44:40] the total amount that we use in a day is 400 pounds so that means it’s recharged

[00:44:47] and recharging of ATP requires certain

[00:44:52] specific enzymes and these these enzymes that are involved in this

[00:44:59] miraculous process that allows our brain to function allows babies to grain gain

[00:45:06] mass and some are old people to chain mash and allows their brain to function as I said and our bodies to move the

[00:45:13] 100-yard dash is run on ATP and our brain runs

[00:45:19] on a teepee now what good no my question was that so in order for life to exist

[00:45:26] you have to have all these ATP and the process of ATP being developed and so

[00:45:32] forth this all has to exist all at once it can’t exist through this Darwinian explanation of a slow process I mean all

[00:45:40] of these enzymes that you’re talking about have to all exist all at once all at the same time in order for this process to work isn’t that correct

[00:45:47] almost correct it and following you is is proper but we can have a sequential

[00:45:54] of some of these things don’t have to be there at the beginning but it is true

[00:46:01] that there has to be an organized complexification the complexity from the

[00:46:09] simplest possible living cell up through a memphis cellular cell system to a

[00:46:16] human is a process according to evolution

[00:46:22] and there are so many of these things that are interdependent that have to be

[00:46:29] has to occur at one time or next in the sequence they cannot be random there

[00:46:38] would be it would be impossible in my view for us to arrive at the complexity

[00:46:44] required if we have it we have time this relates back for example to the idea of

[00:46:52] enzymes that we talked about briefly the enzymes are specific protein molecules

[00:46:59] they are large molecules they are made of something called individual amino

[00:47:04] acids its individual components that have to be put together in a specific

[00:47:10] sequence there may be hundreds of these required if we get one of them wrong the

[00:47:17] protein is non-functional and this brings us to what you wrote about in

[00:47:24] your article you wrote here time for a Gedanken can you explain to a to our listeners what a Gedanken is a Gedanken

[00:47:31] was one of the favorite things that einstein enjoyed Einstein didn’t have a laboratory he didn’t experiment he had a

[00:47:38] blackboard and a lot of papers the messy office and the clear mind and a Gedanken

[00:47:44] is a german word through essentially means it can be a noun or verb but it

[00:47:50] actually means in this context a thought experiment let us think together about

[00:47:55] something so that’s what I sort of asked your audience to do is a large Gedanken

[00:48:01] today to sit down and reason together the Bible says that configured ANCA

[00:48:07] let’s talk together about things that we don’t understand and certainly scientists we don’t understand

[00:48:13] everything but by thinking and banking to get banking together we can make some

[00:48:19] some progress in pushing light into the dark world around us and knowing a

[00:48:24] little more and as the Bible says we understand and see minimally today but

[00:48:32] in the future sometime we will see more clearly and so when you break when you we are

[00:48:38] coming up or we’re almost to the end of our program here but when you use this Gedanken for you the conclusion is

[00:48:45] overwhelmingly that evolution cannot produce what what we’re expected to what

[00:48:51] the claim they claim that it it you know identifies all two million species of animals and this this is where all the

[00:48:57] trees came all the plants came from all the insects came from and your your in your view there’s just no way there’s in

[00:49:04] a way evolution has the power to explain minor changes I myself have seen

[00:49:10] bacteria in a tube in a test tube change in minor ways they never become anything

[00:49:16] other than the same species of bacteria I can see no power in what we know as a

[00:49:23] mechanism of of change that could create

[00:49:29] complex life forms by the simplistic mechanisms that Darwin envisioned or the

[00:49:37] modern interpretations in terms of gene mutation gene mutations do occur they

[00:49:42] they can cause small changes but they don’t they don’t introduce complexification toward new species okay

[00:49:51] well this has been a real blessing having you on the show today dr. Brown and if if somebody wants to learn more

[00:49:59] about this kind of stuff from you do they just have to you know can they get

[00:50:04] ahold of you in any way or is there any way to reach out or yes my website is on

[00:50:10] it if you put in my name I will come up art I looked at my article on

[00:50:16] intelligent design they could contact me the last thing I would say real quickly is it’s the greatest miracle of all is

[00:50:24] Christ salvation all right amen amen that’s absolutely the truth if you’re

[00:50:30] listening today you know whether we prove evolution wrong or not you know

[00:50:36] there’s a greater issue and the greater issue is have you met Jesus Christ he wants to pay for your sins he died on

[00:50:43] the cross for you so that you have don’t have to face the judgment of God that you can be forgiven through the through grace

[00:50:49] and through faith in Jesus Christ and so all of this discussion is ultimately

[00:50:54] only to point you towards Jesus Christ so if you haven’t turned your life over to Christ I encourage you to get to know

[00:51:01] God read the book of John if you haven’t read the Bible yet read read John chapter 3 and begin to get to know the

[00:51:08] Lord Jesus Christ so dr. Brown again I just want to thank you so much for being on the program with us and you know we

[00:51:14] might end up doing a program number two sometime wonderful I would enjoy knowing you thank you

[00:51:20] thank you and thanks for all you listening out there this program will re-air on our website it will be up on

[00:51:25] youtube it’ll be up on the radio this weekend and if you’re tuning in San

[00:51:31] Diego County we’re on Cape Rays 12:10 a.m. as well as we’re also on a new

[00:51:36] station FM 106.1 in North County so please tune in and check it out otherwise we’ve got all kinds of

[00:51:42] resources for you on our website educate for life org and tons of classes up

[00:51:47] there on science and the Bible that will encourage you and inspire you to know the truth of God’s Word so thanks again

[00:51:53] for being with us today I hope you have a great day did you miss part of today’s program don’t worry we’re committed to helping

[00:51:59] you get the info you need okay that was dumb but for real visit educate for life

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