Reaching Muslims – Dr. David Wood

[00:00:00] then call 802 four three nine seven nineteen and now here’s your host Kevin

[00:00:06] Conover bring your time welcome to educate Flex radio I’m your host Kevin Conover my websites educate

[00:00:12] for life.org and I just want to wish you a Merry Christmas if you’re listening here today checking in with us and we’re

[00:00:20] in Southern California right now I’m broadcasting on Cape Rays 12:10 a.m. down here also FM 106.1 in North County

[00:00:27] we’re also on YouTube and we have a fantastic program today we’re talking with somebody who has four hundred and

[00:00:36] six thousand subscribers on YouTube he has over 93 million views he earned a doctorate in philosophy in the

[00:00:42] philosophy of religion from Fordham University and something really interesting while studying at Old

[00:00:47] Dominion University he was challenged to convert to Islam by his roommate Nabeel

[00:00:52] Qureshi now if you don’t know who Nabeel Qureshi is he he actually passed away

[00:00:57] not too long ago in 2017 very sad I had the privilege of meeting him before he

[00:01:04] passed away I was actually graduating with a master’s degree in apologetics from Biola University and I was having

[00:01:10] lunch with him in the back and I had no idea that he was going to announce what he was struggling with what he was going

[00:01:17] through with cancer and he was a speaker with Ravi Zacharias International Ministries and he was also the author of

[00:01:24] a book seeking Allah finding Jesus and our guest today David wood was his

[00:01:29] roommate and actually is credited with over time converting him to Christianity

[00:01:35] causing him to decide to become a Christian and I just want to thank you

[00:01:40] David for being on the program today get ready so David can we start there

[00:01:47] with this discussion a lot of our guests don’t know a lot about what happened there but can you pick us up with the

[00:01:53] story how did you meet Nabil and ultimately how were you able to convince him that Christianity was true

[00:02:00] well yes I’ll Nabil and I met on a school trip we had both joined the

[00:02:07] Speech and Debate team where you you know you go to other schools and debate

[00:02:13] or give presentations or something like this and be judged on them competitively

[00:02:18] and we end up on one trip the first time we met we ended up sharing a hotel room

[00:02:27] as we went to another school and that

[00:02:32] first night I was uh I was reading my I was reading the book of Isaiah I was

[00:02:39] reading through the Bible in a year and as I was reading I noticed this guy

[00:02:44] looking at me so I noticed Nabil sort of kept looking over at me reading the Bible and uh you know I knew his name is

[00:02:52] Nabeel Qureshi so I didn’t know I didn’t know you know that’s a Muslim name but I

[00:02:59] didn’t know you know like look liberal Muslim are just completely secular oh

[00:03:04] yeah good even he could even be an atheist he could be something else or is he devout but I saw him that he was

[00:03:11] putting away his prayer rugs so thinking okay he was devout enough to bring a prayer rug gonna on a school trip so but

[00:03:18] yeah then I was actually praying and I said you know hey God I don’t want to be

[00:03:26] accused by people of being mean to a Muslim if I start you know if I start talking to him and asking him about his

[00:03:33] religion or something like that so if you want me to talk to this guy we’re here for a reason could you just let him

[00:03:39] start the conversation and it was right after that Nabil said so are you a hardcore Christian that’s correct I said

[00:03:49] yes I am and and yet we started our discussions that weekend for the first several hours I basically I basically

[00:03:56] just let him talk himself to death I normally do that up and get into discussions with people and I’m trying to you know figure out what they believe

[00:04:02] and and why they believe what they believe but you know I’ll just keep saying okay yeah so what do you believe

[00:04:08] about this what do you believe about that what do you believe about Jesus what do you believe about the Quran what do you believe about the Bible what do you believe about God

[00:04:14] and over time I’ll eventually transition into you know some questions like why do

[00:04:20] you believe that and I just kind of do this by nature I’m it you know I’m interested what people believe and why they believe it after the bill had

[00:04:27] really broken down a lot of a lot of pretty much everything he he believed in

[00:04:34] all his reasons he could think of her believing it I said I said all right I got one more question if you’re wrong do

[00:04:41] you want to know it and they gave an interesting answer he paused for a while and then he said he said yes and though

[00:04:48] he said yes I would want to know the truth about God but no it would destroy my family well and those are those are

[00:04:56] the kind of that was like a dual the dual loyalty of Nabeel for the next

[00:05:02] several years as we’re discussing Christianity and Islam is you could tell he always had this he always had this

[00:05:08] passion for pursuing the truth and for sitting down and if we had to argue if

[00:05:14] we had to spend ten hours straight and go all night long arguing a point so that we could we

[00:05:19] could uh you know get closer to a correct answer then then he would do that but at the same time you spoke

[00:05:24] clearly clearly clearly petrified of what would happen if he converted to

[00:05:30] Islam and his and his you know his parents had to go through that because I mean that was one of the one of the

[00:05:37] closest families I’d ever seen in my life was wasn’t a deal with his pen that matter of fact that first trip we went

[00:05:42] off you know we went off wheel off to another school we came back and his mom

[00:05:48] picked him up at the airport and she sat there on the airplane in the airport parking lot hugging him for like

[00:05:55] ten minutes because he’d been gone for like three days and so very very close family who’s always very very scared of

[00:06:02] what would happen is he converted to Christianity but um but the the pursuit

[00:06:10] for truth side of him actually won out and yeah after several years he he

[00:06:16] became a Christian so what happened then with his family how did they respond to that did everything fall apart like he

[00:06:21] anticipated well I can say that things turned out better is his

[00:06:28] Emily than what I’ve seen with lots of other Muslim families unless I see there

[00:06:35] have been a couple instances where you have a Muslim family that really just doesn’t care about Islam that much they

[00:06:40] bent they become very secular and I’ve seen a couple instances like that where

[00:06:46] someone converts to Christianity and they’re not and they don’t have much of a problem with it but in any Muslim

[00:06:52] family where they take Islam seriously the basic reactions are either well I

[00:06:58] mean it can be pick it actually be dangerous in in a Muslim country in certain parts of the world it could

[00:07:04] actually be dangerous because it can be come back or you know we’re going to do something to you yeah but here here in

[00:07:11] the West it’s usually one of it’s usually one of two things it’s usually either the family just completely

[00:07:18] separate some person says hey we don’t want to see you again until you’re you’re Muslim again so don’t come don’t

[00:07:23] come around here for the the family will start trying to win the person back to

[00:07:30] Islam and that’s what that’s what wheels dead is dad started taking him around to

[00:07:36] various Muslim scholars even like in other countries and stuff like that taking him to Muslim scholars who were

[00:07:42] supposed to show him that he was wrong for converting to Christianity and so on and that didn’t go very well for them

[00:07:49] because Nabil would start it would start arguing with him about Islam as well so

[00:07:55] you take him dad would take them to a scholar and the bill would go in there and say okay here are all my reasons why

[00:08:02] I no longer believe in Mohammed let’s go through these one at a time and see if you can answer them and they really

[00:08:07] weren’t terribly interested in having those conversations there’s a lot of a lot of the things that we would bring up

[00:08:13] when looking at Islam there just aren’t very good answers for so yeah I think it was about a year his dad was trying to

[00:08:20] bring him to very various places to try to convert him back to his LOM and after

[00:08:26] that the the relationship was very strange there’s lots of arguing his

[00:08:32] family was devastated they eventually moved from where they were because they were so they were so embarrassed by

[00:08:39] their son converting and it in Islam it’s and this was this is pretty common as well in Islam that they

[00:08:47] can’t they can’t get their minds around the idea of someone actually looking at the evidence and concluding that Islam

[00:08:53] is false and that something else is true especially Christianity so they they

[00:08:59] always tend to attribute it to some ulterior motive like if you were converting oats because you were paid by

[00:09:06] someone to convert you converted because of you know you wanted this non-muslim

[00:09:11] girl or something like that they have to attribute it to something like that so but at the same time if you’re the

[00:09:18] parents there are other Muslims who will look at you and think how did you raise

[00:09:23] such a bad child that he left this lump until it’s very sad situation for them

[00:09:30] they actually moved and again there would be lots of lots of arguing but on

[00:09:36] the plus and the plus side that it turned out better than with most most families and that they did continue

[00:09:43] having a relationship the bill did continue visiting with them and especially when he he had a daughter got

[00:09:50] married and had a daughter exactly when the bill had a daughter the grandkids

[00:09:56] always tend to tell people smooth things over sometimes yeah now I know he wrote

[00:10:01] a book seeking Allah finding Jesus and now sadly he’s passed away but but uh

[00:10:08] he’s in heaven but what aware is his family today has have any of them turned to Christ or are

[00:10:14] they still pursuing or you know following Islam

[00:10:19] yeah there’s still yeah they’re still there still Muslims unfortunately they have fortunately they have they have all

[00:10:26] of nabeel’s books for when they want to uh take a look at these but the other they’re

[00:10:33] still they’re still pretty devastated not just over their son converting but

[00:10:39] over him not returning to Islam and then yeah and then dying because they they

[00:10:46] believed that they believed and they had you know like dreams that were confirming to them that their son was

[00:10:53] going to come back out of that he was going to come back out of Christianity

[00:10:59] and return to Islam and that you know he was going to be this great light for Islam and stuff and refuting

[00:11:05] Christianity and they actually believed that they had like confirmation of this

[00:11:10] through their dreams and so on and just didn’t work that so yeah okay well my

[00:11:17] that for if you’re listening today my guest today is David Wood and honestly I don’t know if there is a more

[00:11:23] knowledgeable person on Islam and who has engaged in discussions arguing about

[00:11:30] Islam more than David Wood if you’re interested in checking his stuff out acts 17 apologetics he has numerous

[00:11:36] videos that will help you better understand Islam and the problems within Islam you can check that out acts 17

[00:11:42] apologetics stay with us we’re gonna have a very interesting discussion you’re gonna have a quick break and we’ll be right back

[00:11:48] [Music]

[00:12:05] hi this is Jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one lending I just want to take this

[00:12:11] opportunity to think Kevin Kahn over for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as

[00:12:17] being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important

[00:12:23] it is to be defenders of our faith is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show

[00:12:29] and through his educate for life teachings Thank You Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans if you need to buy an

[00:12:39] affordable reliable used car truck or even an enclosed trailer call Conover tires wheels and service in Oceanside

[00:12:45] for tires and car repairs you can trust call Dan Conover and his team at seven six zero four three nine sixteen thirty

[00:12:51] one honesty integrity and quality service their ASC BBB and Napa certified

[00:12:56] and they’re proud supporters of educate for life learn more at Conover tires calm check out their great reviews 7 6

[00:13:02] over 3 9 16 31 how can you live in San Diego and miss out on enjoying the water

[00:13:09] fast lane kayaking sells popular Hobie Cat kayaks that you pedal not paddle

[00:13:14] that means your hands are left free for fishing and fun they’re light and they’re easy to use and maintain just

[00:13:20] rinse them off try one free on a demo ride for 36 years Ron and Debbie Lane have served San Diego with fun

[00:13:27] family-friendly watersports of all kinds learn more fast lane sailing calm six

[00:13:32] one nine two two two zero seven sixty-six

[00:13:48] [Music]

[00:13:55] welcome back to educate for life this is your host Kevin Conover we’re here in Southern California my web sites educate

[00:14:01] for life.org we’re often a Christmas special here on my website it’s an apologetics website it’s meant

[00:14:07] specifically to help young people be prepared to be able to answer all the skeptical questions that are coming

[00:14:12] their way and that that has everything to do with things like creation and evolution how do we know the bible is actually inspired by God how can I trust

[00:14:19] the Bible when it has miracles in it what about all the other religions in the world and that’s what we’re talking about today my my guest today is David

[00:14:25] Wood acts 17 apologetics he’s been doing this for a long time he has an incredible testimony of how he met

[00:14:31] Christ coming from an atheist background but when we left off last break we were

[00:14:36] talking about how he actually is responsible for really leading Nabeel Qureshi to the Lord and what I wanted to

[00:14:44] ask you about David was you know when you’re going around do you see a lot of Muslims coming to Christ through your

[00:14:53] efforts and through the efforts of other apologists who are reaching out to Muslims sometimes it seems very you know

[00:15:00] some people they’re they’re afraid to argue they’re afraid to be argumentative they see it as a bad thing or they might

[00:15:06] see it as unloving how would you respond to somebody who said hey I don’t want to be abrasive and I want to be more you

[00:15:12] know kind kind in the way I talk to people do you ever get that kind of

[00:15:18] feedback from people that you’re too abrasive oh yeah I get that all the time

[00:15:23] and I hear from matter of fact that is a here’s a funny story I hear from from

[00:15:30] Christian all the time that I’m I’m too harsh with with Muslims I shouldn’t be

[00:15:36] criticizing Mohammed or the Koran because that’s what that’s just going to drive them away and stuff like that and

[00:15:41] it’s total nonsense I criticize Mohammed and look around all the time and Muslims can’t stay away right deiay they’re

[00:15:47] actually drawn they’re actually drawn to a more confrontational approach so you kind of approach I use has just been

[00:15:53] based on personal interactions with Muslims and you know what gets their attention things like that but uh anyway

[00:15:59] couple years ago the Christians sent me a message and said hey you need to a new

[00:16:04] you you you have great content but the way you present it is you know going to shillings and so you shouldn’t do it

[00:16:10] that way and you need to be more like Jesus and I feel like what do you mean I need you you need to be more like you know once you scribes and Pharisees you

[00:16:17] hypocrites you whitewashed tombs again I’m not going to talk I’m not going to talk to Muslims like that man so don’t

[00:16:22] tell me to talk like that and he goes no no no he’s Lord he can talk to people like that but you know you should be

[00:16:27] like more like you know the Apostles and I said wait you mean more like the Apostle Paul who said two elements the

[00:16:32] sorcerer you you enemy of righteousness you son of the devil because I’m not going to talk to people like that man he

[00:16:38] said uh he said well it’s just the fact that that people will listen to a nicer approach then they’ll listen to you know

[00:16:44] someone who was really being critical and and I said I said well it’s just been my I’ve had the total opposite

[00:16:51] experience with Muslims but you’re welcome to to do things the way you’re saying that they should that I should do

[00:16:57] them in and to show me that it’s actually a better more effective way and so we just kept going back and forth and

[00:17:03] I can’t disagree whether I’m just saying look I mean look there’s a there’s a reason I’m meeting so many Muslim to her

[00:17:09] we’re leaving Islam they actually do pay more attention if you’re just blunt and you just tell them no that’s wrong and

[00:17:15] so on and so finally the guy says look there’s a book called seeking Allah finding Jesus it’s not a it’s about a

[00:17:23] Muslim who had a Christian friend who just spent years loving him and spending time with them and you need to read that

[00:17:29] book and try to be more like that Christian really but you know that me

[00:17:35] right that’s a yes he finished the argument for you that’s

[00:17:41] amazing yeah okay like yeah what are the odds that out of all the people in the

[00:17:47] world you could have told me to be like to be more effective you tell me to be more like me that’s tender yeah you know

[00:17:53] let me say yeah I get I get it a lot but it’s just and keep in mind I’m not telling people to go out there and like

[00:17:59] be harsh with Muslims or something like that there are ways you can bring up very

[00:18:05] sensitive information with Muslim my point is there’s information about the Quran and about Muhammad and about all

[00:18:12] these issues that they aren’t getting from their leaders their leaders keep a lot of the a lot of the the actual facts

[00:18:20] from them and they fill their heads with lots of knot that’s right like almost every Muslim scholar will tell Muslims

[00:18:26] oh the Quran been perfectly preserved right down to the letter that’s absolute ridiculous nonsense from the Muslim

[00:18:32] sources I’m not saying like my perspective I’m saying the Muslim sources talk about entire chapters of the Quran coming up missing and large

[00:18:38] passages coming up missing verses being eaten by a sheep that aren’t in the Quran anymore because the Sheep ate the

[00:18:43] only copy those are the things you find in the Muslim sources and yet what some leaders is telling Muslims perfect

[00:18:49] preservation right down to the letter so the point is they’re not getting certain information about Islam that they would

[00:18:54] need to be able to form you know an important informed opinion they’re not getting that from their leader so they

[00:18:59] kind of have to give it get it from us and it’s going to be it’s going to you know some of these some of these things

[00:19:06] are going to hurt their feelings yeah no matter how you do it yeah you can do it you can’t you can’t get this

[00:19:11] you get this information across yeah it’s really interesting to me that’s another question I had for you which is you know now that we have the internet

[00:19:18] and everything there is such a vast amount of information out there and I was going to ask you do you think that

[00:19:23] this is helping more and more Muslims come to the truth because of the fact that there’s so much more exposure now

[00:19:30] for that information that was potentially hidden before because like you said their leadership wasn’t

[00:19:36] exposing them to that information but now it’s almost unavoidable in a sense for anybody who takes the time to look

[00:19:42] things up oh yeah well one of the earliest art so even before I was on

[00:19:47] YouTube when I was just uh when I was just writing articles for website one of the first articles ever wrote was was

[00:19:53] how the Internet is going to allow a lot of information to destroy a lot of

[00:20:00] people’s confidence that they have in Islam because that’s the confidence that’s based on sort of false

[00:20:06] information like like when you hear a the Quran contains all these scientific miracles and Muhammad’s greatest men who

[00:20:12] ever lived you hear this all your life it sounds sounds very plausible it sounds almost insane tonight if you’ve

[00:20:17] been if you been taught this all your life but once you start learning the facts which you know as time goes on

[00:20:23] becomes you Muslims get more and more access to them becomes very hard to hold

[00:20:28] to those positions and basically the situation we’re in is for for 1400 years Muslim leaders could keep the Muslim

[00:20:35] population insulate right if someone started going around criticizing Islam he was going to

[00:20:41] get his head chopped off so it wasn’t going to last very long and if someone came from a different a different land like a Christian came to an area with

[00:20:48] the gospel and things like that well they could they could stop you know they could stop that Christian they could chop his head up so they were able to

[00:20:54] keep people insulated from hearing lots of things but now you had tons of Muslims who come to the West and so

[00:21:01] they’re in a position where they can hear they can hear a serious presentation of an alternative because

[00:21:06] it’s not just that it’s not just that their information about Islam was

[00:21:12] concealed from them it’s that they’ll make sure that no one ever hears a serious presentation of some alternative

[00:21:18] to Islam like Christianity but but tons of Muslims have come to the west and they’re in a position where they can

[00:21:24] hear an alternative an alternative to Islam so they can hear the gospel and they can hear things about Islam that

[00:21:30] they would have never heard in other parts of the world but at the same time yes through the internet basically I

[00:21:36] mean it looks um in Saudi Arabia Muslims in Pakistan Muslims in all kinds of

[00:21:42] countries now have access to information that they haven’t had access to for for 14 centuries and so it’s actually you

[00:21:50] know as bad as things can be in certain parts of the world this is actually an awesome awesome time this is the

[00:21:55] greatest time in history if you have if you have a heart for reaching Muslims with the gospel 14th centuries worth of

[00:22:02] Christians who’ve been interested in talking the Muslims couldn’t have dreamed of the opportunity that we have

[00:22:07] right now that’s awesome so you know some people would say you know I I talk

[00:22:14] to a lot of atheists and you actually have an atheist background for those of you listening if you haven’t seen David

[00:22:20] woods testimony online it’s pretty incredible why I am a Christian you can check it out on his website acts 17

[00:22:27] apologetics but you know I’ve had people say this they’ve said well Christianity

[00:22:32] is being exposed in the sense that now we’re able to put all this information on the internet that other people

[00:22:38] weren’t you know the same thing you just said about Islam they’re saying about Christianity and now we’re able to prove Christianity wrong and we’re able to get

[00:22:43] the word out there and there’s an increase in nuns and agnosticism in America and so forth

[00:22:49] and so on how would you respond to somebody who said something like that well you know the having something like

[00:22:56] the Internet does help help basically critics of any position it

[00:23:02] allows you to get information out much more quickly but if not it’s not going

[00:23:09] to have the same kind of impact on on Christianity for a couple reasons one Christians had already been you know had

[00:23:16] a long experience with their views being criticized right Muslims and Muslim land

[00:23:22] did not have a lot of experience with hearing challenges to their beliefs

[00:23:28] because it would be illegal it would be considered blasphemous to two challenges long whereas whereas in the West I mean

[00:23:36] we we are we already had apologist and we already had people dealing with with

[00:23:41] criticisms now what the Internet has done is allow people to sort of ramp up their their attacks but basically

[00:23:47] Christians had already been dealing with these kinds of things but but to we the reason it’s not going to be the same

[00:23:53] with Christianity is all across the board with the Muslim arguments the

[00:23:59] arguments that are used to show that Islam is true as soon as you start examining them you find out that they’re

[00:24:05] just you’re grounded and just complete myth right like we idea well one of the

[00:24:12] first things you’ll hear from a Muslim is other Quran been perfectly preserved and this is a miracle again if that’s not that’s not sure according to the

[00:24:18] manuscript tradition that’s not true according to their own sources you can go through any other any other main sources and you find all kinds of

[00:24:24] information about changes to the grunt the point is the the argument is based on absolute nothing that’s based on

[00:24:32] deception which is completely false and that’s what you find when you go through the arguments that are used to prop up

[00:24:38] Islam is there they only work in an atmosphere of

[00:24:43] ignorant as soon as people are actually able to study study the evidence the

[00:24:49] argument just falls to pieces whereas in Christianity we’re kind of in a different category I’m saying to David

[00:24:57] we’re coming up on a break here so I want to but I want to preface our next segment here for those of you listening

[00:25:02] so David Wood was an atheist he became a Christian and now he reaches Muslims for Christ so

[00:25:08] when we get back what we’re gonna talk about is why does he say that Christianity is true it has the evidence for the truth but Islam does not and a

[00:25:15] compare and contrast here why he left atheism became a Christian and which of course would mean that atheism is not

[00:25:21] credible either so stay with us we’re gonna be right back and I think this is a great Christmas show because Christmas

[00:25:27] is all about Jesus Christ and the truth of Jesus Christ and that he can actually save you and you can have eternal life

[00:25:33] and be with reconnected with God in heaven so stay with us we’re gonna be right back

[00:25:38] [Music]

[00:25:55] save money by taking good care of your car call Conover tires wheels and service

[00:26:01] and Oceanside locally owned and operated since 1991 with all the brands you trust see their great customer reviews and

[00:26:07] special offers at Conover tires calm Dan and his team are proud to support educate for life with Kevin Conover they

[00:26:14] even sell affordable reliable used cars and enclosed trailers Connor retires to 4:05 oceanside boulevard seven six zero

[00:26:21] four three nine sixteen thirty one educate for life helps you build your

[00:26:26] life on the rock LG equipment helps builders build on good soil luke Gibson’s team at LG equipment is your

[00:26:32] local source for grading demolition hauling and more learn about their bulk water services from trucks to tankers to

[00:26:39] towers at rent water tower comm get your questions answered call LG equipment at

[00:26:44] six one nine nine eight eight zero nine two four learn more at LG equipment comm

[00:26:50] six one nine nine eight eight zero nine two four life insurance is like a parachute if

[00:26:56] you don’t have it when you need it it’s too late when your family faces a challenge you don’t want to face

[00:27:01] liability because you’re uninsured or underinsured decades of sandy Aegon’s have trusted Jim Kelly of Kelly

[00:27:07] insurance agency and Allstate to insure homes cars businesses and lives no

[00:27:12] matter where they live throughout California your family’s needs are always changing call to schedule a

[00:27:17] checkup today call Jim Kelly and his team right now six one nine five six two

[00:27:23] ninety one ninety nine

[00:27:37] [Music] hey thanks for listening to us today

[00:27:44] this is Kevin Conover we’re on educate for life we’re down here in Southern California cape raised 1210 AM FM 106.1 in North

[00:27:50] County and you can also listen to all the different shows on YouTube too I just interviewed last week Jay Warner

[00:27:56] Wallace homicide detective who became a Christian at the age of 35 and he wrote a book called cold case Christianity

[00:28:03] absolutely incredible testimony and evidence for the truth of Christ today we’re talking with David Wood and David

[00:28:09] Wood as an expert on Islam he he kind of in a sense fell into this but David when

[00:28:15] we left off last segment what we were talking about was the fact that you left atheism to become a Christian and if you

[00:28:23] if you don’t know who David Wood is he has a wild testimony David you you almost killed your father and then ended up in prison is that

[00:28:31] correct yeah couple jailed couple prisons couple mental hospitals and then

[00:28:38] you ultimately became a Christian and it made sense and then your Christianity in

[00:28:44] a sense went through a kind of a trial by fire in the sense that you were arguing with you know this Muslim about

[00:28:53] what which was true and you this forced you into a position of looking at the evidence for the truth of Christianity

[00:28:58] versus that the truth of Islam what made you decide that Christianity was more

[00:29:04] valid than say atheism or any other particular worldview because a lot of

[00:29:09] atheists say hey Christianity has just as many problems as Islam does as far as its credibility or the Bible versus the

[00:29:15] Quran these sorts of things you know I mean generally anyone anyone

[00:29:20] who says that Christianity and Islam are in the same boat with regards to

[00:29:26] evidence I don’t think as it has examined the evidence even if I were even if I were an atheist if you’re an

[00:29:33] atheist and you are familiar with the evidence you’d have to be able to you have to be able to see okay when

[00:29:40] Christians talk about the resurrection their case for that is based on a number

[00:29:46] of facts which are which are agreed upon by even even non-christian scholars even

[00:29:52] atheists and agnostics scholars and so they actually have a case that they are

[00:29:57] making and basically the Atheist position is I mean as far as atheists

[00:30:03] who actually deal with like the evidence for the resurrection it’s usually yeah they have a bunch of facts here but I

[00:30:10] just can’t accept a supernatural explanation of these facts so I’m going

[00:30:15] to go with a natural explanation even if it doesn’t fit the facts very well it’s better than a supernatural explanation

[00:30:21] so but with Islam you find out that is that the arguments are just based on

[00:30:26] complete fabrication it’s a it’s a series and I’ve been dealing I’ve been dealing with with arguments first law on

[00:30:32] for years but there’s nothing in Islam that that passes any sorts of standards

[00:30:39] as as something for for a good argument so it you know I mentioned the the case

[00:30:45] for the kirino the perfect preservation of the Quran well even if the crown had been perfectly preserved that wouldn’t

[00:30:50] that wouldn’t mean that it’s a miracle just mean that it was well preserved but you find out that it hasn’t or the claim

[00:30:56] that the Quran is filled with scientific miracles as soon as you start looking into them you find out the Quran to a

[00:31:02] scientific disaster so those arguments all fall apart whereas the more you look at the resurrection the more you find

[00:31:08] out gosh this is there’s actually good evidence here so basically the the

[00:31:13] evidence this is why because is why I became a Christian that we know for a fact how Jesus died at the at the

[00:31:20] scholarly level is considered indisputable people like even critics of Christianity like Bart Ehrman and the

[00:31:26] Jesus Seminar various atheists agnostics and so on

[00:31:32] they’ll say that it’s one of they’ll say that Jesus death by crucifixion is one of the best established facts of ancient

[00:31:37] history and so that’s that’s not the spirit of Jesus death they’ll disagree

[00:31:44] with his resurrection but they’ll even grant don’t even grant the number of facts which we use to build our case for

[00:31:50] the resurrection so dollars of crunked both scholars across the board regardless of their perspective whether

[00:31:56] they’re Jewish scholars atheist scholars agnostic scholars they grant across the

[00:32:01] board that Jesus disciples were convinced that he had appeared to them on a number of occasions and that risk

[00:32:09] this belief that they have that their Jesus was appearing to them is what gave rise to their confidence that he had

[00:32:15] risen from the dead and so they grant that of the fact and they have to grant that as a fact because we have so many

[00:32:21] we have we have so much information on the claims of the first century Christians and on their willingness to

[00:32:26] die for them that the basic position among scholars is yes we know they know they believe that they were there ready

[00:32:32] to go to their horrible bloody deaths over this and so they had to believe that what they were saying about him

[00:32:38] appearing to them they can’t acknowledge that so they might try to explain it with hallucinations or something like

[00:32:43] that but notice they’re granting Jesus death and that his disciples sincerely

[00:32:50] believed that he had appeared to them on numerous occasions they’ll come up with some naturalistic explanation even

[00:32:57] though they don’t work like hallucinations you can’t say you know that entire group on numerous occasions both friends and foe because we’re not

[00:33:04] just talking about yeah his original de sucked also talking about like the Apostle Paul and his brother James was a skeptic

[00:33:09] they’ll have to say you know everyone was experiencing the mass these same

[00:33:15] mass hallucination and it’s just really really strange to believe that but they’ll conclude that that’s better than a supernatural explanation but if you

[00:33:21] don’t have that if you if you if you’re willing to keep a supernatural explanation on the table basically the

[00:33:29] side the side favoring the resurrection if you’re weighing evidence on a scale basically falls to the floor so it the

[00:33:36] the difference in Christianity Islam is that the more you study the evidence for Christianity the the stronger you

[00:33:41] realize it is you of course can can uh can talk a lot on the internet and deny that at

[00:33:48] the end of the day the evidence is really there okay so I’ve got two questions for you after what this

[00:33:54] explanation he gave so that my first question is this so for the atheist out there or the person that’s leaning towards atheism or agnosticism you know

[00:34:01] you can’t really know for sure and they’re saying well you know I actually had an atheist say this to me once they said he said specifically the reason I

[00:34:08] don’t believe in the Bible is because of the miracles in the Bible that’s why I don’t believe it because we don’t see

[00:34:13] these things happening today and so you coming from an atheist background what makes you decide that it’s more likely

[00:34:19] that God is real therefore these things could actually happen a supernatural explanation could happen what makes you

[00:34:26] lean in that direction rather than saying now you know these are unlikely supernatural phenomena because we don’t

[00:34:32] see them happening today what makes you think that theism is more credible than atheism in your mind well yeah so

[00:34:39] they’re kind of two issues there one there’s there’s the point that that you brought up namely that if you’re ruling

[00:34:45] out miracles yes obviously if the world you know if if there were no God and

[00:34:51] there was nothing supernatural then a miraculous explanation would be off the table but if you have good reasons to

[00:34:59] believe in a supernatural creator of the universe then that makes miracles much

[00:35:06] more plausible and then the question would be okay well God could do miracles if you wanted but yeah did you and so

[00:35:13] what what for you is the compelling reason that you believe in the supernatural well I mean the resurrection would be

[00:35:20] one of it but I agree with basically a lot of the traditional arguments that

[00:35:26] you know we know that the universe had a beginning and so if the universe begins to exist then it would have to have a

[00:35:33] cause of its existence otherwise you’d have to say that universes come into existence uncaused all right so if you

[00:35:40] can say the universe had the you know was brought into existence then you have to start thinking what sort of thing

[00:35:45] would this have to be that brings a universe into existence would have to be powerful enough to bring something out

[00:35:51] of nothing wouldn’t couldn’t be material because the material universe is what gets

[00:35:56] brought into existence it has to be material and you start going down the list and the more the more you start

[00:36:01] trying to assess what what the creator of the universe would have to be like the more it starts sounding like God so

[00:36:08] you have that you have the fine-tuning of the universe mainly you know the laws of Knittle one there didn’t have to be

[00:36:14] any laws of nature but but two they didn’t have to be the sorts of laws that permit human life in fact the idea that

[00:36:21] all of these features of the universe are what’s going finely-tuned for for

[00:36:26] life you just wouldn’t get a universe like that statistically you’re not getting a universe like that if it’s

[00:36:32] just forming at random so anyway you have all kinds of things the moral argument basically there has to be a ground of the moral order in the

[00:36:40] universe laws of logic the you know laws of logic you don’t find them with us you know you don’t find them with a microscope or telescope don’t find them

[00:36:46] in a science lab or something like that they’re if they’re conceptual but concepts exist in the mind and get everything is sort of everything has to

[00:36:55] go along with them and so they’re kind of omnipotent in the sense well now you have basically laws of thinking and

[00:37:02] moral laws and mathematical truths and so on that they’re all true independent

[00:37:07] of what humans believe if you know there were no humans these things would still be true yeah and yet they’re there

[00:37:13] they’re abstract and conceptual meaning they only exist in a mind they don’t exist in like a rock or something like

[00:37:18] that they exist in a mind and so there is a reality out there that is uh that

[00:37:24] is uh that’s not just physical and material and yet encompasses um

[00:37:30] encompasses all these abstract concepts yeah creates the world thing and so yeah it really

[00:37:35] starts dealing it really starts looking more and more like God but then if you want to get into specific Reza but has this God revealed

[00:37:42] himself to us in any in any personal way then you start looking at history and something like the resurrection so

[00:37:47] that’s one issue but the other the other issue I can say this very quickly atheists are simply wrong when they

[00:37:54] think oh you know things like that don’t happen they’re just looking at statistic Pew Research did did a study a few years

[00:38:01] back and they looked at just one denomination of Christianity in 10 countries around the world so they’re

[00:38:09] just talking about 10 countries that they that they actually did a study of Poland and they were already in the

[00:38:15] hundreds of millions of people who believed that they had witnessed eight personally witnessed a miracle so the

[00:38:22] idea is if they were already in the hundreds of millions of people who believed they’d witnessed a miracle just

[00:38:29] looking at one denomination of Christianity in just 10 countries you can probably extrapolate that there were

[00:38:35] probably well over a billion people in the world who believe they’ve witnessed a miracle so atheists are kind of

[00:38:42] similar to Muslims there where they’ve heard all their lives you know this just doesn’t happen the way Muslims heard all

[00:38:49] his life the Quran been perfectly preserved but it they really should before you start making claims like no

[00:38:55] miracles occur miracles are off the table you should at least probably spend I’m guessing you should at least spend

[00:39:01] five minutes studying issue but they they just don’t and so yeah so anyway

[00:39:06] there are all kinds of there all kinds of problems with the with the rejection of miracles the guys you founded yeah I

[00:39:14] mean but a lot of these have really looked at the evidence okay so we’re wrapping up our third segment here when we come back my my

[00:39:21] second question I have here for David has to do with what is it about Muhammad’s life maybe the top one two or

[00:39:28] three things that actually undermine the credibility of Islam or of Muhammad as a

[00:39:34] prophet of God so stay with us we’re going to compare and contrast Jesus Christ his claim of divinity as the Son

[00:39:40] of God with Mohammed his claim to be the prophet of God with us be right back

[00:39:50] [Music]

[00:40:00] Luke Gibson of LG equipment supports educate for life with Kevin Conover Luke

[00:40:06] grew up in the construction industry and now serves LG’s commercial and residential customers throughout

[00:40:11] Southern California whether you need grading paving hauling demolition on-site bulk water service

[00:40:17] water trucks tankers and towers call LG equipment at six one nine nine nine

[00:40:22] eight zero nine two four learn more at LG equipment comm six one nine nine nine

[00:40:28] eight zero nine two four hi this is jason hall president of team home loans a branch of synergy one

[00:40:35] lending i just want to take this opportunity to think kevin Conover for the profound impact he’s had on mine and

[00:40:41] my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and

[00:40:46] passion have taught us all how important it is to be defenders of our faith is our sincere hope and prayer that you

[00:40:51] will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for life

[00:40:56] teachings thank you Kevin from the hall family and team home loans life insurance is like a parachute if you

[00:41:03] don’t have it when you need it it’s too late when your family faces a challenge you don’t want to face liability because

[00:41:09] you’re uninsured or underinsured decades of sandy Aegon’s have trusted Jim Kelly of Kelly insurance agency and Allstate

[00:41:16] to ensure homes cars businesses and lives no matter where they live throughout California your family’s

[00:41:22] needs are always changing call to schedule a check-up today call Jim Kelly and his team right now six one nine five

[00:41:29] six two ninety one ninety nine

[00:41:44] [Music] thanks for being with us today this is

[00:41:51] educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my web sites educate for life.org you can join or subscribe to

[00:41:57] our website we have a full comprehensive apologetics curriculum covers everything you can possibly imagine all the way

[00:42:02] from creation and evolution issues up to how do we know the Bible is actually God’s Word you know what about slavery

[00:42:09] in the Old Testament what about all the different world religions what about Buddhism and Mormonism and Islam and all

[00:42:14] these different things and then we also cover all the cultural issues if you’re a parent or you yourself just have a lot

[00:42:21] of questions it’s a great resource to be able to comprehensively look at these issues and get answers to the hard

[00:42:27] questions that people ask our culture is becoming increasingly skeptical my guest today is David Wood he’s on the cutting

[00:42:32] edge of apologetics he specifically has ministers to Muslims and helps people

[00:42:38] reach out to Muslims his ministries acts 17 apologetics he has numerous videos on

[00:42:44] YouTube that you can check out with all kinds of valuable information I’ve watched a lot of them and they are

[00:42:50] incredibly insightful and deep they get down to a lot of the issues that you don’t typically think about when you’re

[00:42:56] you’re thinking about Islam so I wanted to ask you David a couple questions here

[00:43:01] as we’re wrapping up a lot of young people are being exposed to ideas in

[00:43:09] public education and everything that make it sound like hey Islam is just as credible as Christianity it’s just

[00:43:16] whatever you choose it’s you know these sorts of things and you know I’m concerned about the upcoming generations

[00:43:21] and what they’re having to deal with do you have any advice for parents as it pertains to issues like Islam and

[00:43:28] worldview and you being a parent yourself I think you have five kids is

[00:43:33] that right yeah how do you how do you encourage parents to deal with all the

[00:43:40] ideas that are in public education that are coming their way with like for example the Council on american-islamic relations here in San

[00:43:46] Diego they’re now working with the San Diego City Schools to make kids more aware of Islam things like this

[00:43:54] yeah well I mean if it’s a if it’s a Christian parents who want to to sort of

[00:44:01] challenge that in in certain ways then it’s very it’s very easy to equip even

[00:44:07] even a kid to ask questions in a in a non-threatening in a non-threatening

[00:44:13] manner so basically if they’re doing lessons in it in school very easy for if

[00:44:20] the child is willing and the the child is doesn’t want to be indoctrinated a

[00:44:25] very easy to equip the child with some basic information as a kid go in there and say hey you you said this about it

[00:44:33] slum but I went ahead and looked at the Quran I would I would be interested in how you explain these verses given what

[00:44:41] you just said and bring up some of the verses and you know the child doesn’t have to be attacking in that way but

[00:44:48] they’re easier to raise a bunch of questions which will then cause a lot of doubt about what’s being claimed and

[00:44:54] basically uh it’s pretty easy to bring up information that way okay so and notice it’s it’s sort of the same thing

[00:45:01] if parents raised a challenge when the challenge goes before the school board or something like that and the you know

[00:45:08] care is there and stuff like that and it’s pretty easy to say oh you’re saying this about about Islam but here’s what

[00:45:16] here’s what I found in your sources I wonder if you could explain this yeah yeah I’ve had that experience myself I

[00:45:22] actually a friend in high school who she challenged me to read the Quran and the first part of the first scripture in the

[00:45:31] Quran I read was where it says you can tap your wife or you can you can hit your wife with a stick and I knew

[00:45:38] nothing about Islam and I showed it to her and she was like what I can’t believe this is in here and I guess she went to our Father and he and and their

[00:45:45] their Muslim pastor said that it meant to tap her lightly with a twig yeah yeah

[00:45:53] unfortunately that I notice that that’s that’s the other problem Muslims will will say things in response

[00:45:59] in defense of these verses but it’s not actually what the pastor saying a few if

[00:46:05] you know the sources that doesn’t actually work so what’s Garron actual says it if you fear some sort of

[00:46:10] rebellion or something like that from your wife then you warn her and ban her

[00:46:16] to a separate bed and then you can beat her so you beat her until she submits you and that yet the response the simple

[00:46:23] the responses are yeah this just refers to you know tapping her with a toothbrush or something like that and

[00:46:29] the problem is we know from the Muslim sources that’s not that’s not what it refers to we have we have records and

[00:46:36] listen sources of women being beaten until their skin turned green by their husbands and this was considered

[00:46:42] perfectly acceptable because because the Quran allows it so they obviously if it

[00:46:48] if a woman is being beaten until her skin turned green she obviously is not just being tapped lightly with a

[00:46:54] toothbrush yeah and this is not uncommon practice in some middle-eastern countries either I mean this is

[00:46:59] something that happens on a regular basis oh yeah I mean the studies are

[00:47:04] clear of the of the various groups that go ahead and uh you know go out and compare the status of women in various

[00:47:12] countries and women’s rights and whether women are protected from abuse and things like that

[00:47:17] it’s it’ll always be like eleven of the twelve worst places to be a woman or 18

[00:47:24] of the 20 worst countries for women will be Islamic countries and it really goes back to how the teachings of Mohammed

[00:47:31] has has influenced Society now for the average layperson out there who’s not a Muslim apologist but they have Muslim

[00:47:38] co-workers and these sorts of things that they work with when we caught contrast the life of Christ with the

[00:47:44] life of Mohammed what is it what would you say they’re top one two or three things that undermine the qualifications

[00:47:51] for Muhammad as a prophet that that somebody listening today could grab hold of and and maybe share with a co-worker

[00:47:57] or something or ask a question that pertains to something like that yeah if you’re presenting this to a

[00:48:03] co-worker I would do it sort of in you know in the form of questions like hey you know I was looking at my Honda and I

[00:48:09] saw this I was wondering you know how do you explain this but basically a lot of the serious issues and certainly things

[00:48:16] that would set him apart from someone like Jesus one you if you read the history Bahamut you’re struck by the

[00:48:21] number of spiritual problems this guy had what I mean here is when he first started receiving revelations his

[00:48:27] interpretation of what happened to him was that they were his revelations were demonic he believed that he was

[00:48:32] demon-possessed and so he read out he ran out of his cave that he was uh that

[00:48:38] he was staying in concluded that he was demon-possessed and tried to hurl himself off a cliff repeatedly he

[00:48:45] eventually ran home to his wife Khadija and started shouting for her to cover

[00:48:51] him because he was terrified of whatever this whatever it was it was chasing him and it was Khadija and her cousin who

[00:48:58] weren’t there who had no idea what he encountered they were the ones who sat there and told him no you know you’re

[00:49:03] not possessed you’re your prophet of God these are revelations from God so his interpret his his impression of

[00:49:10] revelations was that they were demonic other people who weren’t there were the ones who convinced him that he’s a prophet so you have things like that you

[00:49:16] have a Mohammed delivered what are called The Satanic Verses is according to Islamic history mama delivered what are called The

[00:49:21] Satanic Verses promoting belief in three pagan goddesses and said that you could pray to them because they would carry

[00:49:27] her prayers to Allah many came back later and said no the devil tricked him into into delivering this revelation and

[00:49:33] so that will that you can grant that but then what what that means is that he

[00:49:39] couldn’t tell the difference in a revelation from God a revelation from the devil but this guy actually delivered a revelation and then blame

[00:49:45] the devil for that revelation then you have other things where we have we have sources on Muhammad claiming that he’s a

[00:49:51] victim of black magic a spell that gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs and so on so you have all these

[00:49:56] kinds of problems that you just you wouldn’t expect them from a prophet but you know he clearly clearly Jesus is in

[00:50:04] the different categories yeah those kinds of issues you have moral problems ma Muhammad had sex with a nine year old girl I mean he married a girl when she

[00:50:11] was six and then consummated the marriage when she was nine years old and even reached river dia he married

[00:50:17] the divorced wife of his own adopted son after causing the divorce because he was lusting after her adopted son found out

[00:50:23] about it so he divorced her so that muhammad canim he told his followers they could have up to four lives no more that’s a revelation in the Quran but

[00:50:30] then he got another another revelation saying that he could have even more so he had at least nine wives at one time

[00:50:35] but basically you had this never-ending array of moral problems where if we saw someone who had these problems we would

[00:50:41] not trust them Muhammad just has just has more than more sort of moral and

[00:50:46] spiritual problems than anyone I’ve ever met in my life so those would be two of the problems the third kind of ignorance Mohammed he really seems to think that

[00:50:53] that the the Bible agrees with him that the Torah agrees with him that the

[00:50:59] scriptures of the Christians agree with him then that Jesus agreed with him whereas if we actually go out and start

[00:51:05] studying the issue we find that the Bible definitely doesn’t line up with Islam and the teachings and Jesus don’t

[00:51:11] line up with Islam because according to Islam Jesus didn’t die on the cross he didn’t rise from the dead and he’s not Lord well I mean that’s sort of the

[00:51:17] foundation of the Bible so Muslims are forced to say well your Bibles been

[00:51:23] corrupted then unfortunately for them Muhammad didn’t just affirm that our Bibles inspired he also affirmed that

[00:51:30] that the Bible is has been perfectly preserved and that it’s still

[00:51:35] authoritative so even in it even in its present form even in the form that it was during his time which is the seventh

[00:51:41] century he was affirming the the authority of the Bible and yet we know

[00:51:46] what the Bible said in the 7th century we have copies of it from before then so you can’t simply say that the Bible has

[00:51:53] been corrupted without contradicting Muhammad and so the real problem here just seems to be this guy doesn’t know

[00:51:58] anything he’s talking about he’s talking about but he’s talking to people his listeners don’t know what he’s don’t

[00:52:03] know what he’s talking about either so they don’t learn that they don’t really have the ability to correct him but we

[00:52:10] do so now we can actually look at the revelations and saying wait a minute this guy clearly had no idea what he’s talking about he’s affirming the

[00:52:16] revelations of the Christians and Jews not realizing that the revelations of the Christians and Jews completely contradict his own revelations and

[00:52:22] therefore Islam just falls apart I mean if we have the Word of God then Islam is false because Islam contradicts

[00:52:28] contradicts our book but if we don’t have the Word of God Islam is still false because Islam affirms that our books the Word of God so no matter what

[00:52:35] the situation is Islam just falls apart so these are the kinds of problems you find with vomit that’s fantastic well

[00:52:42] we’re just about out of time here so David I just want to thank you so much for being on the program today it’s a

[00:52:47] huge blessing yeah beer absolutely David would acts 17

[00:52:52] apologetics please check out his stuff it’s absolutely incredible and you know if you have Muslim friends

[00:52:57] or neighbors if you have co-workers don’t be afraid to invite them to a Christmas celebration they may or may

[00:53:04] not come they might not come may not come to your church but you want to just start that conversation God loves all

[00:53:10] people he loves Muslims many Muslims are coming to Christ surprisingly the Quran actually talks about Jesus Christ a lot

[00:53:17] and so it’s a great opportunity this Christmas season to invite your Muslim

[00:53:25] friend or coworker to learn more about Jesus Christ and what the Bible has to say about him because like David said

[00:53:32] the Quran actually says good things about Jesus Christ it actually says he’s

[00:53:37] a prophet of God so take that opportunity don’t be afraid you’ll be amazed at what God can do when we take

[00:53:43] those steps of faith to reach out to the people around us and I hope you have a fantastic Friday and weekend and Merry

[00:53:48] Christmas we’ll be back again next week I believe with Greg cocoa so looking

[00:53:54] forward to talking to him – god bless you have a fantastic day did you miss part of today’s program don’t worry

[00:53:59] we’re con mitad to helping you get the info you need okay that was dumb but for

[00:54:04] real visit educate for life con for podcasts and video recordings of the show and to sign up for the school of

[00:54:10] unshakable faith leave us your comments compliments questions or concerns at 802

[00:54:16] 4397 19