The Heated Debate Over Global Warming – Dr. Jake Hebert

[00:00:00] and now here’s your host Kevin [Music] coning shame welcome to educate for life

[00:00:07] I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is educate forlife.org and if you’ve been keeping up on the news you know one

[00:00:14] of the Hot Topics or maybe I should say well I guess Hot Topics uh is climate change right uh

[00:00:21] president Trump recently made the decision um you know along with a lot of conservatives to pull out of the Paris

[00:00:29] agreement and if you know anything about the Paris agreement it’s around 196

[00:00:34] Nations who signed an agreement um agreeing to try to reduce carbon

[00:00:40] emissions and these sorts of things and and this just happened very recently and Trump uh said that the the US government

[00:00:47] was shouldering an unfair amount of the burden regarding um trying to affect the

[00:00:53] climate and trying to keep the climate down uh there’s Al all kinds of things in the agreement uh part of it was to

[00:01:00] reduce uh the carbon footprint you know try to reduce uh greenhouse gases and so forth um the goal was for countries to

[00:01:08] aim at keeping warming below 2° cels uh and to limit temperature increases to 1

[00:01:14] and a half degrees cus so um this is an interesting subject that a lot of people are very passionate about it you even

[00:01:22] have people saying that um if you don’t agree with climate change then uh you

[00:01:27] don’t deserve to be heard when it comes to to Scientific issues and things like this and so I thought I’d bring an

[00:01:33] expert on the show regarding this issue my guest today is Dr Jake Hebert and he

[00:01:39] earned a master’s degree in physics in 1999 from Texas A&M University he studied Optics he was a Dean’s graduate

[00:01:45] fellow uh he received his PhD in 2011 from the University of Texas at Dallas

[00:01:50] his research involved a study of the possible connection between fair weather atmospheric electricity and weather and

[00:01:56] climate he’s the author of The Ice Age and the flood does science really show millions of years and a contributor to

[00:02:02] guide to Creation Basics creation Basics and Beyond and guide to the universe so Dr Hebert thanks for being on the show

[00:02:07] today well thank you thanks for having me absolutely and uh if you’re interested in looking up more about Dr

[00:02:13] Hebert um you can go to icr.org and they’ve got all kinds of stuff he has uh

[00:02:18] a few uh technical papers also at answersingenesis.org and creation.com Dr

[00:02:24] Hebert um you know this issue a lot of people are very very passionate about it they’re concerned that hey if we don’t

[00:02:31] uh handle this issue of climate change then uh the world’s going to fall apart and we’re going to see all kinds of

[00:02:37] problems arise can you um explain to our listeners why this issue is uh so

[00:02:42] controversial what is it that people think is going to happen and why do people think that this Paris agreement

[00:02:48] was so important uh all these nations agreeing to reduce uh carbon emissions and so forth well uh scientists have

[00:02:55] been measuring the amount of atmospheric carbon dioxide since so around 1960 and there’s been an increase I mean

[00:03:02] the amount of atmospheric carbon dioxide has gone up and the reason a lot of people are concerned about that is

[00:03:08] because that’s what you call a greenhouse gas and when you have light uh from the Sun uh so some of that

[00:03:17] radiation comes through it hits the Earth it warms the Earth up and the

[00:03:22] Earth radiates what we call infrared radiation okay now why real quick why

[00:03:28] does why is carbon oxide a greenhouse gas why is it called a greenhouse gas I’m getting yeah I’m getting to that the

[00:03:35] reason is because uh it does a very good job of absorbing and emitting that

[00:03:40] infrared radiation and so what happens is uh these greenhouse gases if you will

[00:03:46] they they uh they will you know that upward infrared radiation coming from the earth uh it’s absorbed by things

[00:03:53] like carbon dioxide uh water vapor clouds things like that and then they radiate it some of and some of that ra

[00:04:00] infrared radiation goes back out into space but some of it goes back down and it gets trapped if you will and so

[00:04:06] there’s a warming effect and the concern is well if we have too much carbon dioxide things are going to get out of

[00:04:12] control uh we will have a runaway greenhouse effect where things get much too warm and it could lead to some kind

[00:04:19] of climate catastrophe and that that’s the concern uh that a lot of people have but the real issue though in this debate

[00:04:27] is is not really whether or not uh increased carbon dioxide would increase

[00:04:32] would cause warming I don’t think anybody disputes uh that there would be a little bit of warming uh due to an increase in

[00:04:39] carbon dioxide if everything else stays the same uh the real issue the real

[00:04:45] bonus contention is uh will everything stay the same is our climate sensitive

[00:04:51] uh to an increase in in the amount of carbon dioxide because there’s one camp that says if that happens you’re going

[00:04:58] to have a runaway effect there will be other factors that exacerbate the warming and contribute it contribute to

[00:05:05] it what you would call this positive feedback effect where it gets worse and worse and worse and worse and eventually

[00:05:11] uh we’re all cooking but there’s another side that says no the climate is more stable than that there are other factors

[00:05:18] that can mitigate or um uh any warming that might occur and so that’s the real

[00:05:24] that’s the real debate over this issue okay is is whether it can be prevented

[00:05:30] or not well or or whether or not it’s um the real issue is how sensitive is our

[00:05:37] climate uh to these changes is it is it sensitive enough that we need to worry

[00:05:42] or is it Rel is our climate relatively stable so that so that if this changes

[00:05:48] there are other factors that will uh compensate for any warming that might occur and that’s really the issue and

[00:05:55] those of us uh from the creation position would say that the climate is stable God made it that way he’s built

[00:06:02] in these feedbacks uh that can uh that will keep things from getting out of control in

[00:06:08] fact he’s promised us a certain degree of climate stability uh since the time

[00:06:13] of the flood in Genesis you know he promis there would be this uh these Cycles uh seasonal Cycles they would not

[00:06:20] stop and so we expect there to be a certain degree of climate stability uh

[00:06:26] because of God’s promise okay now so so what other um greenhouse gases are there

[00:06:31] besides carbon dioxide well there’s clouds uh water vapor in fact you know water vapor is a big one uh you know

[00:06:39] there you know methane things like that um uh now are the people that are

[00:06:44] arguing that we need to reduce our our uh you know greenhouse gas emissions and so forth are they arguing also against

[00:06:51] for example methane and uh water in the sky yeah well I don’t know about the water part but some of them are worried

[00:06:58] about methane I mean you know it sounds like a joke yeah but there are groups that have said we need to worry about

[00:07:04] cow flatulence you it’s like L they not joking they’re totally serious yeah I

[00:07:10] was watching they are wor I mean they are worried about that you know um but I think I think it’s overblown and uh uh

[00:07:17] you I’ve got some reasons for my own personal research to think that yeah and I want I want our listeners to be able

[00:07:22] to hear that because you have done quite a bit of research on this and written about it and so forth um I I saw a

[00:07:28] cartoon once that was talking about climate change it was saying that the dinosaurs actually went extinct from their own methane that they uh right

[00:07:35] yeah yeah yeah so so but people are seriously saying that that uh methane

[00:07:41] the amount of methane in the air is actually causing the Earth to warm up also yeah now do you is there any Bas is

[00:07:47] there any in your opinion is there any truth to that or is that no uh well it

[00:07:52] is a greenhouse gas but I would be you know I in theory maybe you know if you

[00:07:58] increase the amount of thing you might have an effect but I I would be stunned if if there was something to worry about

[00:08:06] or if it’s even noticeable I mean you know we’ve had cows a why is it now that

[00:08:12] all of a sudden now we’re worried about cow methane I mean uh you know cows have been here since the beginning uh and we

[00:08:19] you know it didn’t seem to upset the climate too badly why are we getting so worried about it now yeah you know um

[00:08:26] and and one thing I’ve noticed uh is that a lot of the alarmism on this issue is tied to the creation Evolution issue

[00:08:34] in both subtle and not so subtle ways and uh you know that and what you

[00:08:41] believe about our Origins really does have an effect on the way you look at this issue yeah absolutely I I was

[00:08:48] reading and uh according to now now would you say that the Earth’s temperature actually is increasing I

[00:08:54] this article I read here it says that the temperature of the Earth has increased by8 degrees Celsius 1.4 Dees F

[00:09:01] since 1880 um so would you say yeah it is increasing or would you say this is like

[00:09:07] a fluctuation over history or what well there has been an increase in the 20th

[00:09:12] century uh but the thing is uh there there have been colder periods and there

[00:09:17] have been warmer periods there was something called the medieval warm period uh you know around I guess there

[00:09:23] was around maybe know maybe 900 to4 1480 something like that where it was much

[00:09:29] warmer I mean Greenland uh was called Greenland for a reason there were there were the Viking settlements there and

[00:09:36] then it got cold and they you know those settlements disappeared okay we’ve also

[00:09:41] we’ve and one of the interesting things is about those who are um kind of alarmist on this issue they’ve tended to

[00:09:47] downplay those natural variations in climate yeah well we’re coming up here on a break here uh Dr Hebert but my

[00:09:54] guest today is Dr Hebert we’re talking about climate change we’re talking about the Paris agreement uh should we be concerned that Trump pulled out of the

[00:10:01] Paris agreement uh is is climate change something that we should be panicking about uh stay with us we’re going to be

[00:10:06] right back and we’re going to continue to talk about this from a Biblical creationist perspective stay with

[00:10:13] us hi this is Jason Hall president of Team Home Loans a branch of synergy1

[00:10:18] lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for the profound impact he’s had on mine and

[00:10:24] my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and

[00:10:29] passion have taught us all how important it is to be Defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin

[00:10:36] and his show it is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn to be Defenders of your faith through

[00:10:41] Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for Life teachings thank you Kevin from the hall family and team Home

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[00:12:26] you you’re the an thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website is educate

[00:12:33] forlife.org you can pick up a recording of this show as well as many other previous shows I’ve got all kinds of

[00:12:38] interviews up there just recently interviewed uh immigration attorney uh Esther Valdez talking about a Biblical

[00:12:44] view of immigration another Hot Hot Topic that’s uh in the news and people are struggling to make decisions about

[00:12:51] hey how should I deal with this issue of uh people being deported and and families being split up and and uh yet

[00:12:58] we want to have clear borders and how do I deal with this biblically So today we’re talking about climate change and

[00:13:04] how do I view this issue biblically uh should I be concerned that uh Trump pulled out of the Paris agreement 196

[00:13:11] Nations had signed on to reduce carbon emissions and yet here we are uh pulling out of it he says it’s because there’s

[00:13:17] an undue financial burden put on the US and uh that it’s not right that the US is being uh forced to shoulder the the

[00:13:24] majority of this uh you know the obligation here and my guest today is Dr

[00:13:30] Jake Hebert who’s an expert on these issues and Dr Hebert so um we were when

[00:13:35] we left off in the last segment we were talking about how you were saying that the Earth uh does seem to be experiencing uh an increase in

[00:13:42] temperatures over the last century but you you were saying that uh Greenland used to be green uh and so are you

[00:13:50] saying that these fluctuations in temperatures are not something we should be alarmed about and uh how do we look

[00:13:56] at this from a creationist perspective yeah I don’t I don’t think should be alarmed I mean uh you’ve had these

[00:14:01] variations in climate over the years you had the medieval warm period what’s interesting is that those who are um

[00:14:09] some of the people who I would say are alarmist on this issue they have tried to erase the historical evidence for

[00:14:15] that warm period uh they’ve tried to minimize it they’ve tried to downplay it because if the Earth if there was a warm

[00:14:22] period And it occurred before we were in any noticeable way affecting the climate

[00:14:29] then that really um is a problem for their view that uh we have to be

[00:14:34] responsible uh for the warming now yeah that that takes that takes the issue out

[00:14:39] of our hands because basically what you’re saying is it has nothing to do with our carbon footprint well you know

[00:14:46] now there’s varying views on this I mean there are some creation scientists who you know some think that we might be

[00:14:52] contributing to some degree uh but most of the creation scientists I think who’ have looked at this think that if the

[00:14:58] the natural variation is probably dominant um and I definitely think it’s

[00:15:03] not something we should be panicking over so so dror Heber if we if we’re all looking at the same data we’re all

[00:15:09] looking at the same science uh you’ve got those who are uh proponent proponents of reducing the carbon

[00:15:15] footprint and so forth and then you’ve got uh others who are saying no it’s not it’s not us um we’re all looking at the

[00:15:22] same data why are we coming to two two such radically different um positions on this issue well it’s really the

[00:15:28] interpret a of the data and um the what you believe about Origins

[00:15:34] really does have a big influence on the way you interpret the data because a lot of the conclusions about uh changes in climate

[00:15:42] or potential future changes in climate are coming from the way that they are interpreting uh chemical data uh from

[00:15:50] sediment cores from the ocean or these ice cores from Greenland and Antarctica

[00:15:56] so so they’re looking oh go ahead sorry go ahead interpreted through an evolutionary old Earth framework and I

[00:16:03] would argue that that’s contributing significantly to the alarmism on this issue okay so so break that down so a

[00:16:10] lay person can understand it when you talk about ice cores and you talked about you talked about siment on the ocean floor sure um explain that there

[00:16:18] okay well there is a quantity that they call the oxygen isotope ratio that they measure Within These sediment cores and

[00:16:25] without getting bogged down in too much detail they think it’s a climate indicator okay now a sediment core a

[00:16:31] sediment core is where they basically drill down into the uh ocean floor and

[00:16:37] they take a basically like a core a cutout of the sediment floor and then

[00:16:43] they look at the different layers of sediment and they’re saying hey these this sediment has settled over time and

[00:16:48] most people from a a evolutionary perspective would say millions and millions of years each layer represents

[00:16:54] millions of years and they’re looking at those different sediment levels is that is that right uh that’s basically correct I mean it’s not that you can

[00:17:00] even really see layering per se but the these chemical Wiggles that they measure

[00:17:06] they think they’re climate indicators and they think that when this particular number that they measure has a really

[00:17:12] high value that’s supposed to indicate an ice age that’s supposed to be when you’ve got the most amount of ice on the

[00:17:20] planet and then when there’s low values of that number this oxygen isotope ratio those are supposed to be warmer periods

[00:17:26] where you have less ice so they’re inter preting these uh chemical Wiggles you

[00:17:31] know when you plot them on a graph they look like a bunch of Wiggles they are interpreting that as a story about

[00:17:37] climate change over hundreds of thousands and even millions of years oh interesting and and so that’s that’s

[00:17:42] what they’re doing and and there’s a reason you know there’s a reason for that because they they’ they’ve also

[00:17:49] concluded that there is a that there is something going on with the earth and its motions uh there’s a really the Ice

[00:17:58] Age is another great example of climate change and uh creation scientists have

[00:18:03] an outstanding explanation for an ice age that just follows naturally uh from The

[00:18:09] Genesis Flood this is work that Michael or has done he’s a former meteorologist for the National Weather Service oh yeah

[00:18:15] I’m I’m actually interviewing him uh in a couple weeks yes he’s done a tremendous amount of work on this uh but

[00:18:21] now the secular scientists have their own theories they’ve got dozens of theories none of them are very good but

[00:18:27] there’s one that’s very popular right now it’s called the malanovic theory or the astronomical Theory and you see that

[00:18:34] name a lot in these discussions uh malanovic was a Serbian scientist who did a lot of work in this area but but

[00:18:41] what they’ve concluded is you know they because they believe the solar system is billions of years old uh they feel free

[00:18:49] to extrapolate Earth’s rotational and orbital motions backwards hundreds of

[00:18:54] thousands and even millions of years and if you assume that you can that uh you’re going to have the tilt of the

[00:19:00] Earth’s axis slowly change over time uh you’re going to have it pointing in a

[00:19:06] different direction there’ll be a wobble of the axis kind of like the a top uh you will have a change in the shape of

[00:19:12] the Earth’s orbit and so on and so forth and they believe that as a result of those changes the way the sunlight is

[00:19:20] falling on the earth varies with season and latitude over many many thousands of years and so basically in a nutshell

[00:19:28] they think that when you have more sunlight falling on the Northern High

[00:19:34] latitude ice sheets uh that they melt and you get a warm period and then when there’s a less sunlight falling on those

[00:19:41] Northern High latitude ice sheets the ice sheets are able to grow and get bigger and you get an ice age and that’s

[00:19:47] basically their theory in a nutshell now there’s lots of problems with this Theory one of which probably the most

[00:19:54] obvious problem is that these are very subtle changes in sunlight and is very

[00:19:59] hard to see how they by themselves could actually be causing an ice age because

[00:20:04] the the amount of sunlight just isn’t enough to heat up the Earth enough the VAR the variation in the sunlight you

[00:20:10] know and so they’ve convinced themselves that there are other factors that can amplify these changes and this is

[00:20:16] actually leading to this idea that our climate is unstable you know that they’ve convinced themselves that the malanovic theory is true but they

[00:20:24] recognize that this uh these changes in sunlight by themselves are really too small to do much so they’ve convinced

[00:20:31] themselves that our climate is unstable and that there are other factors that can amplify these changes and lead to an

[00:20:37] outof control or or a big climate change just from a small change in the in the

[00:20:43] way the sunlight is falling well this is incredible because what this does in in my mind is this is a perfect

[00:20:49] demonstration of how your premise your axium can dramatically impact the

[00:20:55] decisions you make in real life and and a fact laws I mean we have 196 Nations that have signed on saying climate

[00:21:01] change is a huge problem and people say it doesn’t matter whether the Earth is young or old it’s not an issue and yet

[00:21:08] this whole climate change issue is driven by the idea that the Earth is millions of years old that that is

[00:21:13] correct and that is absolutely correct you see if the if the Ice Age really was caused by The Genesis Flood that is a

[00:21:20] never to be repeated event God himself promised that would never happen again that was a huge push to The Climate

[00:21:27] system uh uh and so you in order to get an ice AG you need something like that

[00:21:33] uh these little nudges coming from subtle changes in sunlight that’s just

[00:21:38] not enough to do it and U you know one thing I’ve done recently uh that I’m very proud of uh is some work on this

[00:21:45] malanovic Theory uh where even you know the the evolutionists themselves the

[00:21:50] uniformitarians recognize that there are problems with this Theory yeah Dr Heber

[00:21:56] I I hate to cut you off here we’re coming up on here on a break and got to give my advertisers a chance to

[00:22:02] advertise right so keep the show going so uh my guest today is Dr Jake Hebert uh he is an

[00:22:09] expert on climate and we’re talking about climate change um he’s actually speaking soon at Bridge Bible Fellowship

[00:22:15] in Retta California Wednesday June 21st at 700 p.m. if you want to actually hear him in person but if you want to check

[00:22:22] out his papers and more information about him icr.org you can check him out we’re going to continue this

[00:22:27] conversation we’ll be right back iing

[00:22:35] heart did you know that Denver Broncos quarterback Tim TBO was homeschooled along with all four of his siblings by

[00:22:42] his mom Pam TBO you’re invited to hear Pam share how to successfully educate

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[00:23:01] Friday and Saturday August 4th and 5th presented by the creation and Earth History Museum in Santi featuring

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[00:23:28] life.com that’s register educate forlife.com hi this is Jason Hall

[00:23:34] president of Team Home Loans a branch of synergy1 lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover

[00:23:40] for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:23:46] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be Defenders of our faith it’s

[00:23:52] our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show it is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn

[00:23:58] to be Defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for Life teachings thank you

[00:24:04] Kevin from the hall family and team Home Loans this is throughout all ages

[00:24:09] Ministry with Joe and Stacy we would like to equip you to share the gospel with confidence in a Biblical and

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[00:24:39] all away no more hiding no

[00:24:45] moreing thanks for tuning in to educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover my website’s educate forlife.org you can

[00:24:52] pick up a recording of this show or past shows I also want to make you aware of our first homeschool conference we’re

[00:24:58] put it on this uh this summer August 4th and 5th uh over at the creation and Earth History Museum and we’re going to

[00:25:04] have all kinds of speakers one of them being Pam TBO Tim tbo’s mom uh she homeschooled all five of her kids and uh

[00:25:11] she has a passion for uh inspiring and encouraging uh moms as they rais their

[00:25:17] children all the way back in 1982 she was a homeschooled Pioneer and we’ll have all kinds of other um speakers

[00:25:22] including myself talking about issues that pertain to education and making sure that your kids uh fall in love with

[00:25:29] the Lord and stay in love with the Lord that’s our goal is for them to be able to defend the word of God defend the Bible and be able to uh share that the

[00:25:36] love of Jesus with other people confidently uh knowing that what they believe is the truth and my guest today

[00:25:42] uh does this on a regular basis in science Dr Jake Hebert he is an expert on climate and uh works for icr he’s a

[00:25:50] research scientist and uh Dr Heber um when we when we left off we were talking

[00:25:56] about what’s going on here with the difference between the two perspectives and and how dramatic uh what you believe

[00:26:01] about these issues um affect laws and uh the way you think the decisions you make

[00:26:07] uh in regards to these issues and you were saying that um the creationist perspective is that this is a one-time

[00:26:13] event the flood was a onetime event which caused the Ice Age versus contrasting that with an evolutionary

[00:26:19] perspective which says we’ve had multiple ice ages and we’ve got to make sure we don’t we don’t do something to

[00:26:26] cause another one is that right right that’s exactly right and you know they claim that there have been 50 ice ages

[00:26:32] within the last 2.6 million years oh wow and and and the geological evidence for

[00:26:37] that is very weak there is strong evidence for one ice age but the main reason they are claiming that there were

[00:26:43] 50 ice ages is because they have constructed this composite oxygen

[00:26:49] isotope signal that I was describing earlier from a whole bunch of different cores from around the ocean and when

[00:26:55] they look at it they see 50 Cycles 50 wiggle Cycles if you will and

[00:27:01] so therefore they’ve concluded there’s 50 ice ages okay now so here’s my question for you that pertains to this

[00:27:07] when it comes to looking at the sediment on the ocean floor because you’re saying they translate that into millions of

[00:27:12] years and they say see you can tell by these uh changes in the the the isotope level or you look at ice cores uh and

[00:27:20] maybe you can explain that too for our listeners they they look at the ice course and they say Trace you follow the ice course back you you follow the ocean

[00:27:27] sediment back and you can see these changes these indicates high and low temperatures so what is the creationist

[00:27:34] response to that why would you say no that’s not what this indicates so from a creationist science perspective what do

[00:27:41] these ice core uh uh and and ocean sediment levels what do they mean from

[00:27:47] from our perspective well well you know these these variables could very well be

[00:27:52] you know they probably are climate related or weather related uh our big problem is with the time scale

[00:27:58] and um as I was saying earlier uh the evolutionists recognize that they they problems with this milanovich Ice Age

[00:28:05] Theory but the reason they believe it is because of a paper that was published 40 years ago in the journal science called

[00:28:12] the pacemaker of the ice ages and what these scientists did was they examined these chemical Wiggles as well as two

[00:28:19] other variables in two sediment cores from the Indian Ocean and when they did

[00:28:24] that they found these Cycles uh supposedly of 100,000 41,000

[00:28:29] or 42,000 and 23,000 years which are very close to some of these astronomical

[00:28:36] cycles and so this was seen as a very strong evidence for the milanovich theory and this paper is so important

[00:28:43] that last December both science and nature ran articles commemorating its

[00:28:48] 40th anniversary interesting now uh the one thing I’m very proud of here is that I took a second look at that paper and I

[00:28:55] found a major problem in it and that is that when they were setting up their time scales for those two cores they

[00:29:03] used the number that they themselves no longer accept as valid they changed the

[00:29:08] number and they changed it a lot and I went back and redid the calculations using the new number and it

[00:29:14] significantly messes up their results but they never went back to see what

[00:29:20] that would do to those original results so I have published those results they have been on the internet since last

[00:29:26] September so somebody wants to check that out where where can they take a look at that yes well there’s lots of

[00:29:32] places the if you want to read the primary sources they’re at the Answers in Genesis website uh they have a

[00:29:38] journal called the answers research journal and if you go to volume nine uh

[00:29:44] which is the 2016 there are you have to kind there’s three papers that I did one was published in March I believe the

[00:29:51] other was in May and the other was in September and they explain the details

[00:29:56] of this paper uh first I showed that I could replicate the original results um

[00:30:01] which was important you know that’s it’s good to verify that you can do that and then I went back and redid the redid the

[00:30:07] calculations after taking into account that age change and it it messed it up

[00:30:13] and so to me this is scandalous uh you know they’re still using this argument uh this paper as an

[00:30:20] argument for this milanovich Theory and even though I these results have been out there for anybody to read for eight

[00:30:27] months have not seen a single public response uh from the secularists on this

[00:30:33] they have they haven’t said one word now what is the number that you were referring to that’s that they’ve CH they

[00:30:39] no longer uh abide by okay uh it was something it was the mo the age for the

[00:30:45] most recent flip of the Earth’s magnetic field uh they call it the brunes

[00:30:50] matuyama magnetic reversal boundary and uh you know and then we creationist

[00:30:57] there were flips the Earth’s magnetic field we creationists would argue that that occurred that was associated with

[00:31:02] The Genesis Flood it was caused by The Genesis Flood and may have continued for some time after but there were dozens of

[00:31:09] these flips of the Earth’s magnetic field now how does that happen how does the Earth magnetic field FL well well

[00:31:15] one of the think the thinking is is that uh we’ve got different ideas but the one

[00:31:20] that I think is most promising has to do with catastrophic plate tectonics and the idea that you had um rapid

[00:31:28] subduction of uh seafloor down into the the mantle and it came into to contact

[00:31:35] with a core and when you had the relatively cold blob coming in contact with that cold outer core uh it set up

[00:31:44] convection which ultimately would have led to these magnetic reversals that’s the thinking and Russ humph has done

[00:31:50] quite a bit of work on that but but the B the bottom line though is that they

[00:31:55] assigned an age to that magnetic revers of 700,000 years which is the number

[00:32:01] they used to set up their time scale for the cores but in

[00:32:06] 1990 they proposed changing that number to 780,000 years so that’s an 880,000

[00:32:12] year difference uh they that’s really basically the accepted age right now

[00:32:18] some of them however even say that it ought to be as high as 790,000 and of course the greater the

[00:32:25] discrepancy between the original and the new age the worse the agreement will be uh with these uh the malanovic

[00:32:32] expectations so the more they increase that number the worse the original pacemaker results are going to be and uh

[00:32:40] and so yeah and so you know and then my background is in physics I you know I’m not really a climatologist or meteorologist per se but I’ve been

[00:32:47] involved in a couple of big research projects that are very much relevant to this issue and that was one of them yeah

[00:32:54] that’s that’s amazing And for those yeah go ahead and like I said I mean I think it’s a scandal I mean this is an iconic

[00:33:02] paper uh I mean it doesn’t really speak very well of the secular uh clim

[00:33:08] paleoclimatology Community because it means one of two things either they were

[00:33:13] unaware that this paper made that assumption and to be fair to them the paper didn’t explicitly say what the age

[00:33:21] was you had to you had to go back and read another paper that was published 3 years early and that’s probably the

[00:33:26] reason that a bunch of people overlooked this yeah yeah well my guess never but nevertheless it doesn’t look good and it

[00:33:33] what the but the worst thing would be did they know about it and they just didn’t care yeah absolutely it’s been

[00:33:39] eight months since since these results have been out there my guess uh hold on

[00:33:45] Dr Hebert my guest today is Dr Jake Hebert we’re going to be right back we’re going to continue to talk about climate change but we’re going to also

[00:33:51] talk about um what is the creationist perspective if we don’t agree with the 50 ice ages what’s the explanation for

[00:33:58] the ice age from a creationist perspective a creation science perspective stay with us we’re going to be right

[00:34:09] back hi this is Jason Hall president of Team Home Loans a branch of synergy1

[00:34:14] lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for the profound impact he’s had on mine and

[00:34:20] my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and

[00:34:25] passion have taught us all how important it is to be Defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin

[00:34:31] and his show it is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn to be Defenders of your faith through

[00:34:36] Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for Life teachings thank you Kevin from the hall family and team Home

[00:34:43] Loans this is throughout all ages Ministry with Joe and Stacy we would like to equip you to share the gospel

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[00:35:01] without excuse one onone evangelism how do you think you can get to heaven never really thought about it but I’ve always

[00:35:06] thought of you know doing good more information go throughout allages.com like us on Facebook or visit us at YouTube at throughout all ages when you

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[00:36:14] coffee.com there’s be more going back and welcome to educate

[00:36:20] for life I’m your host Kevin Conover thanks so much for tuning in today I hope you’re enjoying the show you can

[00:36:25] also check us out on YouTube uh if you want to uh see me smiling here in the studio uh today uh my guest Dr Heber is

[00:36:32] actually calling in and uh we’re also podcast too you can check us out on Facebook I’ll I’ll do some posts about

[00:36:38] this um and it’s such an important issue uh climate change you know people we’re

[00:36:44] facing dramatic legislative issues because of this this issue of carbon

[00:36:50] emissions so uh car manufacturers for example are facing U they they have to

[00:36:56] do more research about their car they have to try to lower the amount of carbon dioxide that that cars are emitting and um you have coal and oil

[00:37:04] companies that are having to deal with the financial consequences of a lot of legislation regarding climate change so

[00:37:09] these issues are a really big deal uh they have practical real world implications and so my guest today Dr

[00:37:16] Jay keber is talking about how um from a Biblical perspective there’s only been one Ice Age and it wasn’t generated by

[00:37:22] people’s carbon emissions um or or methane from cows right um on the other

[00:37:28] hand if you’re coming from an evolutionary perspective and you have a secular perspective or a long AG

[00:37:33] perspective then you’re thinking hey um we have something to do with uh global

[00:37:38] warming and climate change and therefore uh we need to cut down on our carbon emissions and so it’s a very very

[00:37:44] significant issue especially considering Trump just recently pulled out of the uh Paris agreement and uh you have 196

[00:37:51] Nations signing on to that uh so this science and uh Biblical history is very

[00:37:56] important in ards to this issue now Dr Heber you were saying that um you have some articles that have been published

[00:38:02] scientific articles that have been published that aren’t uh public knowledge yet is that right uh yes yes

[00:38:08] uh you know I did my papers uh that were published in the answers research Journal at Answers in Genesis but one

[00:38:14] thing I also did is I submitted two papers that have already been published in the Journal of creation which is the

[00:38:21] publication of creation Ministries International and what I really like about these papers is they show you how

[00:38:27] lay people can partially verify my results without having to do the hard

[00:38:33] math now these papers I’m hoping they will become publicly available or

[00:38:39] accessible uh in maybe March or April of next year they’re not open access yet

[00:38:45] yeah but subscribers to the Journal of creation uh can access those right now

[00:38:50] but what I really like about those papers is it is possible for even high school students to partially confirm my

[00:38:57] results and the reason for that is that uh when they changed the you know they they did the hard math already basically

[00:39:04] they already did the the very hard math but then they just changed the time scale so you don’t necessarily have to

[00:39:11] redo the hard math the calculus you just have to rescale the results to fit the

[00:39:17] new time scales and and it’s that’s fairly easy to do and so one thing I’m

[00:39:22] excited about is that uh I’m hoping that others will be able to see that uh

[00:39:27] partially verify these results yeah that’s fantastic and and that’s great because if a if a high school kid is

[00:39:33] doing a science project and wants to be able to you know talk about climate change and these issues which these issues definitely come up in high school

[00:39:39] or college a college kid wants to uh you know deal with these issues um then

[00:39:45] that’s a valuable resource for them to be able to go to creation.com answers and Genesis do.org or or icr.org and

[00:39:53] look up the the work you’ve done that’s fantastic right right so also if you

[00:39:58] happen to be in Retta California uh Dr Hebert is actually going to be speaking Wednesday June 21st 700 p.m. at The

[00:40:04] Bridge Bible Fellowship you can uh meet him in person and talk to him that’s a great opportunity there um so Dr Hebert

[00:40:11] let’s talk about um the the contrasting position so somebody’s listening and

[00:40:17] they’re going okay this all sounds amazing it all sounds great you’ve really uh done a lot of poking holes

[00:40:22] into uh the malovich theory uh also known as the astronomical Theory

[00:40:27] um so so what’s your explanation then for those ice cores what’s your explanation for the different isotope

[00:40:34] levels in the sediment um from a from a creationist perspective a Biblical creationist perspective how does the

[00:40:40] flood create an Ice Age and and what What alternative Theory can you propose that makes sense scientifically well uh

[00:40:49] this it’s not really my theory per se it’s Mike ORS but I can I can summarize it for you and it’s it’s really

[00:40:55] brilliant uh the basic idea is that during The Genesis Flood you would have had a the the oceans would have been

[00:41:02] significantly warmed uh we we think primarily by a lot of uh plate motion uh

[00:41:08] due to catastrophic plate tectonics so so for our people listening uh Dr Heber

[00:41:13] for the people listening so the Bible says that the All The Fountains of the deep exploded on one day right right

[00:41:19] right so you’re are you referring to when you say the oceans would have been heated significantly how does that

[00:41:24] heating take place well what most of us think is that uh because of this

[00:41:29] catastrophic plate tectonics you had a lot of seaf floor that was formed extremely rapidly uh if you have uh you

[00:41:37] know ocean floor being destroyed going down into the mantle new sea floor has

[00:41:42] to be created and that if that happened very fast you know when you have all this lava coming into contact or you

[00:41:49] know molten rock coming into contact with the ocean uh there’s going to be a lot of heat given off and so the the

[00:41:55] thinking is is that significant warm the oceans maybe 10 or 20° C what that does

[00:42:01] in turn in the acrm that I use to help people remember these key points is heat h e a t the H stands for hot oceans the

[00:42:10] E stands for evaporation you know if you significantly warm the surface temperature of the oceans you’re going

[00:42:15] to get a lot more evaporation yeah and that’s going to put a lot more moisture into the atmosphere which in turn is

[00:42:22] going to result in a lot more precipitation including snowfall high

[00:42:27] latitudes and on mountaintops and so we think what happened was that you had an enormous amount of snowfall uh much more

[00:42:34] so than you would expect in uniformitarian thinking uh where it’s always been relatively slow and gradual

[00:42:41] here you’re having all this snow being dumped uh on mountaintops and at high

[00:42:46] latitudes and the idea is that if that snow can build up uh you’re going to get thick ice sheets to form and so that

[00:42:54] gives us the increased snow but then you also have to keep the snow from melting uh that’s the other key you’ve got to

[00:42:59] keep the snow from melting in the summer and the a stands for aerosols and these are little particles or droplets

[00:43:06] resulting from volcanic explosions uh volcanic eruptions we think that there there would have

[00:43:12] definitely been volcanic activity during the flood particularly toward the latter

[00:43:17] half and afterwards and so what’s going to happen is they’re going to be putting

[00:43:22] these aerosols up into the atmosphere those aerosols will reflect sunlight and they will give you a cooling effect

[00:43:29] that’s going to be the most pronounced during the summer and Autumn months and so that’s going to keep the snow and ice

[00:43:35] from melting now the aerosols fall out of the atmosphere after a couple of years but if you keep having volcanic

[00:43:41] activity which would be expected you know this is not going to all come to a screeching halt yeah it’s going to keep

[00:43:47] going for many years after the flood that’s going to keep keep keep giving you those cool Summers and so the ice

[00:43:54] will build up and so the tea stands for time basically the short time scale is

[00:43:59] what you need to make this work and you know time the evolutionists have a

[00:44:04] problem with time uh you know you would think you know that explanation I gave you seems fairly straightforward and it

[00:44:11] is why then can’t secular scientists make better use of these volcanic

[00:44:17] eruptions to give them the necessary cooling they need well it’s because they

[00:44:22] believe those eruptions were separated by vast amounts of time so the Aeros CS

[00:44:28] wouldn’t do the job if you exactly if you believe in the millions of years you believe those volcanoes had to be spaced

[00:44:34] far apart in time and any cooling effect that you would get would be so diluted

[00:44:41] that it wouldn’t do anything wow what we see here is that the biblical time scale is not a problem it’s the answer it’s

[00:44:49] the answer to help us explain the Ice Age and there’s other aspects about the ice age that this model can explain that

[00:44:56] the secular science scientist can’t okay well when we come back I want to talk about that I want to talk about uh more

[00:45:01] of this scientific explanations that you’re talking about my guest today is Dr Jake Hebert he’s with icr.org and

[00:45:07] we’re talking about climate change and how the flood actually precipitated the The Ice Age and uh not 50 ice ages the

[00:45:15] Ice Age so we’ll be right [Music] back did you know that Denver Broncos

[00:45:23] quarterback Tim TBO was homeschooled along with all four of his siblings by his mom Pam tibo you’re invited to hear

[00:45:30] Pam share how to successfully educate your children with a Biblical worldview at San Diego County’s only homeschool

[00:45:37] conference hear local experts as they give you the tools you’ll need to help you teach your children don’t miss the

[00:45:43] educate for Life homeschool conference Friday and Saturday August 4th and 5th presented by the creation and Earth

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[00:46:48] Marina across from SeaWorld 61922 2766 hi this is Jason Hall president of

[00:46:55] Team Home Loans a branch of synergy One Lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for

[00:47:01] the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:47:06] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be Defenders of our faith it’s

[00:47:12] our honor and privilege to support Kevin and his show it is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn

[00:47:18] to be Defenders of your faith through Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for Life teachings thank you

[00:47:24] Kevin from the hall family and team home loans I will cast my on

[00:47:32] you you’re the an welcome to educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover we’re on our last segment here I just wanted

[00:47:39] to uh make you aware August 4th and 5th coming up here we have our first homeschool conference uh Pam TBO the

[00:47:45] mother of Tim tibo is uh one of our speakers she is uh homeschooled all five of her kids um back in 1982 when

[00:47:53] homeschooling was just getting started and our goal is really to help you uh in your efforts to homeschool homeschooling

[00:47:58] is growing by Leaps and Bounds there’s numerous people that are joining The Homeschool movement and um just learning

[00:48:05] how to effectively educate your children uh so that they are prepared to uh not

[00:48:11] only get a good career but also uh maintain their walk with the Lord Jesus Christ and um establish a strong

[00:48:17] biblical faith my guest today is Dr Jake kebert from icr and they have all kinds of materials that um would supplement

[00:48:24] your education and help you help your kids to understand uh creation science

[00:48:30] and uh science in light of the Bible um and what I found is that the more I look

[00:48:35] at science biblically the more um it connects and makes sense and that’s what we’re talking about right now is the

[00:48:41] climate and the flood and how that all works together so Dr Heber um can you continue where you left off just

[00:48:46] explaining um you know when you look at two different theories about how something happened right uh what I

[00:48:53] understand is that we want to go with a theory that has the most explanatory power if we’re looking as an unbiased

[00:48:59] objective uh you know scientifically minded person and so what what can you

[00:49:05] tell our listeners about um why you’ve decided the biblical flood is the answer

[00:49:11] to the Ice Age versus you know long ages what science supports your perspective

[00:49:17] well uh I think first of all there’s overwhelming evidence for the flood itself uh you know you’ve got uh these

[00:49:23] water deposited rocks all over the world uh you have in tuned within those rocks

[00:49:29] you’ve got billions of fossils what do you mean by water deposited rocks explain that well these are rocks these

[00:49:34] are rocks where that are formed when material Drops Out of Water um you and so so you have material that’s being

[00:49:41] transported by running water and if the water slows down you it’ll it can drop

[00:49:46] out now how do you know that they’re how do you know they’re water deposited rocks oh well that’s that’s really not

[00:49:52] controversial I mean even uh Evolution I mean you know you look at the material uh uh there’s

[00:49:59] um well we they’ve done Flume experiments things like that I mean it’s not controversial I was watching I was

[00:50:05] watching a a show on this it was actually on Nova and they called him erratics and they said the reason they

[00:50:10] knew it was from a flood was because the boulder was composed of a completely

[00:50:16] different material than what it was sitting on and they said this had to be carried here by a by some sort of a

[00:50:21] flood is that right uh that that could be although sometimes when they talk

[00:50:26] about erratics they’re actually talking about things that are Ice Age deposits where okay well like you have a glacier

[00:50:32] and something a boulder gets it’s moving along with the ice and then the ice melts or something like that but but but

[00:50:39] but but but getting back to um you know the you know just the even the

[00:50:45] evolutionists admit most of these sedimentary rocks are water deposited now they try to argue that these are

[00:50:51] local floods or whatever or you know they can’t be flood deposits for whatever reasons but Mo most most of

[00:50:56] them I mean even they acknowledge that most of these are water deposited so that’s that’s one reason I think uh that

[00:51:04] this is a better explanation another reason has to do with the woolly mammoths and this is something else that

[00:51:09] Michael or figured out uh that the woolly mammoths are an enigma to evolutionary scientists for a couple of

[00:51:15] reasons first uh there is good strong evidence that they were living in Siberia by the

[00:51:22] millions during the Ice Age now the reason that’s a problem is that winter in Siberia are extremely cold uh I mean

[00:51:30] some of the coldest temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere have been recorded there and it is hard to see how even the

[00:51:36] woolly mammoths could withstand that uh and even if they could where are they going to get food and water I mean

[00:51:41] Siberia today you know you’ve got it’s just not it’s it’s not a place that you would expect mammoths to be able to

[00:51:48] survive and and some people might say oh well maybe they migrated well that’s problematic too for a number of reasons

[00:51:55] uh you know the station time for a mammoth is long enough that it doesn’t seem like it would be reasonable for

[00:52:01] them to go back and forth between Siberia and and warmer period yeah so so

[00:52:07] but but here the the the the pro the way the creation model explains that has to

[00:52:12] do with the hot oceans uh you know the what we think happened was that after

[00:52:18] the flood uh there was there were much warmer oceans and we think there was no

[00:52:23] Arctic sea ice immediately after the flood uh we think the Arctic sea ice formed at the end of the Ice Age when

[00:52:31] all this ice was melting and all this melt water went out onto the Arctic and

[00:52:36] then it then it froze and then you got the sea ice well because the Arctic sea ice was not there you have this you have

[00:52:44] this a warm ocean next to Siberia and you have a warm moist air that’s

[00:52:49] moderating the climate and so prior to that uh before the sea ice

[00:52:56] was formed the climate would have been more temperate it it was probably still cold but it was nowhere near as cold as

[00:53:02] it is now and so that is a very simple straightforward explanation for how the mammoths could have lived and thrived in

[00:53:11] Siberia um and you know and and so uh the this the reason the evolutionists

[00:53:16] can’t use that argument is quite simple they believe based on their understanding of Earth history that that

[00:53:22] Arctic sea ice was there first present like millions of years ago now some of

[00:53:29] them claim well maybe the arctic ice melted but the bottom line is that they believe that by the time the mammoths

[00:53:36] were there that Arctic sea ice was already there and so they can’t use that

[00:53:41] simple explanation to explain how it would have been more tolerable for the mammoth and so again we see that their

[00:53:48] belief in millions of years is tripping them up and making it hard for them to explain that and and so and of course

[00:53:55] the extinction of the woolly mammoths too um that I think is something that makes sense in light of the the the

[00:54:02] creation Ice Age model um basically we think that at the end of the ice age uh

[00:54:08] there were strong winds uh colder temperatures which is maybe a little

[00:54:13] counterintuitive but we think they were overcome by those cold temperatures and in a lot of cases they were buried in

[00:54:19] massive dust storms and when we look at these Mammoth carcasses that they we

[00:54:25] find they are actually found in tombed in a lot of cases in these big mounds or

[00:54:30] Hills of wind blown silt and so that’s consistent uh with this explanation for

[00:54:36] uh that’s very interesting huh and for those who would like to read more about it Mike or has done there’s a book

[00:54:42] called Frozen in time which deals with this specifically uh there’s also a technical article at creation.com that

[00:54:49] he wrote on the extinction of the woolly mammoths uh and there were some early ideas about that that we now think

[00:54:55] weren’t quite right okay uh you know there was sort of a sort of urban legend that there was a dramatic 100°

[00:55:01] Fahrenheit temperature drop and they were snap Frozen uh we don’t think that’s the case uh some people there

[00:55:08] were even creationists who said that earlier but we we I think Mike’s explanation is really the better one

[00:55:13] that’s great well we we do here butt we’re almost out of time here I mean we got about a minute and 15 seconds can

[00:55:19] you explain real quick um what is the creationist explanation for the ice cores okay well obviously all of that

[00:55:26] ice was deposited After the flood we think about half of it if you’re looking at depth was probably during the Ice Age

[00:55:33] and the bottom line is that most of that ice uh you know you would have had enormous amounts of snowfall during the

[00:55:40] ice stage so that ice is going to accumulate quickly and now the evolutionist will try to tell you that

[00:55:45] they uh counted individual annual layers of Ice uh you know maybe a 100,000 years

[00:55:52] or even more than that but when you look at the details of their dating methods they’re not very convincing and uh the

[00:55:59] most common method of dating the ice cores are models theoretical age date models which assume millions of years

[00:56:06] yeah so there it’s circular circular reasoning essentially it is circular and and and now they they have a rebuttal to

[00:56:12] that they claim the Greenland cores you can actually count but it turns out when you look at the details it’s not a it’s not a it’s not

[00:56:20] irti by any means and we’ve actually got articles at icr.org that explain in

[00:56:25] detail yeah why while the ice cores do not prove millions of years well Dr Hebert

[00:56:31] uh we are we are out of time here so very sadly because there’s this is such an interesting subject but uh thank you

[00:56:37] so much for being on the show today oh yes my pleasure thanks for having me absolutely check him out uh icr.org

[00:56:43] creation.com answersingenesis.org all kinds of important information there um

[00:56:48] what you believe about reality affects the decisions you make in the present and um that’s why climate change is such

[00:56:55] a big issue so so uh go to the Bible it’s the truth uh build your life upon it you can’t lose if you do God bless

[00:57:01] you I hope you have a fantastic Saturday hope to see you August 4th and 5th at the homeschool conference here in San Diego California did you miss part of

[00:57:09] today’s program don’t worry we’re committed to helping you get the info you need okay that was dumb but for real

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