What Should Christians Do in the Next 4 Years? – Tim Barton

[00:00:00] welcome to educate for life i’m your host kevin conover my website is educate4life.org and uh we’ve got all

[00:00:05] kinds of fantastic interviews up there with people from all over the world who have been influenced by jesus and then

[00:00:10] are allowing jesus christ to go out and help them influence others and obviously um

[00:00:16] you know we’re recording this right here it’s the day after um it’s the it’s wednesday november uh well

[00:00:23] i’m blanking wednesday november 3rd here the days are running into each other here uh with everything that’s happening

[00:00:28] with the election and uh it’s been uh everybody is on pins and needles if you’ve been you know paying attention which i can’t

[00:00:35] imagine you wouldn’t be but everybody’s wondering what’s going to happen and a lot of people consider this election to be one of the most

[00:00:40] significant and big elections that’s happened in quite a while i seem to hear that though every four years it’s the most significant election but

[00:00:47] my guest today is tim barton of wallbuilders.com he’s the president of wall builders that’s a national pro family

[00:00:53] organization and they focused on the history of america with an emphasis on the religious moral

[00:00:59] and constitutional heritage and wall builders has played a huge part in my perspective

[00:01:06] and how to play out my biblical world view when it comes to government when it comes to politics

[00:01:11] when it comes to social influence and uh tim i just want to say thanks so much for being on the show today

[00:01:16] it’s a pleasure to be with you kevin thanks for having me on absolutely i’ve read a ton of your uh your father’s

[00:01:22] books and uh your your guys’s articles and uh you guys have done an incredible job your incredible ministry

[00:01:29] wallbuilders.com and uh tim you know i was thinking about who can i talk to

[00:01:34] about what we should be thinking about as we move into the next four years here and you know a lot of people are

[00:01:41] wondering okay is it going to be biden is it going to be trump and what does that mean for me as a christian and

[00:01:47] you know a lot of people have a difficult time taking their biblical perspective what they know of scripture and then taking that

[00:01:54] and then using that to influence their culture around them and what that means for them and can you just tell us

[00:02:01] a little bit about your ministry and then i’m really curious to know what you think is an issue that’s relevant to

[00:02:08] christians regardless of who wins the election and uh you know as christians what do we

[00:02:13] do with the next four years absolutely so first of all our organization wall builders um just to kind of preface it we get our

[00:02:20] name from the bible book of nehemiah and nehemiah was for for the listeners if you remember the guy who was part of

[00:02:26] the babylonian captivity he was one of the jews who was captured he ends up being the cup bearer for the king but his heart is really toward his home

[00:02:33] he he looks at jerusalem and seems it’s been torn down and he’s really grieved that his his

[00:02:38] nation his hometown has been destroyed and the king really has compassion on him and says hey if you want to do

[00:02:44] something i’ll help you go back and rebuild this thing and and the story of nehemiah the bible book of nehemiah is really about

[00:02:51] nehemiah going back and rebuilding jerusalem and it’s interesting some of the allies god brings in along the way things

[00:02:57] i didn’t go maybe as you would have expected as far as some of the people that should have been

[00:03:03] his allies actually were some of his biggest opponents and some of the people you would think like the king who had conquered the

[00:03:09] nation right that was part of his dynasty and legacy he’s like i’ll help you rebuild your hometown and

[00:03:14] some of the allies didn’t make sense but it’s the journey of nehemiah going back to rebuild his his hometown to

[00:03:20] rebuild his nation people looked from the outside and told them you can’t rebuild jerusalem it’s too big of a task

[00:03:26] that you don’t have the manpower you don’t have the talented workers you need but it was honest hard he wanted to do it

[00:03:32] and he went back and said so the name wah builders comes from nehemiah 217 we said come let us rebuild the walls that we may no

[00:03:39] longer be a reproach and and it kind of started back in the 80s for us as a family

[00:03:44] my dad really felt impressed looking at america that god was kind of giving him the call of nehemiah for america looking at all

[00:03:52] the trouble america was going through with a lot of the moral issues uh the the lack of kind of biblical

[00:03:57] training the foundation and so he just really felt like god was calling him to help restore some of that

[00:04:03] biblical foundation of america which is where we emphasize the religious the moral of constitutional heritage as of now

[00:04:09] we have one of the largest private collections of original documents and artifacts from the founding era

[00:04:14] i’m sitting in a portion of our museum around me where we actually have letters from george washington and john adams and thomas

[00:04:21] jefferson and james madison every major founding father that signed the declaration the constitution we have

[00:04:26] their writings and what we can do is go back and see what they wrote about issues about situations and circumstances

[00:04:33] and what is mostly unknown for most americans is that the founding fathers although

[00:04:38] they certainly were not perfect people most of them were people who not only

[00:04:43] knew who god was but desired to have a relationship with god and be used by god

[00:04:49] and and this is where so much of our nation has a christian underpinning the moral foundations of the bible are

[00:04:54] the foundation that’s allowed america to be the most successful prosperous stable nation

[00:05:00] freest nation in the history of the world and we’re able to show how the founding fathers use those

[00:05:06] biblical principles to do those things in america and going back actually to their own writings which is really fun so that’s a lot of what we do

[00:05:13] but it’s it’s all in an effort to help restore biblical foundations to america to help get america back to those

[00:05:19] religious moral and even constitutional bearings that we’ve largely forgotten today and as we say they’re talking we’re just only

[00:05:26] hours after elections as states have been coming in and so right now as we’re talking

[00:05:31] there’s a lot that’s unknown and i imagine if people are watching a couple weeks from now there’s still probably going to be a lot unknown

[00:05:37] because we expect there’ll be some some probably court cases with this and it could go on for a long time but one of the questions you ask i think

[00:05:43] is is really brilliantly worded and stated in the sense of christians ought to be thinking what god has called us to do is not

[00:05:50] dependent on what kind of leader we have right as a christian we have the same calling as a christian whether we live

[00:05:56] in guatemala or china or north korea or right california texas god’s calling on

[00:06:04] our life doesn’t change based on our geography or our leader it’s just that it’s easier

[00:06:10] in in a maybe fleshly sense to carry out sometimes the operation of

[00:06:15] what god has for us when you don’t have to fear the persecution of a government

[00:06:20] when you’re able to do it in prosperity and so there’s a lot of blessings in america that

[00:06:25] we shouldn’t take for granted those of us that live in america and actually i imagine there’s probably people listening who did not originally grow up in america

[00:06:32] right maybe they’ve been missionaries or maybe they moved to america and they recognize the blessings and abundance of america

[00:06:37] one of the reasons we should care about our leaders is because our leaders help determine the direction of the future of the nation

[00:06:44] and if we’re going to be a socialist nation if we’re going to be a nation that still embraces freedom that gives freedom of thought

[00:06:49] freedom of choice one of the things we saw in the midst of this coronavirus obviously in kevin out in california you guys saw

[00:06:55] this more than many other states where some of the lockdown orders where you know you could go to the liquor store

[00:07:01] but you can’t go to church right yeah yeah it’s okay if you guys want to meet in public as long as you’re

[00:07:08] protesting something but don’t lead in public if you’re gonna worship god and and this is where sometimes people don’t

[00:07:14] understand the leaders that we choose oftentimes will have such a direct impact on our life and even the way that

[00:07:20] we are able to worship god according to the dictates of our own conscience to share the gospel and the thought is for

[00:07:26] so many people living in america we have enjoyed the blessings and benefits of america so long that we don’t recognize how unique and special

[00:07:33] those benefits are and we think well well everybody has has freedom no they don’t right the notion that we

[00:07:40] have the freedom of speech or the freedom of religion most nations in the world do not have those freedoms

[00:07:46] yeah and that’s funny because i you know i teach students all the time and i had i had a couple students say today uh if biden wins i’m gonna move

[00:07:53] i’m gonna move to canada and i was i was like whoa whoa okay canada is not a place where you have more rights than you do here in america

[00:08:00] regardless of if biden gets elected and so a question for you tim is um over the past four years as trump

[00:08:06] has been uh the president what are some of the things that you you look at

[00:08:11] under a trump presidency that were a benefit something that uh good that happened that you felt like hey

[00:08:16] this is moving in a direction i really wanted to see happen what are some of those big things that you were you were happy about his leadership that

[00:08:23] is a great question and this is where one of the important things of how we kind of can determine

[00:08:28] uh levels of leadership is we look at policies one of the things that has gotten

[00:08:33] president trump in trouble over the last four years is personality and there was an awful lot of people that voted in this

[00:08:39] election that voted based on his personality and even christians because christians look and said well that’s not a very nice man

[00:08:45] yeah and i don’t want to pause people at times and be like have you read the bible before yeah because right if you look at noah

[00:08:51] and abraham and moses like you go through hebrews 11 where the author of hebrews points out that without faith it’s

[00:08:57] impossible to please god and we have to have faith and it gives examples of heroes of the faith and you look at the list of people in

[00:09:02] hebrews 11 you’re like that is a who’s who of jacked up people those are not really righteous honorable

[00:09:10] people in in all of their behavior and so to say that someone is not a nice person has a bad personality

[00:09:16] that does not limit how god can use them and especially if that person is seeking to be used by god

[00:09:22] so looking at president trump’s policies i never would have guessed this because i can tell you back in 2016

[00:09:27] i was not a never trumper i was almost a never trumper but when it became president trump and

[00:09:33] hillary clinton the choice for me became very clear because as a christian one of the things

[00:09:39] that i think all christians we want to be guided by scripture and just very basic reading of the bible

[00:09:45] matthew 5 6 jesus tells us blessed are those that hunger and thirst for righteousness for

[00:09:50] they’ll be filled matthew 6 33 you seek first the kingdom of god and his righteousness we should be people that pursue

[00:09:57] righteousness well proverbs 14 34 tells us that righteousness is what exalts a nation so so righteousness should be a

[00:10:04] priority and this is again where policy matters more than personality because policies impact righteousness

[00:10:09] far more than personalities do and when it came down to to trump and hillary clinton the things

[00:10:16] to me that i recognize impact righteousness are things like life

[00:10:21] because god is the author and giver of life and no nation that’s murdered more than 60 million unborn children

[00:10:27] could consider themselves a godly or righteous nation that is a very unrighteous ungodly thing going on and

[00:10:32] so i thought okay so life is a very very important thing religious liberty or freedom

[00:10:37] the ability for us to be able to worship god according to our own beliefs and not be restricted by a government

[00:10:44] well i care a lot about religious freedom up the ability to worship god things like our position with israel where i am a big believer

[00:10:51] in genesis 12 where god tells abraham i’m going to make you a nation and i’m going to bless those that bless

[00:10:56] you and curse those who curse you i really do believe there’s something to be said for us having a good relationship with israel not to say that

[00:11:02] israel is perfect and doesn’t make mistakes well of course not but it’s kind of like a sibling right i can look at my brother or sister and

[00:11:08] go okay they make a lot of mistakes but i love them i’m going to support them i’m going to try to help them where i can and i’ll tell them they’re wrong if i think

[00:11:14] they’re wrong but but i looked at some basic to me basic priorities and values

[00:11:19] and president trump did a lot better on those basic values than hillary clinton did and then when

[00:11:24] he got elected i i i knew kind of president trump was kind of like rolling the dice we weren’t

[00:11:29] really sure we’re gonna get but i knew there was a better chance that we would get the right kind of policies from him

[00:11:36] when hillary clinton said no we believe right third trimester abortion’s totally okay right i mean

[00:11:42] just extreme stuff that’s obviously not okay yeah yeah so

[00:11:48] so tim um from a practical standpoint i mean one of the things that you emphasized was religious freedom you said

[00:11:53] hey um you know i i appreciate that so on a practical level do you really think that

[00:11:59] we were we are in danger of religious freedom when it comes to you know biden versus trump or hillary versus trump do

[00:12:05] you think that’s a real issue that we have to be concerned about as christians well i i appreciate the question i know

[00:12:11] it’s rather rhetorical because i know if we look around us i mean we’re seeing this kind of stuff right now in the midst of a canceled

[00:12:17] culture we are being told that if we believe the bible we are bigoted homophobic racist i mean

[00:12:24] every slur they can throw at you because if we say that we recognize that god created

[00:12:30] male and female right that that actually god made biology and there are x and y

[00:12:36] chromosomes right and there is such thing as gender that’s not just a biological construct that

[00:12:41] was created by a man no no god made them male and female and actually god made marriage as this sacred

[00:12:48] covenant between a man and a woman for a lifelong union was god’s design matthew 19 jesus said for this reason a

[00:12:54] man leads his father and mother he’s joined with his wife the two will become one what god has put together let nobody come against

[00:13:00] there’s a lot of basic biblical teachings that if you hold those positions today in the

[00:13:05] midst of canceled culture you will literally be canceled so much so that one of the things we’ve seen kamala harris

[00:13:11] uh vice president joe biden promoting is that we need to do things to protect

[00:13:17] the lgbtq plus community and so if you hold positions that are offensive

[00:13:22] that are bigoted that are homophobic or racist so what they’re saying is if you hold a biblical position that affirms

[00:13:29] not only what we have agreed in humanity for the last thousands of years of human existence but if you believe

[00:13:36] what the bible says then you’re a bad person and maybe actually that like literally this this is not

[00:13:42] some 1984 weird book we’re talking about there are literally people talking about you should go to re-education camps

[00:13:48] you should go to psychologists and let them retrain you so that you recognize your own bias your

[00:13:53] own bigotry your own homophobia and they’re like it’s unbelievable but this is where

[00:13:59] just having a christian perspective like this is literally part of the biden harris campaign and so this is one of

[00:14:06] those things that i think a lot of christians were just so naive in their positions on some of this not recognizing the threat that is to

[00:14:13] actual christianity yeah absolutely and you know my guest today is tim barton for those of you

[00:14:18] just tuning in wallbuilders.com you can check them out there um and uh of course this recording will be up

[00:14:24] on educate for life you can check it out um later on on social media and so forth but tim um you know

[00:14:30] so we’re here on wednesday night here uh i believe it’s nevada has said they’re not going to announce anything until

[00:14:36] tomorrow morning at 9 00 a.m um and you know god forbid uh trump is

[00:14:41] not elected and um we end up here with four years of biden what does that mean for us as christians as far as

[00:14:47] you know a lot of people get they become hopeless and and they feel uh despair over this sort of situation and

[00:14:53] um i love what you were saying about nehemiah and the the fact that he went out he started rebuilding the walls

[00:14:59] the circumstances looked pretty dire i mean he’s literally got a sword in one hand and he’s he’s you know got the uh uh bricks in

[00:15:05] the other hand and he’s trying to send this off um so what would what would what do we need to focus on as christians

[00:15:11] over the next four years let’s say trump isn’t elected what do you think is our way forward

[00:15:18] well actually i i would say that no matter what happens obviously we know god’s in the throne so not

[00:15:23] not to be like this churchy silly answer no like i genuinely believe that i’m not worried

[00:15:28] about this be you don’t have to worry about who holds or what the future holds when you know who holds the future right i’m really

[00:15:33] not worried about what’s going to happen how the courts decide this thing with that being said the notion that if

[00:15:39] president biden or in this case vice president biden becomes president biden and honestly we don’t expect him to be

[00:15:46] president very long before kamala harris takes over so really you’re looking at probably a harris presidency more than a biden

[00:15:52] presidency i would expect to see a lot of of restrictions come against christians

[00:15:59] a lot of religious liberty come under attack which i will tell you it’s one of the things i think is very favorable about having amy coney barrett being confirmed to the

[00:16:05] u.s supreme court because yeah she does recognize the constitution protects our religious liberty

[00:16:11] one of the things that the founding fathers acknowledged was we have god-given rights

[00:16:16] and that they lay this on the declaration we have god-given rights and then the role of government to protect our god-given rights and here’s what is

[00:16:22] so important that i think we’ve largely forgotten in american culture is we we so often presume well i have

[00:16:29] this right i have a right to this and it’s my right you only have the rights that are politically protected at least those are

[00:16:36] the only ones that you can be able to enjoy and utilize because if it’s not politically protected

[00:16:41] we could argue well yes you have the freedom of speech if you go over to a predominantly muslim

[00:16:47] middle east nation you do have the freedom of speech but over there if you say something they don’t like they might execute you on the spot

[00:16:54] right so you have the freedom to still say that but if it’s not politically protected you do not get to enjoy

[00:17:00] that god-given right of speech and this is where for example in france right now they actually have a law in france

[00:17:07] against proselytizing proselytizing is sharing the gospel

[00:17:12] it is against the law to share the gospel in public in france because they passed a law against

[00:17:17] proselytizing so so we could say no no i have the i have the freedom of religion well

[00:17:23] god has given you the right to choose what religion you want to be god’s given you the freedom of choice god has done that and

[00:17:29] we as christians should be encouraged to go share the good news of the gospel of christ right the hope the redemption

[00:17:35] found in christ we should want to share that with others but if it’s not a politically protected right then we will not be able to utilize that

[00:17:42] freely and enjoy the freedom of that and this is where one of the things that i think is very possible under a biden harris

[00:17:47] administration is we will see a restriction on many of those freedoms now the good news i will tell you

[00:17:53] is that historically the church has always thrived under persecution right and

[00:17:59] that’s nothing we ever want to hear because as americans we’ve lived so comfortably for so long but comfort

[00:18:04] leads to complacency and the american church has become one of the laziest churches in the world

[00:18:10] right and i’m not trying to be offensive to anybody although sometimes the truth is offensive right and you just didn’t mind hurting

[00:18:16] people’s feelings sometimes this is right being said in love but but we are

[00:18:21] we have become very lazy and even in this notion of of sharing the

[00:18:27] gospel right what we so often think is well let me just bring my friends to church and i’ll let my pastor do the job

[00:18:32] no no the church is supposed to equip us to go as saints to go to the work of the ministry right yeah it’s not pastor’s

[00:18:39] job to lead my friends to the lord that’s my job but we’ve gotten so used to in america letting somebody else do

[00:18:45] stuff for us we’re so complacent and we really haven’t had to have that moment where i mean almost like for for peter

[00:18:53] right when after the garden and he’s following jesus and and and jesus is going through all he’s going through in these trials

[00:18:59] and a little servant girl sees peter right well you’re one of them too he’s like oh no not me

[00:19:04] we haven’t been put in a place where we actually were were threatened with being a

[00:19:10] follower of christ because it’s always been the norm in america it’s it’s been the comfortable position to say you were a christian in america

[00:19:17] it’s only been in the last so many years maybe the last decade or two that actually christianity is losing its

[00:19:23] flair and flavor in america and the only reason is losing its flair in flavor is because the church has become

[00:19:29] lazy and we haven’t done a good job of reaching our communities of reaching our friends of reaching our co-workers

[00:19:34] because if we’ve done a better job of loving them and sharing the gospel then instead of america being 72 percent

[00:19:42] that identify as christian and less than six percent that have a biblical worldview

[00:19:47] we would be closer to that 80 90 disciple mark where not only are people knowing the

[00:19:53] gospel knowing who jesus is but they’ve learned how to live like jesus and so this is where regardless of who wins right i’m not

[00:20:01] worried or discouraged but i do think i see positive either way because if trump wins i do think maybe that’s that’s a merciful

[00:20:08] gesture from god where he’s saying i’m giving you guys a little more time to enjoy the freedom but you better straighten this act out

[00:20:14] right you better get some stuff together or it’s i mean the father disciplines

[00:20:20] the son he loves what the bible tells us yeah and god loves us right and and you read the entire old testament how

[00:20:26] many times did god let israel choose and they chose poorly and god’s like all right well here’s the consequences of

[00:20:32] that poor choice and when you get tired of those consequences you just let me know and i’ll come back and help you again

[00:20:37] yeah would you say tim um my guest today is tim barton wallbuilders.com you can check out the resources this is

[00:20:43] incredible i have a ton of the resources myself and i’ve learned so much would you say tim

[00:20:48] would you say that we have been in a place like this before in history as a as a historian as somebody who studies

[00:20:54] history you know a lot of people are saying hey these are dire times um historically would you say that

[00:21:00] america has been in a place like this before um or is this brand new what we’re going through yeah it’s a really good question so so

[00:21:06] first of all solomon wrote in ecclesiastes 3 there’s nothing new under the sun right so so the notion that it’s a brand

[00:21:12] new thought and it could be new for our nation right maybe not new historically it could be new for our nation except

[00:21:17] it’s not really that new for our nation although you might have to go back to the abraham lincoln era to find a

[00:21:23] time when our nation was so divided we’re literally right back in the lincoln era there were people going to

[00:21:29] the streets and there were people ready to fight and brother against brother neighbor against neighbor the kind of stuff that we are

[00:21:34] seeing with this division and we know i mean kevin is believers this is something that without god’s

[00:21:40] help without the help of the holy spirit without the love of jesus regenerated hearts these are things that will not be

[00:21:46] resolved with any new leader with any new political system or structure these are things that

[00:21:51] we need god right we got to be able to help with the love of god reach our neighbor let the holy spirit work in our

[00:21:57] hearts soften their heart we we need a move of god in a revival but this is not a brand new thought in

[00:22:03] america for us to be this politically divided it has been since about the time of the civil war but one of the things that is

[00:22:09] very consistent when you look at this nation is that when there were moments like this when america was incredibly divided

[00:22:15] god consistently raised up leaders and those very tenuous moments and and you see that god still had a

[00:22:22] plan and and so this is our prayer right now as we’re seeing these tenuous moments in america

[00:22:27] we recognize god still has a plan now it’s not beyond the realm of possibility for god’s plan to give us a little spanking and i mean

[00:22:34] no nation’s lasted forever right i mean just yesterday reality donations lasted forever this could be the end of america we pray it’s

[00:22:40] not and i don’t think god’s done with america i really don’t because i am a christian i will always be the hopeful optimistic

[00:22:48] because we know what’s impossible with man is possible with god right so so we know that god can do

[00:22:54] something great and that god can cause all things to work together for good for those that love him or call according his purpose

[00:22:59] we we know what scripture teaches so we know this is not beyond hope help or redemption from god but in the

[00:23:05] midst of this we recognize that whatever happens our calling as christians

[00:23:11] doesn’t really change absolutely absolutely um you know you said

[00:23:16] something that you know some you you gave voice to some people’s opinions which is that

[00:23:21] some christians feel very very um down in the sense that hey this could be the end of america i

[00:23:27] hear this frequently from some leadership and so forth um and obviously the socialistic

[00:23:33] tendencies that we’re hearing from uh you know by then and so forth are a big part of that

[00:23:39] um did the and socialism as we understand it or or marxism as we understand it came far

[00:23:45] after the founding fathers established america was that something that was ever on their radar was that

[00:23:50] something that they you know in your studies was that something that they ever warned against um why is it that people are so afraid

[00:23:57] of socialism why why is there this giant fear that seems to be this whole um hey this could be the end because a lot

[00:24:03] of you know a lot of people on the other side are saying hey this is a good thing we’re going to provide medical uh care

[00:24:08] for everybody this is a good thing i mean on on biden’s agenda is a free college education for any

[00:24:15] family that makes under 125 000 a year i mean a lot of people are like are you kidding me why

[00:24:20] why would we not want that so can you speak to that from a from a founding father perspective is that something

[00:24:25] they warned against what are your thoughts on that yeah so so so many thoughts with what you just

[00:24:30] said because there’s a lot of people that are going there and we could talk about right biblically historically constitutionally which are

[00:24:36] probably all good areas to look at you know first of all this notion that hey if somebody’s promising to give me free

[00:24:43] college or promising to give me money i mean even during some of these coronavirus lockdowns there were people

[00:24:48] making more money at home they were making on their jobs they didn’t even want to go back to work right more money without having a job

[00:24:54] why would i ever want to go back to work and so this notion right well if somebody’s going to pay for my college i’m gonna let the guy who’s i’m gonna

[00:25:01] get free college there’s actually no such thing as free college right somebody’s actually paying

[00:25:06] for that and so keep paying for that and this is one of the interesting things if you look at scripture you can go to the book of acts and

[00:25:13] ananias and sapphira are an interesting example because in the book of acts they did have this moment where a group of

[00:25:19] believers came together and they wanted to share everything now it’s worth noting that group of believers did it

[00:25:25] not by compulsion of government but because they came together in a social compact just from their own mutual

[00:25:31] agreement understanding we’re going to share together and nobody was forced to give anything they didn’t want to give to share in the community

[00:25:36] but that’s why in a nice survivor they wanted to fit in right and really kind of the pride of their hearts they were like well everybody else we

[00:25:42] will too until they sold land and they came and they said here we made all this money we’re giving it all

[00:25:49] and the disciples were like this is all really and so we know the story right they lied god

[00:25:54] struck them down what was interesting though is what the disciples told them is

[00:25:59] you actually had the choice you didn’t have to give it all you could have kept whatever you wanted

[00:26:05] but you lied and that was the problem now the big picture is in socialism you don’t actually get the choice to

[00:26:11] keep whatever you want socialism and this is where a lot of people confuse socialism because we often think of

[00:26:16] socialism as sharing or helping people in need and as christians we want to help people in need it’s just

[00:26:22] we would probably differ in response of how it happens we understand that if you look at the bible god made family

[00:26:28] god made the institution of the government the institution of the church so there’s three institutions that god made from the

[00:26:33] individual those three institutions exist in those institutions they were all given different responsibilities and different

[00:26:39] functions and if you read the bible and you look up verses on when the bible talks about caring for the poor needy

[00:26:44] there’s not a single verse where the bible tells the government to care for the poor needy the only thing the bible ever tells the

[00:26:49] government is give them justice when they’re in court don’t show favoritism against them injustice so it’s really just

[00:26:55] justice because that was government’s job is to uphold the standard of justice it was the role of the church in the

[00:27:01] family to help people in need and so this is not government’s job and this is again where so often we push that on to somebody else

[00:27:07] in america more now to back up this thought actually we tried socialism twice we

[00:27:13] tried it in jamestown and we tried it in plymouth and if you go back and read the history of jamestown

[00:27:19] socialism in jamestown led to what was known as a starving time and the starving time is one of the most

[00:27:26] uh troubling histories you will read in the history of america because they had more than 600 people

[00:27:32] leading into this winter of the starving time when they finish the winter they’re down around the 200 number

[00:27:38] and that winter not only did they eat all of the cows all of the horses all of the dogs all of

[00:27:44] the cats when they ran out of animals to eat they then went to the local cemetery

[00:27:49] they dug up the graves in the local cemetery and they found people whose bodies had not fully decayed

[00:27:55] they began eating because they’re literally starving to death and part of the reason they’re struggling to death is because they were expecting the king

[00:28:01] to provide for them because they had come from this kind of surf lord noble class

[00:28:06] system where they worked and they had nobles and lords over them until they would work for the lords and nobles and they’d

[00:28:12] have to go in the field and they put in there 10 hours or 12 hours a day in the field and then at the end of the day they would get right they’re due for what

[00:28:18] they did they they were not used to being individually responsible for themselves or providing for themselves that was a new thought

[00:28:24] for them so they came to jamestown and they were expecting the king to provide for them well the ships were not coming across with

[00:28:30] the food they were expecting and they didn’t know how to provide for themselves and so they began starving to

[00:28:35] death they actually turned into cannibals where there are accounts of not only did they eat people that were in cemeteries

[00:28:41] they then began killing and eating each other one man actually killed his wife and and she was pregnant i mean just the

[00:28:48] story is graphic it’s gruesome it’s terrible but but this is the reality of when you embrace socialism

[00:28:54] in its full extent one of the problems that happens with it socialism doesn’t account for the laziness of man and so

[00:29:00] if the notion is that everybody is going to do whatever work they can so each according to his ability each to

[00:29:07] each according to his need the problem is people realize if we’re all getting the same no matter who does

[00:29:13] how much work then i don’t need to work that hard because i’m going to be able to get the same no matter if i work or not

[00:29:19] productivity declines so much that soon you don’t have enough to go unless you have the government they’re

[00:29:24] forcing you into it and that’s why socialism almost always leads to communism because

[00:29:29] you have to have the government that’s now compelling you to work or you won’t produce enough well plymouth tried a similar idea now the

[00:29:35] pilgrims in plymouth had a very different heart and notion they actually were trying to follow more

[00:29:40] of the the bible model of the book of acts and they called the common storehouse system and they said well let’s just share

[00:29:46] together but you can go back and read governor bradford’s journal and he said that we presume that we were

[00:29:51] wiser than god because god himself told us if a man should not work

[00:29:56] he should not eat and god was the one who told them right also that a man should provide for

[00:30:02] his own family governor bradford says like this is not what we were doing and so governor bradford says that they

[00:30:07] changed their now this was after the first winter where most of them or half of them died that first winter

[00:30:12] and governor bradford said people began faking sickness and injury and they couldn’t keep up the productivity so they weren’t

[00:30:18] having enough food and fuel and shelter and everything else so governor bradford says

[00:30:23] from now on every family you get your own plot of land and every family is going to grow their

[00:30:29] crops in their own plot of land and whatever you produce you can eat it you can sell

[00:30:34] it you can trade it but you are now responsible for yourself they became the most productive colony in the entire

[00:30:40] english system within seven years they had opened up their own trading house free market

[00:30:45] trading house which was the first successful entrepreneur free market trading house in america called the app toxic trading

[00:30:52] house so we we tried socialism in two different colonies both of them were miserable failures and this is where if

[00:30:58] we just look historically this notion of socialism and by the way socialized medicine is different than

[00:31:04] economic socialism which socialism in its whole is the government controlling the means of production and

[00:31:09] government controlling private property what most people talk about is socialized medicine which is not fully socialism they just kind of

[00:31:16] confuse those two thoughts yeah but under socialism if you look historically the only question i need to know is can

[00:31:23] you show any examples where a nation is turned socialist and the people got more prosperity and

[00:31:30] more individual liberties or freedoms where i’m going to make money and i’m going to be free

[00:31:36] in the history of the world it’s never increased prosperity or freedoms for any nation in the world well in america we like money and

[00:31:42] freedom so so that’s what we like that’s not the kind of system we want it’s not what the bible teaches

[00:31:47] it’s not historically accurate and it’s never worked in the history of the world oh that’s a fantastic answer

[00:31:53] what a that’s that’s great now we just need more people to hear that so i guess that’s my question here is is

[00:31:59] that you know uh the public schools it’s really that we live we live in such strange times right

[00:32:05] here in san diego our school is one of the only schools that’s open where kids actually can come to school almost all the other schools are either

[00:32:11] only one day a week or whatever the case but this so we have this incredible change

[00:32:16] in the education system and that’s kind of my next question for you because i know one of the first books i ever read

[00:32:22] um from wall builders that your father wrote had to do with the 1962 1963 and then the changes that

[00:32:30] took place after that because of the changes in the education system and so when when we look at this

[00:32:35] situation and we say well how did we get here where so many people want socialism what what in the world

[00:32:41] uh do we have this system where everybody’s begging for handouts all of a sudden in america

[00:32:46] and how do we reverse that you know and this is kind of my question along the same lines tim that has to do with

[00:32:51] what’s the way forward regardless of whether trump is elected or whether biden is elected um when it comes to

[00:32:58] uh you know reversing this trend towards socialism uh you know what’s your plan here you

[00:33:04] help me out tim what what you know those those who don’t know their history are destined to repeat it so you know your history so uh give us some

[00:33:11] guidance in that area what are your thoughts so what’s always made america different and special has been the impact and influence of the bible in

[00:33:17] america and what we have lost so much in modern culture is the impact of the bible

[00:33:22] and part of the reason we’ve lost that i i don’t even blame the education system now certainly you mentioned in 1962 the

[00:33:28] u.s supreme court ruled that prayer was no longer allowed in public schools 1963 and a dual decision

[00:33:34] abington chimp and murray curlett the u.s supreme court ruled that we were not going to have the bible in schools anymore and so

[00:33:39] there was a very deliberate effort by a overactive judicial branch that said we’re not

[00:33:45] going to let god be there anymore and and so that changed a lot of what happened but i’m going to point to the

[00:33:50] church because obviously when we took the bible out of schools that’s a huge thing where

[00:33:56] kids most of the learning that kids do right at least academically they do in school so they’re not on the bible there’s a

[00:34:01] problem but but how have we gone for how many decades

[00:34:06] and and we’re looking at culture around us why is abortion permissible where we lost the value of life well

[00:34:14] it’s because christians haven’t done a good job teaching that that life is sacred because god is the author and

[00:34:20] giver of life psalm 139 jeremiah 1 5. or you take this notion right even as we we mentioned socialism

[00:34:26] how have we gotten here explain to me 2 thessalonians 3 10 where paul says right have you not heard

[00:34:32] from the beginning if a man would not work he should not eat like how do we balance that

[00:34:38] because the bible says if you’re going to be lazy if you’re not going to be productive you shouldn’t be rewarded with food and i sometimes joke with parents right

[00:34:44] like this is where we start with chores right yeah tell your kids hey you want to eat dinner go clean your room

[00:34:50] but like this is literally what the bible teaches god did not make us to to be takers god

[00:34:57] made us to be producers where jesus said i’m the vine you’re the branches in me you will produce much fruit god

[00:35:02] made us to be producers in fact if you go back to genesis and this is where christian worldview

[00:35:07] we have done a terrible job of teaching even biblical worldview of why why do we even exist on this

[00:35:13] earth well go back to genesis right when god is creating everything it’s very fascinating

[00:35:19] in genesis 2 5 and then in genesis 2 15 it says that god created everything the

[00:35:24] garden of eden god saw that it was good it says but god saw there was no one to tend the garden

[00:35:30] so god makes out in verse 15 god makes adam and god put adam in charge of the garden

[00:35:36] here’s what’s interesting we we get this notion from like westminster shorter catechism that the

[00:35:41] chief end of man is to know god right enjoy him glorify him forever that this is kind of our notion we’re here to

[00:35:47] love god and to worship god bless true but but in this case love is actually an action and

[00:35:52] a verb right it’s our behavior we love god more through our lifestyle than our words right actions speak

[00:35:57] louder than words god put us here actually to be stewards of what he has created of what he has

[00:36:02] done and part of that stewardship we can read and in the gospels right the parable the talents of people the mind is we are

[00:36:08] stewards of what the master has left with us and and so that could be relationships that could be family that could be

[00:36:14] business but in our case it does include this nation because we are here christians have not done a good job of

[00:36:19] explaining what basic bible stuff is and so most christians grow up without a biblical

[00:36:25] worldview and that’s why the the only way you can embrace socialism is you don’t really understand what the

[00:36:30] bible teaches because if you read in the gospels right and you can pretty much pick a gospel and i can

[00:36:36] pick a parable out of one of those gospels and what you will find consistently jesus taught so many parables on money

[00:36:42] and and jesus in many of those parables said to him who has more will be given right

[00:36:48] who did he reward the one who made ten i’m like this is consistently what jesus

[00:36:53] did jesus didn’t reward the unproductive and and actually for anybody who’s ever had a job

[00:36:59] right anybody who’s ever been a business leader this is not confusing i i help for an

[00:37:04] organization right we have 20 employees if i have an employee who’s lazy who’s

[00:37:10] unproductive who has a bad attitude who shows up late like th this is a person i’m not rewarding in

[00:37:15] fact that person’s probably going to get fired this is just basic basic thoughts

[00:37:21] in christianity we have not communicated basic values principles and morals from the

[00:37:26] bible john adams said about america that our constitution which the foundation of all government america is

[00:37:32] our constitution that is where we get the rule of law in america the u.s constitution john adams says our constitution was made

[00:37:38] only for a moral and a religious people he said it’s wholly inadequate to the government of any other the reason

[00:37:44] that our america and our constitution will not work without people that are religious and moral is because our constitution was designed

[00:37:51] to give freedom to the people but freedom only works if you have a moral people

[00:37:56] because if you agree to immoral people like this is what portland has been dealing with for months people been rioting and burning down you

[00:38:03] can’t give freedom to immoral people or it threatens everybody else freedom only works you have a moral people

[00:38:08] but you only have a moral people through the instruction of religion and the founding father said the best religion that’s been given to

[00:38:15] man by god is christianity so unapologetically unequivocally they said christianity

[00:38:21] is what allows america to be free and this is where the church has not done a good job of promoting the morals and the

[00:38:27] values of christianity even inside the church because way too many christians are confused about

[00:38:33] issues that in the bible are not confusing which just tells me that christians don’t know the bible which to

[00:38:38] me then i point to the church and say well that means the church isn’t doing a very good job of helping teach the bible or

[00:38:43] more christians would know what was true yeah amen so i i mean that’s a big part

[00:38:48] of what we need to do as we move back you know we’re going to this and you know i think what you said it makes a lot of sense

[00:38:54] is that sometimes god lets us uh you know you made your bed now sleep in it and um maybe that then you’ll remember

[00:39:01] you know who i am and what i did for you and and why i gave you the word of god why i gave you the bible and

[00:39:07] and you guys can get back on track because you’re you’re way off base right now uh and so you know that makes a lot of

[00:39:13] sense what you’re saying there um so from from a perspective from that perspective

[00:39:18] uh you know i don’t think a lot of what you explained when it comes to the founding fathers and the way they set it up a lot of christians are completely

[00:39:24] unaware of that um although you guys have been making great headway into into doing that sort of stuff and and um i think um our

[00:39:33] one of my pastors out here uh pastor jim garlow uh very uh good friends with david barton for a long time and and uh

[00:39:39] i always loved his messages because he’s so um into you know our our history and

[00:39:46] how the country was founded and why it was founded this way and so you know what what we’re battling a

[00:39:51] large percentage of uh a lot of propaganda that’s moving in the opposite direction and so

[00:39:57] um you know from your perspective it’s just a matter of getting that information out there to the people that that need it

[00:40:02] and and educating them and everything um i look at my school for example right so i teach a lot of what you’re talking

[00:40:08] about in my class we talk about a biblical world view informing our politics and our government um but but the stats right now are that

[00:40:15] only five percent of kids attend a christian school in america you know somewhere around 90

[00:40:20] or so are going to public schools where they’re getting indoctrinated and you know again if biden is elected

[00:40:27] he wants to expand free public education which essentially gives the government a monopoly on education

[00:40:32] and and and kids are spending more times and there’s more time in their schools than they are in um in church or even with their their

[00:40:40] parents right and so um how do you how do you deal with that so to add on to that so also the biden

[00:40:46] harris administration does not believe in school choice they don’t believe in a voucher program they don’t even believe in charter schools they think there should only be

[00:40:52] one system of education and that is the government-run education which again i would point out that’s not

[00:40:58] a really biblical position right because the position of parenting or raising children was given to parents

[00:41:04] it wasn’t given to government education is not a government job that is a parent job now parents

[00:41:10] can partner with somebody to help them do that but if they’re going to partner with somebody it would make way more sense to partner with the church in fact

[00:41:16] in early america pretty much it was churches that were helping run schools and that’s the way it was

[00:41:22] all the way up through largely the 1800s it wasn’t until really kind of the birth of some of the progressive movement america that a lot

[00:41:28] of that changed and and schools really moved out of churches became their own independent buildings

[00:41:34] and then became increasingly secular over time as progressives took over and one of the things i think is a challenge even educational big picture

[00:41:42] what we do not have in america is a desire to know pursue or defend truth in fact

[00:41:49] we say that the truth is relative it’s subjective i have friends who have been teachers in the public school system and one of the

[00:41:54] things they were taught in their really their indoctrination camp right but in

[00:42:00] in their teacher training was that if a student asks you a moral question the proper response from a teacher is

[00:42:07] you need to tell the student that you need to do whatever you think is right yeah yeah so literally we’re telling

[00:42:13] kids whatever you think you just do no the job of the teacher the job of the parent the job of a leader is to help

[00:42:19] guide shape and instruct because kids have not learned that yet but we are living now in a structure

[00:42:25] where truth is relative truth is flexible and i tell christians right as much as we talk about we want to

[00:42:31] to defend the truth of the word of god absolutely i agree with that and we should it’s worth defending with that being

[00:42:38] said though we have to learn to defend truth in general because truth is not going to be won or

[00:42:44] lost in the issue of biblical truth it’s going to be won and lost in the issue of relative or subjective truth and if we

[00:42:52] live in a culture where everybody says that everybody gets to determine their own truth all of a sudden the gospel will not be

[00:42:57] effective in that culture because people will say well that’s your truth that’s not my truth

[00:43:03] the reality is there’s no your truth my truth there is the truth in our opinions but until we become

[00:43:09] defenders of truth or promoters of truth and this is why even for us looking at

[00:43:14] the founding fathers were there so many blatant lies being said about america that america is systemically racist and we’re

[00:43:21] evil and all these it’s not true america even like the position of slavery okay

[00:43:26] america it’s true america did have slavery and you can say it’s a really bad position i agree with you it’s a bad position

[00:43:31] but if we’re going to talk about the history of slavery in america let’s also point out america was the very first nation in the history of the world march

[00:43:36] 2nd 1807 to pass a law banning the slave trade america was the fourth nation in the

[00:43:42] history of the world to actually ban slavery 1865 the end of the civil war when slavery was banned

[00:43:48] there were 124 nations in the world we were number four and banning slavery in our nation 120

[00:43:54] nations still had slavery after us we were one of the first so so we started earlier and arguably we paid a

[00:44:00] higher price to enslave than any nation because it was after the civil war more than 600 000 lives were lost

[00:44:06] and even if you look at slavery today slavery still exists today and and the united nations is a gathering of all the nations from around

[00:44:12] the world there were 193 member nations at the u.n this year 94 of those nations still have not

[00:44:19] passed laws banning slavery in their nation wow slavery still exists today there’s more

[00:44:24] than 40 million people that are literally enslaved today 9.2 million in africa they’re slaves in

[00:44:29] china they’re slaves in india indonesia like literally around the world there are slaves and yet what we hear in america there was a a

[00:44:36] democrat senator this year who said america created the institution of slavery

[00:44:46] that’s so idiotic right like obviously as christians we can go back to genesis joseph

[00:44:51] was sold into slavery by his brothers moses led the israelites out of slavery in egypt but even if you don’t know the

[00:44:56] bible how did you miss like the greeks and the romans yeah apparently this is the nonsense

[00:45:02] that’s being said if we don’t become defenders of truth if truth is lost all of a sudden as

[00:45:07] christians we’re gonna have a much harder time engaging a culture who doesn’t believe truth exists it’s a lot easier if people

[00:45:15] believe truth exists to present the truth of the gospel and this again is why it’s so important as

[00:45:20] christians that we engage in culture but first we have to know the word of god so we know the truth we stand on truth and

[00:45:26] then we present that truth to others awesome man that’s awesome tim um

[00:45:32] you know that uh those some of that stuff that you just quoted there uh is that available on your website for

[00:45:38] because that’s valuable information that you’re that you’re quoting there um that a lot of people are completely unaware of is

[00:45:43] is that all on your website yeah so while builders.com we have a lot of articles and and dealing with

[00:45:49] some of the heroes are under attack some of the statues that are being torn down so there’s articles that deal with the slavery in america with christopher

[00:45:55] columbus or george washington we actually just like a month ago came out with a brand new book called the

[00:46:00] american story where we start with christopher columbus and we go through the end of slavery in

[00:46:06] america we worked on this kevin for almost three years and it’s actually just providential that it was coming out at a

[00:46:11] time when there was so much chaos and so much vitriol and hate against america but most people don’t even know the

[00:46:17] story of america so even though america is not a perfect nation and what we point out in the book

[00:46:22] right everybody has sinned and fallen short of the glory of god so our starting place is that nobody’s perfect

[00:46:28] which means no nation is perfect either and there definitely are moments in america’s history that america did sinful wicked

[00:46:33] evil things because we had at moments really bad sinful wicked evil leaders and

[00:46:39] and some leaders who generally try to be good still at fleshly moments right so so nobody’s perfect everybody messed up

[00:46:46] but the story of america is so different because it’s the story of how a perfect god used so many imperfect people

[00:46:52] and did great things to advance civilization to advance equality to advance society in fact

[00:46:58] every atrocity that people point to in america one of the things that’s worth noting and one of the questions worth asking

[00:47:04] is how did that end in america or what what brought that to an end because for example when people talk

[00:47:10] about slavery in america okay here’s the question how did slavery end in america and here’s what’s amazing about the american

[00:47:17] story without exception every single atrocity in america ended

[00:47:22] when pastors christians and churches stood up and said we don’t need to do that anymore we need to do something different

[00:47:28] literally it was the influence of christianity that every time america was going the wrong direction it corrected course and

[00:47:33] said this is the way we need to go and so that’s why when you look at the story of america it’s not the story of a perfect nation

[00:47:40] but you do see how god used imperfect people and did great things through her in america

[00:47:46] even though we’re not perfect really is a very special nation where we have done more to contribute to the advance of all civilization around

[00:47:53] the world than any other nation arguably outside of maybe israel kind of old testament times

[00:47:58] but we just don’t know that story anymore so certainly wallbuilders.com is the website they can go to lots of articles for free we’re all over

[00:48:04] social media we have a youtube channel on facebook and instagram and twitter we’re all over the place and there’s also a brand new book called

[00:48:10] the american story if they want to just track the story and see what actually happened it really is a story book

[00:48:15] where we kind of show the good the bad the ugly but you see that every time bad and ugly happen god

[00:48:21] was raising up people to put a stop to that and god used these imperfect people and did really great things through him

[00:48:28] wow that was awesome tim man i i love that i’m gonna buy that book honestly right away

[00:48:33] so i love what you guys put out man you you have a very unique ministry it’s one of a kind and

[00:48:38] it has made such a tremendous impact on me and so many others i know for sure so for those of you just uh catching the

[00:48:44] tail end here of our of our discussion uh this is tim barton uh with wall builders he’s the president over there

[00:48:50] they’re doing an incredible thing there’s all kinds of ways you can support them but honestly um they’re gonna support you in

[00:48:56] tremendous ways check out their website their articles and uh tim i really love what you said

[00:49:01] too that we’ve got to be defenders of truth and the fact of the matter is is regardless of whether it’s biden or whether it’s

[00:49:07] trump um our our call is the same over the next four years and that’s to continue to

[00:49:12] be salt and light to our culture and our world and people who desperately need jesus and i always think you know um the

[00:49:18] scripture that says that people have been taken captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy

[00:49:23] um we’ve just got to look at it from the perspective that hey these are people that god loves and he’s given us information that

[00:49:29] we need to share with these people who so desperately need it so thanks for tim for uh for being here today

[00:49:34] it was a pleasure thanks for having me on absolutely okay uh i’m waving goodbye everybody

[00:49:40] we’ll see you next week and uh check out my website educate4life.org there’s all kinds of interviews up there

[00:49:46] uh from uh people all over the all over the place uh sharing amazing stories and some really

[00:49:52] fantastic interviews we’ve just done recently really been blessed so we’ll see you next week and i hope you have a great time pray hard

[00:49:58] pray hard for our country pray hard for our for this election pray hard for our leadership uh that god would move in their hearts

[00:50:04] god bless you take care [Music]

[00:50:10] bye-bye

[00:50:25] you