How to Fight For a Great Marriage – Dr. Greg Smalley

[00:00:00] four three nine seven nineteen and now here’s your host Kevin Conover bring

[00:00:06] your time hey welcome to educate for life radio and podcast I’m your host Kevin Conover my web sites educate for

[00:00:12] life.org if you are concerned about your children having a strong faith please visit my website at four life.org I’ve

[00:00:19] got all kinds of classes on there that are meant to build your children up in

[00:00:24] the faith help them to be able to answer the questions that are coming their way as they move on in life out of high

[00:00:29] school and so forth I just recently got a text from a student that just started his first year at college

[00:00:34] Jackson is his name and he was texting me mr. Conover I want to write a paper on why I know God exists and so he used

[00:00:45] my website for all this information he put together a paper there that he’s presenting to his professor he’s at a

[00:00:50] school in Arizona and so if that’s the kind of stuff that you are interested in for your children to help build them up

[00:00:57] in their faith in God please check it out educate for life.org today we titled the show after a book

[00:01:03] and I’ll tell you who the books by in just a minute here but the title of the book is fight your way to a better marriage and I thought wow that is a

[00:01:09] quite a title it is not intuitive to fight your way to a better marriage but it’s very provocative and our guest

[00:01:17] today is gonna explain the title but let me tell you a little bit about him he serves as the vice president of marriage

[00:01:22] at focus on the family he develops and oversees initiatives that prepare individuals for marriage they strengthen

[00:01:28] and nurturing nurture existing marriages and help couples in marital crisis prior

[00:01:34] to joining focus he worked for the Center for relationships enrichment at John Brown University and served as

[00:01:40] president of the National Institute of marriage he’s the author of 12 books including crazy little thing called

[00:01:46] marriage and the book I already gave you fight your way to a better – marriage his name is dr. Greg Smalley

[00:01:53] Greg thanks for being on the program today hey thank you Kevin thanks for having me absolutely it’s a real privilege to have you here and you you

[00:02:00] are in the business of helping people better their marriages and you’re actually going to be out here in San Diego in about a week you’re going to be

[00:02:08] actually encouraging people in their marriages and relationships right we are I can’t wait that’s one of the things that my wife

[00:02:15] and I’d love to do we’ve been married 27 years and have four kids and we just we love we counsel couples we’d love to

[00:02:22] speak and write and so we can’t wait to be out there and just to encourage couples on how to have a better marriage

[00:02:27] yeah that’s gonna be a blast I’m actually gonna be there myself so I’m looking forward to that my wife and I will be there and if you’re interested

[00:02:34] in listening to Greg and Aaron Smalley you can visit shadow Mountain Community

[00:02:39] Church on September 20th there’s gonna be awesome worship there by Michael Sanchez of the voice you’re gonna have a

[00:02:44] Christian comedian Dennis Gaxiola if I’m pronouncing that correctly and also Margie Hill with Southern California

[00:02:51] seminary is gonna be speaking also you can register register at kp.org/mydoctor

[00:03:18] did Mary job yeah yeah we actually were we were laying in bed one night she just

[00:03:25] she said hey how am i doing as a wife and so my response was felling loaded

[00:03:31] question right yeah but I thought fine was you know I thought that was a good response well she didn’t like that she’s

[00:03:37] a nurse and so she said we’ll think of it this way zero to 10 10 being the best job zero

[00:03:43] being the worst how would you rate me that’s like hey let’s bring it right

[00:03:50] exactly so I thought I came up with a really good answer and so I I said honey

[00:03:56] I’m I’m happy to tell you that you are a 9.3 it’s packaged in my mind was such a

[00:04:04] good thing because I grew as a C student yeah so you know I never brought a 93

[00:04:10] percent an A home ever so the rater of that but what I didn’t

[00:04:15] understand is that my wife had graduated as a 4.3 that was her GPA 4.3 GPA in

[00:04:23] high school and so yeah we get into this big huge fight in I think the argument ended

[00:04:30] when she goes oh yeah I may be a 9.3 but at least I’m not a 5

[00:04:37] well student I thought that’s about right so I can I can handle that in in

[00:04:43] sadly Kevin Herron and I over the next several years we just really poorly

[00:04:49] handled conflict and to the point that that I I honestly thought we were one

[00:04:55] more arguments away from her leaving and it was it was by the grace of God we we

[00:05:01] were introduced to a mentor couple we got counseling we really started to then learn how do we manage our different

[00:05:08] system in work through conflict in a way that it actually brings us closer together in and so that’s become a real

[00:05:15] passion of ours is because we know other couples struggle with working through conflict and we believe that your

[00:05:22] marriage needs conflict yeah and it’s it’s through conflict it’s when

[00:05:28] we face these differences when we when we tackle our issues that’s when we

[00:05:34] learn things that’s when we grow that’s that’s when I learn new things about me about my wife about maybe something

[00:05:41] that’s not working in our marriage so that they’re there there are good things that we can learn if we learn to do this

[00:05:46] right so that was really that the story behind the book is we were like well we we conflict almost ruined us so let’s go

[00:05:54] do this out and then help other couples learn to do this well that’s fantastic because you know it’s one thing to hear

[00:05:59] something from somebody who you know maybe you look at them and you go oh you guys have the perfect marriage but here you are you’re coming from the

[00:06:04] background of know we’ve been through this and we know we can understand we’re empathetic with where you’re coming from

[00:06:11] and you know that in my own marriage I think I could say the same thing in the

[00:06:16] sense that when my wife and I got together there was a lot of things we didn’t understand about each other we

[00:06:21] didn’t understand the way the one person thought there were different expectations and it like you said

[00:06:26] created a lot of conflict and that conflict didn’t seem like a good thing so what do you say to the person because

[00:06:32] you said you you just made the statement that conflict is necessary it’s healthy what do you say the person who’s

[00:06:38] avoiding conflict and is like whoa you know what every time we get in a disagreement

[00:06:44] it it blows up so our our strategy is to avoid that conflict it does that work or

[00:06:50] is that something that you’re saying hey this is a red flag here don’t do that so

[00:06:56] it’s a huge it’s like it it doesn’t work because we bury every emotion alive so

[00:07:02] when we fail to deal with our issues when we bury stuff when we sweep issues

[00:07:08] under the rug and how that stuff is still alive it’s festering it will come out in and sadly over time what happens

[00:07:15] when we don’t face our issues and we don’t learn how to work through conflict we often then start to do with our

[00:07:23] issues as individuals we stop dealing with them as a couple we deal with them

[00:07:28] as individuals it really begins to create a divide in our relationship and

[00:07:34] over time that divide turns very very lonely and when lonely sets into a marriage that that is such a a big red

[00:07:42] flag in in verses and I say I mean when I say you need complicated healthy

[00:07:48] conflict healthy conflict is a good thing combat is a bad thing in in Harran

[00:07:55] and I used early in our marriage we do the combat stuff we would you know I would be withdrawing she might be

[00:08:01] escalating and in yelling I mean what we just we just did it in a way that would

[00:08:08] never bring us together versus and we still have conflict which is good in in

[00:08:14] there are times that we poorly handle that but but now I can tell you we know what to do eventually to get back on

[00:08:21] track and I can tell you that I’m a huge conflict avoider yeah I I hate rocking

[00:08:28] the boat you know I hate when we’re not in harmony but I’ve learned that that

[00:08:33] true courage is facing those difference you know peace is not the absence of

[00:08:39] conflict pieces when we we actually deal with our issues in in a productive

[00:08:45] healthy way that generates a peace that’s authentic not something that you’re just faking and you’ve got a

[00:08:51] because I was thinking about what you’re saying if you if you disconnect you begin to pretend

[00:08:56] you’re somebody that you’re not and pretty soon your spouse doesn’t even know who you are anymore because you’re

[00:09:02] not showing them who you actually are very much so in and that doesn’t feel safe to either person when we don’t face

[00:09:09] our differences and we stuff that stuff and sweep it under the rug that just doesn’t feel safe and when people don’t

[00:09:15] feel safe in their marriage their hearts will close in over time a closed heart can harden and that’s why Jesus

[00:09:22] literally the only time he ever talked about marriage he said well Moses permitted you to

[00:09:27] divorce because of the hardness of your heart and that’s the danger is if we if

[00:09:32] we don’t deal with our differences and allow all except to fester and the

[00:09:38] resentment to build it just it takes a toll on our heart and it hardens absolutely and that’s that’s a that’s

[00:09:45] another big big red flag so you know if you’re listening I’m talking to dr. Greg

[00:09:51] Smalley he’s written 12 books on relationships and marriage and his wife and him this is what they do for a

[00:09:56] career if you want to join us on September 20th he’s going to be speaking his wife’s gonna be speaking out at

[00:10:02] shadow Mountain Community Church and there’s gonna be all kinds of worship out there with Michael Sanchez if the

[00:10:08] voice of your if you ever watch the voice he is a contestant on there made it to the final rounds there and I think

[00:10:13] he should have won but there’s also going to be a comedian and inspiration by Margie Hill with Southern California

[00:10:20] seminary it’s gonna be a great night we’re talking about marriage and marriage is such a gigantic issue because Greg what you’re talking about

[00:10:27] when you say you say you know your hardness your heart gets hard and all and this isn’t just between that couple

[00:10:34] this has an impact on the relationships that are next to them they’re their children their relatives everybody and

[00:10:41] then ultimately it has a huge impact on culture we’re gonna continue to talk to dr. Smalley we’re gonna be talking about

[00:10:47] the biggest challenges facing couples today and we’re gonna also talk about tips on how to build a great marriage so

[00:10:53] this is a great opportunity to connect with him if you want to call in you have a question and you feel free to do that

[00:11:00] give us a call the number is up on our social media we’re all over Facebook and YouTube and everywhere else so feel free

[00:11:06] to call in if you have a question we’re going take a quick break but we’ll be right back [Music]

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[00:12:45] welcome to educate for life we’re on the second segment here and we are airing

[00:12:51] all over social media we’re on YouTube we’re on Facebook we’re on periscope trying to get the word out there we’re

[00:12:56] trying to get God’s perspective on relationships and specifically today what we’re talking about is marriage you

[00:13:02] know my students every year when I go through the they go through the apologetics class we always do a unit on

[00:13:08] relationships both avoiding a broken heart and dating as well as hey am i preparing myself for my future spouse

[00:13:14] and some students will ask me mr. Conover what does this have to do with apologetics but the reality is is that

[00:13:19] the Bible if it’s a book about anything it’s a book about relationships right it’s a book about a relationship with God it’s a book about our relationships

[00:13:25] with our neighbor and there’s a ton of talk about marriage dr. Smalley is with us today dr. Greg

[00:13:32] Smalley he’s the author of 12 books if you want to learn more about him you can go to focus on the family calm and his

[00:13:39] wife also works with him in marriage too and they talk all over the place so Greg

[00:13:45] when we left off we were talking about this and I wanted to ask you you you were talking about healthy conflict in

[00:13:51] marriage from your book fight your way to a better marriage how does learning how to fight in marriage how does that

[00:13:58] impact your kids I mean is there a how does that affect the relationship with the children and their their growth

[00:14:05] their upbringing well it’s they they have to see this model working through our problems

[00:14:12] because I mean I talk to countless people who will say well I never saw my parents fight I’m sure they did but it

[00:14:18] wasn’t in front of us in I’m not advocating that 8 to talk about anything

[00:14:24] in front of your kids but but the fact is that my children I have four kids they say you need to see that mom and

[00:14:31] dad can disagree can do that in a healthy way and then can bring this

[00:14:37] discussion to a resolution in a way that feels good to both of them and so

[00:14:43] because although I mean we all know like when when Erin and I are in a disagreement especially when our kids

[00:14:49] were young and they they go out of their way to try to referee to a idea they’d

[00:14:56] be drawing us pictures and bringing them up you guys stuff like me you know I mean

[00:15:02] it just it freaks them out yeah it’s hard on them when mom or dad are in

[00:15:08] disagreement when would we experience conflict in in and so I always encourage parents the the the key is to in those

[00:15:16] moments when your kids are kind of freaking up like my youngest daughter Annie would take our hands and join them

[00:15:22] together okay and in what we what we tried to do with our kids was to to

[00:15:27] acknowledge that they were scared so I would say something like hey Annie I know that this is I know it’s scary to

[00:15:34] watch mom and dad fight right yeah but but you got to know my dad we love each other

[00:15:39] but like you and your brother we just for half times we don’t see eye-to-eye and we disagree but I know that’s scary

[00:15:45] and then what we would do is we would encourage them to do something that’s

[00:15:50] healthy instead of feeling responsible like they’ve got to mediate we would say

[00:15:56] hey if you feel like you know my 8-1 I understand mom and dad we have this we’ll work this through we’re okay but

[00:16:02] if you feel like you need to do something why don’t you go in maybe go

[00:16:08] to your room and pray for mom and dad not that that we really listen to God and that we honor him and honor each

[00:16:14] other and so it gave them something that they could do besides you know coloring a you know some sort of scary picture

[00:16:22] yeah yeah you know gave them something to do that they felt that that then they can contribute there was healthy yeah in

[00:16:28] sorry kids they need to see us work through conflict in a helpless in a

[00:16:34] healthy way and even if even if we need to talk about a certain issue in private oh it go bring your kids together

[00:16:42] afterwards and say hey listen I know that was scary mom and dad were fighting but and we’re good we love each other we

[00:16:48] work this through we figured out a solution that feels good to both of us so thanks for thanks for praying for us

[00:16:53] something like that that that’s a healthy way to teach your kids you know how to deal with your conflict which

[00:17:00] will set them up someday I mean our our the way that my wife and I love each

[00:17:07] other that’s the blueprint for their relationship someday and I want to know that conflict is natural normal

[00:17:15] and can be such a good thing if you learn how to do that in a healthy way yeah I I really that really resonates

[00:17:22] with me what you’re saying there because I know in my own upbringing I did get to

[00:17:27] see my parents fight once in a while but they they did typically go behind closed

[00:17:33] doors and they didn’t I didn’t watch that happen and I know for my older brother he said he never saw my mother

[00:17:38] and father fight and for him it actually made it more difficult for him to know

[00:17:43] okay so how do I deal with this sort of conflict when I get into it so can you

[00:17:50] give us an example of maybe one of the most common ways in which couples fight

[00:17:56] in an unhealthy manner me it contrasted with what you now teach people maybe

[00:18:03] something that happens up most frequently yeah I tell you the greatest thing that I’ve ever learned about conflict I mean this this was the game

[00:18:10] changer for me when I said that the Aaron and I fought a lot we we were at a bad place

[00:18:16] this is what changed when I learned that when when Aaron and I get into an

[00:18:21] argument that in in in our you know our buttons get pushed what happens is when

[00:18:28] when we fight my heart shuts down you think about the little Rollie pollie bug

[00:18:33] you know you kind of flick it and it instantly closes up that’s just the way that God designed our heart when in the

[00:18:40] midst of conflict our hearts will shut down and then we become unsafe see when

[00:18:46] my heart is shut down that’s when I’m dangerous that’s when I could say things to my wife that aren’t honoring you know

[00:18:54] that’s when I might you know slam something on the counter I mean just you think about the things that you’ve done

[00:19:00] that you went oh my goodness I never thought I would say that or do that well we do those things simply because our

[00:19:07] heart is closed and so what what I’d started to learn was to get really

[00:19:13] really good at recognizing where I’m shut down I have no business trying to

[00:19:19] work something through with my wife I have no business staying in that conversation because who knows what’ll

[00:19:25] happen when hearts closed I’m not thinking about her I’m thinking about me I want her to hear

[00:19:32] and understand me in those moments I’m not being loving because I’m so shut

[00:19:37] down but see what I didn’t know is is when Aaron and I would fight see I just

[00:19:43] would try to power through all that and somehow we could have a conversation that would make some difference the fact

[00:19:50] is the best thing you can do when you recognize your own heart is shut down take a break just just go off go pray go

[00:19:59] listen to some music go for a walk do something to get your heart back open

[00:20:05] because when our hearts are open actually that’s when we can have good productive you know christ-like

[00:20:12] conversations see that was that no one ever told me that I had no clue to even

[00:20:18] think about where is my heart is it open right now to my wife or is this shut down so when you when you say Greg when

[00:20:27] you say my heart shut down versus my heart is open I’m understanding I think

[00:20:32] what you’re saying there as far as meaning you’re when your heart shuts down you’re no longer thinking about the

[00:20:39] other person you’re thinking more about your own priorities and your own desires and what you want is that what you’re

[00:20:44] talking about absolutely you think about like I’ll ask people you know describe what it might

[00:20:50] look like if someone was shut down so if their heart is closed and you know that it’s when we’re sitting there maybe with

[00:20:57] a scowl on her face or you know we feel angry our heart rates gone up

[00:21:02] we crossed you know we kind of fold our arms the international you know sign

[00:21:08] we’re we’re not thinking about the other person we’re so aware of our own pain

[00:21:13] our own our own hurt we get sarcastic we get angry I’m tell me if you were

[00:21:18] yelling and you were angry your heart is also closed so again it’s starting to

[00:21:24] learn like I asked my kids one time hey Addie how do you know if dad’s heart is shut down I may have heard us talk about that

[00:21:30] thinking either I would I don’t do anything well I’m telling you my kids instantly kind of smiled at each other

[00:21:37] and I went what what do I do and they dad when you get really quiet and you

[00:21:43] start to bite your lower lip we know this you do we need to be

[00:21:49] careful because we know you’re shut down and I started to think about it I was like oh man I totally do that I get

[00:21:55] silent and I just can’t start to gnaw on my own lip and so you think you have

[00:22:01] problems at least you don’t you know chew on parts of your body you’re prettier shut down but you know first so

[00:22:08] for some of us we get super silent we get super withdrawn others get get massively animated we start to have

[00:22:15] these negative beliefs about our spouse that’s the sign that that you’re shut down in and I tell you God made it my

[00:22:24] heart is my responsibility that’s how he created the system my wife is not

[00:22:30] responsible for my heart being open or closed that that is my job in you

[00:22:35] reference kind of when you talk to your students you talk about the greatest commandment to love God to love others

[00:22:41] as you love yourself and I think a part of loving our own

[00:22:46] self is making sure that our hearts stay open who King Solomon why is this man that ever lived said one time said above

[00:22:54] all else he said guard your heart because your heart is where God’s love

[00:23:00] flows out from and so when my heart is shut down I mean God’s loves no longer flowing through me yeah in in that seat

[00:23:07] that’s why that’s such a dangerous place in conflict if your heart is closed and

[00:23:13] good at recognizing that and then just say I need a break I love you but right

[00:23:19] now I’m just shut down I’m gonna go take a break but I’ll be back and we can

[00:23:25] finish this when my heart is open that that’s what I mean by by healthy conflict healthy conflict happens when

[00:23:31] when hearts are open that’s when we can we can deal with with whatever the issues and that just and and would you

[00:23:39] say that just takes practice because you know a lot of people are like oh yeah that’s easy for me to say or listen to

[00:23:44] right now but to do it’s a whole nother thing when you’re in the heat of a you know you’ve got these intense feelings

[00:23:49] and everything it’s just something you got to practice over time is that how works it really it it’s just becoming

[00:23:56] super aware just just start like the best way to begin to practices is just

[00:24:02] start to start to check in every once a while throughout the day throughout the day and go is my heart open now

[00:24:09] or is it closes just begin to notice what what is different about if you’re

[00:24:15] shutting down if something has happened you’re super stressed out super busy just just kind of notice how you feel

[00:24:21] and think am i open or closed right now and the better you get it noticing that

[00:24:26] then the easier it is to recognize it in those moments but I’m telling you when

[00:24:31] everything when we start to battle with our spouse and we’re now arguing and in

[00:24:37] like another big one for me another tip-off that my heart is closed is I get

[00:24:42] super defensive you know I’m defending myself I’m explaining well here and you

[00:24:48] just misunderstood me give me a moment let me tell you what I really meant by that see that’s all a sign that that I’m

[00:24:55] shut down okay in and so just this usually just notice when we’re reacting

[00:25:01] to our spouse that that’s typically a sign that they’re you know what I’m

[00:25:06] probably closed right now and then take take a break it’s okay go get it big drink of water start

[00:25:13] breathing you know all that stuff helps yeah and re-engage man show your kids

[00:25:19] the way we teach this to our kids all the time I’ll say to my youngest re

[00:25:24] Annie he’s 12 oh I’ll say it’d you notice right now just just take notice you’re you’re yelling at your brother

[00:25:30] tell me where he where’s your heart right now towards him totally closed yeah well why don’t you take a break bed

[00:25:37] oh no you need to know I I like honey but he is that loving to him to yell at

[00:25:43] him no but he deserves it is that who you want is that you God’s calling you

[00:25:48] to be no alright we’ll take a break hi your niche you’ll run off your kids

[00:25:55] sound a lot like my kids yeah if I could only come up with the solution on how to

[00:26:01] help them not bicker yeah that’s hilarious hey my guest today is

[00:26:08] dr. Greg small if you’re listening I hope you’re enjoying the program so far that was some fantastic advice focus on

[00:26:14] the family calm and you can check out more about him and his ministry with his wife awesome they speak all over the

[00:26:21] place so if you’re interested in have them come and share with your your group or your church that’s a great

[00:26:27] opportunity to really pour into the hearts of marriages which needed our

[00:26:32] culture is attacking marriage all over the place and so we need as much help as we can get we’re gonna be right back and

[00:26:38] continue to have this conversation we’re talking about the biggest challenges facing couples today as well as tips on how to build a great marriage we’ll be

[00:26:45] right back

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[00:28:21] thanks for being with us today this is Kevin Conover I’m your host on educate for life radio and podcast we air

[00:28:28] locally here in San Diego on FM 996 point one in North County as well as

[00:28:33] Cape Rays 12:10 a.m. and we’re also all over the web I’ve got hundreds of shows

[00:28:39] up on YouTube that you can check out with interviews with people from all over the world testifying to how Christ

[00:28:45] has impacted their life and how God is continuing to minister to them and through them to people all over the

[00:28:51] world my guest today is dr. Greg Smalley and if his name sounds familiar there’s a good chance it’s because you might

[00:28:58] recognize dr. Gary Smalley who is somebody that I actually I was telling

[00:29:05] uh Greg off the air that when I was in high school I was dating a girl and she was really into reading about

[00:29:11] relationships and she said we have to read this book by Gary Smalley and so I was introduced to the Smalley name here

[00:29:17] so Greg you kind of followed in the footsteps of your father I did it was so

[00:29:23] you know I grew up watching him go to marriage seminars I had no idea what he was doing there

[00:29:28] but I just remember people who come up and like give me this awkward hug long hug thank you for sharing your daddy

[00:29:36] used to our marriage and in in I think because because of that that that’s that

[00:29:42] passion kind of was ignited and manat in my heart many many years ago to do the

[00:29:48] same thing and I’m so glad I just I loved in that I’m also quite my favorite

[00:29:53] verse is Hebrews 13:4 which says marriage should be honored by all and that’s really I think the essence of

[00:30:01] what I’m passionate about how do we how do we help people really learn to honor marriage and what what what is the

[00:30:09] significance of marriage for our listeners from your perspective I mean you’re at Focus on the Family and you’re

[00:30:14] you’re an expert in marriage or you’re helping people hold their marriages together what is the significance the

[00:30:20] larger picture of marriage and culture and and a biblical perspective here as far as its impact on culture you know

[00:30:27] just when I tell you when when when couples are married when they’re in a

[00:30:34] healthy mayor Brij what we see is that they just keep investing in in other people and and

[00:30:41] that’s what i love you you you really start to see this multiplication effect because not only do their children then

[00:30:47] grow up in a healthy home and but then they’re more likely to get married they’re more likely to stay married in I

[00:30:55] tell you there’s marriage I mean children nothing benefits children more

[00:31:01] than than growing up in a home with their their mom and dad and I know I

[00:31:06] know that not everybody gets that because their there has been a lot of divorce but that’s that’s what I just

[00:31:13] get so passionate about is going you know what me and they’re there’s so much good information out there now we we

[00:31:19] know how to have good strong marriages in in in unless I just get so much joy

[00:31:27] out of helping people really learn how to do with conflict you know how to how

[00:31:33] to dream together so that they can they can go in in in you know serve the Lord

[00:31:39] together I mean it’s there there’s so many amazing aspects of marriage this is I love being a part of helping people

[00:31:45] really have that marriage that is honoring to them and to God yeah I was

[00:31:51] reading a time article not too long ago that actually stated it was it was a happiness they did this whole huge

[00:31:56] magazine on happiness and one of the things that has come out in the social science is that long-term marriage is

[00:32:03] actually the people that are in these long-term marriages actually end up saying that they are far more fulfilled

[00:32:11] and happy than than any other group of people have you heard that in the literature oh it that is so true

[00:32:18] I mean that some of the happiest people are married especially those long-term couples you know and having been married

[00:32:24] 27 years yeah I just you know here in Aaron and I would always describe

[00:32:29] marriage is a journey member remember Lewis and Clark however they went on

[00:32:35] from our old history books you know they were on this this amazing adventures

[00:32:40] called the Corps of Discovery in when I think about marriage man I think about

[00:32:46] the Aaron and I are in this canoe with our kids you know right in the middle we’re paddling down this river that we’ve never been to we

[00:32:53] have no idea what’s around the next bend is it going to be Rapids and or some

[00:32:59] grizzly bear there or is it going to be just peaceful and we get to play around and jump off the bluffs and you know

[00:33:05] make a fire I mean that what I love about marriage it truly is the greatest adventure isn’t it I love being married

[00:33:12] to my best friend and to be able to to go on this grand adventure with us I

[00:33:18] don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow in in yet man there’s no one more than didn’t

[00:33:24] Aaron that I would rather be journeying with and that’s what I love in in I tell

[00:33:30] you and we can do this in in Aaron and I have hard times and we have very painful times and we have amazing times and we

[00:33:38] laugh together and we cry together in in marriages is all of that there’s no perfect marriage because there’s no

[00:33:44] perfect people it’s just kind of going I always think of a great marriage my

[00:33:50] definition is that Aaron and I loved the direction that we’re going in that we’re

[00:33:56] moving in it’s not about perfection is not about having it all figured out it’s you know what are we moving forward in a

[00:34:04] direction that we both like yeah you know me that’s that’s that success that’s awesome yeah that’s a really

[00:34:11] great way to look at it because sometimes we get caught up with the comparison game and oh that person’s

[00:34:17] marriage is better than mine or we see people on Facebook going oh yeah greatest husband yeah you’re like well

[00:34:22] hi I don’t have to so but but but my question for you is you know there are

[00:34:29] people out there that go yeah your marriage sounds great and all and I know there’s people out there there long term marriage and they’re they’re so

[00:34:35] fulfilled and so happy but they’re in the midst of severe pain and bitterness

[00:34:41] and anger and you know they may be looking at it going oh my marriage is hopeless do you ever feel like there’s a

[00:34:47] point at which it’s hopeless and you know what throw in the towel because you

[00:34:53] know these problems are just too great and you can’t you can’t work through these you know it mean outside of

[00:35:00] domestic violence so if that is present within your mirrors you you need to go

[00:35:07] get help immediately because that’s never okay I Erin I we’re both counselors so you can imagine

[00:35:14] sort of our discussion yeah very fun Erin and I for for many many years

[00:35:21] Raina what’s called hope restored it’s a it’s a marriage intensive program for

[00:35:27] couples in crisis and in in and that’s done now through Focus on the Family so

[00:35:32] we we’ve seen not she and I personally but but throughout the probably 15 years

[00:35:38] we’ve been doing this probably 6,000 couples have gone through this hope restored marriage intensive program and

[00:35:45] and we follow these couples so we want to know how are you doing and what’s really amazing what God has done is that

[00:35:52] 83 percent of those couples are still together now these were couples who were

[00:35:57] like we will do one more thing and then we’re divorcing these are these are couples who faced infidelity and the

[00:36:04] loss of a child and just I mean all the the things that launched us into this deep deep dark crisis in I’ve watched

[00:36:13] God performed thousands of miracles in in in yet – we we only really asked one

[00:36:20] question before a couple can come to this in here’s the question we asked if

[00:36:25] God was to do a miracle in your marriage even if it’s you don’t have to believe

[00:36:30] it’s possible but if he did a miracle would you be open to receiving that

[00:36:35] miracle in in Kevin sometimes you know a hardened heart will say now I’m done I

[00:36:42] want out no I don’t want a miracle in and then we we wish them the best but

[00:36:49] but if someone is saying I don’t think it’s possible but yet I’d receive that then we know least there’s a sliver of

[00:36:57] openness and I just watched God do such amazing things in the midst of it’s a

[00:37:05] four-day program like it’s it’s a it’s five couples for four days two

[00:37:10] counselors in absence personally witnessed just just couples I

[00:37:16] thought they are not going to make it there no way I just watch God and when

[00:37:21] when we let God back in in our heart begins to open is he talks about taking

[00:37:27] that heart of stone and turned it into a heart of flesh and when we really start to figure out what what’s going on at

[00:37:34] the core like what’s our issue and we start to do with that stuff and there’s

[00:37:40] no limit to what God can do that’s why I mean you know I mean I’m here and I mean

[00:37:45] we’re pretty good as counselors but but on our own we can’t do much of anything but tell you what God can do when when

[00:37:53] we’re at least open it’s amazing and there’s enough really good help out

[00:37:58] there and so I just encourage couples if hey if you’re listening right now going

[00:38:03] oh my goodness we could we could use that just go to hope restore calm and check it out I tell you it’ll it’ll rock

[00:38:10] your world it’ll change your life forever that is really really cool and like that like Greg said I really

[00:38:18] encourage you if you’re out there and you’re listening and your marriage is on the rocks and you’re feeling like throwing in the towel I think one of the

[00:38:24] greatest decisions you ever will make is to work hard at making that marriage work and and sometimes the works not as

[00:38:31] hard as you thought it was it sometimes it seems like a mountain but then God

[00:38:36] can work through your hearts and he can move in a way that you didn’t expect and like dr. Smalley said he said 83 percent

[00:38:44] of the couples that have come to this program are still together that’s a four-day program I mean that’s

[00:38:50] incredible that that can happen my guest today is dr. Greg Smalley he’s with Focus on the Family calm and

[00:38:55] please go and he’s got 12 books you can read on relationships that will be a

[00:39:01] blessing to you and may be a blessing to someone you know maybe somebody else needs that encouragement and you can use

[00:39:06] what he has here to reach out to them stay with us we have one more segment left and we’re going to talk about briefly a new book he has coming out

[00:39:14] called reconnected moving from roommates to soulmates in marriage so stay with us

[00:39:20] we’re gonna be right back

[00:39:26] [Music]

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[00:40:11] the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

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[00:40:56] hey thanks for being with us here at educate for life I’m really glad that you joined us for the show if you’re listening on streaming media if you

[00:41:03] didn’t catch everything everything all our shows are recorded and we’ve got an archive you can listen to them on

[00:41:08] podcast they’re on YouTube everywhere and this has been a really fantastic show you know I talk a lot about

[00:41:14] relationships in my curriculum I educate for live org because I’ve found that if

[00:41:19] your relationships aren’t going well it’s very difficult to have a exciting

[00:41:25] vibrant faith where you’re pouring into the lives of other people when you yourself are kind of struggling to hold

[00:41:31] things together and so we talked a lot about God’s perspective on relationships and they’re completely different than

[00:41:37] our a lot of times our natural inclinations God asks us to be selfless

[00:41:43] when we want to be selfish and he asked us to be a servant when we don’t feel like it a lot of times but ultimately

[00:41:48] it’s amazing what God does when we decide to lay our own priorities down

[00:41:54] for a while and allow God to work through that servant heart Greg you know

[00:42:00] you have a book coming out in the spring called reconnected and for some people the relationship isn’t bad but it’s not

[00:42:07] necessarily good either and you you title the subtitle to your book moving from roommates to soul mates in marriage

[00:42:12] is this something you see a lot where people just come in and go you know we just we’ve lost that loving feeling and

[00:42:17] we’re just kind of just sitting around here and nothing’s happening absolutely when as Aaron and I counsel

[00:42:24] couples we talk to couples we started noticing we were hearing sort of this idea of you know I I still love him I’m

[00:42:31] committed to him but man it just feels like we’re married roommates and in the more we heard that the more we started

[00:42:37] digging into okay what is what does that actually mean you know because for some you know let’s say a young couple with

[00:42:43] very very young kids you know they feel like roommates because they’re so exhausted and busy trying to manage you

[00:42:51] know these these little ones I heard someone say one time we’ve seen the enemy of marriage and their little

[00:42:57] that’s right is it hard man that’s a hard season you know no for others it

[00:43:03] could be that you know they’re there they’re they’re not doing a good job taking care of themselves so they’re

[00:43:08] just always exhausted they don’t have anything to give for some they’re there

[00:43:13] they’re just there they’re choosing to invest and other things during times

[00:43:19] that they could actually be investing in one another like I always say remember

[00:43:24] the old video game like it’s like from that early 80s called space invaders oh yeah well well I was I call it

[00:43:32] sacred space invaders because you know we’ve got what like 1400 minutes every

[00:43:38] day well not every one of those minutes now all those minutes are are times that

[00:43:43] we can actually use for to strengthen our marriage but there are times yeah it’s sadly you know for a lot of couples

[00:43:49] then they’re they’re on their cell phone or their they’re on you know Instagram check that’s what I was going to ask you

[00:43:56] is are you seeing more of that now because of you know the social media influence and people that there are a

[00:44:01] lot of times glued to their phones you see that that disconnect happening oh definitely in in and that’s why I think

[00:44:07] that one of the biggest tools that Satan uses against us is is just that that

[00:44:14] busyness or the cell phones all that’s up just because what it does it robs us of times and moments that I could

[00:44:21] actually be talking to my wife but now I’m playing solitaire now I’m checking out you know some sports core you know

[00:44:29] or I’m playing fortnight for this or you know for the third hour yeah I mean we’re just so so I’m not saying that

[00:44:35] stuff is bad so don’t hear me as I he’s against tech yeah I’m just saying notice

[00:44:41] that there are going to be times that you were actually laying in bed together how many of us are sitting with that

[00:44:48] dadgum phone in our hand haha versus saying hey honey how was your day where’s your high was the low of your

[00:44:55] day in in in exactly we just let some of those those key moments go by in in

[00:45:02] actually Aaron and I when when we’re in San Diego I think what like a week that’s really where we’re going to focus

[00:45:08] on we’re going to talk about there are some moments that happen every day in our marriage that we can take advantage

[00:45:14] of to keep our marriage strong so I know for for those who are feeling so busy they’re like okay my plate is already

[00:45:21] overflowing now you’re gonna give me a whole bunch of tips that I got to do yeah very strong like what I’m you know well I

[00:45:28] actually what I would say that person is I’m going to show you what’s already sitting on your plate I guarantee you

[00:45:34] those are there are things that you’re already that happened every day that you could just use to strengthen your

[00:45:40] marriage like just a real quick one a real simple one how you say goodbye to each other you know when someone leaves

[00:45:46] in the morning can strengthen your marriage yeah we can either walk out the

[00:45:51] house and do sort of a wave in a in a fake kiss you know or I can actually

[00:45:57] walk chords in my wife yes I get to kiss on her lips and tell her I love her yeah that’s a connection yeah that’s really

[00:46:04] cool because I think that that what you said resonates with a lot of people they’ve got so much on their plate and

[00:46:09] they’re like oh no no I’m gonna have to do all these other things and and they just throw up their hands going off it I can’t do it but I’ve

[00:46:17] noticed this in my own marriage it’s just slight tweaks that can actually have a gigantic difference and change

[00:46:24] everything which I was really surprised some minor changes I made in my own life

[00:46:29] that really impacted my marriage and so they’re not all these complicated things no it’s perfect like it like there are

[00:46:36] so many times throughout the day that that that people will make little try little bids that make little tiny

[00:46:43] attempts to connect we often just ignore like the other day Erin and I are driving together we’re heading to church

[00:46:50] services driving yeah radios on she’s checking out something on her phone and like if I had a ton of money I’m I I my

[00:46:59] dream vehicle would be a Ford f-150 Raptor like that’s my thing if so one

[00:47:07] came driving towards me and I went oh look it’s a raptor now in that moment I

[00:47:13] was making it a little bid to connect with her yeah his by noticing this Raptor so in

[00:47:19] that moment she can either ignore it she can keep working on the phone on her phone she can say that’s so stupid we

[00:47:27] could never afford that or she could do what she did and she said oh oh that’s

[00:47:33] really cool like is that fast truck all man you have no idea and we had just a

[00:47:38] little 30 second interaction yeah that’s what happened yeah that’s what happens

[00:47:44] every day I I was reading a stat the other day and I it kind of blew me away I’m not sure if it’s true or not it said

[00:47:50] that the average couple only spends about four minutes per day connecting and I thought yeah that seems really low

[00:47:56] yeah it’s it’s that in in in what that that research showed it was they spend

[00:48:03] only four minutes a day in meaningful conversation in in the research went on

[00:48:09] to talk about but B’s the great study they study like 300 couples for like 25

[00:48:14] years and the researcher found that that the difference between happy couples and

[00:48:20] dissatisfied couples was 10 minutes a day of meaningful conversation and so

[00:48:25] it’s like all I have to add is six more minutes a day yeah and that so that’s a big deal and that’s like Aaron and I we

[00:48:32] we do that in a real simple way we just at the end of the evening when we’re laying in bed we will just say what was

[00:48:39] the high every day in the low of your day and I’m telling you that’s our 10 minute connection and that could just

[00:48:45] that keeps us connected that keeps us updated in in current it’s like the it’s

[00:48:51] like remember the old group journey yeah yeah okay I still it’s all really old

[00:48:56] Space Invaders I make my kids I listen to journey there’s a song called faithfully and I wore my favorite lines

[00:49:04] it says that I get the joy of rediscovering you you know but that takes time

[00:49:09] and that’s just not going to happen and that’s why what was the high of your day the low every day that can help us

[00:49:16] rediscover one another every day yeah I think that’s so encouraging because

[00:49:21] again it’s back to that these aren’t gigantic things I think if people knew that these minor tips can make such a

[00:49:29] big difference they wouldn’t feel so hopeless or helpless but I think a lot of people just don’t know they just they

[00:49:35] didn’t there’s no classes you take in high school on you know how to have a great marriage and so a lot of people

[00:49:41] are kind of you’re doing yeah there you go come to Christian high school you people are fumbling in the dark

[00:49:46] because you know they learn from their parents which times weren’t real good examples and so

[00:49:51] they end up you know being really discouraged so dr. Smalley I really want to thank you for being on the program today

[00:49:57] you’ve been a huge blessing so thank you very much yeah you’re more than welcome thank you

[00:50:02] and thank you for what you’re doing to love your ministry so appreciate being on with you absolutely

[00:50:08] Focus on the Family comm if you want to learn more about dr. Greg Smalley and his wife Erin they minister together and

[00:50:15] they’re going to be here in San Diego if you’re local they’re gonna be out at Shadow Mountain Church on September 20th in the evening there’s gonna be dinner

[00:50:21] there’s gonna be comedian there’s gonna be comedy there’s gonna be worship there’s gonna be a message by them about

[00:50:26] marriage and encouraging you in your marriage and that’s being put on by Kay praise KPRC calm and the Southern

[00:50:32] California seminary so I hope you can make it out it’s going to be a big blessing and if you need more

[00:50:38] information about how to strengthen your kids in their faith in God and they’re starting to ask you questions that

[00:50:44] you’re having a hard time answering my website educate for life org is a great place to train them up and help them be

[00:50:50] prepared to be able to be an effective and intelligent witness for Christ if you able to do are articulate the truth

[00:50:57] about the Bible and God’s Word so thanks for being with us today I hope you have a fantastic weekend and I look forward

[00:51:04] to being with you again next time god bless you did you miss part of today’s program don’t worry we’re con mitad to

[00:51:11] helping you get the info you need okay that was dumb but for real visit educate for life con for podcasts and video

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