Equality for the Unborn or Equality for nobody – Seth Gruber

[00:00:01] welcome to educate for life i’m your host kevin conover and we are broadcasting from the k

[00:00:06] praise studios down here in southern california am 1210 as well as fm 106.1

[00:00:13] in north county we’re all over youtube and everywhere else and we are broadcasting live on facebook

[00:00:18] right now at our facebook page educate4life and um you know uh if you’ve been following what’s

[00:00:24] happening with kovid california just shut down again governor newsom asked us to shut down

[00:00:31] all uh businesses although you can give haircuts outside i’ve heard so maybe uh the haircutting places are all

[00:00:37] doing their business outside now i don’t know but um interestingly i wanted to read

[00:00:42] this this was a back in i believe uh march 18th it says here at a white house task force

[00:00:49] press briefing on march 18th the centers for medicare and medicaid services announced that all elective

[00:00:54] non-essential medical surgical and dental procedures be delayed during the covid19 outbreak

[00:01:00] now interestingly enough regarding the issue of abortion the following states have given abortion

[00:01:06] clinics permission to operate while canceling all other elective non-essential procedures florida

[00:01:12] massachusetts michigan minnesota new jersey new york north carolina virginia and washington

[00:01:18] in addition to the states who have specifically granted abortion clinics the freedom to continue basically killing unborn children many

[00:01:27] more do not clarify whether abortion will be permitted under the procedure bans so essentially

[00:01:32] they’re giving permission by not saying anything these states include alaska arizona california colorado delaware georgia

[00:01:38] hawaii illinois indiana kansas maine pennsylvania vermont and washington dc and west virginia

[00:01:44] so uh this is incredibly hypocritical um what we have here going on is that these

[00:01:49] states are are saying abortion is essential which is absolutely silly it should be illegal

[00:01:55] and yet this is continues to go on my guest today is seth gruber and sethgruber.com you can check him out

[00:02:02] there he is the son of a pregnancy resource center director and started speaking on

[00:02:07] the issue of um defending the lives of the unborn at the age of 19. seth thanks for being

[00:02:15] here today yeah kevin thanks for having me on and you’re broadcasting down here also in southern california you’ve got a regular

[00:02:20] uh program that you’re putting out every day that’s right it’s called unaborted with seth gruber and it airs uh sunday evenings at 6 30 p.m on k

[00:02:27] praise and then the full program available on my podcast yeah and that’s amazing you’ve been doing this for since the age of 19.

[00:02:33] um you know i have a lot of questions to ask you you know one of them being you know do you ever get attacked for

[00:02:39] being a you know in our culture today our pc culture our cancer culture you’re a white male and you’re speaking

[00:02:45] on um you know why women shouldn’t be getting abortions that’s right does that ever come against you right i’m a white cisgender and you make

[00:02:52] it worse christian male yeah uh so i don’t check any you’re the bottom of the barrel yeah that’s right

[00:02:58] yeah i don’t check any of the uh leftist uh you know check boxes yeah you are the victim i’m

[00:03:03] enemy number one yeah that’s right yeah uh yeah of course i get that all the time you know luckily god built me to be

[00:03:08] able to handle those kind of attacks and then i just you know i gently remind my critics that they’re sexists because

[00:03:14] they’re discounting my arguments and my position based off of my genitalia and if i did that to them

[00:03:19] we would have a moral upheaval so yeah and isn’t that the the uh constant battle we’re facing is

[00:03:25] showing somebody else why they’re being hypocritical as they condemn our particular views

[00:03:30] right well you were just talking about that with how the governments and state governments have treated the lockdown orders while giving a free

[00:03:38] pass to abortion clinics who apparently don’t have to shut down and don’t have to

[00:03:43] stop their elective surgeries to protect the vulnerable or to protect the spread

[00:03:48] of yeah and the conclusion we draw here is what abortion is not about healthcare because

[00:03:54] if it was you would be consistently treating it like every other form of surgery and holding them

[00:04:00] to the same standards as well as to the same regulations that you’re imposing on every other form of surgery

[00:04:05] during you know these draconian policies and lockdown absolutely and if it’s not about health care then what is it about

[00:04:11] so abortion fits into the larger issue of human equality right that’s ultimately what we’re talking about

[00:04:17] we’re not talking about healthcare we’re not talking about privacy we’re not talking about women’s rights or feminism or

[00:04:22] women need abortion to be on an equal playing field with men so they’re not burdened by that you know that annoying

[00:04:28] reproductive system that god built into their system that would prevent them from attaining the same level of success in the

[00:04:34] workplace and the same level of income as a man it’s not about any of that it’s about the simple question of who counts

[00:04:39] as one of us and we’ve been having this conversation for millennia haven’t we this is not the first time

[00:04:45] our country has been divided on the question are all humans persons yeah and who

[00:04:51] counts as one of us kevin we had a civil war over this question yeah half the country said no all humans are

[00:04:58] persons and skin color is an arbitrary measure by which to deny someone rights of

[00:05:03] personhood and now the pro-abortion movement and woke progressives

[00:05:08] treat the unborn child in the same way that the democratic party treated african americans which is to

[00:05:14] come up with arbitrary standards for personhood and human equality and if you don’t meet their

[00:05:20] arbitrary contrived standards or check boxes that you have to meet to be considered a person in the eyes of

[00:05:26] the democratic party then you’re not a person and we can dismember you through point of birth fund it with your tax dollars and call it reproductive health

[00:05:32] care yeah so that’s really what we’re talking about who counts as one of us and are all humans person

[00:05:37] that’s awesome seth gruber sethgruber.com he also worked with life training

[00:05:43] institute and what he’s really doing is trying to make it very clear

[00:05:48] the arguments for why these children that are not born yet need to be able to have life and he’s

[00:05:56] trying to make those arguments uh normal and well-known right and so

[00:06:01] seth before we get because i want to talk i want our listeners to hear some of these discussions because i think you’re very articulate you’re you’re

[00:06:07] you have a great uh unique ability to be able to communicate effectively on these issues so but before we get into that tell us

[00:06:14] um what is life training institute how did you get involved with them and and what is the mission there what are you trying to achieve yeah life training

[00:06:20] institute is a national pro-life organization with a small team of elite pro-life speakers scattered throughout

[00:06:26] the country for strategic purposes primarily to reach young people yeah to reach students in schools around

[00:06:33] the country and we were launched in 2004 by scott klusendorf who came from stand to reason

[00:06:38] which for the listeners of your show who are into christian worldview and apologetic yeah i mean there is no bigger name i just had greg cochle on the show just

[00:06:45] a little while ago and it’s right it was an amazing discussion he’s just very very sharp and quick and well

[00:06:51] practiced and his book is a seminal it’s incredible right yeah and so scott klustendorf actually

[00:06:56] co-wrote um a whole series with great cocoa called making abortion unthinkable

[00:07:03] in the early 2000s and this sort of became the first blueprint for what would become pro-life apologetics

[00:07:08] nobody had ever really talked about that before and so scott left standard reason in 2003 or four to start life training

[00:07:14] institute which functions like a microcosm of standard reason but focused only on abortion

[00:07:19] equipping training and discipling christian leaders lay people parents and young people which is our big focus to

[00:07:25] make a gracious and persuasive defense of their pro-life beliefs in the public square and the reason why this is

[00:07:31] important kevin and this is the reason i want to tell your listeners too is most people who are pro-life

[00:07:37] and they’re maybe they’re they’re predisposed to be pro-life because they’re a christian sure if they’re challenged by a pro-choice friend family member or

[00:07:42] co-worker with arguments against the pro-life position many of them will not know what to say yeah and

[00:07:48] they’ll have the sort of moral reflex that that argument feels wrong yeah um

[00:07:53] but they’re not able to articulate why and give a compelling defense of the pro-life position in the

[00:08:00] face of opposition and we know that that is the number one problem amongst christians who just identify with the

[00:08:06] pro-life label they actually don’t know how to engage yes and so they’re they shrink back in silence out of fear because they don’t

[00:08:13] know what to say so we’re empowering the next generation giving them the tools of thought they need to defend life

[00:08:18] while also challenging pro-choice students to reconsider their position by examining evidence that they haven’t

[00:08:25] seen or heard before i love it love love your uh god with all your heart mind and soul right so

[00:08:31] so um you know i’m we’re going to get into these arguments because i feel like

[00:08:36] it’s really important for our listeners i’ve as a teacher as a 12th grade bible teacher we cover this

[00:08:42] uh the abortion unit we go over this and i have found it’s ranked as uh you know one or two

[00:08:48] each year because i asked my students what did you find the most helpful or the most interesting or something that you felt

[00:08:54] to be more the most useful and uh this issue ranks very high for them

[00:09:00] and i think it’s because it’s something that they’re bumping into frequently um what through the relationships um

[00:09:07] you know lord willing not in our school but i know every once in a while at a christian school this does happen

[00:09:13] but also with their friends outside of the christian school environment um i know that some of our high schools

[00:09:19] actually now have teen centers um i believe one of our east county schools has over 150 young

[00:09:26] moms going to school with a daycare so there are there are kids

[00:09:32] 150 kids in a daycare so that these teen moms can go to school and that’s not

[00:09:37] something you would ever have seen in the past but a lot and and thank god that those babies weren’t aborted but

[00:09:43] still it’s a big issue and a lot of those kids aren’t showing up in those daycares because of the fact that they

[00:09:49] are being aborted that’s right and so um when we come back stay stay with us because i’m gonna actually talk to seth

[00:09:56] about some of the big arguments that come up that people have struggled to answer and we’re gonna get some of those answers for you so that you can become

[00:10:03] better equipped to be able to communicate like he said compassionately and intelligently about such a critical

[00:10:10] issue that we’re dealing with right now we’ll be right back

[00:10:18] [Music]

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[00:10:48] of our faith it is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn to be defenders of your faith through kevin’s radio show and through his

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[00:12:16] hey thanks for listening today this is educate for life i’m your host kevin conover my website’s educate4life.org

[00:12:22] and i’ve got all kinds of resources up for you uh there we’ve got a full curriculum you know san

[00:12:29] diego and uh los angeles counties just announced that they are not opening schools uh for live classes mind blowing i

[00:12:36] cannot believe that they’re doing this i think this is absolutely disastrous and uh just

[00:12:43] beyond the pale ridiculous it just i i just am blown away but the good news is

[00:12:49] there’s several good news uh here is that as christian unified is still open and we are starting school august

[00:12:54] 18th so we are getting all kinds of people calling up saying hey we are interested we want our kids to have be

[00:12:59] able to interact so um check out christianunified.org please check it out

[00:13:05] you will not be disappointed it is an incredible school where god is honored and lifted up and the values that you

[00:13:11] hold dear christian values um are espoused and nurtured and they’re given a firm foundation uh

[00:13:18] in their walk with jesus christ and uh if you’re a grandparent and you have a grandchild that that uh needs

[00:13:23] support um consider financially supporting them by helping them go to a uh helping them go to a christian

[00:13:30] school that’s a great opportunity also um uh one other thing is is that if you are not

[00:13:36] going to be able to go to a christian school my website provides you a curriculum to teach your kids the bible um and you can check that

[00:13:43] out educate4life.org this is a great opportunity to look into adding that as a part of your kids education

[00:13:49] while they’re continuing to go to online public school so please check that out my guest today is

[00:13:55] seth gruber and he is a pro-life speaker he argues in defense of the unborn child

[00:14:01] and this is a part of a biblical world view and i i wanted to run this by you seth because

[00:14:06] you said that when when you were talking earlier you were you said that people are arbitrarily

[00:14:12] um making these decisions about life and so forth and you know you’re a

[00:14:18] christian i’m a christian is it possible for somebody to be pro-life who is not a bible-believing christian

[00:14:25] or a somebody who believes in god is that still possible for someone to be pro-life and not identify with the

[00:14:32] christian worldview yeah yeah absolutely yeah in fact we work with organizations that are you know strictly atheist

[00:14:40] in their worldview yeah but are pro-life activists not just not just pro-life by label attitudinally opposed to abortion

[00:14:47] but are activists there’s a group called atheists for life there’s a group called democrats for life now i’m not here to say if you’re a democrat you’re not a

[00:14:53] christian but by and large now today’s democratic party yeah how radical and far to the left they’ve

[00:14:58] gone oh yeah they’re they’re not born again believers um and there and many of them who run that organization are atheists as well

[00:15:05] and they’re they’re pro-life activists there’s a group in san francisco probably the worst place to be a pro-life

[00:15:11] activist called pro-life san francisco and i’m gonna be talking with some of the people from over there on my podcast

[00:15:16] in the next couple weeks and uh the director is an atheist uh democrat uh vegan uh pro-lgbtq

[00:15:24] pro-life activist wow that is unusual so i mean i mean yes because it’s not

[00:15:31] you it’s not strictly about the christian worldview now the christian worldview i’m going to argue provides the best moral foundation

[00:15:39] yeah on which to make sense of of objective truth yeah and certainly the pro-life position

[00:15:45] and i would even love to have you know conversations with people who are atheist and pro-life

[00:15:50] and just have friendly conversations about how do you ground objective morality yeah where does this sense come from so we

[00:15:56] can have those deeper conversations i think that they need to have a more firm grounding for their players but the point is they’re recognizing the

[00:16:03] self-evident nature of the pro-life position because the science of embryology is so clear okay and so that’s what i wanted

[00:16:09] to ask you about and what i want our listeners to hear from you is you said it’s a self-evident truth the self-evident truth from embryology

[00:16:15] what do you mean by that how do i communicate with somebody who isn’t necessarily a bible-believing

[00:16:20] christian or isn’t somebody who’s solid in their faith and and who’s saying you know what um i think it’s just going to be better off

[00:16:26] here if i get rid of this baby um regardless how do you communicate with them about

[00:16:33] it or or from a public policy uh stance if you’re dealing with people across the aisle who aren’t

[00:16:39] who don’t hold the same values you do what is that argument that you’re talking about there that’s self-evident

[00:16:44] yeah that’s right that’s a really good question and as i mentioned on the first part of our program the issue of abortion fits

[00:16:49] into the larger issue of human equality who counts as one of us a lot of pro-lifers they like

[00:16:55] to they like to protest abortion by framing the debate in terms of the

[00:17:02] consequences for the mother you’re gonna regret this right your your chances of alcoholism or

[00:17:09] being predisposed to certain or suicide ideation or whatever it might increase because of

[00:17:14] your abortion yeah now all of that is true yeah but that is not why abortion is wrong and i i i have a real bone to

[00:17:21] pick with pro-lifers who ground their opposition to abortion yeah from that framework that’s like saying like like

[00:17:28] beating your slave you don’t want to do that because you might regret it hmm that doesn’t

[00:17:34] sound right yeah you’re talking about that yeah that’s a human being it has it has no uh recognition of the the person that’s

[00:17:40] suffering that’s right and and and and when we do that you know what we do kevin we play into the hands of the pro-abortion

[00:17:49] movement whose entire narrative and strategy is built on filtering out of sight

[00:17:57] any recognition of a separate human being bearing the injuries of choice they have

[00:18:03] to filter out any recognition of that child that’s why bill clinton vetoed the partial birth abortion ban act

[00:18:10] which said hey can we just agree can we have a bipartisan agreement that if a child is 75

[00:18:15] way delivered out of the birth canal with its legs flailing around but the the shoulders and head are

[00:18:21] inserted in the birth canal still can we agree to not insert scissors into the back of their neck and suck their

[00:18:27] brains out yeah and he vetoed that bill why because if you recognize the reality and presence of a

[00:18:33] separate human being whose existence somehow matters then you’ve you’ve destroyed the entire

[00:18:41] foundation on which the pro-choice worldview is built which is that there is no other human being there is no one else whose

[00:18:47] existence matters it’s just her her body her choice her life her lived experience so

[00:18:53] so you know bringing this up it seems to me that what people are doing i mean it’s obvious it’s intuitive it’s

[00:18:59] scientific it’s logical it’s common sense that that is a separate human being so my question for you in

[00:19:07] that regard is it almost feels like we’re not doing battle with logic anymore what

[00:19:13] we’re doing is it’s just right versus wrong that’s right um and so how do you how do you

[00:19:20] win a war when the people are no longer interested in hearing uh common sense or

[00:19:26] in listening to science or listening to logic um what what is the

[00:19:31] and it seems like we’re making progress honestly i feel like we’re making progress um what what is the next step here in

[00:19:38] this battle there there are so many battlefronts in the war yeah of the pro the abortion wars right

[00:19:44] this is a war david and the whole uh that’s right the yeah there’s there’s so many different

[00:19:49] battlefronts yeah we need to fight on yeah and some of them are cultural some of them are political and some of them are religious

[00:19:55] yeah because you know very popular saying right uh that that uh politics is downstream

[00:20:02] from culture um but culture is also downstream from religion the breakdown of the christian worldview

[00:20:09] in america has led to a more broken culture because people have abandoned the very ideas of

[00:20:15] objective truth that made the most sense yeah of pro-life laws and pro-family and and the institution

[00:20:23] of marriage so as as religion broke down culture broke down and now we’re seeing

[00:20:28] the consequences of bad ideas that were watered in the culture yeah uh blossoming in our politics yeah

[00:20:35] so there’s a lot of battlefronts we need to fight on yeah but you’re right a lot of people are not interested in the in the reality of the matter that

[00:20:43] from the moment of conception there’s a distinct living and whole human being yeah because the law of biogenesis strictly

[00:20:50] states that all living things reproduce after their own kind yes so if cats can only create cats

[00:20:56] then a mother and father can only create someone of their same uh you know nature another human being

[00:21:03] yeah so um that’s that all again is all logical and everything so

[00:21:09] what do you see as your objective um when you’re speaking and you’re talking on university campuses

[00:21:15] or you’re debating or you’re speaking at high schools or whatever the case is what is it you’re trying to achieve is

[00:21:21] it that these young people are in a place where they haven’t made a decision about it they’re uninformed

[00:21:26] about it and what you’re trying to do is reach the people that are uninformed to make them aware so that they can make a good decision is that the goal right there’s

[00:21:33] a lot of yeah there’s a lot of what we do they fit into three main camps our our goals are to

[00:21:38] equip pro-life students who are already pro-life with the tools of thought they need

[00:21:43] to be a gracious and persuasive voice for the unborn um we we want to empower them with the

[00:21:50] information and knowledge necessary to make a courageous stand for life so that when they’re confronted with

[00:21:56] evil ideas they won’t shrink back in silence secondly we want to challenge pro-choice students and adults as well

[00:22:01] to reconsider their position by examining evidence they haven’t seen or heard before why is that important

[00:22:06] because kevin most pro-choice individuals have never had a intelligent lengthy conversation with

[00:22:12] a pro-life individual who knows exactly what they believe in why they believe it and can articulate why pro-lifers believe what they believe

[00:22:19] yeah so they’re being inculcated with pro-abortion ideas from a pro-abortion culture and media

[00:22:24] and those are the ideas that are primarily shaping their view of abortion but when students see the reality of

[00:22:30] abortion of the unborn child dismembered and hear the arguments from science and from philosophy for the pro-life

[00:22:36] position many of them change their mind many people are on the fence and they’re persuaded by pro-life ideas

[00:22:42] but they’re also struggle with some of those pro-choice arguments and so they’re being torn both ways we come in and we bring moral and spiritual

[00:22:49] clarity on an issue that very few people are bringing clarity to and when that clarity is established

[00:22:54] many people become more courageous many other people change their minds and be careful and

[00:23:00] lastly we we offer the gospel of jesus christ to students who have been injured and

[00:23:05] wounded by abortion who have arranged the death of their children and remind them that jesus is just as eager to forgive the sin of

[00:23:12] abortion as any other sin amen and god wants to create beauty from your ashes and use

[00:23:19] you to now help where you used to hurt that’s awesome those are our goals praise god that’s fantastic my guest today is seth

[00:23:25] gruber sethgruber.com you can check them out and if you need somebody who’s able to communicate effectively on this issue

[00:23:31] which uh we just need to get this message out more and more because we are gaining ground and we’ll talk about that when we come back how is the culture

[00:23:38] changing from 1973 roe versus wade to where we are today what are the positive uh things that are

[00:23:44] happening in our culture um that are moving us in a good direction so stay with us we’re gonna be right back

[00:23:50] [Music]

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[00:25:49] [Music] hey thanks for being with us here on

[00:25:55] this thursday we are live on facebook and we’re also going to be posting this if you didn’t

[00:26:01] get to hear the whole message we’re going to be posting this on youtube our website and a variety of other social media

[00:26:07] platforms we are broadcasting also locally down here in southern california on the radio k

[00:26:13] praise 12 10am as well as fm 106.1 in north county and uh so you have all kinds of places

[00:26:19] to hear this my guest today is seth gruber um and again my my name is kevin conover i’m with educate for life that’s my

[00:26:25] ministry and uh you can check out all that we offer on educate4life.org seth sethgruber.com if you want to get a

[00:26:32] very very compelling intelligent compassionate uh speaker on the issue of defending the life of the

[00:26:39] unborn seth i wanted to talk to you about you know our our culture right now seems primed for

[00:26:45] this discussion because everywhere right now with the the huge um black lives matter uh movement that

[00:26:53] popped into existence uh and all the riots and the protesting this is all a fight over equality um

[00:27:01] right people are saying now we we know that uh blm actually has some undercurrents that are very very

[00:27:06] dangerous to put it like uh yeah to put it lightly but regardless for a lot of people this is

[00:27:11] about equality and so it’s interesting i’ve seen these um social media uh influencers out on the street talking

[00:27:18] to people and this the person will say say black lives matter and the other person will say unborn black lives

[00:27:25] matter and i just thought whoa that’s that’s uh pretty interesting there where this is all going

[00:27:30] right and can you um connect the dots for us between what’s happening with the whole uh you

[00:27:36] know equality movement here and how that relates to the issue of the pro-life movement right yeah absolutely really good

[00:27:43] question kevin our country is is currently being torn apart by two different visions of america

[00:27:49] right and and some of these people are very politically motivated yeah to tear down the institutions of america

[00:27:55] the ironic part is that the institution and the ideas that created this republic

[00:28:00] provide the best moral foundation on which to enshrine human equality

[00:28:07] in law to protect the right to life liberty and property yeah and yet these the very

[00:28:14] people who were create claiming that there’s systemic racism and that we’re a systemically evil country from our inception

[00:28:20] yeah are are just are attacking a country that is the best position whose ideas are the best position their

[00:28:26] philosophical foundation to accomplish the goals that they want to accomplish which is equality for all people that’s

[00:28:32] right and we could get into a lot of you know whether you know whether some of these claims being made

[00:28:38] by organizations like black lives matter are even true we probably don’t have the time to get into all of that but the the basic claim they’re making right is

[00:28:45] that is that african-american individuals human beings are being discriminated against targeted

[00:28:51] disproportionately and that this is a reflection of systemic racism not of personal choices

[00:28:57] but of people who are targeting them simply because they are black right so let’s just let’s just assume

[00:29:03] that right let’s say okay grant your argument that that’s true that is evil that would be wrong

[00:29:08] of course yeah and the whole idea that’s why many people don’t like the saying black lives matter because

[00:29:14] the insinuation is that there’s a whole bunch of people out there in america who don’t think black lives matter so therefore you need to say it yeah

[00:29:20] very few people think that black lives don’t matter most people would say of course black lives matter because all lives matter and we’re

[00:29:26] valuable not based on the color of our skin but our human nature right yeah so

[00:29:32] racism becomes wrong and evil and a particular disgusting form of evil

[00:29:38] because it mistreats discriminates against or targets individuals based on

[00:29:44] capacities traits characteristics that they have no control over we can’t control our skin color we can’t

[00:29:50] control our gender we can’t control our parents so mistreating people based on things that they have no control over

[00:29:57] is wrong yeah here’s where the bridge it happens between our cultural moment in the issue

[00:30:03] of abortion yeah and and for those of you listening i really want you to hear this point that he’s going to make because this is an apologetics argument

[00:30:10] and we are in a culture right now that’s primed to have this discussion they’re open to having it in a way that

[00:30:16] probably they haven’t been open in the past so yeah seth sorry to interrupt you there that’s right no so this is what i

[00:30:22] would tell someone who’s a black lives matter supporter or someone even in the organization which by the way is rapidly pro-abortion and we’ll get to why that’s

[00:30:28] ironic is is that if if racism is evil and wrong and i agree with you that it is because it targets and mistreats people

[00:30:35] based off traits and characteristics they have no control over then how can you condone abortion

[00:30:41] which denies the unborn child personhood and a right to life based on characteristic and traits that

[00:30:47] the human in the womb has no control over and now now this now now we’re transitioning to the arguments

[00:30:54] that the pro-abortion movement uses to defend abortion on demand their arguments typically by the way

[00:31:01] grant the pro-life premise that it’s a human being in the womb that is biological human interest if you don’t if you say that

[00:31:07] it’s not a human you frankly you just look stupid today in 2020. yeah the the embryological and biological evidence is so overwhelming

[00:31:14] that you have massive pro-abortion activists and philosophers and heads of organizations saying yeah we know it’s a

[00:31:19] human because its parents are human so it’s biologically human but it doesn’t matter it’s not a person

[00:31:26] by the way this is the same thing that racist said about blacks that they were they were biologically human but they

[00:31:31] weren’t persons and so now how would you find persons right exactly so what’s a person the pro-life position

[00:31:37] is that all humans are persons those terms should be used interchangeably human person person

[00:31:42] human yeah it’s only politically motivated actors who want to create a a camp of

[00:31:49] humans and a camp of persons so you can have non-human persons yeah

[00:31:55] and for the democratic party blacks used to be an example of human non-persons

[00:32:00] coincidentally today’s democratic party also believes that there’s a whole other set of human non-persons

[00:32:06] namely unborn children so they say we can kill the unborn because they’re not persons why are they not persons

[00:32:11] pro-abort black lives matter who’s pro-abortion why are the unborn not persons well and then they’re going to give you

[00:32:17] differences between the unborn and the born person and those will be differences that will

[00:32:22] be used to justify killing the unborn here’s the house and these are arbitrary that’s right here’s the catch the

[00:32:28] unborn differs from us in the same ways that we differ from one another so the

[00:32:34] pro-abort will say something like this the unborn child is smaller less developed located somewhere else

[00:32:40] and more dependent those are the four differences the pro-abortion movement uses to deny personhood to the unborn but we differ

[00:32:47] according to our size we differ according to our level of development we differ according to our

[00:32:53] location and we differ according to our degree of dependency right diabetics are more dependent than you

[00:33:01] and i are people on life support are more dependent people are dependent on heart pacemakers they’re more dependent oh and

[00:33:07] by the way what happens if you leave an infant in the crib and do nothing oh yeah they die so they’re still dependent so

[00:33:13] notice the the unborn differs from us in the same ways that we differ from one another which makes

[00:33:18] the differences that the pro-abortion movement uses to dehumanize the unborn ultimately arbitrary

[00:33:25] yeah because any argument offered in defense of killing the unborn could adequately be offered in defense

[00:33:30] of killing any born person as well wow that’s awesome that’s very good and i i’ve studied this a little bit too and

[00:33:37] that’s uh what uh coco called the sled test that’s right yeah size level of development

[00:33:42] environment and degree of dependency that’s right yeah so for those of you listening that’s a very very solid way to be able to

[00:33:50] communicate effectively to those around you about equality right because this is a discussion that comes up all the time

[00:33:56] right now is equality and so um i think that’s a great uh avenue to take

[00:34:01] and i would encourage your listeners to too that if you’re pro-life you are the human equality advocate

[00:34:06] the pro-abortion movement are the opponents of human equality they do not believe in human equality

[00:34:11] they will say they do but they don’t because they have they have already said not all humans

[00:34:17] are persons and if not all humans are persons then you cannot be a human equality advocate you’ve intentionally

[00:34:23] dehumanized a whole subset of human beings and said that we can kill them and

[00:34:28] sanction their death and fund it with our tax dollars because they’re not persons so the pro-life movement in the pro-life

[00:34:35] individual is the human equality advocate now why is the blm movement specifically

[00:34:41] you said the blm movement is a pro-abortion yeah so i i would you know preface what i say

[00:34:48] by saying that the phrase black lives matter obviously can stand apart from the organization black lives matter

[00:34:55] yeah because of course we all believe black lives matter yes but it’s worth pointing out that the organization behind the messaging

[00:35:01] behind the organization is rapidly pro-abortion is rapidly marxist is rapidly

[00:35:09] pro-lgbtq and is opposed to the nuclear family they say this on their website yeah that we stand

[00:35:15] against or want to tear down the western contrived notion of the nuclear family which is ironic because of course black

[00:35:21] america is suffering the most from fatherlessness and now they’re pushing the destruction of the nuclear family which provides the best familial

[00:35:27] environment to improve black america but anyways that’s besides the the topic of abortion yeah but they’re rapidly pro-abortion

[00:35:33] and you knew the corporate giving that was coming after the death of george floyd after the murder of george floyd yeah

[00:35:40] black lives matter got hundreds of millions of dollars of donations wow and so when someone says oh come on

[00:35:46] seth you know black lives matter why are you attacking the organization

[00:35:51] they’re getting hundreds of millions of dollars based on the premise that america is systemically racist

[00:35:56] they’re setting the narrative they’re organizing a lot of the rallies and they hate unborn children in the

[00:36:02] womb they don’t stand for school choice they don’t care about fatherlessness they don’t care about black on black crime

[00:36:08] but ultimately they sanction abortion which is the number one killer of black america today

[00:36:15] okay let’s pause right there seth so we have one more segment left and we’re going to talk about this historically

[00:36:20] we’re going to talk about where planned parenthood started their tax funding and what’s happening currently in the

[00:36:27] courts and so forth in order to try to put an end to this because it’s the height of hypocrisy and

[00:36:33] um really again like seth is saying if you care about equality then you’ve got to in order to be

[00:36:39] consistent you’ve got to care about the unborn if you care about the equality of humanity so stay with us we’ll be right

[00:36:51] [Music] back

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[00:38:45] [Music] hey thanks for being with us today this

[00:38:52] is kevin conover you’re listening to educate for life radio we’re broadcasting in southern california k praise 12 10 am and fm

[00:38:58] 106.1 in north county and having a great time here with my guest seth gruber seth

[00:39:04] is a pro-life advocate he is defending the unborn um you can check him out at sethgruber.com he’s also part of the

[00:39:10] life training institute which is an offshoot of greg cochle’s ministry and uh where

[00:39:16] they’re arguing intelligently uh defending the lives of the the unborn and right now this is an

[00:39:22] equality issue um these young people if you are arguing for equality whether

[00:39:28] it’s for blacks uh people of different races whatever it might be that you cannot

[00:39:34] consistent be consistent in your logic if you are not also arguing for equality for the unborn um and i wanted to talk about this seth

[00:39:41] you know um where do you see us going in this country in regards to like do you feel like we’re going in a good direction

[00:39:47] we’ve got you know uh trump has uh nominated to the supreme court what seem

[00:39:52] to be a bunch of people that are um conservative pro-life advocates um and it almost seems like we’re at a

[00:39:59] different part in history than we’ve ever been since 1973 with more potential to see a positive

[00:40:05] change in this direction than ever before what what do you think what is what do you think the future holds yeah we we

[00:40:10] have the conservatives say christians that we have to fight the culture wars we have to engage in the culture wars

[00:40:16] the left has been fighting the culture wars very effectively very patiently in the long game

[00:40:21] for so long and conservatives have just sort of relied on the republican party to get the right judges into the circuit

[00:40:27] courts or the supreme court to protect our liberties and function as sort of you know a bulwark against the

[00:40:32] left but politics is downstream from culture and the left has been fighting the culture

[00:40:37] wars so effectively for so long while we’ve just sort of been more focused on the political yeah

[00:40:42] wars and so now the politicians are starting to crumble because we haven’t effectively engaged in the culture wars

[00:40:48] well help me out help me out that help our listeners out that what does that mean to engage in the culture what does it mean to fight the culture war as opposed

[00:40:55] to going to the uh you know voting booth and and casting your ballot right

[00:41:00] what does it mean to engage in that yeah it means that we need to infect the institution um with conservative

[00:41:08] ideas and with conservative people who espouse those ideas to persuasively argue for those ideas in all of our different institutions which

[00:41:14] is what the left has done so well right so his hollywood and the left are basically now synonymous terms yeah

[00:41:20] educational institutions our media our politics our entertainment yeah uh and ultimately

[00:41:26] of course the education being the long game that the left has played you know indoctrinating young people

[00:41:31] with bad ideas about america about human equality about justice and now those people are 20 30 40 years old and they’re

[00:41:39] in positions of influence in our country and all they’ve ever heard are the arguments of the left that’s all they

[00:41:44] have right and what pertains to the issue of abortion most of them have never heard you know legitimate persuasive pro-life

[00:41:51] ideas based on the science and based on human equality and you know the evidence of the the

[00:41:57] how conservatives have abandoned the culture wars is quite evident by the way when roe versus wade was decided in 1973

[00:42:04] the decision to legalize abortion through all nine months of pregnancy for any reason or no reason at all we had a concer a republican a

[00:42:11] conservative appointed majority on the supreme court in 1992 with planned parenthood v casey

[00:42:17] which was another huge setback for the pro-life movement when anthony kennedy said at the heart of liberty is the right to

[00:42:23] define your reality and the mystery of human life oh my god a completely subjective

[00:42:28] relativistic argument that should have no place in american jurisprudence and yet he’s espousing this type of

[00:42:34] relativism from the highest court in the land so even when we’ve had the conservative legislative bulwark

[00:42:40] against the left they’ve caved and often embraced some of the most radical leftist ideas

[00:42:46] and it’s only why because we have been fighting purely the political battle i see what you’re saying while the culture has been cranking out

[00:42:54] progressives yeah you know people who espouse basically anti-american ideas and they have committed for decades to

[00:43:00] infecting our institutions which are the ones that set the narrative in which inculcate the next generation with a certain view

[00:43:06] yeah of human flourishing and it’s so crazy because what it seems like even intelligent people even even

[00:43:12] well-meaning intelligent conservatives sometimes don’t understand the basic arguments for

[00:43:17] what it means to uh defend a human life that’s right uh an unborn human life whatever it is

[00:43:23] right and even in the pulpits of the churches a lot of times these uh pastors have grown up

[00:43:29] in public education they’ve grown up in public universities they’ve grown up going to even seminaries that have

[00:43:34] become uh in a sense secularized that’s right and so when they when they get in the pulpit they’re not advocating for the unborn

[00:43:40] either because and i know this is a pro-life speaker i know how silent the pulpit is in america on abortion yeah and how silent are

[00:43:47] christian educational institutions christian colleges and seminaries are yeah this has been an observation of pro-life individuals for a long time is

[00:43:53] that the pro-life movement doesn’t seem to have the church on their side because we don’t have the pastors and christian leaders on our side and we

[00:43:59] don’t have them on our side because the theological institutions in which they were educated did little or nothing to include

[00:44:05] abortion within their theological training to ensure that the next generation of christian leaders who had had influence

[00:44:11] in significant areas held the right ideas about human equality and justice and were prepared to contend for those ideas

[00:44:18] in the public square so the church has gone silent and now we have what is called the the i think the silence of the shepherds

[00:44:25] on the abortion of the lambs all right it’s awful and the and this is the culture war that you’re talking about these this is engaging in

[00:44:31] the culture where when you talk about that that we’re not just leaving it to the politicians we’re not just leaving to the judges we’re actually intelligently making the

[00:44:38] case and those actually influence the politicians they influence the judges that’s right when we are able to speak

[00:44:43] uh truth intelligently that’s right and so you were saying that blm um is uh pro-abortion

[00:44:51] um can you help us out with that why would why would an organization like that when when abortion has negatively impacted

[00:44:57] blacks more than any other racial group why would they be so pro-abortion right no not a great question bizarre and this

[00:45:03] this is the irony and the inverted reality of choice of the left right ultimately the the the left does espouse ideas

[00:45:11] that invert the very sort of common sense reality that most of us hold to yeah for

[00:45:17] example the pro-choice message is that for women to be equal with men they need to have access to abortion but

[00:45:23] the common sense realists would say if human equality exists then human rights have to be granted to all humans

[00:45:30] which would include the unborn so they invert that reality and say no actually actually if you really really think about it yeah for women to have equality

[00:45:38] it must necessitate the legal and moral right to pay a physician to dismember the limbs of their unborn child often a

[00:45:44] great pain to the child for her to be truly equal so they invert these common sense ideas like human equality to mean something

[00:45:50] completely different from human equality in fact something very dangerous that actually attacks the idea of human equality black lives matter

[00:45:57] when they started right after um after the the shooting of um uh floyd no of michael brown oh michael

[00:46:04] brown right hand sorry hands up don’t shoot and then all the testimony said actually he bum rushed the cop tried to remove the gun and shoot the officer

[00:46:10] yeah yeah the black lives matter was launched on the idea that michael brown said hands up don’t shoot he put his hands up

[00:46:15] he said don’t shoot and the cop just shot him and killed him that’s not what happened but black lives matter was launched off of that

[00:46:22] event off of that incident and they used that incident to set the narrative that blacks are being disproportionately

[00:46:28] targeted by white racist cops to exterminate them well ironically there actually is an organization that focuses

[00:46:34] on disproportionately targeting blacks to exterminate them and it’s called planned parenthood it’s called the abortion industry

[00:46:40] which was launched by margaret sanger who was a racist and eugenicist who spoke at kkk rallies

[00:46:45] and who hitler looked to as an example of inculcating the society with eugenics

[00:46:51] ideas and she wrote extensively on how birth control could be used and sold to

[00:46:58] black america as an empowering freeing tool but ultimately she wanted to see less black

[00:47:03] people and she launched something called the negro project and got pastors on black pastors on

[00:47:09] board to help sort of push the idea of birth control uh but really what she wanted was less blacks in america and also less infirm

[00:47:15] or disabled people right that you this idea of eugenics we need to intentionally weed out those that we deem unfit to live

[00:47:20] which is really has an evolutionary foundation yeah of course and so that was the founding of planned parenthood now

[00:47:26] ironically kevin uh margaret sanger was not for abortion from the all the literature

[00:47:31] we have it seems that she was opposed to the idea of abortion but she was a racist and eugenicist and

[00:47:36] planned parenthood adopted those ideas that was that was the ideas that the organization was was launched on and then when they

[00:47:43] adopted abortion as part of their platform which we can talk about the history of the sexual revolution right and how the sexual revolution hijacked the women’s

[00:47:49] movement to become one and the same um when they adopted abortion is is now integral to what planned parenthood is

[00:47:55] that became increasingly disastrous for black america so u.s census bureau reports that about

[00:48:02] 13.4 percent of the american public are african-americans right so split that half and half between men and women so call it you know

[00:48:08] six and a half percent or whatever um six point seven now not all of not six point seven percent

[00:48:14] of of of america would be black women are all of them of child bearing age no so let’s cut it in half again

[00:48:20] yeah so you’re talking like a little over three percent of american women obtaining

[00:48:27] over 40 around 40 38 40 of the annual abortions whoa and planned

[00:48:33] parenthood knows this they know that black america obtains a disproportionate amount of abortions so

[00:48:39] they tailor yeah planned parenthood tailors their business practices and the geographical locations of their

[00:48:45] clinics to reflect that knowledge to increase their profits there was a study by protecting black life that found that 79

[00:48:52] of planned parenthood surgical abortion facilities are located within walking distance of

[00:48:58] african-american communities so they put their death camps in a strategic location to make

[00:49:04] the importation and extermination of unwanted black babies as efficient as possible

[00:49:09] fulfilling the dream of margaret sanger of less black people and because of abortion and the way that white racists who

[00:49:16] masquerade as progressives have used it to target black america the black birth rate in america is nearly flatlined if you’ll

[00:49:23] see a pregnant black woman in new york city she’s more likely walking to an abortion clinic than to give birth more babies are

[00:49:30] aborted more black babies are aborted in new york city than born and if we really want black america to flourish

[00:49:36] then which i do then i would say i want more black people not less but the organization black lives

[00:49:42] matter do not believe that all black lives matter in fact when the organization was launched their

[00:49:48] website had all of the euphemistic phraseology of choice we stand for reproductive health

[00:49:53] care and reproductive justice right well they removed that recently because they probably saw sort of the

[00:49:59] problematic message if they’re wanting bipartisan support yeah for black lives matter certainly following the the murder of george floyd

[00:50:05] but uh alicia garza one of the co-founders of black lives matter later started an organization with

[00:50:11] cecile richards the former president of planned parenthood who’s basically besties with hillary clinton and

[00:50:16] a white racist herself and uh they launch an organization called super majority together so

[00:50:22] the president of planned parenthood responsible for killing more black babies and the kkk lynched in a century

[00:50:27] and the co-founder of black lives matter launched an organization together to help train and equip young women to

[00:50:33] be political activists and largely that would mean to be abortion political activists wow now how you make sense of

[00:50:38] that irony i’m not sure but this shows the deeper problem of our country that the cultural problems

[00:50:45] the spiritual problems and uh and and ultimately you know the god

[00:50:51] problem the god-shaped hole that the people have and that they’re trying to fill with this idea of sexual libertinism and

[00:50:57] freedom which to them has to include the right to abortion wow seth thank you so much we’re just about out of time here

[00:51:04] but um if you want more information sethgruber.com please check him out and support what he’s doing because

[00:51:10] really we need to make people aware what’s happened here is there is a lack of awareness of these issues i mean those numbers i

[00:51:17] would you know i would say most people do are not aware of those numbers that you just quoted that’s right and

[00:51:22] if more people were aware of them i think that we would continue to see a mass exodus from the democrat party of black people

[00:51:28] the black community would abandon that’s right um and i think we are seeing that in in fact so spread the word if you’re if you’re

[00:51:35] hearing this for the first time you know what uh do a post to it link to it communicate it and if you

[00:51:40] want more of these pro-life ideas my podcast is unaborted with seth gruber we’re all unaborted our mother’s made

[00:51:45] the right choice so if you want to hear more of these ideas you can subscribe to on youtube or wherever you listen to podcasts amen

[00:51:51] amen well thanks again seth really appreciate you being here thank you kevin and you guys have a great week we’re going to have a uh another guest coming

[00:51:57] up next week um we will have i believe a black a local black pastor

[00:52:02] um on the show so we’re gonna have a great discussion there talking about his views and um what he sees coming up

[00:52:09] with the current uh political climate and the elections coming in november so so uh i’ll see you next time and i hope

[00:52:15] you have a great weekend bye-bye did you miss part of today’s program don’t worry we’re committed to

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