How Would Jesus Respond to Racism – William Clay

[00:00:00] if you’re just tuning in glad you could be here today my name is Kevin Carver and I host a radio program down here in

[00:00:06] Southern California called educate for life it’s on Cape Rays which is the local Christian radio station down here

[00:00:12] in Southern Southern California and we’re having a lot of fun and you know there’s a lot of crazy

[00:00:18] stuff going on right now with what’s happening with the protests all over the country and with kovat and everything

[00:00:26] else in and so it’s nonstop non-stop just drama and action and all kinds of

[00:00:34] stuff and as Christians you know my job as a Christian I’m a Bible teacher at a local Christian high school is to make

[00:00:41] sense of this in light of the scriptures in light of the Word of God and to say what is really going on here and how do

[00:00:47] we best as Christians be salt and light to the world that’s our goal our goal is to be a reflection of Christ and we want

[00:00:53] to respond to the issues the way that Christ would respond to the issues and so that’s what we do and just a little

[00:01:00] plug for my website educate for life org it’s a full online curriculum for those of you who have shifted to online

[00:01:06] schooling that is all about a biblical worldview and answering all the tough questions people have about God in the

[00:01:11] Bible and one of the questions we’re going to talk about today is the issue of racism a lot of people get really uncomfortable when talking about this

[00:01:17] issue but it’s front and center right now I don’t think there’s a there’s not really a way to avoid it and so I when

[00:01:24] it comes to issues like this I like to just tack on head-on and say okay let’s have this discussion let’s be as loving

[00:01:29] as we possibly can let’s be honest and you know let’s just hear each other out and ultimately we we want the truth and

[00:01:37] my guest today is William clay and I call him clay he he’s an awesome guy and

[00:01:44] you know one of the biggest things about clay that struck me when I first met him because we actually started teaching at

[00:01:50] Christian high school at the same time was his smile he had a huge smile and you can’t help but start to feel

[00:01:57] comfortable around somebody who smiles like glass so so clay you’re the man but right now he’s also a full time math

[00:02:03] teacher he’s a professor at a college in what state are you in Myrtle Beach little Beach South Carolina

[00:02:10] Myrtle Beach okay and then you also are a coach you you coach basketball at Christian too and you’ve got your own video the dr

[00:02:18] skills Academy where you’re training up young people to be athletes but at the same time you’re instilling godly

[00:02:24] character in these students as well right yes yes absolutely that’s awesome so clay and I have been friends for a

[00:02:32] long time on on Facebook and we just struck up a conversation over these issues because you know I think it’s

[00:02:39] important to have honest dialogue back and forth about these and we’re dialoguing about hey how do we deal with

[00:02:44] these issues how do we deal with the issues that are popping up in the news the controversy just just two days ago

[00:02:50] another young black man was shot and tragically and people are upset about it

[00:02:57] and you know the and then you’re you’re watching all these videos of the police defending themselves at the same time

[00:03:03] and so we’re just another avenue to reflect and to talk about how do we move

[00:03:09] forward here so clay why don’t you share with us your perspective and some of the things and we have slightly different

[00:03:16] perspectives – I think probably we have a lot in common at the same time but

[00:03:21] this will be good for us to just chat and hear each other’s views so give us

[00:03:27] all your perspective and some of your background – you know how you became a Christian maybe some of the issues

[00:03:32] you’ve dealt with in your own life growing up and having to deal with people who are discriminating against

[00:03:38] you we’d love to hear your background and some of what you’ve gone through in your perspective yeah awesome awesome

[00:03:44] well first off Kevin I appreciate you for you know inviting me on I mean I think that’s awesome because um I think

[00:03:50] as Christians you know for those of us who love Christ I mean like the issue

[00:03:56] isn’t gonna be solved you know with policy or in the White House right we just be honest right like it has to

[00:04:02] start with us with the church you know Anna so I mean I think for us to be able to dialogue is awesome so I appreciate

[00:04:08] you for for coming on me and I know your heart and so for the Lord so so again thanks um absolutely just a little bit

[00:04:15] about first of all my faith walk man I went to Pensacola Christian Academy alright um so I know that back when I

[00:04:23] was there I know there were a number of different administrators at Christian who like graduated from the college yeah

[00:04:29] I went there from Cape I through eighth grade so big conservative Christian

[00:04:34] school um oh I actually have a nephew who’s like my son he goes there now actually so Becca book publication you

[00:04:42] know click on a standard beer for you know for Christian education for a long time so I grew up in that Lane in that

[00:04:49] space um but uh but I mean me and Ben just got saved early me I mean I don’t

[00:04:55] know my life without Jesus like I had you know my mom definitely exemplified that I had my mom and my dad but my dad

[00:05:02] later on in life but definitely had pastors and awesome men in Christ who

[00:05:07] you know until my dad really grew in his faith God just kind of you know put those men in supplant those men in my

[00:05:14] life and they exemplified godly character godly coaches even as a young man as a young Christian like having

[00:05:19] someone like coach Lowery coach star when I was at Christian high yeah I mean still to this day coach Lowery pours

[00:05:25] into me and um and so um so in terms of who I was in Christ man I had a lot of

[00:05:30] great God examples um and and and so from that aspect like but even when I

[00:05:37] was at Pensacola Christian I mean like space that I was probably one of maybe in blacks at in school right so you’re

[00:05:44] gonna be one black in in in a school you know in a class full of you know white counterparts that’s okay right you learn

[00:05:50] let me learn right and so but you know you you begin to hear certain things in

[00:05:56] when I was at home you know you know you go home and you understand that you know

[00:06:02] even in the history books the way certain things were written you know the way slavery was skipped over right like

[00:06:08] be early you begin to wonder okay like I’m hearing these things talked about outside of school or you know outside of

[00:06:14] class but you never hear them addressing class like for example like Tulsa riots in 1921 right black Wall Street be like

[00:06:21] that was never hurt like we never heard of that we you know that wasn’t why not you know and so even from a young age

[00:06:28] you begin to understand even though we we love Jesus and we you know we all worship you worship Christ together you

[00:06:35] begin to understand that wait a minute like my history and things that I’ve gone through you know on that

[00:06:41] historically you know people who look like me have gone through they’re different you know what I’m saying

[00:06:46] and so um so I think that that that early on was kind of that seat was

[00:06:52] planted that you know hey you know outside of the walls of the church a lot of times man you know the world sees us

[00:07:00] differently um and so I grew up with that and as I

[00:07:05] said even you know like I’m gonna say I was a I was a teacher at Christian as you said you know and and so you know I

[00:07:13] told you like even even in certain instances I had a student who you know and I told you that student who said hey

[00:07:19] I have something said to me that were out of line and I doubt you know absolutely yeah yeah

[00:07:24] I think I was just going to say you know in my classes I teach 12th grade and I

[00:07:29] do a unit on racism and I asked the students how many of you in here have experienced racism and there’s no doubt

[00:07:37] about it that every year different kids say I’ve experienced racism and there

[00:07:42] are black kids in the school who say hey this is what happened here at our Christian school yeah yeah you know and

[00:07:49] and you said you you when you were messaging me you were talking about you know how can we deal with these sorts of

[00:07:56] issues and as a Christian of course we’re on the same page racism is wrong the Bible is so clear about that that in

[00:08:04] axis says we’re all of one blood and it Paul says there is no tumor grief there

[00:08:10] is no slaver free there is no there there is no male or female I mean so he’s obviously dealing with these issues

[00:08:16] too these are these are issues that are happening with them where the Jews and the Greeks literally hated each other

[00:08:22] you know that a certain Jews too tested the Greece and the Gentiles and so so

[00:08:29] that’s a real issue so I guess what we’re dealing with here today too is is

[00:08:34] okay so one of the issues and I’ve I’ve interviewed Mason Weaver I don’t know if

[00:08:42] you know who he is he’s a former Black Panther and he wrote a book on this and he talks about his life experience in

[00:08:50] racism and how white dial was trying to kill him once mm-hmm and how he became very racist

[00:08:57] against whites himself and and very very interesting story he met Christ through a miracle just incredible story and and

[00:09:03] I had a black pastor on here in San Diego and one of the things that comes

[00:09:10] up a lot and this is the dialogue that that I’m interested to hear your perspective on clay which is that

[00:09:15] different people are saying there there are solutions to this right so I look at it this way if you go to a doctor and

[00:09:21] one doctor says your siddik and the problem is you know I don’t know what

[00:09:27] your your your intestines and then you go to another doctor and the doctor says no the problem is your part and you’ve

[00:09:34] got two different problems they both agree you’re sick but they’re saying you’ve got two different problems one of

[00:09:39] those doctors is going to provide you know the movement forward in healing whichever’s right and then the other one

[00:09:45] is potentially actually going to harm the situation or make it worse and so I I think the difficulty is that the

[00:09:52] diagnosis of the issue which is you know we’re dealing with slavery in the past

[00:09:57] and then we’re asking ourselves the struggles that black people are going through now certain black people are

[00:10:04] going through not all black people but certain talking about going through is the cause of this racism or is it

[00:10:10] something else and this is where our dialogue is is that I I tend to to lean

[00:10:15] towards that there’s a larger problem that’s not racism but it’s another issue

[00:10:20] if it is if it is racism that I’m I’m like we need to as much as possible

[00:10:27] stamp it out of existence you know or at least get people to not act racist even

[00:10:35] if they’re thinking racist right people are sinful that that’s what the Bible says that the heart is desperately

[00:10:40] wicked who can know it and only Christ is the solution to the healing of the human heart ultimately

[00:10:46] amen but but when it comes to the issues of like what happened to the gentleman

[00:10:53] sadly and tragically just recently in the drive-through and he was shot I mean

[00:11:00] that particular issue I don’t know if you got to look up on that but where he pulled the cops taser and yeah

[00:11:06] I mean would you say that that was an issue of racism or what would your perspective I think I think so I think

[00:11:12] it would regard to race and I want to just kind of like just kind of contextualized right like yeah so I do

[00:11:18] think that I think it’s too full right I never excuse you know sin on any on

[00:11:24] either side right yeah I’m sitting like if you’re a Europe if you’re a father right like you need to be a father right

[00:11:31] like I mean like that that’s just it but also at the same time I also understand systems and structures like you know

[00:11:36] you’re you’re a theologian right now I know the little theology so I’m gonna just try to chop my head you know John

[00:11:43] 3:16 for God so loved the world right the world you know I think the Greek word in there is cosmos right which

[00:11:49] essentially refers to systems and structures you see the same kind a little battle that we’re fighting in

[00:11:54] terms of the sin of racism is within we look at everything from a kind of an individualized standpoint like yeah

[00:12:00] individual to individual when the truth of the matter is this thing is like system you see it I’m saying right the

[00:12:07] world that we live in the world that the Bible was referring to was was systems you see them saying so um so I think

[00:12:13] that as it relates to racism we fight against systemic racism and I would say

[00:12:19] this and I’m gonna get you a point but this is something I often think of yeah because you know and I brought up the

[00:12:25] and I’m gonna I’m gonna get to the right to the the issue that happened on Saturday yeah no worries no worries take your time man so I always and I was

[00:12:32] telling someone I said like if I came to your house say you but I came your house in and I smashed a glass

[00:12:39] alright on on the floor broke into thousands of little pieces right okay

[00:12:45] are hundreds of pieces yeah and and you can clean it up and then I came back the next day and I smashed it you didn’t

[00:12:52] clean it up or whatever reasons right yeah and then we did that I did that for a

[00:12:57] year I have my single day I think I would stop and say you could let’s say

[00:13:05] for whatever you okay right yeah yeah and at the end of the year I say okay you know what let’s see let’s

[00:13:12] see if we if we could if we can clean this thing up you see him saying yeah well that’s gonna take a long time to

[00:13:18] clean up right yeah well you think about like this the black family alright was what first up was

[00:13:25] what’s like was smashed into pieces every single day for four hundred years

[00:13:31] plus every single day through rape culture all right like fathers were

[00:13:37] literally snatched away from families that was like the thing let’s take the bottom so if that’s what’s been and I

[00:13:43] don’t excuse it for today right when you wear know better you do better yeah but well that has happened for over 400 years we can’t say you know and then

[00:13:51] you we’re not even talking about Jim Crow we can no longer say okay we didn’t know how to be a family for so long

[00:13:57] right and so now you know for 50 years it’s not gonna get solved that solution

[00:14:03] isn’t gonna be there you see what I’m saying right I think I think I think we’re seeing residual effects and like I

[00:14:09] said 400 years 260 years man I’m like I’m a math person and you know I’ve

[00:14:15] worked with models and stuff like that it just doesn’t add up with regard to the the guy the police officer on

[00:14:20] Saturday yeah I think that here’s here’s

[00:14:27] what I think all right the guy pulled the stage no but the guy was clearly drunk right so wisdom would say for me

[00:14:34] we’re gonna stick this guy was drunk all right he was in his car and I think that there has to be a sensitivity and also

[00:14:41] given the climate of the day what’s been going on for two or three for the last two or three weeks like you’ve had to

[00:14:47] have your head under a rock not just yeah what’s going on right I’m sure you guys going on right we got the guy says

[00:14:53] the guy says okay I’ll I’ll I’ll park the car and I’ll walk home you know what

[00:15:00] I’m saying and again that’s wait like for me it’s kinda like okay if the dude says he applauded the car no walk home

[00:15:06] like oh right welcome home like I don’t I don’t you know I’m not I have a friend

[00:15:12] of mine who’s an awesome man of Christ who was a police officer Yeah right he’s experienced racism on the force he’ll say that but is all but

[00:15:20] is a Christian and he’s in a no-win situation cuz hes a blatte he’s black yeah so family you know the saying is

[00:15:26] that’s here yeah but but you know it that’s difficult for me because my you

[00:15:31] were but what would you are I’m just curious when you argued that it was racism or was it just a bad

[00:15:37] decision-making potentially in that one I would you know at first initially I’m

[00:15:43] thinking it’s bad decision-making right like when you’re I’m thinking okay right like don’t don’t engage you know in

[00:15:48] general like yes let’s seek peace right yeah but then when you shoot the guy in

[00:15:53] the back as he’s running away like for me it’s kind of like and my wife says

[00:16:00] she’s melt so my wife is biracial my wife was raised in a small white town in Ashland Kentucky yeah so as host yes

[00:16:09] a unique perspective on life um but but you know she said if you can’t handle a

[00:16:14] drunk guy running away from you you know they well he had the Taser and he turned around and aimed it at him

[00:16:20] yeah and he shot it he shot the Taser at him and which is which is and I do not

[00:16:25] excuse that and that’s why I mean that’s a difficult situation but yeah and I think what makes that situation so

[00:16:31] difficult right is all of the other past you know like discretions yeah I’m

[00:16:37] saying there like like like that’s what makes that so difficult so yeah student

[00:16:44] somebody in the back and but but here’s my thing here’s my this is the this is an argument I saw a video of a white guy

[00:16:52] who was naked this is in Texas it happened maybe here – oh no I’m not sure you ever seen it but he’s literally

[00:16:59] running around he was running around shooting people then somebody wrestled the gun away from

[00:17:04] and then he’s like he picked up some of the weapon and he’s he’s chasing the cops with the weapon it’s like a knife

[00:17:10] or some he’s butt-naked and he’s chasing the cops with the weapon and so when I

[00:17:16] see that I say okay hmm he had a weapon right as well he’s

[00:17:22] hazing the cops with the weapon multiple like the cops are trying to corral he’s hey something with the weapon and

[00:17:27] so again hear me both of them are wrong right yeah but you want the black Chris but from a black as a black man’s

[00:17:33] perspective I said if he was black there’s no way he’d have been dead the video was like the video was like three minutes long and I’m saying he’d have

[00:17:39] been dead in 10 seconds for just based on history so difficult man and I mean

[00:17:45] that’s that’s yeah I understand where you’re coming from I mean that’s it I want to acknowledge that’s anecdotal in the sense that we’re

[00:17:52] telling stories here’s a white guy that did this I did this and you know the stats on it that I’m reading from like

[00:17:58] New York City and everything are not saying the stats and you know this is where we get down to okay we’re here in

[00:18:06] different stories you know we’re hearing one story over here we’re here in another over here what’s that exactly

[00:18:11] and we’re trying to do we’re trying to go okay Who am I supposed to listen to here right we’re both opposed to racism but the question is okay what’s the

[00:18:18] solution and so I want to push back a little bit on what you said about the whole family situation because and just

[00:18:25] you you can decide what you want based on the perspective that I’m sharing here

[00:18:30] but so right now according to the Centers for Disease Control they’re

[00:18:36] saying that currently because I believe it is in 1965 25% of black babies were

[00:18:47] born out of wedlock but in 2015 it was 73 percent in 1965 five percent of white

[00:18:53] babies were born out of wedlock 2015 25 percent and in 1965 twenty four percent

[00:19:01] of Hispanic babies were born out of wedlock in 2015 it was 53 percent now

[00:19:06] all the way around this is bad this isn’t good for anybody for babies to be born out of wedlock and I actually

[00:19:11] believe that this is the big part of the problem overall in culture because it went from essentially nobody born out of

[00:19:19] wedlock prior to 1960 the stats were so little – now it’s 41 percent a four of

[00:19:26] every baby born four of every child born is born out of wedlock and the stats on

[00:19:32] out of whether a child growing up in a single-parent home is devastating I mean when you hear the stats they they seem

[00:19:40] almost impossible they’re so devastating but they’re very clear crystal clear and

[00:19:46] so what begins – and I looked into this because I’m like thinking to myself you

[00:19:52] know I’ve been friends with I’ve had black friends my whole life all my life

[00:19:57] I had I one of my best friends in elementary school Delmar William was we used to walk to school every day together another kid Tommy

[00:20:04] silver me and him hung out all the time I you know I went to Point Loma high school I went to a public high school I

[00:20:09] had tons of black friends many many of my friends on the wrestling team were black my brother was actually the only white

[00:20:17] guy on his wrestling team in high school all the guys were black and you know and

[00:20:22] I’ve experienced my own kind of racism I’ve had stuff happen to me where where I’ve I was what trying to buy a house

[00:20:29] one time in Alabama and and I was kind of ignorant I didn’t know the racial

[00:20:36] demographics and I thought hey this is a good house to buy right here and somebody posted a sign on it it said we

[00:20:41] don’t want any white people here and I was like whoa what the heck I didn’t know that and I know you’ve experienced

[00:20:47] stuff too yeah and so there is a certain amount of racism that people experience just it happens right that were sinners but I

[00:20:55] think that racism I think what’s happening or what has happened is in

[00:21:02] 1964 so in 1962 they took prayer out of schools in the public schools in 1963

[00:21:08] they took the Bible out of schools in 1964 Lyndon Johnson started the war on poverty in which they began to help and

[00:21:16] this was a good heart right they began to help mothers who were single mothers by providing them

[00:21:22] with what they needed in order to help them survive and the more children they

[00:21:29] had and if there wasn’t a father in the picture then they ended up being able to get more money and I just want to read

[00:21:37] this to you and hear what you think about it this is this is actual facts here right so a single mother with two

[00:21:44] children who earns $15,000 per year would generally receive around 5,200 dollars per year of food stamp benefits

[00:21:50] but if she married a father with the same earnings level her food stamps would be cut to zero so she loses fifty

[00:21:58] two hundred dollars per year as soon as she gets married that was a government policy that began in this age of

[00:22:05] families with a good heart in 1964 a single mother receiving benefits from section 8 or public housing would

[00:22:11] receive a subsidy worth on average around 11 thousand dollars per year if she was not employed but if she marries a man

[00:22:17] earning 20,000 per year those benefits would be cut nearly in half both food stamps and housing programs provide a

[00:22:24] very real financial incentive for couples to remain separate and unmarried now here’s the funny thing about this it

[00:22:30] was not funny but even today with Kovac right I have I know people who are

[00:22:37] deliberately not going back to work right now because they get more money

[00:22:42] from the unemployment check than they do if they actually go back to work and

[00:22:47] I’ve heard this from multiple people now one one of my friends that the place he

[00:22:53] works is is a very big company and they’re giving him to September to decide if he wants to come back he can

[00:22:59] totally go back to work everything’s fine but he will not because the check he’s getting is larger than what he

[00:23:05] would get if he went back to work so what I’m saying is is that government policy does have a real impact on human

[00:23:11] behavior and so my question becomes because of this is it this is the point

[00:23:16] that a lot of people are making is that the worst thing of the increase in the divorce rates because of the fact that

[00:23:23] that the government has been essentially discouraging marriage through bad policy

[00:23:32] and so what you end up with is a bunch of single-parent families with these

[00:23:37] kids being raised by single mothers most of the time and this precipitates and

[00:23:43] I’ll read the stat from this was a stat from Obama said this he said

[00:23:52] let’s see he’s just quoting common stats in social science a kid without a father

[00:23:59] is five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime nine times more likely to drop out of school and 20

[00:24:06] times more likely to end up in prison and so if you end up with 73% of black

[00:24:13] kids growing up without a father then the natural byproduct is of course gonna

[00:24:18] be crime talking out of school let me push back real quick so I’m not sure about the 73% stat like I mean I

[00:24:25] just said I think an hour I’ll tell you where that that comes from yeah I got mine from NIH National Institutes of

[00:24:31] Health like that’s kind of the for research where wherever I go my idea of research you know you know that UC Santa

[00:24:39] Barbara doing research and so I was so real quick minds from the from the CDC the National Vital Statistics yeah yeah

[00:24:46] I got mine from NIH and so I saw 42% for black Americans it that’s divorce rate

[00:24:51] though right 36 percent for 36 were safe but I’m so right now I’m not quoting

[00:24:57] divorce stats I’m quoting out of wedlock births seventy-three percent of black

[00:25:02] kids are growing up in a father absent home so that that’s the vital statistics

[00:25:08] from the CDC okay so so again as I said that I had like yeah I’ll go back and

[00:25:15] research that cuz I remember like in the previous conversation say like seven times you know that was apologize for

[00:25:21] that that was my idea I was I meant to be quoting this and I was cool alright again so so even if even if you if that

[00:25:29] like if that statistic hold right let’s say let’s say let’s you know say for sake of argument that statistics

[00:25:35] statistic holds yeah I think from a policy standpoint and and I think this is where we said what’s hurting black

[00:25:41] people right what’s hurting so as and as Christians we say okay I think I kind of

[00:25:48] alluded that earlier God is not going to fix a gonna skip over the church house to fix the White House we cannot expect

[00:25:55] for the White House to make policies on either side for anyone that’s gonna that’s want to help you know let’s want

[00:26:00] to solve this problem so within the context of the church which when I message you that’s what we’re

[00:26:06] where I like where for me is kind of like let’s let’s go there right because let’s again let’s say for sake of

[00:26:11] argument that fatherlessness right is a problem right it’ll then who’s supposed to fix it as I

[00:26:17] remember in again I’m not a theologian but I also do remember that in James it says that we should we should be what

[00:26:23] what God is a father to the fatherless and we the church right should you shoot

[00:26:28] supplant that right we should ultimately be the ones that go to those the widows and the orphans so in light of that how

[00:26:37] do we do that as the church right because because that’s again as I said God’s not gonna skip the church house to

[00:26:43] fix the white house it starts with us so within the context of the church all right how do we do that well first of

[00:26:49] all I think and this is this is my I think my biggest thing and this is why why I messaged you is because like so

[00:26:56] I’ve been on I don’t know now just why

[00:27:03] just one of the churches in Myrtle Beach might actually won the you know this large white and white church is here

[00:27:09] awesome person person Jeff Dunn is the kind of call courageous conversations um so I’ve been on that and and we’ve been

[00:27:15] talking about this very issue for the last four Sundays and I think the first thing for me is okay if the church is gonna fix it and

[00:27:21] we ask the church right have to do it black and white right but now it’s going

[00:27:26] to be it’s gonna have to be our white brothers and sisters in Christ who step up right and who and who speak up for

[00:27:32] that um and I think that that’s probably been then if I’m honest with you here’s

[00:27:37] the thing if if four hundred four hundred plus years ago right if the

[00:27:43] church had said no slavery is wrong this is wrong right

[00:27:48] then the race issue the systemic issues that ultimately led to a lot of what we see today give us a domino effect that I

[00:27:54] said four hundred plus years every single day families being broken into pieces right like that’s not going to

[00:28:02] stop because all of a sudden there were a couple bills on right and and like wait we’re just not gonna fix it in 50

[00:28:08] 60 70 years that doesn’t happen that’s not reality a Mariam no William let me

[00:28:13] let me push back on there just a little bit so here’s the interesting thing right

[00:28:19] and and this is where I think you and I differ the most is on the solution to the problem I do believe that you are

[00:28:27] right God is not going to skip over the church house to fix the White House because really it’s a it’s an issue of

[00:28:32] the heart there’s no doubt about it when it comes when it comes to real change it’s got to be heart change and

[00:28:38] only Jesus can do that i completely agree with you that there is behavioral modification and interestingly enough

[00:28:44] you know the question becomes you know what role is the government play here because the church is not meant to do

[00:28:50] behavioral modification that’s not what the church is meant to no no it’s meant to change the heart but I’ll give you an

[00:28:57] example what I’m talking about with my kids right when I’m disciplining them a lot of times their hearts their heart’s

[00:29:03] not in it yet right they’re not there so for example my son he’s a little

[00:29:09] hard-headed and he’s got a long way to go when it comes to learning about Jesus and and it changing his heart but in the

[00:29:16] meantime I’ve got to protect him from himself and I’ve got to protect him from

[00:29:22] his I got to protect his sisters from him right because he’s bigger than them he’s

[00:29:27] older and he’s going to want to take advantage of them so I have to modify his behavior while God is continuing to

[00:29:33] work on his heart and so I guess what I’m saying is this I’m saying that that

[00:29:39] for example um it William Wilberforce is the guy that is credited essentially the

[00:29:45] Christian who love God who felt all men were created equal and fought slavery in

[00:29:51] Britain and he’s credited with being the driving force that eliminated the legal

[00:29:57] slave trade in Britain and what did he did he do it through now he moved on

[00:30:03] people’s hearts no doubt about it but ultimately he was involved in Parliament where he got policy changes that took

[00:30:10] place that were god-honoring that ultimately were able to stop it so he was – he was doing it he was moving in

[00:30:16] both parts he was moving both in policy but he was also moving in communicating

[00:30:22] the truth of God and the love of God and the truth that God had created all people equal to everybody and so so

[00:30:31] I hear what you’re saying but I my feeling is that there’s such an overemphasis as if as if racism is the

[00:30:41] key issue here when in fact there are other issues that are moral issues also

[00:30:47] in my opinion there are moral issues right because the government is legislating moral issues right bortion

[00:30:53] is a moral issue it’s wrong and the government has legalized it that’s a moral issue that they’ve legislated and

[00:31:00] we are fighting to turn that over right throgh ahead yeah and this is and I

[00:31:07] think that this is again this is the you know again you’re absolutely right like

[00:31:13] I I don’t disagree with you but but this is exactly what I’m what I’m saying like um I I truly believe that when you say

[00:31:23] like okay you know we’re fighting against abortion right and this is this is where for me as as masais it within

[00:31:30] our conversation and I want to keep this one in the scope of cuz I I just you here’s the truth of the matter right like we’re never probably because of our

[00:31:38] experiences will probably never agree on policies and different things that won’t happen so as as Christians we have to

[00:31:44] figure out okay what’s a common ground right like what’s a banner that we can that we can like well that we can get

[00:31:50] under together all right as black Christians I mean with Christians black and white right what’s a banner that we

[00:31:57] can get over together to pick to fix this thing all right you know and I think that in that that’s where it’s

[00:32:02] kinda like okay I gotta put politics aside but here’s here’s my issue and and this is exactly what I said I’ve been

[00:32:07] saying on the panel um and this is that is to my white brothers and sisters in Christ and I think they will they will

[00:32:16] fight for a you know the sanctity of life right they will fight for

[00:32:22] Thank You team it’s like I’ve been like I said I grew up Pensacola Christian cake bar through eighth grade I was at you know as an adult as a professional

[00:32:28] you know taught at Christian and I always hurt those those issue sensitive

[00:32:33] life you know sanctity of manners but that that same fight hasn’t has against

[00:32:40] racism systemic right and otherwise we have not seen that from the church from

[00:32:45] our white brothers and sisters of Christ like like out in front you see them saying and you say what fix it like and

[00:32:52] I think this is the thing like I’ve been at churches where they pour millions like like millions into missions

[00:33:00] overseas and I was just with two brothers in Christ black brothers in Christ very successful ones Guinness PhD

[00:33:06] in education the other one is an optometrist assistant love Jesus and you know what one of them said he said I

[00:33:11] don’t know he said I’ll never go do a mission overseas when we can go right up the street to the hood and there are

[00:33:19] people that need it why do we fight and that’s I think that’s the point it’s like why don’t we fighting for millions

[00:33:24] why don’t we make that fight overseas to get the gospel out overseas to help them write you and could you kind of talk

[00:33:30] about behavior modification like why don’t we try to help them right in in two or three weeks and emissions missions trip two or three weeks when

[00:33:37] we’ve got the hood right here and we could go and try to do the same thing there how about let’s start there how

[00:33:43] about we go and talk to talk to the mothers there and do your community and do like their first you see what I’m

[00:33:49] saying but we have that and and that and that is the thing and so I think yes you’re right like policies do Nietzsche

[00:33:57] I agree can I be honest with you know a lot of and this is the this is the truth

[00:34:03] you have a lot of african-americans who their core values right like President

[00:34:08] Trump one eight eight eight percent of the book love the black boat yeah right yeah but I don’t be honest with you a

[00:34:13] lot of the core values this in terms of how you know what people think about God and what people think about about you

[00:34:20] know Jesus that aligns more with eigvals loves price that aligns more with

[00:34:26] conservatives but do you know why black people will never vote for conservatives

[00:34:31] because they don’t hear the church our white brothers inconsistent and Christ they do not hear them out in front not

[00:34:38] quite not Sun but out in front speaking against racism now if they did that now you get an inroad into the black

[00:34:45] community right you you you get that policy change because why they say okay I know that the sanctity of life matters

[00:34:52] and to a lot of black people that matters believe it or not right yeah I know that I know that sanctity of marriage matters

[00:34:57] but to you but I also know that I Who I am in Christ as an image bear of God I

[00:35:03] know that I mattered to you as well you see them saying we can’t once we can get on the same page then maybe we can we

[00:35:10] could actually get some policy change but you said it’s a heart issue and so so let me let me let me throw this your

[00:35:17] way in tithing because you’re saying here’s why black people are not gonna vote for Trump now I know there’s

[00:35:24] actually they won’t vote for Trump but like I’m saying traditionally conservative traditionally concerned I’m

[00:35:31] not I’m not gonna say chocolate consumer traditionally right sure sure open history yes there does seem to be a bit

[00:35:37] of a change taking place I mean the amount of people that I’ve never seen this before with the amount of people that are coming out black people that

[00:35:44] are coming out that are actually saying I am going to vote for Trump there’s a decent amount of people but regardless

[00:35:50] of that I’m not I’m not that’s not my focus here um what what I mean I hear what you’re saying but and just tell me

[00:35:57] your thoughts on this again the issue here to me and again I could be wrong I

[00:36:04] know there is racism that happens but generally when people define something as systemic racism what they’re saying

[00:36:10] is is there’s racism in the system meaning that actually the actual laws

[00:36:15] are racist themselves so the laws themselves currently it’s not racist

[00:36:22] there are no quote racist laws where you can say for example you can’t serve a

[00:36:27] black or you you are allowed to allowed to discriminate against Blacks there’s no legal way let me finish

[00:36:36] there’s no there’s no legal law now I’m not saying that there aren’t people that are empowered that a racist who use

[00:36:42] their power to then be racist and to keep somebody from being hired in that

[00:36:48] way sure they’re that take place but but legally we have done

[00:36:54] away with that what you know through numerous amendments and everything else that’s taken place so that’s why we have

[00:37:00] our first black president is simply because there’s a lot of ground that has been gained in that regard so a lot of

[00:37:05] white people are saying this is what they’re saying they’re saying yeah racism is an issue but it’s it’s become

[00:37:11] a minor issue compared to the larger issue the the larger issues that are

[00:37:17] that we have to deal with which they’re saying is the larger issue is that now our government is encouraging

[00:37:24] fatherlessness it’s essentially encouraging this and this is what we need to do something about now now

[00:37:30] there’s policies taking place because I would say honestly that what happened here in San Diego and they this was a

[00:37:37] huge issue in San Diego at Point Loma high school I was in the middle of when they began to bust kids in black kids in

[00:37:44] to Point Loma high school and this was all in a temp because they said black kids were being locked into schools

[00:37:50] where they they weren’t which were failing in schools now I think this is a public school issue this is the whole

[00:37:55] school choice issue in my opinion which I believe is a big solution to this part of this problem but right now a Lincoln

[00:38:01] High School has seen failure after failure after failure after they have which was a predominantly black school

[00:38:08] eighty percent after they pumped 129 million dollars into the school and the question becomes why and this goes back

[00:38:15] to well fatherlessness now yeah sure the churches need to go out and they need to do whatever they can to try to support

[00:38:22] to support those the black families but the problem is is it if the black if the

[00:38:27] if the fatherless issue isn’t solved you’re going to continue to have these problems with school dropout gang

[00:38:35] activity teen pregnancy and all these horrible issues that a lot of these

[00:38:42] young black kids are facing I had a black kid come to Christian High told me I asked him he came from another local

[00:38:47] high school he said Mr Conover if I was still at that school I’d probably be dead that’s what he said straight up to

[00:38:53] me he said my best friend was killed at the school and I saw that happen when I was in high school when I graduated in

[00:39:00] 94 Willie Jones they named a street after him everything he was on his way to an Ivy League school he was a state champion wrestler

[00:39:06] black kid incredible and he was shot leaving his graduation party by another

[00:39:11] black kid by drive drive-by shooting and so what some people are saying is look

[00:39:16] you you had they quote the stats on the amount of black people killed last year

[00:39:21] in 2019 by cops it’s a very low number compared to the overall and then you can

[00:39:28] look at the amount of people that have died at Chicago which is six thousand killed my boasting black it ends up being point one percent of blacks killed

[00:39:35] by cops versus the amount of killed by blacks and so what they’re saying is the issue isn’t racism by cops even though

[00:39:43] there are racist cops that’s not that’s not I’m not arguing that there aren’t those racist cops they’re saying that

[00:39:49] the larger issue is is that we’ve got to help the black family and and you know

[00:39:54] we can all talk about what the best way to do that is well so first of all the

[00:39:59] set show that some of ninety like so essentially the black on black crime is 92 percent white on white crime is 86

[00:40:05] percent you’re more than like you like and with this been quoted ad nauseam you’re more often than not like to you

[00:40:11] know murders about is going to be committed by someone who you live close to who ultimately lives like is the same

[00:40:16] color shoe that’s typical so the black on black crime it’s six percent higher six percent too much for me but 86

[00:40:22] percent for why don’t white crime 92 percent for black on black crime like you know the stats I think are

[00:40:29] ultimately misleading and you can massage data you know as I said I’ve done research I published I’ve been

[00:40:35] blessed to publish you know in stats paper and like you can massage the data as much as you like to get it to fit

[00:40:41] your model right okay I disagree with that though well like I said ninety to 86 percent on what is one on white crime

[00:40:48] so that’s high too right yeah yeah but quite naturally but but but but I don’t

[00:40:53] want to get caught on caught up on that because earlier you talked about you said a lot and some I was writing down

[00:41:00] addresses so um you talked about systemic racism how white you know white people are saying that racism is you

[00:41:07] know it’s kind of like a moot point or its second day its secondary to a larger

[00:41:12] issue so yeah I’m pretty sure that a lot of your listeners probably no Tony Evans yes Tony Evans a

[00:41:20] pastor at Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship yeah are going to ban alternative a Tony

[00:41:27] Evans has the kingdom series Kingdom and King the women came family Tony Tony Evans has done he has a book

[00:41:33] that I would encourage everyone to get is called a oneness embrace in which he addresses a lot of these issues now

[00:41:40] here’s the thing his ministry has reached and as touch and has addressed fathers fathers nests and has done an

[00:41:46] awesome job in terms of pulling in you know especially fathers in general but black box right I mean he’s been doing

[00:41:53] that for a long time he hasn’t renowned white pastors and black pastors when this thing started

[00:41:59] happening back in like 2020 only 2012 and then through 2016 they will bring

[00:42:05] him in to talk to them at large about this issue but now here’s the thing right as successful as he is now his

[00:42:12] radio station is syndicate syndicate all across the world do you know that they

[00:42:17] were that he tells a story about how Christian stations would not allow him

[00:42:23] on in 1986 they wouldn’t allow him on they like they wouldn’t put him on do you know what they said they said our

[00:42:29] white listeners will not hear will not take well to a black man speaking on on

[00:42:36] radio hey took James Dobson Focus on the Family to write a letter to say that hey

[00:42:43] you need to put him on this is not biblical this is not right now you take

[00:42:49] that away think and his ministry has touched my life as man as a matter of fact first time ever heard Tony Evans was actually at when I was that shadow

[00:42:55] Mountain oh the church this first time I heard him my mom this is my life he’s a beast when it comes down to the work but

[00:43:02] so so yes you are absolutely right while the rules may have changed and I’ve gotten into real estate and things like

[00:43:08] that so well the rules may have make may have changed right there’s still loopholes in gray area where systemic

[00:43:15] racism is constantly like like stop and frisk that like that in in New York that was deemed a this one it was struck down

[00:43:22] by the Supreme Court right because god blacks it was said blacks were we’re like six times as likely to get pulled

[00:43:28] over all right and and and and and in interest and then whites okay like like that was like

[00:43:34] these like the stats were crazy alright and so that rule is ultimately struck down I think it does back in like two

[00:43:40] thousand and once there was thirteen fourteen right and so so yes you are

[00:43:46] absolutely right that the rules have changed but there is so much gray area and the people in power and you said

[00:43:52] well it’s all about the people in power well in most instances let’s be honest in most instances who are the people in

[00:43:57] power there and I’m not blaming I’m not blaming white people but I’m saying like you have to remember people

[00:44:04] you said it’s a heart issue well the program like our if the person in powers heart is it isn’t that of Christ then

[00:44:12] and and they ultimately can kind of set the atmosphere set the standard then

[00:44:17] we’re fighting essentially a never-ending battle that’s why I said as it relates to policy it will never have

[00:44:23] it hasn’t happened yet all right Jim Crow okay so that’s so hot and I don’t think gonna happen unless we the church

[00:44:29] black and white and that’s why I say we know white brothers in Christ to step up and to denounce it and so ultimately

[00:44:34] like and I know what I encourage everyone everyone is embraced because Tony Evans he talks about how okay so

[00:44:41] clay and so I don’t think policy we can argue policy all day I just don’t think

[00:44:46] it’s ever gonna change okay well I think this is a good discussion because I’m hearing your perspective and I’m glad to

[00:44:51] share with you my perspective I wanna I want to say something else that because

[00:44:56] you said you like have an honest conversation so I don’t want to say something that’s slightly uncomfortable and not really politically correct but

[00:45:03] here’s the thing too right we we it’s really important that we just we differentiate between racism

[00:45:10] stereotyping discrimination and Prejudice right because racism is very specifically a person who thinks that

[00:45:17] they are superior to another race but there’s a difference between a person

[00:45:23] who thinks they’re superior to another race who is racist and a person who is used to the general reactions of a

[00:45:32] particular race and is responding through what has become a stereotype or

[00:45:38] what has become a prejudice because this is what they have experienced right an exemple give an

[00:45:45] example yeah so I’ll give you an example so if I if I get on a plane and I have

[00:45:51] one of my best friends in high school was Muslim so I I do not consider myself

[00:45:56] racist in the least I am friends with everybody I love everybody I don’t have any problem with anybody I have a

[00:46:03] problem with behavior I don’t have a problem with where people are coming from I do my very best to love people

[00:46:10] like Christ loves them and I’m a very forgiving person generally too so it but

[00:46:17] if I was on a plane and a guy walked in and he was wearing a full white thing right and he had on a small backpack

[00:46:25] right just like a anybody would their or

[00:46:31] immediately crosses their mind oh shoot now why is it just racism no it’s

[00:46:37] because what what they have become accustomed to is that the majority of terrorism attacks that have taken place

[00:46:43] recently happened by radical Muslims is it fair for them to characterize in

[00:46:48] America in America 55 percent of all mass shootings have occurred from white males well I I don’t I don’t think

[00:46:54] because I see and I don’t think could I see a white male with the gun that I’ll shoot he’s about the he’s about to shoot

[00:46:59] me there and that’s so like that I think that you know well I don’t think that yeah I think I think regardless my my

[00:47:06] example stands and that is this so let’s just take it back to this if you have if it’s true that 73 percent of black kids

[00:47:15] are being born out of wedlock which again I’d have to okay so let’s see it

[00:47:20] let’s for now we’ll use it as a hypothetical okay you know I think I think you’re gonna find that the evidence supports that okay clay okay so

[00:47:30] let’s just go with that as a hypothetical if I’m wrong about the 73 percent then everything the conclusions

[00:47:35] are wrong and guess what I want to know that okay that’s wrong that I want to know that absolutely so so but let’s say

[00:47:41] hypothetically if said if it’s true well let’s just use Italians so it takes it

[00:47:47] off of it so let’s say that 73% of it’s Italians I’m just using this as a hypothetical

[00:47:53] we’re born out of wedlock and we know that the stats are that kids that are

[00:47:58] born out of wedlock boys born out of wedlock are much more likely to get involved in gangs they’re much more likely to get involved in crime and much

[00:48:05] more likely to get involved in they’re much more likely to drop drop out of school in the much more likely to commit

[00:48:10] violent crimes and end up in prison if this was the case and I lived in an

[00:48:15] Italian neighborhood and I was a minority in that Italian neighborhood or whatever the case and I kept bumping

[00:48:20] into these Italians and because they were in fatherless homes this there happened to be this consistent situation

[00:48:27] it wasn’t all of them but there was a decent amount of situation in which this is what I was coming up against I was

[00:48:32] coming up against violence I was coming up against being threatened I was coming up against these things um regardless of

[00:48:39] whether the person becomes racist or or or they’re just prejudiced because most likely they they have good Italian

[00:48:45] friends anyway right there because there are lots of good Italians but because this is happening so frequently what

[00:48:52] happens is is as a result of that as a result of fatherlessness not as a result

[00:48:58] of racism as a result of fatherlessness you are breeding prejudice stereotyping

[00:49:04] and discrimination so so I it’s it’s food for thought well let me let me add

[00:49:09] let me ask this let me ask so because because I think it’s very important context is very important right yeah um

[00:49:15] so so let’s let’s say that let’s say that I I would agree with you right

[00:49:21] since we’re a hypothetical all right yeah so let’s say that I would agree with you because again I always want to bring this back in streamline this to

[00:49:28] the point you know why we even having this conversation right absolutely yeah so when when because this is the

[00:49:35] last three weeks have been about police police brutality it’s been about yeah they make in just

[00:49:42] when I go out right like let’s say that let’s say that we got that we got it down to we got you at that rate down to

[00:49:49] if it was true right let’s say we got down to eight percent

[00:49:54] when those blacks go out those black boys go out and they’re applying for jobs or or when they are seen in the

[00:50:01] public eye no one knows if they have if they have a father or not you like do

[00:50:08] you understand that so as it relates to systemic racism and police brutality that argument does not

[00:50:13] hold because I don’t know if you have a father or not and I can’t tell based on how you look you’re in jail

[00:50:20] okay well as it relates to as we like to you’re not again I want to bring this under the umbrella of the conversation

[00:50:25] that we were having as it relates to that it does number I I don’t know if you remember Tim here’s Tim hi Tim is

[00:50:34] one of the most awesome young men I know Tim Tim just graduate you play basketball graduate from Rice

[00:50:39] University yeah I’ve been blessed I taught I haven’t taught at Christian since 2011 2012 yeah is Tim is uh uh but

[00:50:47] but I’ve been blessed to be able to like nurture that relationship tim has call me at 2:00 in the morning sometime like

[00:50:53] like and I pray with Tim Tim is six-nine yeah when you see what I’m saying tim is

[00:50:59] six-block yeah all right Tim is a dark-skinned brother but Tim is one of the most awesome young male I know when

[00:51:04] Tim goes out nobody knows what that Tim graduated from Rice University yeah all

[00:51:10] right a very good academic school nobody knows that so that’s what I’m saying like you like the fatherlessness

[00:51:16] argument that’s great all right that’s cool but within the context of the world right in terms of how people see and how

[00:51:23] the blend out blacks are view and have been viewed over time historically all

[00:51:28] right check out Birth of a Nation right that that that does not matter and that’s what I’m saying

[00:51:34] and I understand that policies like policies won’t change that you understand what I’m saying like I so me

[00:51:40] for me my listen I never smoked a day in my life never drank all right like I

[00:51:45] mean as I said I love Christ done mission work all right when I went to cinnabar when I was in

[00:51:51] Santa Barbara I literally when I went to grad school in Santa Barbara I had my truck there it was

[00:51:57] shipping on it like a Thursday all right that that Friday morning I pulled out made a right on to everyone saves Camino

[00:52:04] del Norte and I left five seconds guess what cop comes pulls me over and says my

[00:52:11] truck has been seen around the block and I fit the description I just got there for grad school you

[00:52:17] understand what I’m saying so and that’s what I’m saying that cop didn’t know if I had a father or not he don’t know if I

[00:52:22] came from a two-parent family or not yeah so the argument of fatherlessness solving this does not work it has to be

[00:52:31] the church that is like but the church is important the church isn’t the church

[00:52:36] it’s beefy nice let me but let me explain this to you this is really

[00:52:42] important because here’s here’s what I’m what I’m saying I’m saying if we do not acknowledge this and identify this

[00:52:48] properly then we’re gonna be fighting something that’s not gonna solve the

[00:52:54] issue you’re saying the issue is hey we don’t want people to be racist but I’m saying for that cop you you I’m just

[00:53:02] saying I’m not saying I don’t want people to be racist no I’m because again and I think that again we both love

[00:53:08] Christ so that both of them are same right the home is sin racism is seen

[00:53:14] right the two can be true at the same time yeah what I’m saying is I think what we’re saying is when you talk about

[00:53:20] when we talk about okay fatherlessness in the home right because it starts here right on their four levels to this all

[00:53:26] right so the and I think the four levels are first personal personal accountability that’s first right like

[00:53:32] each individual person right now moreso talking to the church to the body of Christ each individual person saying

[00:53:39] because I’ll be honest with you on our on our courageous conversations I would really encourage everyone to go and

[00:53:44] check that out all right um yeah what’s the website working thing where can they took that I tell you what I’ll send it to you could

[00:53:49] I send it to you like if you if you own Facebook and type in Christ unite at Myrtle Beach you’ll see courageous

[00:53:54] conversations we’ve done two of them and as I said I think it’s I think it’s facilitated by a Jeff Dunn white pastor

[00:54:01] awesome but also many but he married my wife and I we’ve attended his church for like seven years awesome Eric Browns right um but but but

[00:54:09] I think I think you know one of the things personal accountability that you you know even Jeff pastor Jeff was like

[00:54:15] I had racism in me he got beat up by you know for black kids when he was in the fourth grade right and he

[00:54:22] I’m gonna pick South Carolina and just said I had racism I had racism in me and

[00:54:27] and but he said he said you know it took you know me like saying god I don’t want

[00:54:33] this in me you know it took acknowledging it hurts right and and and for how that looks

[00:54:38] you know for each individual Christian like and I let’s say this you have a lot of Christians who say I I’m not I’m not

[00:54:44] racist right but I would argue this um without without proximity there can be

[00:54:49] no empathy yeah I agree with that right so in other words you well it’s easy to

[00:54:55] say I’m not racist until you actually are doing like right or have to be

[00:55:00] within the within the the space of someone who’s experiencing these things consistently day to day is is I think it

[00:55:09] it’s easy to say that until like I said until you actually had made a relational investment alright in someone you see

[00:55:16] them saying I think proximity makes a gigantic difference absolutely right so

[00:55:21] Christ Christ wanted us to be personal absolutely and look he he wanted to be so personal that he left heaven to come

[00:55:27] and he came to us right so I would say for that and this is why I say about the church like you know for us like we I

[00:55:34] think we’re so like again Sunday is the most segregated day in the in the in the country in their different demographics

[00:55:40] I know that that you know you’re in Maine you’re not gonna get as many black people in Maine so you’re not gonna have a diverse you know looking Church if

[00:55:46] you’re in you know Atlanta’s parts of Atlanta Georgia you’re not gonna have very so I get that but but I also I also

[00:55:52] think that we actually have to be intentional about making you know like about having what sameness of purpose

[00:55:59] not saying as a person I’m not saying that all churches have to be like this diverse you know but sameness of purpose

[00:56:05] that’s the thing and I think that that’s where it where we’ve missed the mark and like I said politically you know look

[00:56:11] you know this is why I see it man I vote based on how I just I always pray

[00:56:18] about it and I always bow I don’t vote always a Republican or always Democrat I truly do vote on OK God you know like

[00:56:26] well let me look at what this person stands for what they represent right but here’s the truth of the matter that’s why say for eight years of a Republican

[00:56:32] for eight years of a Democrat like it that’s not gonna change like and I think we as Christians we look too much – to

[00:56:39] our party as opposed to saying you know what man like it says I’m even seen in

[00:56:45] the comments some people comment about different things like which is cool right but but but again please show me

[00:56:50] the proof and I think this is the thing I was always taught I was taught to spot someone who one of my professors and for

[00:56:56] those who I’m sorry for going on wrong but one of my professors at Santa Barbara I’m an applied math major all right um where the CSV and CSV emphasis

[00:57:04] one of my professors said this because I took the modeling class he says if someone if you can we all have a model

[00:57:11] right like you have a mathematical model you have a model for your arguments right or for your or your position right

[00:57:17] yeah I said this and I think so true if if you can prove your assumptions if your assumptions are airtight then no

[00:57:24] one can mess with your model right yes our assumptions if your assumption that you can prove each one of your

[00:57:29] assumptions then and show that that they’re airtight no one can argue with your model well here’s the thing

[00:57:36] all right if we’re making the assumption that policy ultimately is gonna fix this thing when policy has not fixed it yet

[00:57:43] then and I can give you countered so for example you even said hey you know single-parent family um you know a kid

[00:57:51] born out of wedlock all right like that that leads to certain things well I can show you plenty of kids I can give you

[00:57:57] Catering’s out in math and you have a theory of proof right if I can give you a counter example then you need to go

[00:58:02] back and check that that theory right not if it’s anecdotal yeah but but but again if I can show you a number of a

[00:58:08] number of different different kids who come from single-parent homes who have gone on to get their PhDs who become

[00:58:14] like upstanding citizens who love Christ then okay tell me what do you what do you what do you do with those well you

[00:58:21] don’t you don’t generalize rise by anomalies right so for example look look what I love it wait wait let me wait let

[00:58:27] me finish let me finish if I run a red light if I run a red light and I don’t get yet here it doesn’t mean that running red

[00:58:32] lights is a good thing so we don’t say it we don’t say a kid that was successful because even though he had a

[00:58:38] single-parent family we’re all that’s awesome we praise God for that but we

[00:58:43] don’t say that then single parenthood is therefore fine it’s not the staff the social science

[00:58:49] about families is overwhelming they crystal clear it’s acknowledged on both sides of the aisles the social science

[00:58:55] is crystal clear that pick kids raised by a mother and father are far better

[00:59:01] off I agree I agree with that uh and again I am NOT all you got company so any policy then if you agree with me

[00:59:07] with that then any policy that would that would discourage the union of a man and a woman and then them staying

[00:59:14] together and raising their children together any policy that would create a conflict of interest in that would

[00:59:21] thereby be a bad policy because it was actually pushing people away from God’s plan for their lives I in God’s blessing

[00:59:28] and his Scripture absolutely so so yeah I guess let me finish them off I’ll give you the last word clay I’ll give you the

[00:59:33] last word cuz we’re almost out of time but I’m gonna let you I’m gonna let you say the last word here I would just say

[00:59:39] this I would just say that that it that it is very very difficult to take my

[00:59:45] Christianity and try to keep it stopped at the government door what I mean is we

[00:59:52] live in a country where we are constantly our government is set up in a

[00:59:58] way we’re constantly integrating what we believe with the laws because of the

[01:00:03] fact that we live in a democratic republic and so because that’s the case I literally my Christianity ma I’m not

[01:00:10] trusting in it in a government official to to save people’s lives I’m trusting in the Word of God which I

[01:00:18] take and live out and then I it goes right out of my very being into my

[01:00:24] opinions regarding policy and my voting and that is what changes dramatically

[01:00:31] people’s lives it’s not they they don’t save me it’s Jesus Christ through me and

[01:00:37] you and the church that influence a church is the conscience of the government that’s what it is but that is

[01:00:42] but that is the it is the entire church and I think that so one thing is just just real quick cuz I’m gonna get back

[01:00:47] to that but but like statistically the number of blacks that have been that have been you know completing their

[01:00:54] degrees and completing their education that has that has like doubled right like if you look at it from 1990 – right

[01:01:01] – to like 1992 – like – in ten name from 2010 to 18 like that’s

[01:01:06] doubling so it’s something like some like up to upwards of like forty percent I want to say alright and so so check me

[01:01:12] on that okay all right but but so so now since 1992 we’ve had a number of

[01:01:17] different change we have changes in policy and changes in you know like I’m because we had Republican in office for

[01:01:23] for a year we have Democrat in office for a year so what I’m saying is is but we look at it and we say okay why is it

[01:01:30] that race and again racial reconciliation is not happening because

[01:01:35] that’s ultimately where all these conversations stem from right why is it is it policy is policy the reason that

[01:01:41] that’s not happening no it is not policy because even you even I guess a you even look at uh

[01:01:47] I can you know if you go and you look there and I hate I don’t want to say but you look at a number of black people

[01:01:53] that you know and this is where the conversation was born out it right like a lot of the stuff that sudden you look at black people that are being shot like

[01:01:59] some of them came from to pay of families you know what I’m saying so like it so that that and that that’s why

[01:02:05] I say when when we as black people go out into the world like like that that

[01:02:12] is a moot point because we are not seeing at as the same like in terms of

[01:02:17] in terms of not and I’m not talking about the church but I’m saying in terms of the world at large and I don’t think a policy will change it but I will say

[01:02:23] you know I was and I think we’re saying the same thing personal accountability is one right that that’s the first kind

[01:02:30] of level you know you know of accountability then it’s the family which which we both agree father gotta

[01:02:35] have father’s right but then we go up to the church right and this is where we stop because the fourth level is civil leaders right

[01:02:42] the fourth level is government but the church in and of itself there is no right like I’m just being honest like

[01:02:48] and this is why I said you know Sunday’s most segregated day of the year it’s just it’s just real it’s what it is

[01:02:54] right and why is it though why is that because again we as the church are called to influence government we and we

[01:03:01] influence government but why can’t work do that why and I always turn if the

[01:03:10] truth sets us free right and we have all of these churches we got churches everywhere you see them saying

[01:03:17] enemy that are supposed to be preaching the gospel so let’s say we will talk to the churches that are really preaching

[01:03:22] the gospel right yeah if the truth truly sets us free and all of these years from

[01:03:29] a racial reconciliation standpoint we are still not free we’re still not unified then one of two things is true

[01:03:37] either the truth isn’t isn’t isn’t being taught or the truth doesn’t set us free and so I would I would beg to say that

[01:03:45] that starts from the pulpit on Sundays you see what I’m saying right like every great movement you would agree all right

[01:03:52] as it relates to like as it relates to society started with the church but I just think we’re at a point like where

[01:03:58] there’s so much racial discord that that truth be told until that until that’s all like we can

[01:04:04] talk policy all day men you know I’m saying like so that gets all I don’t see

[01:04:10] us like we just don’t see it I don’t see us being able to make the change that we really want to make because you know because that’s that’s I mean look MLK a

[01:04:18] lot of people quote in my okay but Margaret the King I mean everything started in the church

[01:04:23] yeah right and then and then we had other we have the whites who jumped on board right not necessarily say you know

[01:04:29] but they jumped on board then changed sorry coming and I want to make this last point Kevin and I’m gonna let you go me I mean I don’t wanna I don’t want

[01:04:35] to keep you but but I would say I could talk about this all day we’re gonna

[01:04:46] we’re gonna have a number to have this week we got to yeah but but but I would

[01:04:52] say this like and this is what I said on on on on our courageous conversations and and I know that and I don’t ever

[01:04:58] want you know any of your listeners think that like I said my wife is have white hat black right I mean when I go to Ashland we walked in this church I

[01:05:05] was only black dude in there right is like I like I don’t want anyone to feel like like look my kids gonna be what

[01:05:11] worth what all right but I’m a person who like like I said man I God’s giving

[01:05:17] me a love everyone but I would say this and this is to my to my white brothers and sisters in Christ who are listening um

[01:05:24] black people need you like the black black people to hold this issue of racism you can’t be silent like we we

[01:05:32] can’t be silent about but I’ll say specific to my white brother sisters in Christ we need you to step up because

[01:05:37] here’s why silence the conversation of racism that

[01:05:43] ultimately if we were solved to lead to reconciliation of the body of Christ which Satan does not want which

[01:05:49] ultimately they could lead to real change at the decibel level right in silence there is distrust but in silence

[01:05:57] there are others in society who do step up and and speak about and announcing as

[01:06:04] much as they denounce other things right as much as our white brothers and sisters of Christ announced the sanctity

[01:06:10] of life and and the sanctity of marriage and you know missions and persecution of Christians right we need you too we need

[01:06:17] you to denounce racism because when that conversation gets hijacked all right then the people that are speaking up

[01:06:24] they have agendas attached you see what I’m saying yeah there’s a vacuum that is that there’s a vacuum that is created

[01:06:30] when our white brothers and sisters in Christ don’t speak up and speak out and when that vacuum that vacuum is being

[01:06:36] filled by the wrong people but people who could care less about Christ and they got agendas and for like I said for

[01:06:44] black people man like that’s that’s probably been one of the biggest issues and I thank God like I said for our courageous conversations because this is

[01:06:50] something that’s being brought up and we’re getting a chance to address it and say yeah I love that well hey clay I just really want to

[01:06:56] thank you for coming on today PR skills academy.com if you guys want to check it check it out dr skills Academy com hey

[01:07:03] give a shout-out to your wife twofer for her with Caitlin Kate clay designs so my wife is a graphic design artist you got

[01:07:11] to go check it out if you ever need anything you know in terms of graphics and stuff sweet person awesome person does a great job so like I said she does

[01:07:18] for tog Rafi as well so that’s awesome great shut up channel to my supporting women oh absolutely clave man it’s been

[01:07:25] a big blessing having you on and I’m serious when I say we’re gonna have a number two because there’s no I feel

[01:07:31] like there’s still a lot to talk about so that’s great please pray for me and

[01:07:38] I’ll be praying for you and and I love you and I love your message so god bless you bro me love you too man y’all take

[01:07:43] care okay signing off

[01:07:53] you