[00:00:00] [Music] thanks for being here today I’m your host Kevin Conover you listen to educate

[00:00:06] for life radio and if you’re streaming us we’re all over Facebook and YouTube and our own website and everywhere and

[00:00:12] what we’re gonna be talking to today about is Andrew Cuomo and the fact that New York now on the anniversary of Roe

[00:00:19] vs. Wade back in 1973 on the anniversary of Roe vs. Wade is now legalizing

[00:00:24] abortion up till nine months right up until birth and so what’s going on here how is this happening why in the world

[00:00:31] would would the governor do such a thing why would he make this decision it’s

[00:00:37] interesting how contradictory the views of those who support abortion are and so

[00:00:43] we’re just going to tackle this issue and touch on it and what I really want to do is focus on some good arguments

[00:00:48] that you can give as this is brought up in conversation for why abortion should not be legal it shouldn’t be legal at

[00:00:55] all but what we really nine months late term abortion is unbelievable that this

[00:01:02] has become legal again it was legalized earlier a few years back but but here in

[00:01:10] New York this is happening I’m guessing that to a large extent the reason this is happening is because of the fear of

[00:01:15] having so many US Supreme Court justices who are conservative who would potentially overturn Roe vs. Wade and if

[00:01:23] you’ve been keeping up on this you know that andrew Cuomo the governor of New York signed this into law saying that

[00:01:29] abortion can be legal up until nine months right before birth prior to this it was six months and it was legal up to

[00:01:38] that now the law states for any reason in which a doctor judges that that for

[00:01:44] the health of the mother actually the law specifically does not limit abortions to just doctors but also to

[00:01:52] other people’s like mid midwives or nurses or whatever may be the case so

[00:01:57] they’ve really lowered the bar when it comes to abortion they’re really fueling this fire so where is this coming from

[00:02:03] and what do we do about it so this is a battle that’s been waging on and on and on ever since Roe vs. Wade in 1973 you

[00:02:11] may or may not know that rrrow in Roe versus Wade the woman who

[00:02:16] was used as a tool to get abortion to become legally to become legal from a

[00:02:22] federal perspective today no longer agrees with abortion and is a Christian and she was ultimately led to Christ by

[00:02:30] a group that did not agree was protesting outside of abortion clinics

[00:02:36] and she ended up coming to Jesus Christ through the testimony of Flip Benham who

[00:02:45] was the leader of Operation Rescue and anyway long story short she made friends

[00:02:53] with a little girl that used to come to the protest outside of the abortion clinic that little girl basically

[00:02:59] whenever Roe would think about abortion and she’d see this little girl it broke

[00:03:05] her heart because she fell in love with this little girl who was on the other side the little girl was actually with

[00:03:10] her mother protesting abortion and through the the love of that little girl Roe ended up

[00:03:16] coming to know Christ and abandon her view of evolution so what do we do about

[00:03:22] this and how do we discuss it because this is going to come up people are going to be talking about this it’s a it’s a hot issue now it’s in the news

[00:03:28] and this is an opportunity for those of you who know the Lord to talk intelligently about the issue and begin

[00:03:34] to persuade people that that this is not the right way to go so I want to start

[00:03:39] off with a real quick test it’s an acronym you can use in order to help

[00:03:46] people recognize why this is not right it’s called the sled test I actually got

[00:03:51] this from Greg cocoa and sled stands for size level of development environment

[00:03:59] and degree of dependency so what we’re talking about here is does the size of

[00:04:05] an individual determine their worth is our value based on how big or how small

[00:04:10] we are and we know the answer is no a small person is not worth less than a big

[00:04:17] person now of course from a utilitarian perspective from a perspective of what we would call extrinsic worth you might

[00:04:25] have somebody who’s strong than somebody else or somebody that’s bigger and can reach higher right in basketball obviously somebody who’s

[00:04:31] taller all things being equal is gonna be chosen for a basketball team versus

[00:04:38] somebody who’s smaller unless they can make up with it make up for it by being quicker or something like that so from an extrinsic perspective sure

[00:04:45] that person’s more valuable from a utilitarian perspective but their worth

[00:04:50] as an individual as a human being is not impacted by their size whether they’re big or they’re small so that’s the first

[00:04:57] letter in the acronym S stands for size the second one is level of development

[00:05:03] so now what we’re talking about is does a person’s level of development from you

[00:05:10] know zygote to senior citizen does that change their value as a human being and

[00:05:19] again we’re talking about intrinsic worth the inherent worth of an individual versus their utilitarian

[00:05:27] value now this is a really important one because some people would say yeah their

[00:05:33] value does change they’re in they would even say their intrinsic value changes because if you’re not contributing to

[00:05:39] society then you’re worth less than somebody who is contributing to society

[00:05:44] or if you’re a criminal you’re worth less than somebody who is not a criminal

[00:05:52] somebody might say so here’s the thing though we have to be really careful

[00:05:57] about basing a person’s value on what they contribute or don’t contribute to

[00:06:03] society or to anything because once we begin to go down that road and we begin

[00:06:09] to say that people are more or less valuable depending upon how they contribute to my life or to society

[00:06:16] their inherent Worth changes right then what happens is you begin to you begin

[00:06:23] to look at this as okay you are a lesser person because you do not do as much as

[00:06:28] I do for for a job or whatever it might be

[00:06:34] now from an employee standpoint an employer standpoint of course this is true because you have a goal

[00:06:40] to make money order to help your business thrive or to help people or whatever it might be if you’re in a

[00:06:46] charity and you have one person that works really hard you have another person that doesn’t work at all well of course from an extrinsic

[00:06:52] perspective you’re gonna say okay yeah this person person’s worth more to me than this person but if we look at it

[00:06:58] from the perspective of their inherent worth as a human then we would say no

[00:07:04] what you do is not dependent your value is not dependent I don’t love you more

[00:07:09] because you do more so in in my family for example just because maybe one of my

[00:07:16] children gets better grades than the other one doesn’t change my love for the child that doesn’t do as well or maybe

[00:07:23] one’s a better athlete than the other one doesn’t change my my feelings towards them I still have the same love

[00:07:29] for them and we all understand that’s a moral good that’s why the the Declaration states that all men are

[00:07:37] created equal all women and men are created equal and so you know we can we

[00:07:43] can approach this with somebody who does not believe in the Bible from a biblical perspective it’s very clear the Bible

[00:07:50] says there is no Jew or Greek there is no slave or free there is no male or female we’re all one in Christ but how

[00:07:56] do I talk to somebody who doesn’t believe in the Bible how do I talk to somebody who doesn’t know the Lord who doesn’t know God well we can still make

[00:08:04] the case that it is a moral good to treat people equally regardless of their

[00:08:10] performance regardless of their quote level of development right so if I have

[00:08:16] a two year old is that two year old intrinsically worth less than somebody

[00:08:22] who’s 25 remember intrinsic value is their inherent worth extrinsic value is

[00:08:28] their performance it’s their worth from their performance so once you begin to

[00:08:35] say that a person is only valuable based on what they provide for me or for

[00:08:40] society you’re going down a very very scary Road because there’s always going

[00:08:46] to be somebody who contributes more than you do and where is that going to put you on the scale of value okay so

[00:08:54] idea that bases its value of people strictly on what that person does for

[00:08:59] them or contributes to society is very soon gonna have a very very dangerous

[00:09:06] and oppressive society all you have to do is look at in India where they have the caste system the caste system says

[00:09:14] on the bottom caste The Untouchables is worth nothing right and then the highest

[00:09:20] castes are worth much more you have the priestly class and you have

[00:09:25] the merchant class and you have all these and the Hindu system basically does that does that exact thing and well

[00:09:31] what do we see we see incredible amounts of oppression and pain and suffering because of this idea that people are not

[00:09:40] all equal they’re only equal to the extent that they contribute similar

[00:09:45] makes similar contributions to culture and society this is a bad bad direction

[00:09:51] to go and Andrew Cuomo’s decision to allow abortion up to nine months is

[00:09:57] exactly that what he’s arguing in that that decision is this little baby that’s

[00:10:04] nine months old which it is a baby right nobody would deny that it’s a baby nobody with any logic or science would

[00:10:11] deny that it’s a baby that that baby is only is not valuable simply because it

[00:10:18] is not contributing to society or it is not making the mother happy right the

[00:10:24] mother has the right to get rid of the baby because it’s not satisfying her it’s not making her happy and what I’m

[00:10:30] arguing right now and what I think you should argue also is that this is a very

[00:10:36] very dangerous direction for culture and society to go American culture in the long run it’s going to make things a lot

[00:10:42] worse off for everyone and so we have to find a better solution than this okay so

[00:10:49] what we’re discussing today is Andrew Cuomo’s decision in New York to allow abortion up to nine months and how we

[00:10:58] can respond to this with those family members who are maybe on the fence or completely disagree with us how do we

[00:11:04] persuade them that this is not a good thing taking place here stay with us we’re

[00:11:09] gonna be right back [Music]

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[00:12:17] hey thanks for being here today you’re on education for life radio with Kevin Conover that’s me and this program airs

[00:12:24] locally in San Diego on a couple of different radio stations kay prz and

[00:12:29] also in North County and you can tune in on the radio we air on Sundays but we

[00:12:35] also record these shows they get up on our podcast you can check us out youtube.com forward slash educate for

[00:12:41] life video we’ve got all kinds of shows up there very interesting shows with all kinds of experts I did interview awhile

[00:12:47] back I’d interviewed College Area pregnancy services we talked about this nurse Heidi Cessna as well as Julie

[00:12:54] Fowler the president of caps here in San Diego and that the abortion wars raged

[00:12:59] on here so the the latest of course is Andrew Cuomo who has legalized abortion

[00:13:04] in New York up til nine months prior to this it was six months and you know it’s crazy in New York you can’t give a

[00:13:10] lethal injection to criminals but you can give it to infants and it’s

[00:13:16] absolutely contradictory hypocritical and and just outright crazy talk about

[00:13:22] leaving logic behind it’s unbelievable so you know a Cuomo called a historic

[00:13:29] victory for New Yorkers New Yorkers and for our progressive values and it was done on the anniversary of Roe vs. Wade

[00:13:35] which by the way most people think was bad case law including abortion

[00:13:41] advocates like Peter singer of one of the Peter singer has very controversial

[00:13:48] views on abortion but the New York Catholic Bishops are really upset about

[00:13:55] this as well as other well-meaning Catholics for the move he he said he was

[00:14:00] a Catholic Andrew Cuomo said he was a Catholic and this is what Albertine Bishop revered Edward Scharffen Berger

[00:14:08] said your advocacy of extreme abortion legislation is completely contrary to

[00:14:14] the teachings of our Pope and our church he said I shudder to think of the consequences this law will wreak you

[00:14:22] have already uttered harsh threats about the welcome you think pro lifers are not entitled to in our state now you are

[00:14:28] demonstrating that you mean to right your warning into law well being pro-life one day be a hate crime in the

[00:14:34] state of New York it’s it’s just you know New York is also the state that

[00:14:40] first legalized abortion in 1970 and you know part of me thinks the reason that

[00:14:46] this is happening is because they’re the Democrats and those on the left are

[00:14:52] worried about the the federal laws regarding abortion because there’s so

[00:14:58] many conservative Supreme Court justices now on the on the bench kavanah being

[00:15:03] the most recent and as well as a bunch of other ones that are a conservative and could potentially overturn Roe vs.

[00:15:12] Wade so the the reality is is how do we

[00:15:18] deal with this I said in our last segment that the acronym sled is a great thing to remember when you want to have

[00:15:24] a conversation with somebody about this issue so S stands for size L stands for level of development East Anne’s for

[00:15:31] environment this is our third one so from an environment perspective does our

[00:15:37] value as a human being change based on our environment meaning where I live

[00:15:44] does my value change now the truth of the matter is is that you don’t have the same rights if you live in China as you

[00:15:50] do if you live in America as you do if you live in Saudi Arabia or wherever you you might live the reality is is you

[00:15:58] don’t have the same rights but does your worth actually change my worth inherent

[00:16:03] Worth does not change based on my environment if I cross the street my value doesn’t change now it may have

[00:16:10] changed to other people but my inherent value doesn’t change as a human being and Robert what do you what do you think

[00:16:17] about that yeah so the reason this is so important with regards to the sled test and the e being environment is because

[00:16:24] what is the difference between a fetus two days before birth or a newborn baby

[00:16:29] two days after birth there’s virtually no difference like babies are developing all the time but there’s not very much

[00:16:36] difference in those four days at all or you could even say one day before birth one birth one day after birth yeah but

[00:16:41] now according to this law you kill them one day before but one day after it is the crime of killing a human

[00:16:48] so why is it a crime of murdering a human one day after birth but like of the exact same being who is barely

[00:16:56] different at all they’re just in a different environment they’re in the womb versus out of the womb yeah down a

[00:17:02] birth canal yeah and that logically that makes absolutely no sense there’s no leg to stand on for that being the

[00:17:08] definition of what is a life or a valuable I find it puzzling I mean I know so many people that support

[00:17:16] abortion and I find it puzzling how they can logically claim to have the logical

[00:17:21] high ground on this issue when it makes absolutely no sense so I what I’ve

[00:17:30] noticed is people have abandoned logic when it comes to this issue they’re not concerned about logic anymore what they’re concerned about is getting what

[00:17:36] they want and I think we have to be really careful when a culture a society

[00:17:41] decides what I want is more important than what’s right or what’s true and

[00:17:48] logic logic has to do with truth yeah so Cuomo himself said this is a victory for

[00:17:55] progressive values but then you have to ask like what are we progressing towards what is the moral standard that being

[00:18:01] able to kill babies up to nine months is progressing us towards and if you don’t have like as Christians we have God and

[00:18:09] we have the Bible to set our moral standards but if you don’t have that and even though he claims to he clearly doesn’t if you don’t have that that what

[00:18:15] are you trying to progress towards like what is this perfect world where you can kill babies of all like what how is that

[00:18:21] getting us somewhere good yeah that moving us forward yeah progressive what you know progressive infers we’re making

[00:18:27] ground we’re making progress but the reality is is that this is not progress this is a step back towards something

[00:18:34] like Nazi Germany where where they were eliminating people that were handicapped

[00:18:39] where they were eliminating people that they considered worth less and what was

[00:18:45] it that the value was based on it was based on what we’re talking about with the sled test right size level of

[00:18:51] development environment and the last one is D for degree of dependency and that’s where the the whole handicap issue

[00:18:57] comes into play which is how much do you depend upon somebody else for your survival during the Nazi times in

[00:19:04] Germany they called people that weren’t contributing to society they call them useless eaters and so a useless eater

[00:19:10] was somebody that they had to get rid rid of because they were not pulling their weight but what kind of a society

[00:19:16] is it do we really want to quote progress towards a Nazi Germany

[00:19:21] philosophy how in the world can anybody think this is good it’s absolutely baffling to me yeah yeah

[00:19:29] so so you know now the Catholic priests are saying hey maybe we should

[00:19:34] excommunicate Andrew Cuomo and personally I I think they absolutely should this is this is no small deal

[00:19:43] baby’s lives hang in the balance well they’ve fallen off the balance now and so now you’re gonna be able to abort

[00:19:50] these babies and people say oh it’s it’s only in the health of the mother well the reality is is that a doctor at any

[00:19:56] point can say I did it for the health of the mother mother she was stressed out she was concerned about her finances or

[00:20:01] whatever it may be and so essentially what we’re saying is we can justify the murder of an infant because of we’re

[00:20:09] financially strapped what kind of society allows murder because you’re financially strapped I mean your

[00:20:16] priorities are completely messed up of course a person’s life takes precedence over your concern about finances yeah

[00:20:24] yeah so that’s another pretty crazy thing but it’s like if you can yeah so

[00:20:32] in the law the word health is not defined and that’s like the thing everybody’s so worried about because like you said emotional health being

[00:20:39] stressed out like anything could be a reason to kill an eight plus month-old baby but yeah it’s like why would that

[00:20:45] change after you’re born like the sled tests like maybe you’re more developed what if you’re a three-year-old child is

[00:20:51] too much for you to handle now like you lose your job whatever happens and you can’t take care of your kids anymore what’s the difference in logic between

[00:20:57] wanting to kill your children because you can’t deal with them anymore versus if it happened to be when they were a little less developed before they were

[00:21:04] born like it’s not really any different yeah and what really drives me crazy is that is that you

[00:21:10] it’s almost as if people are abandoning this idea of you know we used to argue the argument was over whether the child

[00:21:16] in the womb was a child or whether it was something else right people would argue they’d either say it’s not alive

[00:21:22] they’d see it say it’s a part of the woman’s body they’d say it’s not human

[00:21:28] yet it’s a potential human though yeah there were all these ridiculous arguments that people would try to get

[00:21:34] around the idea because they didn’t want to say we’re actually killing a baby but today this is changing what’s happening

[00:21:41] is is people are no longer feeling the necessity to to argue that it’s not a

[00:21:47] child they’re they no longer feel the need to dehumanize it and why not because people are becoming okay with

[00:21:53] actually killing a child simply because they don’t want it Peter Singer who is

[00:22:00] famous for his views on abortion because he has said things like he believes in certain cases it’s okay for a mother to

[00:22:08] abort a child who’s I guess it’s not abortion anymore but up to two years old

[00:22:13] he said you can kill a child up to two years old and his reasoning for this he didn’t say oh it wasn’t a child or it’s

[00:22:19] not a child his reasoning was in certain cases for the mother’s mental health

[00:22:25] this may have to happen and so so uh you

[00:22:30] know you know you may have a temporary satisfaction in that for all the

[00:22:37] politicians out there who are supporting abortion you know you may you really need to consider that you’re essentially

[00:22:43] selling your soul you know I don’t I think andrew Cuomo did this for reelection he didn’t do it because

[00:22:49] morally he thought it was right or somehow he’s convinced himself that women really need to be able to abort

[00:22:55] their children that it’s okay to murder a child for whatever case he did this because because he wants to get

[00:23:03] reelected in the Democrat Party and the Catholic Church is in is in a bind now because of the fact that if they

[00:23:09] excommunicate him for something that’s blatantly sinful and wrong and and against the Catholic Church they’re

[00:23:16] gonna lose a lot of Democrats the Democrats and the Democrats a lot of Democrats that are part of the Catholic Church and so there’s this tension now

[00:23:23] you either lose the Democrats from the Catholic Church or the Democrats use the

[00:23:28] lose the Catholics but somebody’s got to do what’s right they it has to have the conscience and say you know the

[00:23:34] consequences be damned right I’m not gonna swear on the radio here but the consequences be darned and I’m gonna do

[00:23:41] the right thing and so that’s hard but the fact of the matter is is that like Edmund Burke said

[00:23:47] all that’s necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing so

[00:23:52] somebody’s got to make the right decision there we’re gonna be right back we’ll continue to talk about how do I respond to my friends and family members

[00:23:59] as this issue comes up what is the best way to reason with them that no this is

[00:24:04] not a good way to go this is not the road we want to go down we’re gonna be right back

[00:24:13] [Music]

[00:24:27] hi this is Jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this

[00:24:34] opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as

[00:24:40] being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important

[00:24:46] it is to be defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show is our sincere hope and

[00:24:52] prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life teachings thank you

[00:24:59] Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans

[00:25:17] hey welcome back I’m Kevin Conover I’m your host on educate for life radio if you’re enjoying the show you feel like

[00:25:24] it’s helping you out please spread the word give us a thumbs up and you can comment write your comments give your thoughts on this

[00:25:29] issue we’re talking about Andrew Cuomo and the decision he made in New York to legalize abortion up to nine months and

[00:25:36] you know how do I talk to my my friends and my relatives and my neighbors my co-workers about these kinds of issues

[00:25:42] obviously it’s something that’s going to come up because it’s in the news people are talking about it it’s on Facebook

[00:25:47] it’s on social media and so we want to be able to give intelligent answers to try to persuade people that this is a

[00:25:54] bad decision and you know you might think to yourself well what about the

[00:26:00] mother right a lot of people will say hey you know the reason abortion needs to be legal is because of the

[00:26:09] reproductive health whether for the mother now we’re not really discussing

[00:26:14] here we’re not discussing abortion for medical reasons meaning if the mother’s

[00:26:21] life is in danger you know that’s kind of off the table I don’t that that that

[00:26:26] different covers yeah that’s a different conversation and in that case I do believe that under particular

[00:26:32] circumstances there’s a possibility of abortion taking place there and I don’t think anybody’s gonna debate that if a

[00:26:38] mother’s gonna die that’s her choice whether her or her child dies it’s a

[00:26:43] very sad situation it’s a horrible situation but the fact of the matter is is that’s between them but when it comes

[00:26:51] to elective abortion which is the mother’s health is not in danger then all with all of a sudden everything changes because she’s not gonna die if

[00:26:58] the baby’s born and why why is it better for us to allow that baby to be able to

[00:27:04] be killed than it is for us to than it

[00:27:09] is for us to let the baby live and choose a culture that that puts life a

[00:27:15] person’s life as the highest regard right so if you might be on the side of

[00:27:20] Peter Singer Peter Singer heeey this is what he said he said first

[00:27:28] of all he agrees that the pro that the fetus is a living human being he said

[00:27:35] that’s even at six weeks it’s a living human being now this guy is more pro-abortion than probably anybody but

[00:27:40] nobody disagrees with that it’s a human being well how do we know that is a human being well from a biological

[00:27:45] perspective the law of biogenesis says that all creatures reproduce after their their kind so what does that mean it

[00:27:53] means that if you’re wondering what a fetus is all you have to do is ask what its parents are and you know what it is

[00:27:58] so from a science perspective it’s absolutely a human being we can tell from its chromosomes we can we can tell

[00:28:05] from obviously the law of biogenesis it’s a human being even at six weeks he

[00:28:12] said but he said and this is what he said he said we would we shouldn’t run

[00:28:17] away from what abortion is and so what is he saying he’s saying abortion is the killing of a human being now how does he

[00:28:23] justify this well he says a viable fetus human being in the fetus stage of

[00:28:31] development is not a rational self-aware person with desires and plans which

[00:28:37] would be cut short by death hence it should not have the same right as humans

[00:28:42] who have such qualities abortion is also justified singer added both as a female

[00:28:49] right and as a method for curbing overpopulation

[00:28:55] so so this seems to me to be where the argument is going people are no longer

[00:29:01] arguing that the fetus is not a baby is not a human what they’re arguing is it’s

[00:29:07] not rational self-aware and and the

[00:29:13] mothers right to have the life she wants takes precedence over the baby’s right

[00:29:19] to live and then he gives a final caveat which is that the government I would

[00:29:26] assume the government can use it as a method for a cutting down population we

[00:29:32] should be able to kill babies take lives away when there’s too many people so

[00:29:39] what do you think Robert yeah so I mean justification well I’m not last point

[00:29:44] well first of all all of that is terrible yeah but more specifically on that last point the government using

[00:29:50] abortion to cut down population is what they’re doing in China and have been doing for a long time and it’s

[00:29:55] completely barbaric like it’s a horrible thing like parents can’t have more than one kid if they want to or maybe they

[00:30:01] end up the policy but for I know for a very long time yes certainly parts of China that were heavily populated yeah

[00:30:06] but that’s like why would that be a standard we want to reach that’s not that’s a horrible standard we want to be as far away from his pause not

[00:30:12] progressive its aggressive yeah and another thing like with women’s rights and human rights like in China tons of

[00:30:19] young women are being aborted people don’t want their girl babies so they kill them and like you’re decreasing the

[00:30:26] amount of women in the world in the name of women’s rights because you’re letting them kill all these little girl babies like yeah China the emphasis is on

[00:30:33] keeping male babies not you don’t want female babies which brings us back to the utilitarian perspective which is

[00:30:39] which is worth more is it worth more to have a boy is it worth more to have a girl and so you’re back to basing your

[00:30:46] value off extrinsic worth rather than the inherent value of all individuals and so you know you’re you’re just

[00:30:52] you’re gonna wreck people’s lives this isn’t gonna stop with just the babies if this becomes the philosophy of the

[00:30:58] United States you’re gonna wreck women’s rights you’re gonna wreck the rights of handicapped

[00:31:03] you’re gonna wreck the rights of different races I’m if you want to just open the Pandora’s

[00:31:09] box to every type of sexism racism ISM that there is well this is it you know

[00:31:16] the Bible says you sow to the wind you reap the whirlwind and God wants not

[00:31:22] nothing to do with this and the fact of the matter is is that this is this is infanticide on a scale larger than any

[00:31:29] time in world history and so we can’t you can’t you can’t claim the moral high

[00:31:36] ground when one of your moral standards

[00:31:41] is it’s okay to kill a baby I mean the baby is the most innocent individual there is they’ve done nothing wrong and

[00:31:48] so how in the world every moral position and value you have is discredited by the

[00:31:55] fact that you’ve decided that a child at nine months can be killed for no other

[00:32:01] reason than it’s an inconvenience to the mother that is about as morally low as

[00:32:07] you can possibly get yeah and to again to view how inconsistent these beliefs

[00:32:13] are like Lomo is against the death penalty unequivocally so if you’re a

[00:32:20] multiple murderer if you’re a murderer and a rapist like whatever you have done nothing justifies taking your life and

[00:32:26] unless you’re a baby somebody doesn’t want like why is that the one exception

[00:32:32] if you’re gonna make one exception for killing people why would that be it an innocent unborn person who hasn’t done

[00:32:37] anything wrong does deserve death but nobody else deserves death no matter what that’s a completely inconsistent

[00:32:43] view it makes no sense yeah yeah and and primarily what’s happening here is that

[00:32:49] our society is shifting towards a view that says basically the the individual

[00:32:57] is the highest value right so basically we’re shifting toward this moral system

[00:33:03] that says my personal viewpoint is the highest moral standard meaning if I’m a

[00:33:10] mother and this child is gonna mess up my life because I am the highest moral standard my self-interest is the highest

[00:33:16] moral standard then I can kill the child now think about that you applied that to any other situation we’d scream foul all over the over the

[00:33:24] place right so you have an employer and he says my standard is my own self-worth

[00:33:31] and my own self-interest that is the highest moral standard there’s an employer right well what do people hate they hate these CEOs that get paid

[00:33:38] hundreds of millions of dollars and let their employees get paid you know a minimum wage that’s people scream about

[00:33:45] that well what is the moral system that’s based on it’s based on the idea that as it from a selfish perspective

[00:33:52] whatever I want is the highest moral standard and you can’t have that both

[00:33:58] ways you can’t say well for a mom in this situation that’s a good moral standard but for a employer in this

[00:34:05] situation that’s a bad moral standard because people can see the hypocrisy and so what begins to happen is people look

[00:34:14] for any way they can get away with what they want right get as much money get as

[00:34:20] much stuff and as long as I can get away with it and as long as I can you know do

[00:34:26] it my way that’s the moral standard and the problem is is that as this permeate

[00:34:32] society as this viewpoint permeate society that an individual’s moral

[00:34:39] values are the highest moral values regardless of who they are they make up their own moral values right this all

[00:34:45] comes back to the whole discussion about moral relativism post-modernism the

[00:34:51] essentially the pushing away of a god moral standard leads us down this path

[00:35:00] of moral chaos and abortion is a big is

[00:35:05] is kind of a leading indicator of where we’re going because when you say no you can’t kill

[00:35:12] your child you’re exempt you’re actually saying there’s a moral standard higher

[00:35:17] than just your personal preference and we all want to adhere to that because

[00:35:23] why because all people are created equal because we have god-given rights that

[00:35:30] are as a standard that no person can just do away with so yeah and so like

[00:35:38] laws exist in our societies and like police exist and the government exists to protect the innocent and protect the

[00:35:45] defenseless we don’t live in some like crazy Mad Max future world where everybody’s

[00:35:51] just running around killing each other we don’t want to live there because there are innocent defenseless people

[00:35:56] who aren’t strong enough to protect themselves but we still think they deserve to live and have a life like I

[00:36:02] don’t know and there’s there’s nobody more defenseless than an unborn child they have literally no defenses but if

[00:36:09] you just let them keep living they’ll develop into the same type of adult that all of us are today there’s no essential

[00:36:15] difference they’re just at a very vulnerable time in their life and our laws should be protecting the innocent

[00:36:21] and the defense lists not enabling us to kill them like that’s the absolute

[00:36:26] opposite of progress from any like law standpoint yes and from a civil from a civility perspective right

[00:36:33] civility versus barbarianism yeah and and the rule of law and so forth okay we

[00:36:38] have one one segment left I hope you’re getting something on the show I hope it’s being a blessing to you and we’ll

[00:36:44] talk a little bit more about this whole issue as it pertains to moral relativism and as it pertains to you know how do we

[00:36:52] know this little child deserves to live we’ll be right back

[00:36:58] [Music]

[00:37:12] hi I’m Marisa Conover and I would love to help you buy or sell your home I’ve

[00:37:19] worked as a realtor for more than 13 years and as a San Diego native my passion and experience will help make

[00:37:26] your move as peaceful as can be call me at six one nine two five one one

[00:37:32] five seven seven that’s six one nine two five one 1577 or visit Conover homes

[00:37:39] calm [Music]

[00:38:03] hey thanks for being here you’re on educate for life radio Kevin Conover and you know this past week is a

[00:38:09] pretty sad week new york legalized abortion up to nine months Andrew Cuomo

[00:38:15] and here we have a situation where our culture and society has said you know in

[00:38:24] New York at least not all New Yorkers but a large amount of them who are on the side of Cuomo and pro-choice and say

[00:38:32] they’re for women’s reproductive health you know are saying hey the solution to

[00:38:38] the issue of an unwanted pregnancy is to kill the baby and nobody disagrees that

[00:38:45] it’s a baby the people that do are are you know really just abandoning logic

[00:38:53] and science and so my challenge to you is if you are a part of the Democrat

[00:38:58] Party and you consider yourself a believer in God and Jesus Christ how can

[00:39:04] you possibly continue to support that platform and you might say well they have other values that I agree with and

[00:39:11] they have other values that I agree with and you know I just got to take the good with the bad but this should be one of

[00:39:18] the highest most important things when it comes to how we determine who we vote

[00:39:23] for and what party were supporting is their attitude towards the unborn towards an innocent child towards a

[00:39:31] child who’s literally being murdered you know and and some people have said well

[00:39:36] the death penalty you know Republicans are for the death penalty how’s that for life well the fact of the matter is is that the death penalty is the death of a

[00:39:44] criminal but we’re talking about a child who’s done no wrong who’s only a quote

[00:39:50] crime is being conceived which he had no part in right or she had no part in and

[00:39:57] so why in the world would we continue to support this so you know we’ve been

[00:40:05] talking about this and if you’re talking to your neighbors your friends we emphasize sled which is an acronym

[00:40:10] that’s used in order to help make the point really quick that abortions not a good thing sighs level of development environment

[00:40:18] and degree of dependency so S stands for size that is your size doesn’t determine your value if you’re a little baby in

[00:40:25] the womb a small baby your value is no different than if you’re a full-grown adult from from the perspective of God

[00:40:32] and even if you don’t believe in God just from a common sense perspective all people are worth the same inherently

[00:40:41] intrinsically then level of development it doesn’t matter whether you’re a young

[00:40:47] girl who’s under six years old who hasn’t hit puberty yet or whether you’re somebody who’s 25 or whatever your

[00:40:54] degree whatever your level of development it doesn’t change your value and then environment where you are

[00:41:02] doesn’t matter whether you’re in the womb or outside of the womb whether you’re on one side of the street or the other side of the street from a god

[00:41:09] perspective your value doesn’t change doesn’t matter where you live in the world God values all people the same but

[00:41:14] if you believe in abortion then you cannot hold that position and if you can’t hold that position for a baby in

[00:41:20] the womb then you can’t hold that position for anybody and what that means is you’re wet worth less than somebody

[00:41:25] else and there’s no wonder that our depression rates or anxiety rates our suicide rates are skyrocketing it’s

[00:41:33] because what we’re doing is we’re devaluing people we’re telling them they’re not worth anything except by

[00:41:40] what they can do you know I’ve I’ve had multiple kids come to me as a teacher and tell me that they were considering

[00:41:46] suicide and what I’ve noticed among most of them is that it’s a performance issue

[00:41:51] meaning that they do not feel valuable because somebody has told them they’re not valuable because they’re not good

[00:41:57] enough and and I’ve had very high-level students tell me this I’ve had students that were straight-a students tell me

[00:42:04] they want to commit suicide why because they weren’t good enough because there was a standard that was placed on them

[00:42:09] that they couldn’t meet and then I’ve had students that are low performers feel the same way because if that

[00:42:15] standards moving all over the place and what happens is it doesn’t matter who you are there’s always a standard you

[00:42:21] can’t meet but God does not base our value off of that kind of a standard the Bible is very clear nobody will be saved

[00:42:28] by work nobody will be justified by the works of the law we are all on a level playing

[00:42:34] field the only answer is Jesus Christ he’s the only one that can meet that standard that can satisfy the standard

[00:42:42] that God has set for righteousness and for getting into heaven Jesus Christ said I will exchange my record for yours

[00:42:51] maybe today you’re listening to the program and and you haven’t made Christ your Lord and Savior and you feel like

[00:42:57] I’m not good enough well that’s the whole point you’re not good enough I’m not good enough none of us are good enough you know it’s really interesting

[00:43:03] when ro got saved and Roe vs. Wade she actually became a Christian and she

[00:43:08] was being witnessed too by a guy named Flip Benham and she she had turned him

[00:43:15] and she this is a quote from her it said this

[00:43:21] before I had thought of flip as a man who did who did nothing but yell at

[00:43:26] abortion clinics and read his Bible in fact I even pictured him sleeping with his hands across his chest

[00:43:31] Dracula like with a big Bible tucked under his arms the thought that he was a real person a guy who had once even gone

[00:43:38] to a Beach Boys concert never occurred to me now that it had I saw him in a new light I continued the teasing

[00:43:45] now she was running into flip outside of abortion clinics because she was pro-abortion at the time and he was

[00:43:51] anti-abortion and so they would clash but every once in a while they have you know everybody takes a break and they

[00:43:57] end up having conversations so she was getting to know him even though she was still opposed to to you know the

[00:44:05] pro-life movement she said I continued the teasing come on flip I didn’t know you were even a sinner he says this miss

[00:44:12] Norma flips said I’m a great big sinner saved by a great big God of all the

[00:44:17] things I expected flip to say this wasn’t one of them I didn’t like to think of flip as human but this unreal

[00:44:26] flip was telling me that he was a sinner that he had even gone to a Beach Boys concert I couldn’t connect that with the

[00:44:32] fanatics I had made the rescuers out to be and it took a while for me to look past the confrontational tactics for for

[00:44:39] which flip was known as we chatted outside on the bench between our offices however flip began sharing some stories

[00:44:44] of his past and out of this vulnerability an unlikely friendship was born you know and that’s the truth the

[00:44:52] truth of the matter is is we’re all sinners we all need Jesus Christ and the

[00:44:58] reality is is that it doesn’t matter whether you’re pro-life or prone as far as God’s love

[00:45:05] for a person is concerned but the reality is is that abortion is not the solution to the problem

[00:45:11] abortion only makes things worse it doesn’t make things better it makes things worse for the women who

[00:45:18] are often traumatized PS PTSD will experience incredible amounts of

[00:45:24] depression and anxiety after they’ve taken had an abortion it’s bad for the

[00:45:30] culture as a whole which is devaluing life it’s increasing depression it’s saying that you’re only worth what you

[00:45:36] contribute to society so from every angle abortion is painful and hurtful it may

[00:45:44] provide a temporary relief for a woman who got pregnant unwillingly or got

[00:45:51] pregnant unintentionally it may provide a temporary relief but long-term it’s

[00:45:58] not going to be a good solution for anybody so you know we really need to do

[00:46:04] everything we can as Christians to be able to convey God’s love to people God

[00:46:10] cares about the woman who’s had the abortion he wants to forgive her he wants to take her back into his arms and

[00:46:17] relieve that shame and that guilt and he died on the cross for all of our sins so

[00:46:23] we’re not here to condemn people who have had an abortion we’re not here to condemn anybody Jesus Christ said I did

[00:46:29] not come into the world to condemn the world but to save the world and so that being the case God is simply reaching

[00:46:37] out saying don’t go that way that way is gonna hurt you that way is gonna ruin your life that way is gonna wreck you

[00:46:43] come to me all you who are weary and heavy-laden and I will give you rest and

[00:46:48] so you know a lot of times when I talk to people who are pro abortion they’ll say something like hey look we’re both

[00:46:56] opposed to abortion but it’s it’s a solution to a bad situation but there is

[00:47:03] a far better solution through adoption or through encouraging abstinence or

[00:47:09] encouraging better education by the way that’s a big

[00:47:15] issue in San Diego right now the San Diego City Schools are advocating a sex

[00:47:21] education that actually prove that encourages promiscuity which is going to

[00:47:26] lead to more abortions and so you know when I when I look at the issue of abortion most of the time if you follow

[00:47:32] the money trail you find out that’s what’s really going on here as most people the people that are supporting this one way or another are getting

[00:47:39] money either they’re keeping a job by getting reelected or they’re already making a whole lot of money through the

[00:47:45] abortion clinics abortion is a multi-billion dollar industry so a plan

[00:47:51] made Parenthood makes a ton of money off this and so we have to continue to

[00:47:56] support the people that are fighting this and also get involved ourselves so

[00:48:02] thanks for being here today I really appreciate you being on the program with us I hope you enjoyed it hope was a

[00:48:07] blessing to you we have a whole class on this if you want to check it out online you can go to educate for life org and

[00:48:13] we have a class as all these classes on defending a biblical worldview helping

[00:48:18] you to be able to communicate more effectively the truth of the Bible being able to defend the Bible and being able

[00:48:24] to advocate for those values in the public square and ultimately being able to share the gospel of Jesus Christ

[00:48:30] share your faith and lead others to know that Jesus Christ loves them died on the

[00:48:35] cross for them and wants to spend eternity in heaven with them so I hope you enjoyed the show today thanks a lot

[00:48:40] for being here we’ll be back next week I’ve got a bunch of great interviews lined up so I hope you’ll join us next

[00:48:46] time have a great day [Music]