Evolutionary Fraud – Dr. Jerry Bergman

[00:00:00] 9:7 19 and now here’s your host Kevin Conover bring your time

[00:00:06] welcome to educate for life I’m your host you’re on educate for life radio

[00:00:12] and podcast down here in Southern California and we air on FM 96.1 in

[00:00:17] North County as well as Cape Rays 12:10 a.m. but we’re also all over YouTube Facebook all the different social media

[00:00:24] outlets and we’ve got a fantastic show for you today my guest has taught biology genetics chemistry biochemistry

[00:00:31] anthropology geology and microbiology at Northwest State College in Ohio for over

[00:00:37] 25 years he has nine degrees including seven graduate degrees he’s a graduate

[00:00:42] of the Medical College of Ohio Wayne State University the University of Toledo and Bowling Green State

[00:00:47] University he has over 800 publications in 12 languages and 20 books and

[00:00:52] monographs he’s taught at the Medical College of Ohio he was a research associate there in the Department of

[00:00:58] experimental pathology and he’s also taught six years at the University of Toledo and seven years at Boeing Green

[00:01:04] State University and if that wasn’t enough for you he’s also a fellow of the American scientific Association he’s a

[00:01:09] member of the National Association for the Advancement of science as well as many other associations he’s listed in

[00:01:15] Who’s Who in America Who’s Who in the Midwest and Who’s Who in science and religion boy dr. Bergman I want to ask

[00:01:24] you my first question is what motivates you to get all this done how do you achieve what you’ve achieved it’s

[00:01:30] incredible well I’m strongly motivated to deal with what I see clearly as the

[00:01:35] problems that Darwinism has caused in our society and I see this as a major problem today and not just in the church

[00:01:42] but also in science and in our culture and so therefore there’s a lot of research out there that supports me that

[00:01:49] I’m trying to bring it forth to the public in a readable format so they can read it and benefit from my research as

[00:01:55] well as that of others absolutely and it seems to me frequently the problem isn’t

[00:02:00] not having the truth it’s getting the truth out there would you say that’s that’s true oh yeah it’s there I mean I’m just doing

[00:02:07] a paper now on the origin of lungs in invertebrates and we

[00:02:13] no theory no theory that’s even viable and the theories that Darwin put forth 150 years ago are quite clearly simply

[00:02:20] not true and so fact we haven’t progressed really since Darwin’s ideas about where lungs human lungs came from

[00:02:26] and this information there is not he isn’t but it’s not commonly brought forth in the popular media yeah so you

[00:02:35] know you you’ve written a lot of books and you’re working on a book right now what’s the latest book you’re working on

[00:02:41] well I have two books which should be out any day now one is called Darwinism

[00:02:46] is the doorway to atheism and the next is called science is a doorway to

[00:02:51] Christianity and I show how important science is in leading one to Christianity and this book has about 60

[00:02:59] cases of people who came to Christianity who came to faith in Christ as a result

[00:03:04] of studying science which were not that familiar with that conclusion but indeed

[00:03:09] there’s many many people who have come to faith through that approach and the other one Darwinism or evolution I’m not

[00:03:16] sure what the final title of the you write a book and people think that the author makes all these decisions but

[00:03:21] they don’t the publishers do but probably it’ll be evolution is the doorway to atheism and I show indeed

[00:03:26] were in all the cases these were professed Christians who became atheist as a result of studying evolution

[00:03:34] Darwinism Wow and you know like you said that this is not a common thought most

[00:03:41] people will say hey the more you study science the less you need faith they say you know you have faith in Christianity

[00:03:47] because you don’t understand how the world works and as we learn more about science and everything we no longer need

[00:03:53] the solution to be God how you how would you respond to somebody who said something like that well it said that a

[00:04:00] little bit of knowledge about science can lead one into atheism more knowledge greater knowledge though will lead them

[00:04:07] into theism and Christianity and so and that’s I I don’t know who said that first but I appreciated that when it was

[00:04:14] mentioned to me somewhere some book yeah and basically it’s very true a little

[00:04:19] bit of knowledge to be a problem so dr. Bergman what about you what about your

[00:04:24] own story did you grow up in a Christian family what call due to pursue science you have an

[00:04:29] unusual background you have a you have a background in both the social sciences as well as the hard sciences is a very

[00:04:35] unusual combination what was your background growing up and how did you end up pursuing these interests

[00:04:42] my father was an atheist and so I was grown grow up in that home environment

[00:04:47] and I went to college and I then convinced that evolution and thus atheism is correct and I had a

[00:04:54] superficial knowledge and appeared to me correct when I looked at the pictures in my paleontology book he basically showed

[00:05:01] the evolution of man for monkey and I looked at those pictures and I thought well gee there it is there’s the evidence so obviously we’ve off the

[00:05:08] monkeys because there we got the proof for it well as I studied more and more I realized that that was a simplistic

[00:05:14] conclusion and I realized that this claims that they made were simply today we recognized were wrong in fact I’m

[00:05:21] working on a book where we my co-author and I analyzed carefully the evidence

[00:05:26] for evolution and find there simply no evidence at all for the evolution of humans from any primate ancestor and

[00:05:32] this is just by quoting the scientific research we don’t quote anything else just a science and it’s very clear

[00:05:38] indeed that the evidence is there that indeed we did need often some pre-human

[00:05:44] ate so one of your books that you wrote one of the books you wrote was strictly

[00:05:49] on one of the arguments for evolution which is vestigial organs that we have leftover organs from our evolutionary

[00:05:56] past and this is evidence that we have been evolving but you wrote a whole book debunking this idea what are some of the

[00:06:04] the areas you cover in the book in which you show that vest vestigial organs are still fraudulent I mean I just prior to

[00:06:11] the show I googled vestigial organs and up come all these articles on oh here

[00:06:16] are some of our vestigial organs here’s this here’s that and for a lot of people they look at this and they go well that’s a pretty good argument and I

[00:06:23] think it’s true what would you say to that it seems to be my book which just came out which is called useless organs it’s

[00:06:29] now on Amazon although they don’t have any copies yet because it just came out but anyways this book basically I show

[00:06:36] that indeed all the claims every single claim of a vestigial organ by the science

[00:06:41] literature is not true they all have a function even some of those organs like the vomer bone organ which they said had

[00:06:50] no function now we just in the past few years discovered that the vomeronasal bone indeed does have a function it’s by

[00:06:57] the vomer bone that’s why they call it that but anyways why recently titled the books were from a hundred to none and

[00:07:04] the publisher thought you know it’s kind of a long title let’s simplify it so they titled it basically useless organs

[00:07:10] and the book basically is from a hundred useless organs to none now if you follow

[00:07:16] the literature there is no viable claim of a useless organ they all have functions and my conclusion came from

[00:07:23] the scientific peer-reviewed scientific literature they all have a very important function or at least an

[00:07:29] important function so give us some examples of a couple of these that that are common that our listeners would be

[00:07:35] able to maybe use in their discussions with somebody well one of the most common is the good old appendix and the

[00:07:41] appendix has been called vestigial for decades and it’s still on websites called vestigial well now we know the

[00:07:47] appendix has not one function with five different functions and one of the most important functions discovered recently

[00:07:53] is it’s a safe house for bacteria when you take antibiotics or have diarrhea you eliminate a lot of the important

[00:08:00] bacteria well the bacteria in the appendix in that safe house is protected and therefore it can be released after

[00:08:07] diarrhea or use of antibiotics and as a result it repopulate the intestinal

[00:08:13] tract and you get back to where you need to be in a few three hours and therefore

[00:08:18] this is has an important function because now we realize that a critical aspect of Health is the commensal

[00:08:25] bacteria in your gut and they need to be there and if they’re not you have some problems and so this replaces it very

[00:08:31] rapidly and it’s a rather ingenious design a way of dealing with the problem which through for a long time didn’t

[00:08:38] believe was a problem but now we understand it is as we learn more about the body Wow okay so so as you know

[00:08:46] scientists are becoming aware that hey that the appendix has a use I believe the coccyx was another one is that right

[00:08:51] right yeah that’s another one that’s part of the tail they call the tailbone which really is a

[00:08:57] bone which helps support your internal organs it’s a attachment for muscles and

[00:09:04] tendons and ligaments etc so it has a number of functions and the main one is

[00:09:10] support so if somebody says to you well that’s a leftover organ of you know

[00:09:15] that’s our leftover tail what would you say to somebody who said that well I’d say that there’s there’s no relationship

[00:09:21] with the tail there is not the same design as the tail it’s not in the same place as a tail and indeed it has very

[00:09:28] different and important functions that tails to not have so you can’t wiggle it there’s no muscle is connected to it to

[00:09:35] allow the coccyx itself to wiggle as there would be in a tail so it’s a very

[00:09:40] different design for a very important reason okay so another one that I hear

[00:09:46] frequently people bring up as they’ll bring up things like wisdom teeth or tonsils and they’ll say hey we don’t

[00:09:53] need these anymore we can live without these you’ll hear people say this frequently we can live without these therefore they’re vestigial they’re left

[00:10:00] over from our evolutionary past if you if you’re interested in hearing the answers to these questions stay with me

[00:10:07] this is dr. Jerry Bergman we’re coming up on a break here and he is an expert in demonstrating that Darwinian

[00:10:14] evolution is false he’s been doing this for a very long time he has over 800 publications in 12 languages and has

[00:10:21] taught all kinds of classes both hard sciences and what we would typically call the social sciences and has a lot

[00:10:28] of experience here so stay with us we’re going to be right back and continue to get answers from dr. Jerry Bergman

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[00:12:44] thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover and if you’re concerned about your children having a strong faith

[00:12:50] please check out my website educate for life gorg we’ve got over 40 online classes there that cover everything you

[00:12:57] can imagine all the different questions that people have in a skeptical society our culture is more skeptical than ever

[00:13:03] before and people want to know answers to the questions who put the Bible together how do they select what books

[00:13:08] go in the Bible how do we know the Bible hasn’t been changed what about creation and evolution what about all the different religions in the

[00:13:14] world there’s a lot of questions that kids are having to deal with as they meet their peers in school or on their

[00:13:20] sports teams or relatives and we’re coming up on the holidays here with Thanksgiving and Christmas and this is

[00:13:25] when a lot of people you know get into these sorts of discussions and it’s a great opportunity to use that resource

[00:13:31] my website check it out and hopefully it’s encouraging to you today my guest

[00:13:36] is dr. Jerry Bergman and he is an expert in biology genetics biochemistry he’s

[00:13:42] been doing this for a very long time over 25 years and dr. Bergman when we

[00:13:48] left off I was asking you you know you’ll hear people say wisdom teeth are an example of a vestige organ that’s why

[00:13:54] we can pull them out you know we don’t need them they’re crowding out our teeth they might talk about tonsils and how so

[00:13:59] many people have their tonsils taken out what would you say to somebody who says hey we can live without these therefore

[00:14:05] their residual well we can live without a lot of organisms that doesn’t mean they’re useless we can live without a

[00:14:11] spleen or at least some people can we can live without one kidney some you know people can of course in fact kidney

[00:14:17] becomes damaged then you have a problem you need the other kidney but because we can live without it doesn’t in any way

[00:14:23] prove it’s vestigial or has no use and a good example is a wisdom teeth when

[00:14:28] people say well what do they do well look like all other teeth they chew food and their arms what happened yeah and

[00:14:35] they also are a support structure now the reason we have problems with wisdom teeth is primarily because our jaw is smaller than it used to be in the past

[00:14:41] partially because we don’t choose of course food that we used to in the past so when you have a coarser diet and

[00:14:47] healthier diet you generally have a larger jaw and therefore you can keep all of your wisdom teeth without a

[00:14:52] problem but now in our days most you don’t even have to chew it’s very soft tender and therefore teeth are less

[00:15:00] used now than they used to be and therefore sometimes you get impaction with the wisdom teeth which can be a

[00:15:06] problem occasionally you for other reasons of course you have a small jaw which could be inherited so you have a

[00:15:11] problem with impaction but nowadays they try to keep if they can try to keep the wisdom teeth in fact they call one

[00:15:19] technique prophylactic removal and now they realize that that is not a very good idea twelve of issac removal is

[00:15:26] where let’s take them out when you’re young and tell they so you don’t have to worry about taking them out when you’re older so they take them out in

[00:15:32] preparation for the eventualities that they may become impacted but that now we

[00:15:37] know is very foolish in fact they’re some excellent articles in the dental journals which say that that was a huge

[00:15:43] mistake you need to keep them in there if there’s a problem do what you can to save them if you can’t save them well

[00:15:49] they may have to come out but on the other hand we find we can save a large number of wisdom teeth without the

[00:15:55] problems that we anticipate they they would have and we now find out they

[00:16:00] don’t so prophylactic removal is not a very good idea at all okay so so they’re

[00:16:07] not vestigial and you know we use them but on the other hand if somebody said

[00:16:12] to you well dr. Bergman isn’t that evidence of evolution that over time because we’re not chewing these more

[00:16:19] coarse foods our jaws are becoming smaller and that right there is the process of evolution taking place on a

[00:16:25] small scale how would you respond to somebody who said something like that well if it’s evolution it’s not

[00:16:32] progressive evolution it’s D evolution and so yeah I think because the atoms

[00:16:37] fall we do I think have evidence of degenerative evolution but that’s not what Darwin is need they need

[00:16:43] progressive evolution but that’s what we see is part of the creation fall and

[00:16:48] therefore yeah you do see degenerative evolution but that’s not what we’re looking at when we look at Darwinism

[00:16:55] we’re not getting better we’re getting worse is what you’re saying right and that’s well recognized in the medical

[00:17:00] community because I taught at a medical school for a while I have three degrees from medical school and focus was

[00:17:06] degeneration and how we use medicine to overcome that degeneration so that was a part of

[00:17:12] the curriculum that we understand that we are not getting better we’re getting worse and therefore as in the medical

[00:17:17] field we need to respond to that by medicine by surgery by other techniques so that’s well recognized in the medical

[00:17:24] field in fact there’s about 5,000 different mutations that cause disease that we’re fully aware of we’re now

[00:17:30] aware of any mutation that causes a clear benefit we have some they’re iffy but on the other hand mutations which is

[00:17:37] the source of genetic variety that evolution of stress that is not a way of producing better things it produces

[00:17:44] things that aren t generally degenerative now that that’s so interesting to me because my daughter has cystic fibrosis and when we when we

[00:17:53] got out of the hospital after the baby was born they asked us to meet with a geneticist and she started explaining

[00:18:00] all these mutations to me and I said to her I said to her what good mutations are there you know knowing what I a

[00:18:06] little bit of what I know and she sat for a minute and then she said to me you know I can’t really think of any she

[00:18:11] said but I’m sure they’re there because that’s how we evolved and and so I thought it was so ironic that she had

[00:18:18] never really even thought about it and here she’s a geneticist but she had never put that you know put those things

[00:18:26] together and drawn the conclusion that hey maybe evolution is false yeah she said more in her answers I think than

[00:18:32] she expected to yeah yeah exactly I went on and I asked her I said so if there was somebody that had no mutations

[00:18:38] in their body would they be very very healthy or very very unhealthy and she

[00:18:44] said well I’ve never had that question asked to me before she said but I think they would probably be very very healthy and again I just thought wow that’s

[00:18:51] amazing here we are you know having this discussion and coming to these conclusions when you go out and you talk

[00:18:57] to people about this sort of information dr. Bergman you know secular scientists those who

[00:19:03] don’t believe in the Bible how do they respond to you do you see people

[00:19:08] shifting towards creation believing in an intelligent designer and a creator oh yeah once they have more knowledge

[00:19:16] but like your geneticist she had a superficial knowledge and therefore she assumed that the source of evolution is

[00:19:22] mutation – which of course widely believed but once she has more knowledge which he did in studying genetics she realized that there are no

[00:19:29] examples of clear beneficial mutations now there are some beneficial mutations but they’re not evidence of progression

[00:19:36] there evidence of degeneration which I could go and explain that it would be kind of hard to German yeah yeah very

[00:19:43] technical so so dr. Bergman you know

[00:19:48] some people I’m sure they listen to these sorts of conversations and they think to themselves yeah but does this

[00:19:54] really have any real-world consequences you know this is a debate that people have but you’ve recently written a book

[00:19:59] on the impact of Darwinism on society on culture can you touch on that a little

[00:20:07] bit what what real-world impact does it have when somebody believes in evolution

[00:20:12] and Darwinian ISM versus you know Christianity and God well they’re quite

[00:20:18] a bit of impact that can spend three hours on this easily but I’ll give you what I think is one of the best examples

[00:20:24] is and that is world war ii was a war against creation and evolution and

[00:20:29] fortunately creation won and that’s why we are where we are today in america if

[00:20:35] evolution won about half of us probably wouldn’t be here and the rest of us would be speaking German

[00:20:41] and therefore critically that issue was important now when I bring that out people you know very good question that

[00:20:47] they say how could that be true well that’s why written the book on Eisenhower which is on Amazon and all

[00:20:53] the websites and so on and I basically in that hundred and eighty page book I didn’t document indeed how that was true

[00:21:01] and Eisenhower was very clear about where he came from he believed we were all created by God we are all equal

[00:21:06] we’re all descendants of Adam and Eve and therefore the the evolutionary worldview of the in this case the Nazi

[00:21:14] worldview that were not all equal that some races are better than others is wrong and that was a major motivation

[00:21:20] that Eisenhower used in fighting the war in fact he often said he hates war as

[00:21:26] one who has seen it hates it no one could hate more war more than I do

[00:21:31] but he said I hate the Nazis and what they’re doing even more and therefore he was supreme

[00:21:37] allied commander during World War two and it was his work and ingenious decisions that basically allowed us to

[00:21:44] win world war two and therefore we’re talking about creation against evolution creation won wow that’s that’s really

[00:21:52] powerful so I’m looking at the book on Amazon right now if you’re listening

[00:21:57] this is dr. Jerry Bergman who’s on the program with me today and he has written

[00:22:02] numerous books either proving evolution wrong or answering specific questions about evolution he’s written this book

[00:22:09] here about God in Eisenhower’s life and how his belief in God impacted his view

[00:22:15] towards the Nazis and towards Hitler and these sorts of things you can check these all out on Amazon and we’re going

[00:22:22] to be coming right back and I want to talk about also a couple other things I want to touch again dr. Bergman on how

[00:22:29] you see Darwinian evolution impacting our culture today here in our society

[00:22:34] today but also you you wrote a book arguing that CS Lewis was not a theistic

[00:22:41] evolutionist as is popularly thought but actually was an advocate for creation

[00:22:46] and when we come back we’ll continue to this discussion with dr. Jerry Bergman and and so we’ll be right back stay with

[00:22:54] us [Music]

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[00:25:06] hey thanks for being with us today I hope you’ve enjoyed the program so far I think dr. Bergman has a wealth of

[00:25:13] information you can go to Amazon or a variety of other bookseller websites to

[00:25:18] get his books he has a ton of books that will help educate you and your kids and your family about how to respond to a

[00:25:26] lot of the issues that are popping up and did today he’s answering real-world questions that are applicable to your

[00:25:31] life today and are things that come up in discussions and I think it’s really interesting dr. Bergman you said that

[00:25:38] that you’re writing a book I think you’re currently working on a book with 60 people who actually came to the Lord

[00:25:47] through the study of science is that right right yeah that’s that’s amazing

[00:25:52] and I think you know a lot of people will say what is the point of apologetics why is it important but

[00:25:58] because a lot of people say hey you know you have to lead people to Jesus and not

[00:26:03] get argumentative with people or divisive with people how would you respond to somebody or how would you

[00:26:08] emphasize the significance and importance of apologetics and apologetics as it relates to things like

[00:26:15] science and so forth to somebody who is not convinced of that well it’s not hard

[00:26:21] to convince people of the importance of apologetics because we see the henries of the church today we see that the

[00:26:27] largest growing religion in this country is the atheist and what they call the nuns that means no religion as up to 20%

[00:26:34] now used to be two or three percent now it’s up to twenty percent and one main reason that these people accept this

[00:26:40] worldview is because they are convinced that indeed God didn’t create us that we evolved through natural selection of

[00:26:47] mutations and therefore what point is there in believing in God there’s no reason he’s God of a job and when you

[00:26:54] look though at the evidence you find that indeed he’s and God’s not out of a job in fact as time goes on we learn

[00:27:00] more about the world around us God has an even greater job than we thought before and therefore this helps us

[00:27:07] understand as the scriptures say of course the heavens declare the glory of God and his stresses we’re without

[00:27:12] excuse and when you study the natural world the in depth talking about you see that that is

[00:27:17] indeed true and so many even Christians about 80 percent during a recent Gallup poll eighty percent of all Christians

[00:27:24] are some form of creationism except this worldview but unfortunately many their

[00:27:31] knowledge is superficial and as a result when they go to college so many become

[00:27:36] evolutionists in fact when I taught at the several colleges my colleagues often

[00:27:41] said that we should be 12 we as professors should be trying to make the students as much unalike as their

[00:27:48] parents as possible and parents know this that kids come home from the college and they’re different person

[00:27:54] unfortunately in many cases and so therefore a helping them understand

[00:27:59] these issues before they go to college is critical or sending them to a Christian college would be one way of

[00:28:05] dealing with this problem but a lot of kids tell no I’ve got strong faith no problem I go to college and I’ll resist

[00:28:11] their indoctrination but all too often it’s hard to resist the indoctrination and professors because most are very

[00:28:18] intelligent people most can articulate their worldview quite well and if you hear the same thing in class after class

[00:28:24] after class you’re going to accept the idea that indeed God didn’t create us but we’ve all from as they say from the

[00:28:30] GU to you by way of the zoo and that doesn’t sound very scientific but that basically is a scientific explanation of

[00:28:37] working with came from from the GU to you by way of the do that’s great now

[00:28:43] you uh you recently also wrote a book in 2017 evolutions blunders frauds and

[00:28:49] forgeries and you right here it says National Geographic recently proclaimed

[00:28:55] a hybrid fossil as an ideal intermediate between birds and dinosaurs and they’re

[00:29:01] forced retraction of this glued together monstrosity was barely noticeable disturbingly secular work is is

[00:29:10] especially in the life sciences there we are in a grip in the grip of an unprecedented epidemic of scientific

[00:29:17] fraud so what’s going on here because I actually subscribe to a website it’s a

[00:29:24] it’s not a Christian website it’s called retraction watch in which they identify science

[00:29:29] civic fraud in you know out there out and about and the journals and so forth and you’re saying we’re experiencing an

[00:29:36] epidemic proportion of this oh yeah we are and that’s an excellent website by the way although there’s thousands of

[00:29:43] examples so you get varied Sharlee even try to read the excerpts on there but anyways that’s there’s several reasons

[00:29:49] for that is one is more and more professors they don’t get paid by the university directly they survive their

[00:29:55] job by getting grants to get a grant you have to have some evidence your research is turning out and so when you’re close

[00:30:02] let’s say I’m you know a couple of points away from a good study compared to a failure study you know you just

[00:30:08] forged a couple of points and I’ll get the money next year and I’m continuing to do research and I can support my family I don’t worry about moving and so

[00:30:14] on so there’s strong motivations in our society to cheat slightly to get the

[00:30:19] money and of course especially towards evolution because scientists are concerned about proving evolution and hey it just been the factual bits and

[00:30:27] here you go you got proof of evolution now some of this bending is not deliberate it’s because they see the

[00:30:32] world they want to see and therefore they have what they call evolutionary glasses on and these glasses distort

[00:30:38] reality but nonetheless for whatever reason there is a lot of distortion of science and as a result science hurts in

[00:30:46] fact one thing I stress what the work I’m doing is is science is critically important and we must be honest etc and

[00:30:53] we must not bend it to prove our theory like evolution and in doing that we’re we’re affecting adversely science as

[00:31:01] well because people are starting to doubt science as well they’re starting to you know not put their trust in it I

[00:31:07] noticed even some of the fraud that was committed on the retraction watch website had to do with cancer research

[00:31:14] which is devastating to people who are you know their lives are literally hanging in the balance and then they

[00:31:21] find out this you know stuff is fraudulent which illustrates my point that this hurts science evolution hurts

[00:31:28] science as few other theories has hurt science and global warming is another problem where there’s of course concerns

[00:31:34] but on the other hand they’re all too often greatly exaggerated like this congresswoman who says well we got 12

[00:31:40] years left and the world’s going to end or some that’s right yeah and that hurts science it really hurt

[00:31:45] science and it hurts people are concerned about science because science is the doorway to God and therefore we

[00:31:52] we need to be a credible society helping people understand science to lead them

[00:31:59] to the Creator and this unfortunately hurts not just us Christians but it also hurts the scientific community now it’s

[00:32:06] interesting you know I was talking to another fellow not too long ago who said that he sees a rise in the theistic

[00:32:12] evolution the idea that God used evolution and you wrote a book

[00:32:18] specifically on CS Lewis saying that he was not a theistic evolutionist can you

[00:32:23] share with our listeners a little bit about your motivations behind writing that and what you found well I found in looking and studying

[00:32:30] Louis that he was not only not a theistic evolutionist but he was a militant anti garland Christian and he

[00:32:38] realized that he’s not a scientist he debated scientists at student once actually and he lost he he realized that to be

[00:32:46] credible I cannot debate something I don’t know a great deal about so therefore he criticized and attacked

[00:32:52] evolution but not by science he therefore criticized it through his stories through his literature through

[00:32:57] his trilogies through his writing his writing even poetry was very effective in showing indeed that evolution cannot

[00:33:04] be true and so he was effective but a lot of people assume because he never really attacked evolution by science

[00:33:11] they assumed incorrectly that he was a theistic evolutionist and in no way was he and that’s how I was able to get I

[00:33:17] what a 200 page book he’s showing indeed eloquently that he was not a theistic evolutionist and

[00:33:23] indeed he was a very strong creationist but again he stayed out of the the science area he he looked at other areas

[00:33:30] especially through his literature through his trilogies and so it’s there I mean he’s very clear in what he said

[00:33:36] in fact even when he even before he came a Christian he talked about the harm

[00:33:41] that Darwinism has done and he indeed very clear throughout his life and the

[00:33:47] concerns in this area but unfortunately so many people Christians believe that he was a theistic evolutionist because

[00:33:53] they are and they want an excuse to accept the theistic evolution and they say well CS Lewis was a theory

[00:34:00] evolution so I must be okay yeah but indeed if they understood him they would realize that he was not a

[00:34:06] theistic evolution so if you want to check that out you can check it out on Amazon dr. Jerry Bergman just type his

[00:34:13] name into Amazon be e RG ma N and all kinds of books are going to come up that

[00:34:19] will help you to get a better understanding of science and God and so forth and dr. Bergman you know something

[00:34:26] we haven’t touched on really is your background you have a background in the social sciences you have been involved

[00:34:33] in count your professional counselor also I don’t know how you have time for

[00:34:38] all these things but but it’s fantastic and maybe we should do a show on time

[00:34:44] management sometime with you I think that that would be a very productive show fine yeah so but when we come back

[00:34:51] we have one more segment left I’m gonna talk to dr. Bergman specifically about why he is motivated in the social

[00:34:59] sciences as well as the hard sciences and then also talk a little bit more

[00:35:04] about some of the most powerful arguments that that debunk evolution and

[00:35:11] ultimately why he chose to become a Christian in college and left atheism

[00:35:16] behind so stay with us we’re gonna be right back where was dr. Jerry Bergman

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[00:37:20] [Music]

[00:37:32] thanks for being with us today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover and we are airing down here in

[00:37:37] Southern California in San Diego we’re on Cape Rays 12 10:00 a.m. as well as FM 96.1 in North County and we’re also all

[00:37:46] over YouTube we’re all on Facebook everywhere so you can check out all kinds of shows we’ve got a great show

[00:37:52] coming up next week we’ve got a brief interview with Bethany Hamilton she was

[00:37:58] the pro surfer who lost her arm to a shark but didn’t give up and is still a pro surfer surfing huge waves she

[00:38:06] recently came out with her second move movie and so we’ll have a chance to talk to her and we’ve got all kinds of

[00:38:12] interviews up with amazing people doing amazing things also have an interview online with dr. James tor who also

[00:38:19] proves that evolution is impossible he’s an organic synthetic chemist and our guest today is also incredibly well

[00:38:27] credentialed a scientist you can check out all his credentials online at logos

[00:38:33] Research Associates and other sites but dr. Bergman you you became a Christian

[00:38:40] in college what was the point at which you finally decided you know what evolution is false

[00:38:46] atheism is false and you turned your life over to God what what happened well I didn’t have a Pauline conversion on

[00:38:53] the way to Damascus but what happened with me is like the water in front of a dam builds up higher and higher and

[00:38:59] higher and finally it gets to a point where it overflows and that would be what we call the born-again experience

[00:39:04] my only you come to a point where you realize that the evidence is overwhelming and therefore you give your

[00:39:10] life to Christ and follow the Christian Way how did your parents respond to you

[00:39:15] when you decided to become a Christian your father being an atheist well he wasn’t too happy at all of course he he

[00:39:23] wasn’t happy at all he was the second humanist and very involved in the democratic party and very involved in

[00:39:29] pushing ideology that indeed is contrary to the Christian ideology and so but you

[00:39:35] know we got along pretty well I just learned not to argue with him and just talked about other things we had a lot

[00:39:40] in common we had a lot of concerns about e-collar the environment and so on and so you know those were things we had in common

[00:39:45] and he all may get through college I work for a company that he owned and that’s what the way I paid my way

[00:39:51] through college so I work one day a week and there’s able to go to colleagues and get my actually my online degrees I’m

[00:39:58] nine degrees and first three degrees it took me nine years I started out with a

[00:40:05] entering college and worked at college until I graduated my doctoral degree

[00:40:10] nine years later gotcha and then now your degrees your your background in

[00:40:16] counseling why did you pursue both you know the social sciences as well as the hard

[00:40:21] sciences what was going on there and your in your mind in your heart well I’ve always had a lot of interest in

[00:40:28] many areas and even today I still have interests in many other areas because if you study biochemistry all day and you

[00:40:34] know after a while you get kind of bored that’s funny you need to get into something else so I have a quite an

[00:40:41] interest in history I had a minor in history and I did for my doctoral degree I had more hours in psychology than I

[00:40:47] did in measurement which was the major area that I got the degree in and I went on as you mentioned I went on and worked

[00:40:54] for psychologists under under dr. Busey actually and he trained me and I had

[00:41:00] three years experience and that was necessary the clinical experience was necessary to get licensed and became

[00:41:06] licensed and I worked as a clinician and Islands had psychological associates and I worked for so long but after you’ve

[00:41:14] seen a ninth paranoia patient and then in the main the main problem I worked

[00:41:20] with for people who are depressed mostly women and the major problem in their lives was not surprisingly their men’s

[00:41:26] or their husbands their boyfriends or their father etc so after a while he get

[00:41:31] burned out because you only work with so many different types of clients and I

[00:41:37] just want to go on and do other things yeah and so I went on and did other things although I taught psychology and

[00:41:43] my clinical experience was invaluable because in class I was able to relate the experiences I had and the people I

[00:41:50] worked with and how I helped him and so on and they find that of course very rewarding relative to the core

[00:41:55] and I taught normal psychic in general psychic and other side courses so that was very helpful psychology there’s two

[00:42:02] branches really a psychology there’s a theoretical the guesstimate type and then there’s also the empirical type

[00:42:08] where you do research and I was interested in the empirical type where you work with doing evaluations using

[00:42:15] MRI and so on but these part of my background with psychology and then so

[00:42:20] that any young people that’s one of my interest that’s really interesting to me because this gives you a perspective

[00:42:26] that a lot of people probably wouldn’t be able to have in actually assessing how what you believe impacts you know

[00:42:34] your life on an individual basis and then on a larger basis also so you wrote

[00:42:40] this book specifically about how how Darwinian evolution impacts Society do you think that your background there was

[00:42:47] able to give you a deeper insight into into that fact oh yeah because the by a

[00:42:53] biological area specifically Darwinism in this case does affect how you believe things like abortion and it may surprise

[00:43:00] people to know but when the US Supreme Court ruled on abortion is basically utilized an idea developed by Ernst

[00:43:07] Haeckel called ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny which basically says in the womb we literally go through our

[00:43:14] evolutionary stages so we start out in the early stage as goo and then we end up efficient and we go through the stage

[00:43:21] of the revolution that we suppose they went through and we’re evolving a long time ago and they convinced to some

[00:43:27] degree of this I think probably is highly convinced the US Supreme Court that indeed when abortion occurred we

[00:43:34] were at that state fish and therefore you’re not aborting a human you’re aborting the fish Wow that was widely

[00:43:40] accepted for many years I have never heard that before that’s incredible you

[00:43:45] know what’s interesting to me about that is it just last year and I teach at a Christian high school I had a student

[00:43:51] bring to me their ap bio textbook and they showed me in the textbook where it

[00:43:57] has a human embryo and it has arrows pointing to the folds in the neck of the

[00:44:04] embryo and it says gill slits and it’s to me this this was debunked wasn’t this

[00:44:12] a lot in the 1800s I believe wasn’t that the case we at was debunked the century ago but recently it came to the

[00:44:17] attention of the public because dr. Richardson did a study where he photographed actually what those embryos

[00:44:24] look like at the stages that HECO had drawings for them and he showed that Haeckel’s drawings were way way off-base

[00:44:30] it’s not just exaggeration but he drew pictures that were so wrong that you

[00:44:35] would know there’s there something wrong and they call this a forgery and so now that’s widely known in fact many of the

[00:44:40] textbooks not all but many the textbooks have taken out this ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny of ernst haeckel

[00:44:47] of the book and therefore it’s more widely recognized that that’s not a good argument I think if this the abortion

[00:44:54] case came before the supreme court again I have a strong feeling that indeed they would rule the opposite that they ruled

[00:45:01] 25 30 years ago and therefore abortion would have much more difficult time

[00:45:07] getting through because we have more science we have sonograms for example and you can see though at those certain

[00:45:13] stages you can see what the baby looks like and that has revolutionized their home view of life in the embryo and

[00:45:19] today if it was before the Supreme Court I have a feeling as many people are very very worried about that left us I’m very

[00:45:26] worried that indeed it would be overturned I think there’s a good chance it would be overturned or at least part of the abortion law would you’ll return

[00:45:33] so that states could outlaw abortion or discourage it in some way if they wanted

[00:45:39] to so as we become more scientifically literate we gravitate towards the

[00:45:44] Christian towards a biblical worldview yeah that’s true so you know I that’s

[00:45:50] that’s a powerful argument because this is it brings to mind Darwin himself was

[00:45:56] dependent upon paleontology revealing more missing links and we haven’t seen

[00:46:02] that take place either right exactly yeah we haven’t and and then this was

[00:46:07] also had something to do with the simple cell in the sense that they used to think it was simple but now we recognize

[00:46:12] it’s far too complex in order to be something that could have happened by

[00:46:18] accident or through random natural processes that’s true the cell is widely

[00:46:25] recognized is the most complex machine in the entire universe and so and the basis of life of course is the cell and

[00:46:32] you have to have a cell to get life going and evolution is recognize that you’re not going to evolve a cell by

[00:46:39] mutations and natural selection etc and so therefore many a leading evolutionists say that life came from

[00:46:45] some other place exhaled biogenesis they call that and therefore it came from ours or came from somewhere else the

[00:46:52] problem is it doesn’t solve the problem it just puts it somewhere else so how did it evolve on Mars or somewhere else

[00:46:58] well they can’t explain they have the same problem so it doesn’t solve the problem it just moves it somewhere else gotcha

[00:47:04] dr. Bergman we are just about out of time here I just really want to thank you so much for coming on the program you’ve been a huge blessing it’s great

[00:47:12] to be on absolutely you know if you’re listening today you know one of the things I hear you know when you’re

[00:47:17] talking to a relative or you’re talking to somebody they always want to hear the credentials of the person you’re

[00:47:23] referencing and it’s always nice when you have somebody like dr. Jerry Bergman who has so many credentials it would

[00:47:29] take hours to read them all and you can just push this aside that that he’s not

[00:47:34] an expert in biology or he’s not an expert in genetics or he’s not an expert in whatever it is because dr. Bergman is

[00:47:41] pretty much an expert in everything so take advantage of his life experience in his education please check him out

[00:47:48] you can get all his books on Amazon just type dr. Jerry Bergman in there and dr.

[00:47:53] Bergman you’re available for speaking engagements also oh yeah I just was out in California a week ago and I will be

[00:48:00] out there chillin fantastic so if you’re listening and you’re a pastor or you’re

[00:48:06] a parishioner who wants to share with your pastor an awesome scientist who

[00:48:11] loves God and who can really clearly articulate the truth and that science

[00:48:16] actually validates the biblical worldview please take a to look up dr.

[00:48:22] Jerry Bergman thanks again dr. Bergman and for those of you listening we’ll be

[00:48:27] back again next week we’re going to be actually streaming Bethany Hamilton live you can check us out on Facebook or

[00:48:33] YouTube or periscope all the different social media outlets we’ll also be airing that interview

[00:48:39] later that week and so you can you can get all that information that you need thanks for being with us I hope you have

[00:48:45] a fantastic weekend and god bless you did you miss part of today’s program

[00:48:50] don’t worry we’re con mitad to helping you get the info you need okay that was dumb but for real

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