What Are the Nephilim? – Tim Chaffey

[00:00:00] then call 802 four three nine seven nineteen and now here’s your host Kevin

[00:00:06] Conover bring your time educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website

[00:00:13] is educate for life dot o-r-g org and we are we have another great show today

[00:00:19] that we’re recording you can watch us on Facebook or YouTube or periscope

[00:00:24] wherever you like it’s also podcast and my guest today is Tim Chaffee Tim am i

[00:00:31] pronouncing that correctly Chaffey okay Tim Chaffee and he’s the founder of Midwest apologetics he works

[00:00:38] as the content manager with the attractions division of Answers in Genesis he’s written or co-authored

[00:00:43] several books including in defense of Easter God and cancer the truth Chronicle series and the book we’re

[00:00:49] going to be talking about today which is the sons of God and the Nephilim now the Nephilim anytime this word comes up all

[00:00:55] kinds of people’s ears perk up and everybody’s like what are the Nephilim they’re these mysterious creatures

[00:01:01] mentioned in the book of Genesis if you go back to Genesis chapter 6 verses 1

[00:01:09] through 4 you can check it out and everybody wants to know what what in the world is going on here I’ll read the

[00:01:16] scriptures here just so you can get the content here it says here when human beings began to increase in number on

[00:01:23] the earth and daughters were born to them the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful and

[00:01:28] they married any of them they chose then the Lord said my spirit will not contend

[00:01:33] with humans forever for they are mortal their days will be a hundred and twenty years and verse 4 here it says the

[00:01:40] Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had

[00:01:46] children by them they were the heroes of old men of renown and this is really interesting because all throughout

[00:01:54] history since this was written people have argued back and forth about what in

[00:01:59] the world are the Nephilim and Tim just recently came out with a book just a few

[00:02:04] weeks ago it’s called fallen the sons of God and the Nephilim the most thorough

[00:02:10] study on the topic available and so Tim give us your background how do you get interested in the Nephilim and why is

[00:02:17] this the most thorough book on the subject well one of the reason I became

[00:02:23] interested in this is a little bit humorous and because I am about six feet nine inches tall oh my gosh you are a

[00:02:30] Nephilim is that imagine you can imagine the number of times I’ve been called that yeah and I’ve been called giant all

[00:02:37] my life well ever since I was about eight and I would call Wow six point nine when did you when did you

[00:02:43] hit your hit six nine when I was about 15 I won’t my goodness like five eight

[00:02:49] two six eight from 7:30 to ninth grade and so I started pretty quickly and

[00:02:55] people have used you know they call me giant I’ve been called methylene plenty

[00:03:00] of times in my life by people who know their Bibles and I thought you know what I need to dig into this a little bit

[00:03:06] I’ve always been fascinated by the pre-flood world by Genesis 1 through 11 you mentioned earlier that I’m the

[00:03:12] Content Manager with the Ark Encounter and the Creation Museum for Answers in Genesis and I do want to clarify that

[00:03:19] the ministry incident Genesis doesn’t take an official position on this topic so anything that I’m going to be saying

[00:03:25] today is not personality to you there’s the official position of Answers in Genesis we have a non position position

[00:03:31] but so the book is our represents my own views but I wanted to present them all

[00:03:39] we’ve been talking about this topic or this that whole section of Scripture I really wanted to get to the bottom of

[00:03:45] this issue because so many people kind of glossed over there there’s so many

[00:03:50] popular level writings that I noticed there there are a lot of mistakes or a lot of assumptions being made a lot of

[00:03:56] sensationalism and I thought let me find a really good serious study on the topic

[00:04:01] and I really couldn’t find any and when it became time to do my thesis for my

[00:04:06] THM back in 2010 I thought maybe I can do this topic and so I proposed that and

[00:04:13] my readers said that that would be a good idea in my mentor for the THM and

[00:04:19] that’s what I did and for the last eight years I’ve been working on revising and updating and expanding and a 140 page

[00:04:28] paper became a nearly 500 page book Wow

[00:04:33] awesome and and when you say a serious study on the subject are you talking

[00:04:38] about what do you what do you mean by a serious study versus you know something

[00:04:44] that’s not serious yeah I guess that’s a good clarification I don’t want to make

[00:04:49] it sound like I’m being um you know negative toward people other people were written on the topic but when you look

[00:04:55] on online there’s a lot of hype a lot of sensationalism there are a lot of really

[00:05:00] poor arguments being used when people are discussing this topic you know they’ll get into all sorts of end times

[00:05:07] conspiracy there’s a lot there’s no shortage of books that you can find that mention the word Nephilim in the title

[00:05:13] and and they always have some sort of government cover-up angle or some sort of conspiracy thing and it’s a

[00:05:22] sensational end times perspective or something I thought you know let’s the Bible doesn’t have a lot

[00:05:27] of that let’s just focus on what this passage means yeah and so that’s that’s

[00:05:32] what I set out to do is try to figure out what are these four releases and any other relevant passages in Scripture

[00:05:37] that relate to them one of the thing absolutely so when you before we get

[00:05:43] into you know the view that you’ve come up with and everything so you’ve written a very thorough book on the subject are

[00:05:52] you are you looking Acts Trabuco also or is this just an exegetical a focus on

[00:05:58] the exegetical explanation so are you looking strictly at Scripture are you looking at historical evidence what are

[00:06:04] you looking at yeah it’s more of a I guess I could say it’s your listeners

[00:06:10] are familiar with more of a systematic approach okay so I’m going to start I’m going to start with Scripture look at everything that it has to say on topic

[00:06:16] look at the church’s historical perspective on this and also ancient Judaism look at their perspective on

[00:06:23] this because they have been interpreting the Old Testament longer than Christians have yeah and what did they say what had

[00:06:29] the church said throughout throughout the centuries and is there historical evidence for some of these things as

[00:06:36] there are the science come into play at all in this so I’ll start with the

[00:06:41] scripture that’s the that’s my ultimate authority on this and then the other can be brought in as a supplementary

[00:06:50] evidence if you will okay that makes sense and then did you uh did you what

[00:06:57] are the most outrageous theories on the Nephilim that you’re kind of like you know that that’s absolutely silly you

[00:07:04] know and kind of push that to the side are there any that pop out in your mind is yeah there’s some outrageous ones

[00:07:11] you’ll see these on like the History Channel with that ancient aliens program

[00:07:16] that they run I think it’s like in season thirteen or fourteen now and some for some reason that’s extremely popular

[00:07:21] and it it’s a very poorly researched but there’s a lot of sensationalism and a

[00:07:27] lot of people on those show they’ll say well Nephilim means like lumps that fell from the sky and it’s talking about

[00:07:34] aliens who came down in the past and visited earth and these are the ones who helped build the pyramids or all of

[00:07:39] those things and but the problem is that the word Nephilim it doesn’t mean fallen

[00:07:45] ones but one of the big mistakes that a lot of Christians make when they’re discussing this topic and it’s going to go you’ll find over and over and over

[00:07:52] again online but nothing means fallen ones it doesn’t and I’ll say that it’s

[00:07:57] coming from the Hebrew verb nephal which which doesn’t mean to fall but it actually doesn’t come from that that it

[00:08:03] gives you two different words or giving either the word Nephilim which is not the same as Nephilim or nestling if you

[00:08:11] were entering to get a participle it actually comes from the Aramaic word an air McNown Nuffield which means giant

[00:08:18] and when you make that plural and Aramaic it is methylene and if you were to bring that in the Hebrew it has an M

[00:08:24] ending in sort of an N ending and so it becomes nestling it really just means giant oh wow okay huh that’s awesome and

[00:08:32] so so as you’re writing this book and you’re going you’re weeding through all

[00:08:37] these different things and looking them out do you feel like as you were going through it you learned a lot of new

[00:08:44] information or is it kind of stuff that you were like you know this is really what I thought the answer was or were

[00:08:51] you kind of thrown off by oh wow I this is something new that I didn’t realize

[00:08:57] no I would say I learned quite a bit in fact the point is raised about the meaning of the word

[00:09:02] Nephilim when I set out on my my research for my THM I thought it meant fallen ones because that’s where I had

[00:09:08] read on so many different online articles and when I started looking in commentaries and academic commentaries I

[00:09:14] couldn’t find anybody who said that and when I looked at the lexicon I couldn’t find a lexicon that said that

[00:09:20] they all said it means at least the primary definition with Giants and they would give the background for someone

[00:09:26] would say it you know dubious we’re not 100% certain but most of the other ones would just say Giants and I finally

[00:09:32] found one commentary that tried to make the connection to fallen ones in a footnote but it said that that’s unlikely and I thought you know it wise

[00:09:41] re saying this and it’s all based on a misunderstanding and it’s one of those things that I think at the popular level

[00:09:47] it becomes you know people run with it they’ve heard it over and over again and they just assume that it’s true

[00:09:52] yeah they don’t take the time I study it or look into it they just say hey this is what I’ve heard over and over again

[00:09:57] so it must be what the right that’s right yeah and there were a lot of eye-opening moments for me as I was

[00:10:03] going through money my overall view didn’t change I mean I had the same

[00:10:08] overall perspective on the passage but there were a lot of things that along the way up up well that makes a lot more

[00:10:15] sense now or I never realized that part of it I didn’t know how it connected to this part of scripture and really was

[00:10:21] eye-opening in fact I would say this might sound like an overstatement but I would say the whole Old Testament really

[00:10:27] comes alive when you start to understand this topic in detail wow that’s really

[00:10:32] interesting I would never have guessed that I mean a lot of people I know you know this question comes up all the time

[00:10:39] i I’m an apologist myself and I I speak at different youth camps and different

[00:10:44] places and very frequently this question will come up one way or another somebody will ask me about the Nephilim and

[00:10:52] you’re saying that this this very issue actually illuminates a lot of other issues that pertain to the Old Testament

[00:10:58] so forth it does it really does help us understand what’s going on a lot of

[00:11:04] other passages you mentioned other you’re an apologist and so you’ve probably heard people criticize the

[00:11:10] Bible or criticize God’s characters and why would he wipe out all of the Canaan why would he tell job well that’s a huge

[00:11:15] girl I think that’s a huge yeah thank you Joe why would he why would they kill all the men women and children yeah Tim

[00:11:21] I want to put I want to take a little break right here this is a great place to kind of tease our listeners here to

[00:11:28] stay with us into the next segment because that’s very interesting my guest today is Tim Chaffee and he is the

[00:11:34] author of fallen the sons of God and the Nephilim he has spent more than a decade doing research on this particular topic

[00:11:41] so stay with us we’re gonna get some answers from him my websites educate for life.org and I encourage you to pick up a copy of

[00:11:48] the book it just came out a couple weeks ago if you’re interested in this subject you want to learn more about it okay

[00:11:53] we’re gonna be right back [Music]

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[00:12:32] thanks for being with us today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover we air live on FM 106.1 in North

[00:12:41] County I’m sorry we’re pretty recording for Sunday and we also are on a.m. 12:10

[00:12:47] San Diego that’s locally here in San Diego Tim is actually back in Kentucky and but you can also watch us on the on

[00:12:55] YouTube our YouTube channel you can check us out on periscope or Facebook my facebook page to educate for life her

[00:13:01] Facebook page and we podcast so we have all kinds of fantastic shows just last

[00:13:06] week I had on a guy who was in the New Age movement who actually was getting involved in things like astral

[00:13:14] projection and all kinds of weird crazy stuff as young as four years old he was from Hawaii actually spoke to spirits

[00:13:21] Hawaiian spirits ultimately ended up becoming a Christian and now he reaches out to those who are involved in things

[00:13:27] like the New Age movement and the occult he’s a pastor up in Washington planning a church calvary chapel pastor so all

[00:13:34] kinds of amazing interviews testimonies from people all over the world who are talking about how the bible and the

[00:13:41] relationship with jesus christ has radically impacted their life and tim you know for a lot of people when they

[00:13:47] hear the word Nephilim come up immediately they think to themselves unsolvable riddle not worth spending

[00:13:54] your time on doesn’t really have an impact on my relationship with God or my

[00:13:59] view of the Bible so you know fun to talk about but not really worth spending a lot of your time studying how would

[00:14:06] you respond to somebody who said something like that yeah I think I’ve heard that quite a bit you know why

[00:14:12] would you spend so much time working on this project you know it’s just a side issue or it’s just a strange passage in

[00:14:18] Genesis well my first response is if they believe that all of Scripture is inspired by God then I would say the

[00:14:26] Holy Spirit must have had a reason for including this so it should be something that we just gloss over and deem

[00:14:32] unimportant it may not be you know certain passages are going to be more relevant to us today than other passes

[00:14:39] it doesn’t mean that they’re more authoritative or more important in the long run it might just be more relevant

[00:14:46] to our own situation-room life so I understand why people are saying that we want we focus

[00:14:51] on the gospel we focus on discipleship but we also are supposed to study God’s

[00:14:56] Word and to know it and to do our best to understand it and so I think it must ache to gloss over anything yeah

[00:15:03] absolutely and and then just like you were saying in I was reading on your page by the way if you want to check out

[00:15:11] more information about Tim’s book or Tim as an apologist he speaks best site Tim

[00:15:19] Midwest apologetics org is that correct I yeah actually that’s my old site the

[00:15:26] newest one is theirs did risen risen ministries such as risen min calm and

[00:15:32] warm yep and if they want to find out more about the book itself they can go to left Alden book.com

[00:15:38] okay Nephilim book calm and so you were

[00:15:44] you wrote on your site I was looking at it and you mentioned that it solves two big issues that people struggle with

[00:15:51] regarding God and you you mentioned the last segment you said something about how people get upset when they hear that

[00:15:58] God wiped out all the Canaanites or wiped out all the Amalekites I mean the the new atheist that’s one of their most

[00:16:04] passionate attacks against the Bible is that God is immoral he wiped out all these people including women and

[00:16:10] children and so how does this issue speak to that you know well first and

[00:16:17] foremost I would I always point out when it’s coming from an atheist but they don’t really even have the moral ground

[00:16:23] to stand on to say that it’s immoral for God to do that they have to assume morality is true that’s right yeah even

[00:16:29] more morality may have no basis for that but yeah as we’re talking about right before the break when you look carefully

[00:16:35] at what’s going on in Joshua particularly chapters 10 and 11 there are certain times where God said kill

[00:16:41] everyone last one of them all that all the people so men women and children and also the beasts that are there and when

[00:16:49] you compare that to the other passages when God doesn’t say that and you look at the locations where he’s telling you

[00:16:55] to do that the only time you tell them to kill them all is in places where there were to the Giant

[00:17:00] Vanessa lien or the bylaws of the transit as Anakin in the land so God is

[00:17:08] doing something different than what most people assume they think he’s just carrying out vengeance but he told

[00:17:15] Abraham back in Genesis 15 that he was going to Abraham to summon to go would

[00:17:20] have that land that he was giving to them and their possession but they were going to have to go to a land that was

[00:17:25] not their own for 400 years and serve them and of course that’s talked about Egypt yeah but then they would return to that

[00:17:32] land they would go back to where Abraham was and that would that he were going to give it to him while Abraham happened to

[00:17:38] be in heparin at that point and then Isaac lived in Haran and Jacob lived in Hebron and Joseph when he was young

[00:17:44] lived there and when we know the enemy could have heard that command or at

[00:17:50] least nomads and so when the Israelites come back to take possession of land where the Anakim these giants that we’re

[00:17:58] told number 1333 the Anakim are called the Nephilim where the Anakim headquartered their sons of anak there

[00:18:06] in Hebron no interested as if the yes is at the enemy knew that God said hey your

[00:18:13] descendants are going to come back to this land and Satan saying nothing that I’m going to prevent them and of course we know he can’t stop God from

[00:18:20] accomplishing when he came to do yeah but it’s searching like he’s trying to yeah it does that’s all yeah we know

[00:18:27] from Deuteronomy that God told Moses whoa hey when the Israelites enter the land on these nations or cities that are

[00:18:33] far away from you you can make an offer at peace and if they you know if they surrender they can be your servants but

[00:18:39] in other place he says kill every last one of them and they’re put under in Hebrews book hmmm it’s they’re devoted

[00:18:45] to destruction and that’s that’s what happened at any place where they had a

[00:18:50] giant so okay so when you were looking at this what where do you fall on this

[00:18:58] as far as okay what so what are these Nephilim exactly there you said the word means Giants and it says here in verse 4

[00:19:07] the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and

[00:19:13] had chill by them they were the heroes of old men of renown

[00:19:18] so our how are these giants being produced I mean from a from a

[00:19:27] creationist perspective my understanding and correct me if I’m wrong but you know

[00:19:33] our genetics over time has gotten progressively worse I read dr. John Sanford’s book on the human genome and

[00:19:40] the genetic decay and where Adam and Eve were we would say really really healthy

[00:19:47] and then what’s happening here along the way that’s producing these Nephilim and these creatures that God is not you know

[00:19:54] he’s not allowing to live yeah well I think you just read it in verse 4

[00:19:59] although that many English Bibles will have one word that’s

[00:20:05] mistranslated and leads to a lot of confusion ok so it exits as the Nephilim we’re on the earth in those days and

[00:20:11] also activated so before the flood and also after the flood whenever the sons of God rather than the

[00:20:18] word when and that’s the Hebrew word I share you can look at the different Hebrew grammars and I’ll tell you that

[00:20:24] in this concept this word should be translated whenever if it is something that happened in the past and at fixed

[00:20:31] or irregular intervals since then so if you think if you read it that way it

[00:20:36] clarifies everything the the Nephilim went to the Giants run the earth in those days besides blood and also after

[00:20:42] the flood whenever the sons of God went into the daughters of men and they bore children to them in other words the Nephilim are

[00:20:47] the children of the sons of God and the daughters of men so the real question is who are the sons of God and there are

[00:20:55] three main views throughout church history on that the earliest view and the olicity would be ancient Jews from

[00:21:02] all the writings that we have intertestamental period the first two centuries of the church they all view

[00:21:08] that the sons of God adds angelic beings who rebelled against God and you can see

[00:21:13] that same term in Hebrew the B’nai high Elohim using job three different times where they’ve clearly referring to

[00:21:20] angelic beings and one other questions prepared well but the two other views

[00:21:25] one of them says the sons of God are descendants of both the men in the line

[00:21:31] of set going all the way down to Noah and their sin was that they were marrying ungodly women from the line of

[00:21:37] Cain throat so you know the line of Genesis for became the line of Genesis 5 but with Seth and there are plenty of

[00:21:44] textual problems with that I have a whole chapter in the book just on looking at at that to you and the

[00:21:50] arguments for it and then how well it measures up the other view which has

[00:21:55] been less common up until about the last 4050 years it starting to become more popular among scholars and known as the

[00:22:01] royalty viewer the divine tyrant viewer the sons of God were like rulers or

[00:22:07] judges or Kings who they saw pretty women in their land and they just took

[00:22:12] him and brought him into their harems and their sin was polygamy and that’s one of the reason that God sent the

[00:22:18] flood is because of this the sin of polygamy neither one of those explain why the offspring would be Giants and

[00:22:25] the royalty view depends on the phrase took wise and it sound bad in English

[00:22:32] doesn’t it if it said so in sort of ice yeah actually that’s the typical Hebrew idiom

[00:22:38] in Genesis for marriage Abraham took cateura and life Isaac took Rebekah as wife and we loved it he didn’t force her

[00:22:44] and she came willingly with with Abraham’s servant and I could never met her yeah so a question comes up about

[00:22:52] this and that is that so how in the world do spiritual beings have a

[00:22:59] physical relationship a sexual relationship with you know humans and so

[00:23:04] do you have a theory on that I don’t want to get into it yet because we’re coming up on a break but do you have a

[00:23:09] theory on that well it’s tricky but because we were we

[00:23:16] tend to think that they are just ethereal beings you know floating out there that they don’t have a physical

[00:23:22] form or anything but when we look at what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah we know that the people saw them certainly

[00:23:27] about the angels that were there between your physical form that they could do something yeah okay well we’re coming up

[00:23:33] on a break here Mike my guest today is Tim Chaffee and risen mint.com is his

[00:23:38] website risen min com if you want to check out his book on the Nephilim that’s Nephilim book com

[00:23:44] please check those out a fantastic book we’re talking about the Nephilim today we’ve got two more segments left so stay

[00:23:50] with us you’re going to continue to explore this subject something that a lot of people are very curious about so we’ll be right back

[00:23:56] [Music]

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[00:24:41] thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my websites educate for life.org

[00:24:46] and I’ve got over 40 classes online that you can check out if you’re interested

[00:24:51] in signing up for the classes it’s a full curriculum that you can go through basically a systematic approach to

[00:24:57] apologetics where we cover all the different questions that people have about God in the Bible and it’ll walk you through all those different stages

[00:25:03] we talk about creation and evolution world religions we talk about how do we know the Bible is actually God’s Word

[00:25:08] and then we deal with social issues – what about the issue of abortion or homosexuality these issues that are come

[00:25:14] up frequently in our culture today which has become increasingly skeptical as

[00:25:20] Christians we want to be prepared to give a reason for the hope that lies within us we want to be able to demolish arguments that set themselves up against

[00:25:27] the knowledge of God that’s what God has called us to do to be able to love people to Christ by being truthful with

[00:25:33] them being able to rightly divide the word of God right being able to share it with others and at the same time be

[00:25:39] doing it because we love people because we care about them because we’re concerned about their eternity and today

[00:25:46] a very important topic is the issue of the Nephilim which which comes up

[00:25:52] frequently but a lot of times the answers that are provided aren’t very solid answers and they’re not biblically based answered answers but my guest

[00:25:59] today Tim Chaffee risen mint.com Nephilim book.com he has written a very

[00:26:06] very thorough book on the subject fallen the sons of God and the Nephilim and Tim

[00:26:12] when we were leaving off there we were we were talking about you know so so the

[00:26:18] theory that you come down on is that these the sons of God who are having

[00:26:23] physical relationship sex relationship with the daughters of men are actually fallen angels is that right not correct

[00:26:30] yeah and why do you think that this is the most compelling answer to this

[00:26:37] question of of the sons of God here in the Nephilim well first and foremost I would say I

[00:26:43] think that’s exactly what the language of the text is saying when you look at that that hebrew term Binet hai Elohim

[00:26:50] in Genesis 6:2 1764 which is translated as son of God the only other time that

[00:26:55] used in the Old Testament in Hebrew it’s referring to angelic beings so for

[00:27:02] example job 38:7 when it says that the Morningstar saying together and the sons of God shouted for joy that’s the same

[00:27:08] term and it’s referring to when God had laying the foundation the years before mankind even made so it can’t be

[00:27:14] referring to human beings there and think things through and Jobe 1 and 2 when it says that there came a day when

[00:27:19] the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them it’s referring to

[00:27:24] this meeting in heavenly so to speak and so they’re the sons of God there as well

[00:27:31] but so that’s the way the term is used throughout the Old Testament there’s one place where that you know some of the

[00:27:36] old fashions written in Aramaic like the follow of a half of Daniel and when

[00:27:41] Nebuchadnezzar throws the three used into the fiery furnace Shadrach Meshach and Abednego and he goes to look at it

[00:27:48] he says I see a fourth one walking around in the permits and he had the appearance or of a and he used the

[00:27:56] Aramaic bar Elohim which would be equivalent and then a few verses later he said that you know the God of the

[00:28:02] Hebrews has sent his angel so it actually equates those two terms for us and it shows us how that that

[00:28:09] term was used it’s the early like I mentioned before this be among all of the Jewish writers during

[00:28:15] intertestamental period it’s the view of the early church father that I think it’s also the view that you see in the

[00:28:21] New Testament I think that Jude refers to it in his letter that’s where angel didn’t keep their own position but deserted their proper

[00:28:28] dwelling and then you put that meant in context is what was happening at Sodom Gomorrah you see 1st and 2nd Peter also speak of

[00:28:35] angels who sinned in the days of Noah or spirits of cinnamon days of no other held in Chains of darkness until the day

[00:28:41] of judgment so I think it’s very consistent reading of the passages

[00:28:46] throughout Scripture yeah and I thought that’s why I find it to be the most compelling yeah that’s really

[00:28:52] interesting you know do you think there’s any relationship here between the you know I read the book

[00:29:00] alien true intrusion by Gary Bates and he talks about how the phenomenon of

[00:29:07] alien abductions and so forth there’s a very there’s a lot of sexual

[00:29:13] overtones in alien abduction stories and he he concludes that this is actually a

[00:29:19] demonic thing do you think there is have you thought at all about the connection there I have in fact a chapter 31 in the

[00:29:28] book is called have evil spirits continue to assault women and what I do is trace historically from really fun

[00:29:37] like the 312 hundreds all the way up to modern day where there are things that

[00:29:42] sound very similar even somebody like Agustin the church father he he could

[00:29:48] not stand the fallen angel view but he had a statement about how he’s heard so many other people report that it would

[00:29:54] be foolish to deny it but that the Incubus and succubus have made wicked

[00:30:00] assault upon women and you know while they sleep and so he’s talking about how these demons sexually assault women

[00:30:07] while they sleep II believe that but he didn’t hold to the phonemes of you of Genesis 6 which is a little bit ironic

[00:30:12] that is but you yeah but you see the same thing throughout history like I

[00:30:17] mentioned the Incubus and succubus the children’s and the fawns early but that’s what they were early on as well so I have a whole chapter going through

[00:30:24] that and I do mention the alien abduction scenario and I’m familiar with

[00:30:29] the book that units and then the the movie that they made as well and of

[00:30:34] course I’m not going to say every single pension they claimed that they were abducted by aliens it’s a you know a demonic yeah and the word I hope

[00:30:41] sometimes it might be psychological there may be a lot of things going on but I find it fascinating that the times

[00:30:48] where somebody cried out to Jesus who how to stop it to make that yeah yeah

[00:30:53] that’s pretty that seems a little coincidental yeah so another question

[00:31:00] for you you know something that’s really interesting in the Book of Daniel how you talk about one that was like a son

[00:31:05] of God and we also know that’s where the phrase son of man comes from for Jesus because

[00:31:12] Daniel later on says I saw one like a son of man coming on the clouds in glory and then Jesus later on refers to

[00:31:18] himself I’m that I’m essentially that one I’m the son of man because it’s

[00:31:23] within the same book there what is the contrast between you know the phrase or is there any I don’t I’m

[00:31:30] just asking is there any difference between when Daniel uses that phrase son

[00:31:35] of man versus the phrase he uses son of God

[00:31:42] nor do you have you looked into that at all is that something that’s yeah I’ve looked I mean it’s not obviously done

[00:31:47] same term yeah but it because yes son of man is viewed as a messianic title there

[00:31:53] he’s the one who comes before the Ancient of Days and he’s given the Dominion and glory and kingdom and you’re right he used that New Testament

[00:31:59] especially before the high priest mm-hmm and he cites this passage but in Daniel

[00:32:07] rule what the term refers to when Symphony high lurking does the word Elohim is used about 2,000 times in the

[00:32:15] Bible and about 90% of the time it refers to the one true God the creator of heaven earth in the beginning God

[00:32:21] Elohim created the heavens and the earth and that’s how it’s used most of the time but it’s also used to refer to

[00:32:28] angels you made them a little bit lower than the Elohim psalm 8:5 Chocula and

[00:32:34] hebrews core 10 says angels it’s used in deuteronomy 32:17 to talk about demons

[00:32:40] and it’s used in 1st Samuel 28 when Saul

[00:32:45] goes to the the witch or the medium at Endor yeah and she tried to call of

[00:32:51] Samuel and said that she saw a spirit ascending out of the abyss she saw a out

[00:32:57] of the pit out of the pit is day she saw an Elohim are sending out of the pit so

[00:33:02] what it really refers to it’s not just it’s not a name for God at 8 it’s a title mm-hmm his name is Yahweh but what

[00:33:09] is returned to have an entity who is belong to the spiritual realm that’s where they usually move about and so

[00:33:18] it’s always referring to a spiritual entity so somebody who is a son of that it just means that they’re part of that

[00:33:24] class like the final speak of the sons of the prophets that Saul went to one

[00:33:29] time Samuel was there and elijan wisest because the time of the prophet doesn’t mean they’re all physical sons of

[00:33:34] prophetess knew they belong to that class or that’s cool so that’s how that Hebrew term is used

[00:33:42] when it’s his son up in that sense of belonging to the spiritual that makes

[00:33:48] sense so we’re coming up on our last break here but so

[00:33:54] curious to know you know how big do you think these giants were these sons of

[00:34:02] the Nephilim how big were they and is is there a relationship there with Goliath

[00:34:09] and then I’m also curious to know if there’s any archaeological evidence or

[00:34:15] extra biblical evidence that supports this idea of giants actually being around so my guest today is Tim Chaffee

[00:34:22] risen min comm Nephilim book.com you can check him out he’s the author of fallen

[00:34:27] the sons of God and the Nephilim very interesting subject to be studying and irrelevant to some surprisingly relevant

[00:34:35] because it deals with the issue of ok why did God wipe out certain people in the Old Testament

[00:34:40] so that’s a very important subject so feel free to check him out and check out what he’s doing his ministry he speaks

[00:34:47] all over the place so if you’re looking for somebody to speak on apologetics this is a great option and we’re gonna

[00:34:54] be right back we have one more segment left so stay with us [Music]

[00:35:04] Luke Gibson of LG equipment supports educate for life with Kevin Conover Luke

[00:35:09] grew up in the construction industry and now serves LG’s commercial and residential customers throughout

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[00:35:37] [Music] thanks for being with us today this is

[00:35:42] educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover and we got a beautiful summer time summer happening here in San Diego

[00:35:48] Southern California I’m on Cape Rays 106.1 that’s FM 106.1 in North County as

[00:35:55] well as AM 1210 here in San Diego we broadcast locally and that’ll air on

[00:36:00] Sunday at 10 p.m. we also are podcasting we’re on YouTube on the YouTube channel

[00:36:05] we’re on Facebook so there’s all kinds of avenues you can check this information out you can share it you can see previous interviews we got

[00:36:12] interviews with archaeologists with famous scientists with people who are former atheists former Muslims all kinds

[00:36:21] of amazing interviews with people I’ve got I believe over somewhere around 150 interviews now and so if you need that

[00:36:28] resource if you would find that useful please check it out educate for life org is my website all kinds of resources

[00:36:34] there for you my guest today is Tim Chaffee risen min comm he is also

[00:36:40] involved in working with Answers in Genesis and fantastic ministry there in Kentucky and and you can check that

[00:36:48] ministry out also Answers in Genesis org aig so Tim when we left off we are

[00:36:56] talking about the Nephilim it looks like from your perspective these are giants they’re literally the offspring of a

[00:37:03] essentially a relationship God didn’t want to happen which is between fallen angels and humans and women and these

[00:37:14] giants are being produced through this relationship somehow I don’t know how the genetics and all that

[00:37:20] works but but for some reason these angels are able to manifest physically

[00:37:25] and that looks like that that is scriptural how big do you think the offspring of these sons of God were do

[00:37:33] you have any thoughts on that I do yeah that’s a chapter 24 in my book is called

[00:37:38] how tall were the Giants and when you look online this is where I mention some of the sensational things that are out

[00:37:43] there you’ll see some people saying there were twenty four feet tall thirty six feet tall or you know they have all

[00:37:48] sorts of these you know mock-up of skeletons that would be really really tall yeah and there’s some problems with

[00:37:55] making them too large and I’ll just give you an example I mentioned that I’m about six foot nine and I weigh of

[00:38:01] roughly 250 pounds so if King aughh who’s mentioned in Deuteronomy 3 and

[00:38:07] mentioned the length of his bed that it was thirteen and a half feet long he’s the last of the raheem which is another

[00:38:13] term for giants if he was as tall as the bed is long that would mean he’s exactly

[00:38:18] twice my height so some people want to say that he’s 13 feet 6 inches tall that would mean if he were my my build he

[00:38:28] would not want you don’t just double the weight you would have to multiply the weight by 8 that would make him 2,000

[00:38:33] pounds whoa and so that starts to create all sorts of stresses on the skeletal

[00:38:38] structure and on the organs and all sorts of other issues so I find it very difficult to think that he could have

[00:38:44] been that tall yeah and I had a friend in in high school who he was very very

[00:38:51] tall maybe somewhere around your height and he actually had problems because his

[00:38:57] heart could not was having trouble pumping the blood all the way down to his feet and then all the way back again

[00:39:02] mm-hmm yeah that’s very common for people who are really large yeah so you have Goliath in the

[00:39:10] Masoretic text which will be used for our Old Testament Center and speaking is mention of being 6 cubits and a span so

[00:39:16] about 9 foot 9 there’s some other manuscripts that have him being a bit shorter maybe even down to my height 6

[00:39:23] but not 6 or 9 which is hard to imagine the entire Israel army being afraid of

[00:39:28] somebody my size but um and him carrying all the weaponry that he has the armory the armor that he

[00:39:35] has and when it describes the weight of those things it’s very difficult I think he was just my size but you do have

[00:39:42] you’d mentioned before the break wondering other theological evidence yeah you know we don’t have any

[00:39:48] skeletons or bones or anything there’s are a lot of reported ones but nothing that’s been verified yeah I’ve looked

[00:39:54] them up on the internet there’s lots of pictures but you can’t really find anything that supports those pictures no

[00:40:02] in fact there was a Photoshop contest maybe works 15 years ago where people were digging up giant skeletons and now

[00:40:07] there are just normal skeletons and they would put people by them and make them a lot larger larger to make the people look tiny and yeah some of the skeletons

[00:40:14] are the same in different dates so it’s obviously fake but we do have several Egyptian writers

[00:40:21] writing that speak of the an Hakeem being in the land and they also call them the sha tsui and in there in one of

[00:40:30] their writings I believe it’s called crash would describe and I’ve got this in the book as well they mentioned them being up to about

[00:40:35] eight foot seven oh that’s hinge yeah it did pretty big that puts it in

[00:40:41] that Goliath range and then you also have lets you have a actual relief a

[00:40:49] carving of two shafts of spies being captured and it showed the Egyptian

[00:40:55] beating on them where they go whips and the two spies are down on their knees and on their knees they’re as big

[00:41:02] they’re already as tall as the people who are standing over them beating them now in a lot of reliefs like that you

[00:41:08] would make your your kingly big you would never make your captives big and look more improved unless they actually

[00:41:14] really big yeah that makes a lot of sense so they yeah so the picture that in the books right I estimate that they

[00:41:21] were probably somewhere between eight to ten feet and you know you have in the Bible where one of david’s mighty men

[00:41:28] fought against an Egyptian man who was really large called him a man of measured he was five cubits total of

[00:41:34] seven 1/2 b12 but it doesn’t identify him in the giant but the other one that

[00:41:39] does talk about in giants like descendants of Goliath and they seem like maybe they were a bit

[00:41:45] bigger than that oh that’s really interesting so so there is plenty of

[00:41:51] evidence to support it both extra-biblical and of course from a exegetical perspective – like you said a

[00:41:58] systematic study of the scriptures it does look like this is true now earlier

[00:42:04] when we are talking we are you were talking about how God wipes out people

[00:42:10] where these these groups of people are mentioned and you said there are two popular skeptical arguments that are

[00:42:18] raised against the character of God that once you get a grip on this it helps to answer those what was the second one how

[00:42:25] is that integrated there yeah well the second one would actually be if you think about before the flood

[00:42:31] yeah and so people wonder why would God you know wipe out the whole world and if

[00:42:37] you read this passage from the other perspectives anything alike what the whole world because he had godly men

[00:42:43] marrying ungodly women is he going to wipe it out because you had kings you know taking one into their harems these

[00:42:49] are things that have happened throughout history it out severe judgment being levelled on the whole world yeah but you

[00:42:55] but you if you have this going on in abundance and then you have the passage

[00:43:01] in Genesis 6 where it says that others the genealogy of Noah knows a man

[00:43:06] perfect in his generations and what I’m not completely positive on this point

[00:43:13] but I’ve been told by one of the top Hebrew scholars in the world that the

[00:43:19] word there in this context refers to Noah being unblemished untainted was Oh

[00:43:26] a meaning that that would be why his why he gets to go through and through the flood whereas the rest of the people were tainted in some way which if this

[00:43:34] passage you know 10 to 6 1 through 4 my understanding is correct it seems like

[00:43:39] they had influenced most of the world in that way so if you think about the

[00:43:45] importance of that the Messiah had to be a descendant of Noah and he had to be a descendant of Adam so if they had done

[00:43:52] this if they had infected the line so much that Jesus would come through them

[00:43:58] then would he be the Son of God or were to be one of the son of the son of one of the other entities that’s interesting

[00:44:05] so so are are you saying there’s a physical aspect to you know genetically

[00:44:11] somebody being tainted or how does this where does this land us theologically

[00:44:17] when it comes to that sort of thing you know perspective that the because of

[00:44:23] the Fallen Angels influence these people are essentially you know how does this

[00:44:28] relate to being born a sinner like David says right we’re all born into sinned Christ said were born right into sin how

[00:44:34] does this relate to that as far as you know angels versus people being born into sin so are you asking what the

[00:44:43] offspring have an opportunity yeah I’m curious as to why they would have to be

[00:44:48] wiped out is there a you have a thought on that or what do you think well I

[00:44:54] think if that view was correct about Genesis 69 about Noah being untainted and like I said I’m not completely

[00:45:00] convinced to that but that is from somebody who was quite the expert in Hebrews young is it so if that’s

[00:45:07] accurate then I think what it was saying that the Messiah can’t be a descendant

[00:45:12] of one of these entities he can’t be descended from somebody who was who had that in their heritage hmm so he has to

[00:45:21] be some who is it really from Adam not from a different entity oh very interesting huh well that’s really cool

[00:45:29] my guest today was Tim Chaffee and we’re just about out of time here risen min comm if you want to learn more

[00:45:35] about his ministry and what he’s doing Nephilim book.com if you’re interested in picking up the book that would be

[00:45:41] great and there’s so much to cover on this subject there’s so many more how many pages is the book Tim it’s nearly

[00:45:48] 500 I think it’s 476 Wow that that is a serious effort so so

[00:45:54] if you really want to know more about this and you want to have good answers for people who who are asking about it and you want a good systematic

[00:46:00] explanation of the Nephilim check out his book Tim thanks so much for being on the program today I really appreciate it

[00:46:05] Kevin thanks so much for having me I enjoyed it you got it I learned a ton so that was a big blessing anyway I hope

[00:46:11] you if you’re listening I hope you having a great summer so far and I hope you’re having a good time and we’ll be back next week I’m going to be on

[00:46:19] podcast of Andrew Rapoport tomorrow and we’ll be talking about apologetics and the need in the upcoming

[00:46:26] generations again my websites educate for life org check it out when you get a chance and thanks for being with us

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