Teaching Bible in Public School with Brock Bailey

[00:00:00] thanks for being here today my name is kevin conover and you’re listening to educate for life radio we’re broadcast

[00:00:05] down here in southern california on kpr z 12 10 am as well as fm 106.1 in north

[00:00:10] county and i wanted to start off this is an old uh court case it’s an old article this is really interesting it says here

[00:00:17] christian worldview class deemed okay a spartanburg county high school in south

[00:00:22] carolina has been watching i’m sorry has been awarding two credits to students who take a christian worldview class at

[00:00:29] an off-campus religious school freedom from religion foundation sued the district to stop schools from accepting

[00:00:35] the credits contending it is a violation of the establishment clause the school won the initial case and the appeal now

[00:00:42] freedom from religion religion foundation has attempted to convince the supreme court to hear the case the

[00:00:47] highest court in the land refused basically agreeing with a lower court ruling orrin smith of south carolina’s

[00:00:53] palmetto family council applauded the latest ruling they’re not teaching the bible only as history and literature

[00:00:59] which would be wonderful these classes are teaching the bible as scripture as the word of god to receive a high school

[00:01:06] credit for that is significant about 200 of the 1500 students in the spartanburg school district have taken the class now

[00:01:12] that’s a pretty old article that’s all the way back in 2012 and you know i’ve always been interested in the subjects

[00:01:18] because i’ve always felt that it was strange that we didn’t teach more of the bible in public schools and

[00:01:24] when i saw the history of the teaching of the bible in public schools historically in our country i noticed

[00:01:31] that in the past if you didn’t know this originally the very first public schools were started to teach kids how to read the bible the

[00:01:37] whole focus was you can’t know the word of god unless you’re able to read so we better get more kids to be able to read

[00:01:44] and so um it’s very exciting for me to see you know release time

[00:01:50] spreading and growing and more kids having the opportunity to take these classes they are voluntary which is really cool and uh i was at a homeschool

[00:01:57] convention not too long ago and i bumped into uh brock bailey and uh we’re really

[00:02:03] grateful that he’s gonna be on the program and the reason is is because he is a release time teacher in south

[00:02:08] carolina he’s been doing this for a while now and let me tell you a little bit about him he’s a bible teacher and coach he’s also a leader

[00:02:15] at uh canon memorial baptist church youth leader in central south carolina

[00:02:20] he teaches release time bible classes at rc edwards middle school and he’s been

[00:02:25] doing that since 2018 and he’s also worked uh with crew family life as a

[00:02:30] missionary with them he’s also a pe and health teacher and he’s a cross-country

[00:02:36] and track coach so uh brock thanks a lot for being here today thank you glad to be here

[00:02:43] yeah fantastic i was so excited when i bumped into you you know i’ve never honestly before you and i met at that

[00:02:49] convention i had never um actually met somebody who actively taught release time education and uh

[00:02:55] that’s why i wanted you to be on the program because i think it’s really cool to see um to hear from

[00:03:01] somebody that’s been doing this for a while and also inspiring maybe to somebody who’s thought hey how can i

[00:03:07] minister in my local public school what can i do so can you tell us a little bit about how

[00:03:12] did this start like how did you get started with being involved with release time education is this something you

[00:03:18] knew about for a long time or was this something that you know kind of popped up give us the the back story here yes

[00:03:23] sir but my um and uncle my wife saw the family were released time teachers for several

[00:03:30] years and they kept telling me you need to come teach need to come teach i was like no no i can’t do that i’m teaching

[00:03:35] pe at the time i’m i’m coaching cross country and then god cost him the full-time missions and we went and

[00:03:41] served with crew and family life and uh and that kind of guys in the edge in the ministry and then god made it very clear

[00:03:49] it was just time to come back home and home is near clemson south carolina and we had no clue what the next step was

[00:03:54] going to be uh we just knew god says time to move back and we moved back the position opened up to teach release time

[00:04:00] and that’s now my fourth year uh teaching that i’ve spent four years teaching i’m going to my fifth year here

[00:04:06] in two weeks that is so incredible um so uh where were you a missionary before you came back to uh south carolina and

[00:04:13] uh we were actually in little rock arkansas and uh we’re working with a family and marriage ministry trying to

[00:04:18] uh uh you know just help marriages thrive and to uh to help you know individuals learn about

[00:04:24] biblical manhood and womanhood and how to live out a biblical world view within the family context

[00:04:30] that’s great you know a lot of times you hear people think they have to they have to leave the country to be a missionary

[00:04:35] but there’s a lot of need right here where we’re at right well the great commission is we’re all missionaries you can be a missionary

[00:04:41] firefighter you can be a missionary um you know english teacher in a public school you can be a missionary nurse

[00:04:46] wherever it is the true great commissions that we’re all missionaries wherever we go amen that’s that’s

[00:04:52] fantastic i think that’s something that you know we need to um teach more in the in the local churches

[00:04:58] is that you know it doesn’t matter whether you’re an engineer it doesn’t matter whether you work at you know

[00:05:03] you know wherever it might be uh in and out or uh here in california in and out uh or whatever um you have the

[00:05:09] opportunity to uh be an influence there uh among those people so that’s really cool i love that

[00:05:15] philosophy and that perspective um so so when you got when you said that there

[00:05:20] was a position that opened up in release time um what do you mean by that because this isn’t like

[00:05:26] schools don’t don’t um run release time programs so what does that mean when you

[00:05:32] set a position opened up so yes so the release time program is run through a local board and so

[00:05:39] we uh have teachers in all five middle schools in my county and so it’s picking county south carolina it’s the same

[00:05:45] county that clemson university is in and uh so all five middle schools have a teaching position

[00:05:51] funded by the local ministry the nonprofit ministry and so um

[00:05:56] whenever we move back into town the a pastor of the church that we actually meet at to teach at uh had been teaching

[00:06:02] it and he was looking to you know spend more time uh focused on his ministry which is you know leading the local

[00:06:09] church and this position opened up and and god just uh you know just it was smooth sailing we moved back i had

[00:06:16] probably like a two or three month uh window try did some odd jobs and then rolled right into release time and so uh

[00:06:23] and the director of release time uh brian hill is his name and he likes to always say it this way you know it’s a

[00:06:29] calling it’s not a you you’re not really it’s not a job you know this is a calling that god has placed on us

[00:06:34] because you know being a non-profit ministry we’re not making that much money we’re not there’s not a lot of you know bells and whistles so to speak and

[00:06:40] we’re dependent upon uh partners who give so we can teach in the bible to public school students and so uh so it’s

[00:06:47] really it’s a calling that we’ve answered to to me the need to help educate these students uh in the bible

[00:06:53] and what god’s word is and how to live it out amen that’s awesome so so um

[00:07:00] tell us do you what what is the history of release time as far as you know for a lot of people even when i posted this

[00:07:06] when i began to post that i was going to be talking about this and i said teaching the bible you know in public schools and a bunch of people freak out

[00:07:12] and they’re just like yes no no you can’t do that and and um even christians you know it’s not yes it’s not a lot of

[00:07:18] christians are like well we don’t want to do that you know and and uh they’re they’re afraid that somehow

[00:07:24] um the government is going to start you know getting their hands

[00:07:29] uh in the church and everything there and there’s a big concern there and um so can you give us a little bit of

[00:07:34] background on the history of release time and and uh you know uh maybe uh maybe uh put

[00:07:40] some people’s minds at ease as far as like you know uh what’s going to happen here are we mixing uh the government and

[00:07:47] and the church or what’s going on definitely yeah definitely and when i share with people what i do they’re like

[00:07:53] you you do that after school right that’s an after school club yeah that’s natural after-school program and i know

[00:07:58] i teach as an elective course during the school day um at all our schools we

[00:08:03] teach between three and six courses every day uh i’ve told over the past four years either five classes a day or

[00:08:09] six classes one hour classes every day and so kind of back up and give the history of back in 1914 so over

[00:08:15] 100 years ago uh dr william worked w-i-r-t from gary indiana actually

[00:08:21] started release time and i came to the number several hundred people uh went through it there and he

[00:08:26] was the superintendent of the schools and uh and he went and several hundred people went through it uh that very first year back in 1914 and it’s just

[00:08:33] grown since uh currently today uh there’s over a thousand different programs just like ours pickens county

[00:08:39] uh across the united states 32 different states and when i looked at the staff over 350 000 students annually are

[00:08:46] getting to learn about god’s word the bible during the school day and so here’s yeah yeah it’s amazing

[00:08:55] yeah so here’s kind of the three parameters uh you must have parent regarding permission to be able to

[00:09:00] participate so you know a kid can’t just go and jump into class you have to have a legal permission from your parent or guardian uh the instruction must be off

[00:09:08] of school grounds so no teaching on school grounds and then there must not be any government funds so there’s no

[00:09:13] state or federal funding that goes to release time we don’t get any state or federal funding all our funding is from

[00:09:18] uh the local community local churches and individuals who give who partner with us so that we can

[00:09:24] do what we do and so uh so since 1914 but here’s the cool thing in 1952

[00:09:30] a supreme court case actually looked at this a supreme court case 1952 upheld

[00:09:35] that the release time programs are legal it was a free exercise religion of the first amendment that’s what they cited

[00:09:42] is that this can be done as long as those three parameters parent legal guardian consent

[00:09:48] off school property and no funding from the state or federal government and so that was back in 1952 and so that’s

[00:09:54] probably why the article you saw the very beginning that’s why they had no grounds to to really make a case because

[00:09:59] that there was previous uh precedent of release time it’s already been established

[00:10:07] uh well that that is uh really great i just think that’s so wonderful because you

[00:10:12] know a bit a big part of the thing that a lot of christians are frustrated with is the fact that

[00:10:20] the bible used to be taught in public schools on a regular basis um regardless of release time and

[00:10:25] you know there seems to be have been this push out pushing the bible out of public schools for a long time now and yet here

[00:10:32] uh many kids are getting the opportunity to hear this you know in your experience you’re what do you say you’re going on your fifth year now is that right yes

[00:10:38] sir your fifth year yeah so would you do all the kids that come in are they

[00:10:44] already christians or are there kids that come in that aren’t christians and are kind of you know exploring what

[00:10:49] what’s been your experience there well well i would say here’s the national stat of 70 percent

[00:10:56] so 7-0 plus 70 of all students who participate in release time do not attend church regularly and so that’s

[00:11:03] that’s a nationwide step now i would say we’re probably i don’t have a hard number but probably

[00:11:09] at my school probably 50 are regular church attenders i’d use that term because

[00:11:14] even if they’re a regular church attender i don’t know where they’re at their hearts at i don’t know if they’ve made a decision for christ yeah sure

[00:11:20] they’re probably about 50 percent of regular church attendance and 50 percent they’ve never their mom or dad thought it’d be a good idea to get some good

[00:11:26] moral education my kid is really messed up i i really

[00:11:32] need him to go to a bible or it could be a guilt thing yeah i’m gonna take my kids to church so here’s a

[00:11:37] chance they can go to church during the school day yeah kind of a constant and maybe like i don’t have to take them now because they’re they’re going during the

[00:11:43] school day you know yeah you know it could be that too but whatever the case right uh paul said

[00:11:48] uh you know i am all things to all people so that i might win some so uh that’s really great um so

[00:11:55] you know along those same lines um i had somebody say hey you know if a school if

[00:12:00] a public school is going to allow uh and the kids do get credit for this they actually get credits is that

[00:12:06] correct and at the high school level they do at the middle school level it’s a non-credit elective right at the high

[00:12:12] school level they do get credit okay and then um you know somebody said if you’re going

[00:12:18] to make a class like this available that is a bible literally a bible class it’s it’s not just like a critical analysis

[00:12:24] of christianity or looking at the bible as literature it’s actually

[00:12:30] in a lot of ways like attending a uh bible study

[00:12:36] and they said hey well if you’re going to offer this to christian kid you know to kids from a christian perspective you have to offer it for example from

[00:12:43] an islam class or a class on islam or um you know a class on buddhism is this

[00:12:48] true that that the schools must provide the opportunity for them to learn from other religions as well

[00:12:54] yeah i’m sure if any other religion wanted to start a similar program

[00:13:00] you know teaching their religion i’m sure that would be allowed but unfortunately you don’t see that the only thing i’ve seen

[00:13:07] nationwide are people who are devoted to following christ trying to teach others how to be

[00:13:12] devoted followers of christ and uh so i i don’t know if anything else out there any other reason

[00:13:18] that’s never been an issue where uh an administrator has said look you’ve got to find somebody to teach

[00:13:24] buddhism too or something like that and no and they’re getting that like sixth grade of world history they’re

[00:13:29] covering all the world religions during that time and so they’re covering those there and so that may be especially the

[00:13:34] middle school level that may be why that’s not as seen as much of an issue maybe i don’t know

[00:13:41] huh okay yeah well that’s great and that’s good to know that legally that’s not the case um now um tell us a little bit about um

[00:13:49] well i wanted to give i wanted to give your website too pcreleasetime.com is brock’s website if

[00:13:56] you want to go there um like he was saying um they’re a non-profit and so he’s he’s supported like a missionary

[00:14:02] and um they rely on um you know uh people to contribute and to

[00:14:07] support them in order for him to be able to do this um and and brock is this a full-time job or is this uh something

[00:14:14] that you do part-time or how does that work yeah i mean it’s a full-time job with part-time benefits how about that

[00:14:22] and i mean i teach uh five or six classes a day i teach i teach as many if not more classes than the average

[00:14:27] teacher does at every school like if you’re teaching english at my middle school generally they’re teaching four

[00:14:33] classes a day and last year i taught five classes a day i’ve taught six in the past and uh so it does i usually

[00:14:39] have a higher teaching load than the english math science so studies teachers have and so from that standpoint yes

[00:14:46] it’s a full-time job and uh you know we’re there every day every school day we’re there teaching and

[00:14:51] it’s a one semester course so i get a i get a new group of kids in january so we

[00:14:56] we start up actually our first day of class is august the second so here just two weeks away and uh so we’ll start

[00:15:01] with a new group of kids and then we’ll end up in december before christmas break because they don’t call christmas break in public school but i still call

[00:15:07] it christmas break yeah but and then in january i get a whole new group of kids and so i can usually

[00:15:12] teach 10 to 14 students per class i have a a bus and i guess i’ll give you that

[00:15:17] background so when the kids show up at school they have they signed up for this class

[00:15:23] and so i have to take them off campus so i can teach them so i have a 14 passenger bus and that’s part of the of

[00:15:28] the the giving to the ministry to help us buy buses help us maintain the business i got to put tires we got to

[00:15:34] change the oil in them you know all this kind of things and you know insurance and so i can take the 14 students every

[00:15:39] class uh to a local church and that church is about a five-minute drive away and so we drive up there we go into the

[00:15:46] church into a classroom in the church teach them i usually get about 35 to 40 minutes of classroom instruction every

[00:15:52] day and then by the time you come to transition time it’s about an hour class by the time you kept the drive and then

[00:15:57] you know kids go to the bathroom in between you know all that kind of all the transitions and i get about a 40-minute uh break or so in there and

[00:16:04] then and then we bring them back and i do that right now i’ll do that five times a day and uh for that so uh so

[00:16:10] yeah it’s it’s a big i mean it’s a full-time commitment no doubt about that i mean i get my summers through other things but it is a full-time commitment

[00:16:17] yeah um so from um if somebody’s thinking up to themselves wow this is really neat i’ve

[00:16:22] never heard of this before this sounds like something i want to pray about and i want to maybe see if my local school

[00:16:28] would be willing to do um is does the does the off uh campus

[00:16:33] location obviously has to be pretty close in order for you to be able to take them there and then bring them back in a timely fashion

[00:16:40] yes and the good news about being in south carolina there’s a church on every corner and so that does even in the

[00:16:46] country you know there’s churches in every corner so yeah in other locations you know if you’re in the in the new england states it could be more of a

[00:16:53] challenge uh finding a location but it might be a church you know it could be a community center that allows you to come

[00:16:58] and it could be a a covered picnic pavilion i mean it could be you could anywhere off campus it could be someone

[00:17:04] who owns property and has a facility maybe i have a storage a huge storage building that you can sip a

[00:17:09] classroom menu it could be anything like that if you go off campus too the main requirement is that you have to go off campus to receive the instruction gotcha

[00:17:16] and then um could it be something like um what if somebody had like a really large uh like rv

[00:17:21] uh could they actually conduct like a class in an rv or something and i don’t i don’t see why not and uh yeah smalls

[00:17:27] to donate one we’ll try it out

[00:17:35] anything like that just fine yeah and of course we’re going to look for you know a safe environment we’ll look at what’s best for the students uh overall

[00:17:41] well-being too and so going to local church you know i can lock the doors i can make sure everybody’s safe and that

[00:17:46] kind of stuff as well and you you know we treat it just like the school environment and when i come in this in the church building i unlock

[00:17:53] the door when i come in all the students go in i walk it back behind me you know it’s the same type of environment the school which we’re keeping the kids safe

[00:18:00] the entire time gotcha and then um so

[00:18:05] uh are you is this a ministry that is looking to expand as far as

[00:18:11] do you look for additional people that are interested in getting involved with what you’re doing and try to you know

[00:18:16] get into other schools or how does that work we are locally so so the pickens county

[00:18:23] christian learning centers is focused on all the schools in pickens county so right now we’re in all five

[00:18:29] middle schools but there’s also four high schools and we would love to be in all four high schools one day uh we’re

[00:18:35] working towards that we have been in a high school before one of the four high schools a couple years we were there and

[00:18:40] there’s been different challenges at the high school level uh kids uh get really released so they can leave school early

[00:18:46] they don’t take as many classes necessarily um yeah there’s been uh just different challenges and of course covet

[00:18:52] always you know has messed everybody up and uh yeah but uh you know we have some we have some down some downtime both of

[00:18:58] giving and and with attendance during the cover time period you know the school was greatly restricted our class size numbers uh at one point during the

[00:19:05] covid i was teaching just three classes a day and only five students per class because they had to spread out like six

[00:19:11] feet apart in the class and they only do five students at a time and and that kind of stuff so you know so you know we’re starting to build back up and i

[00:19:17] wouldn’t share that our giving i know it says kind off topic but our giving is down about fifty percent right now since

[00:19:23] code hit and so uh you know we’re at the point no we’re definitely looking for more partners who can help us uh reach

[00:19:28] more students with the gospel message on a daily basis yeah absolutely so if you’re listening

[00:19:33] to this and and this is something that uh maybe uh the holy spirit is touching your heart and you’d like to get

[00:19:39] involved there’s multiple ways obviously you can get involved just by supporting uh brock and his team

[00:19:44] pc releasetime.com you can check it out for more information there and then of course if it’s something that um maybe

[00:19:51] you’re interested in doing um brock is a great resource also

[00:19:56] to get you more information um so that you don’t have to reinvent the wheel and you can brainstorm with him about um how

[00:20:03] to get this done and um so another question along those lines brock so how important it is is it to have buy-in

[00:20:10] from the school administration the public school administration is there do you ever have a situation where they’re

[00:20:15] like no we just don’t want to do this uh what are your thoughts there yeah and it really starts top down going

[00:20:21] to the superintendent going to the local school board and once they give you approval it’s really not

[00:20:27] the individual principles i guess um decision at that point but we do

[00:20:32] everything we can to be helpful uh some of our teachers help out with lunchroom duty you know i try to help out as much

[00:20:38] as i can if i see an issue i do everything i can to be helpful around the school uh you know if a kid spills a drink i’ll go to help mop it up you know

[00:20:44] things like that you know just trying to yeah show that we we are appreciative of being there we want to uh let the

[00:20:50] administration know that we’re here to provide support for you guys we’re not here to be a burden we’re here to actually be a benefit uh

[00:20:58] for to the school and for the school that’s fantastic and and then as far as um curriculum

[00:21:03] goes let’s say there’s somebody who’s like wow this is interesting to me but man i wouldn’t even know where to start i’ve never been a teacher in a school i

[00:21:09] don’t have a teaching credential um what’s the situation there and uh yes and it’s gonna be different

[00:21:15] um probably every local school district at the middle school level here’s how it

[00:21:21] currently is you do not need a teaching certificate it is not a four credit class so anyone

[00:21:28] who has a heart for teaching and wants and has a desire to teach the bible accurately could teach at the middle

[00:21:33] school level if that’s where god’s calling them but the high school level is for credit you know it’s a credit course uh so you have to have a teaching

[00:21:39] certificate and so with my teaching background i’m hopeful that we can be in positions where i can teach at the local

[00:21:45] high school hopefully within the next couple of years i can move up to the high school and we’ll bring someone else in to teach the middle school because i

[00:21:50] have a teaching certificate and so i could teach at the high school level so so god’s placed us in this position just

[00:21:55] like this is pretty cool seeing that that for growth within the ministry i’m already here and just where god wants it

[00:22:00] to go i could easily move up to the high school level if god opens his doors uh for that to happen there’s also um

[00:22:07] there’s tons of curriculums out there uh we use a curriculum from new tribe ministries i’ll give you the exact name

[00:22:13] so i don’t get it mixed up but it’s called firm foundations creation to christ that’s the curriculum that we use

[00:22:19] and it’s 48 lessons it starts off with who god is it goes into the angels next and it goes chronologically

[00:22:25] through genesis and all the way through the bible into the life and teaching of jesus we hit all the major players uh in

[00:22:31] the bible we spend a ton of time on genesis 1 through 11 giving that foundation of who god is and then we hit

[00:22:38] the major players throughout the old testament we can’t cover everything but the major players in the old testament and then we touch on uh as much as we

[00:22:45] can a pretty full spectrum of the life of jesus in the new testament we don’t get any of the epistles we don’t get any

[00:22:50] into revelation you know we have time for all that and uh but it’s 48 lessons uh that we have in numerous uh days for

[00:22:57] each of those lessons usually some lessons we get done on one day but other lessons take two three days sometimes to cover so it’s a full semester by the

[00:23:03] time we uh we teach it from one end to the other yeah absolutely and then um do

[00:23:08] they actually get grades uh for the class or you said it’s not not not for credit so not not for the

[00:23:15] school to to record but but there are grades um every teacher does it differently so

[00:23:21] there might be some sort of uh incentive program that’s put into place some teachers will give an incentive for

[00:23:28] uh different things maybe memorizing a bible verse uh uh maybe uh you know just different things like that uh i

[00:23:33] generally i just want to keep it simple other teachers get more complex with their i guess reward system with that uh

[00:23:40] we do we do a weekly uh bible memory and so one verse a week and the students who

[00:23:46] actually memorize the verse i get them pick out the candy bags so they get you know get a chance to get a little piece of candy that kind of thing yeah yeah

[00:23:51] nothing but nothing as far as a weather grade a b c d um we do occasionally give

[00:23:57] them some quizzes and stuff but that’s just for their knowledge to let them see what they’re learning what they’re what they’ve retained or they haven’t

[00:24:02] retained that’s not for a grade to send home uh-huh and how um you said i think you said you

[00:24:08] the max you could teach is 14 kids per class is that what you said that is because that’s how big my bus is

[00:24:15] okay let’s have a 14 passenger bus one of our schools has a 30 passenger bus and so it’s a little bit bigger school

[00:24:20] and so it could hold up to 30 students at a time and uh and so like last year let me find it real quickly um

[00:24:27] figure out where i had it written down at even one second i can give you this uh stat we had i think it was 500

[00:24:35] my computer’s been a little laggy so i apologize but uh that’s right we had i think we had around 500

[00:24:40] students yeah 517 students were a part of release time in all five

[00:24:46] middle schools last school year and uh that’s incredible yeah so so you know average 100 just say 100 students

[00:24:52] per middle school we had at my middle school uh rc evers middle school we had 119

[00:24:59] students uh last school year is what we had so um so roughly you know roughly 60

[00:25:04] students per semester is what it kind of boils down to that is fantastic um now

[00:25:10] what if uh do you ever have a situation where you have more kids that want to be in the class than you actually have room

[00:25:15] for is that ever a situation it is actually and uh and it’s been that way the last um this past year uh and going

[00:25:22] into this coming year the administration told me you you could teach a lot more classes we’ve got way more kids that

[00:25:28] want to do this than we already put them in there so yeah that’s great yeah so every school

[00:25:33] yeah go ahead go ahead i’ll say every school is different some schools we we struggle to fill the classes in some

[00:25:38] schools it’s just it fills right up and and part of that too is culture even within the same county the culture at

[00:25:45] every school is different and so we’ve got to find ways to uh to get kids there in some schools it’s not necessarily the

[00:25:51] culture it’s the way things are set up there’s so many opportunities that kids can take that release time that they

[00:25:57] want to take it but there’s always other cool options they can take as electives and so we’re competing against those

[00:26:02] cool electives as well and so that that makes it a challenge at times too gotcha so so what do you think is the

[00:26:08] draw for the kids that do want to come to the class that they um what what’s going on in you know what is

[00:26:14] the sense you get from them as as they’re sitting in the class um are they interested in learning about

[00:26:20] the lord are they uh you know just trying to get out of school what do they what’s their what’s their thought process or is it just different from kid

[00:26:27] to kid and it is but i would say this is how i always address the class um on day one say this is the only class

[00:26:33] you can take a field trip every single day and uh so sign up we get going field trips every day so every day we go off

[00:26:39] campus in the bus but uh but no most kids who signed for the class uh have heard from a sibling an older sibling

[00:26:46] i’ve heard from a classmate uh about it and and they want to be in there i’ve had very few students um in my four

[00:26:53] years of teaching and i know this may sound bad but my four years of teaching so far student who we’ve had to remove from the

[00:26:59] class for being a disruption just we couldn’t get that student to to stop being a disruption from other

[00:27:05] students learning from middle school i think that’s a pretty good oh yeah for the elective volunteer elective

[00:27:12] class i think that’s a pretty good number yeah oh that’s that’s fantastic so i i know i was a vice principal for

[00:27:18] the past two years and uh and middle school kids i had more trouble with middle school kids than i had with

[00:27:24] high school kids which is hilarious but well i i’ve got i’ve got a pretty good dry sense of humor and so i use that a

[00:27:29] lot and i joke with the kids and i have them call me coach brock by my first name i make it more like a youth pastor

[00:27:36] relationship versus a teacher relationship and i think that helps out a lot and i just try to get to know the kids as i’m driving the bus up the road

[00:27:42] i’m hearing their conversations and so i’ll make i’ll make note of what i heard sometimes for good they’ll be like oh

[00:27:48] you heard that you know that kind of thing and uh because you know they talk candidly on the bus and i’ll address those things yeah i think that part as

[00:27:55] we the camaraderies build up as we go through that during these non-instruction times i think helps draw

[00:28:00] those kids back as well and they see they see us as the race time teachers as a safe environment they can come to to

[00:28:08] help them with anything they’re going through that’s wonderful that’s wonderful yeah the relational aspect there i mean

[00:28:13] the bible is a book of relationships right it’s it’s a book about our relationship with the lord and our relationship one with another so uh

[00:28:20] that’s so wonderful um and then um i had another question for you

[00:28:26] uh so you were saying that um you know sometimes

[00:28:32] there’s there’s more kids that want to take the classes then you actually have room available how do you determine like

[00:28:38] you know who gets to take it and who doesn’t is there something you just you fill up a quota and you’re like i’m

[00:28:44] sorry guys it’s it’s full or how does that work yeah and every school is probably a little different here but at

[00:28:49] a school i teach that the administration takes care of that i just they just gave me a roster and they said here’s here’s

[00:28:55] your class list and uh and then i battled sometimes but hey can we get another kid in here

[00:29:00] especially sometimes they’ll max it out below the bus limit they might say they might max out at 12. and not necessarily

[00:29:07] because the cove would change a lot of stuff so you know yeah that’s that’s not you but hopefully going forward we’ll get back into the 14 number on a lot

[00:29:12] more regular basis i’ll be like i got one more kid can we get 13 in here you know i’ll go to that for another kid and yeah

[00:29:19] but but yeah for the most part that’s outside of my uh my room and what we’re currently doing at the middle school i’m

[00:29:24] at we’re offering one sixth grade class to seventh grade and to eighth grade

[00:29:29] because most sixth graders don’t know about the course so uh by time they become seventh

[00:29:34] graders their classmates have taken it and they’re kind of we need to take that class that’s a good class to go take and so yeah

[00:29:40] the word of mouth is spread about the opportunity and so seven eighth grade we have no trouble but one of the assistant

[00:29:46] principals last year said that your classes are full you don’t have any issue i mean they’re all full this coming year

[00:29:51] that’s great so that was another question i was going to ask is um you’ve been doing this for for four

[00:29:56] years now and you’re going into your fifth year so you’ve had a chance to to have feedback and you know um

[00:30:03] administrators here you know they hear kids talking they hear parents talking um so what kind of feedback are you

[00:30:09] getting as far as um you know the kids go go through the class are you seeing um you don’t always

[00:30:15] see fruit immediately but are you getting a sense that that um you know this is impacting these kids and that

[00:30:21] the parents are are grateful for it and that the administration is feeling uh you know positive towards it

[00:30:28] what’s the kind of uh fruit you’re seeing from this well i can say that the administration

[00:30:33] has told me numerous times i’m very thankful for this opportunity that that we do that is a benefit to the school

[00:30:39] that uh that uh that they they i guess they understand what we’re doing and they

[00:30:44] understand uh how it’s a just like a kid willing to take strings or a kid might want to take art where it came out to

[00:30:50] take uh you know band you know those are all benefits to the school as well in different ways yeah so and so they if

[00:30:56] what they’ve explained to me is that they’ve seen this being a benefit to the school and not they haven’t always told me like specific tangible ways

[00:31:03] but uh but they have numerous times said of that that this has been a huge benefit to the school and so i probably

[00:31:09] need to clarify that more in the future to give hey can you explain that some more but a lot of times

[00:31:14] i’m so busy teaching the whole day it’s a quick passing you know yeah two second moment to say something to the

[00:31:19] administrator and so if you don’t have a lot of time for long conversations either but yeah all the feedback i’ve gotten has been uh for the most part

[00:31:26] positive feedback and what about parents and students at the end of the year how do you feel

[00:31:31] yeah that’s positive almost yeah i mean i’ve got tons of testimonials i’ve got a whole i won’t

[00:31:36] read them to you but i’ve got it i see if i can i got whole there’s all the student testimonies that they’ve written down uh just how the classes impacted

[00:31:44] them how they shared uh um you know how the classes helped them i’ve got a lot of eighth graders who are now gonna be

[00:31:49] night figures they’re like can you offer this at the high school level and i’ll tell them we’re working on it or what so they’ve got to take it at the high

[00:31:54] school and so they’re we’re trying to get there you know it’s going to take some time now i told you we might the

[00:31:59] ones who just went up to ninth grade this coming school year but you know we you know we’re working we might could have it by the time you’re 10th graders

[00:32:06] so not this coming school year but the next school year it’s a possibility we could be up there by the end i mean we got a lot of work to do to get there you

[00:32:12] know with funding and getting you know all the teaching stuff in it lined up but but it’s definitely a direction

[00:32:17] we’re trying to get into and uh like here’s uh i’ll just read a couple of testimonies if you want me to is that yeah that’d be

[00:32:23] wonderful yeah i’d love it this was eighth grade girl she says that this class gives me a good way to learn

[00:32:28] more when my parents don’t believe so here’s a student whose parents are not believers letting her take this class

[00:32:35] and she says i’ve grown as a person throughout this class already and i can’t wait to learn even more through the year so that was a note that she

[00:32:41] wrote at one point during the year here’s a seventh grade boy he and he wrote this he was in the class

[00:32:47] the previous year as well he says last year during release time i got saved i love release time that’s the seventh

[00:32:53] grade boy this is an athlete too this is like a hardcore athlete writing uh i love release time i mean that breaks my

[00:32:59] heart that’s awesome one other one here is another athlete

[00:33:05] she writes this 8th grade girl this class has impacted my life because i play three sports and when i miss church

[00:33:11] on sunday i feel bad and like i’m drifting away from him so this class really helps me understand god’s word

[00:33:17] and it makes me feel like i can be connected to him all the time even when i miss on sundays

[00:33:22] and she goes on to say this i used to just go to church just to say i went but after this class and really hearing

[00:33:29] understanding his word has turned a new page for me and i really enjoy reading about god’s word now

[00:33:34] and she gonna say thank you to all who support it wow that’s a tearjerker man

[00:33:40] praise god and i’ve got like i said i’ve got a whole you know i’ve got another i don’t know how many 60 of those right

[00:33:45] there in front of me yeah yeah we’ll read them all but uh but yeah just this great testimony is how god is working

[00:33:51] these students lives and drawing them close to them because mostly students when they come in they have very minimal biblical

[00:33:57] knowledge most of these students haven’t gone to sunday school mostly students haven’t gone to children’s church most

[00:34:03] of these students have a minimal background of the bible if anything yeah

[00:34:08] if you know when i was growing up i grew up as a pk so i was in church all the time as a pk a pastor’s kid and uh but

[00:34:14] uh you know i would i would at least know bible facts but i could talk like jonah i get blank stares yeah like

[00:34:22] okay who’s john what i know i know same with me same with i

[00:34:28] you know i teach bible too that’s my that’s my career and uh it’s astonishing to me um definitely

[00:34:36] that i can throw throw a very famous stories out and uh whether it’s about david and goliath even

[00:34:42] and kids are like i don’t know about that and uh it’s it’s stunning but uh there’s a lot to be done so

[00:34:50] my guest today if you guys haven’t heard if you’re just tuning in is brock bailey he’s a release time bible teacher at

[00:34:58] the middle schools in south carolina pcreleasetime.com is his website

[00:35:04] pcreleasetime.com if you would like to learn more about him um and what he’s doing and also

[00:35:10] about um just release time in general maybe you you want to be involved in supporting what he’s doing or you want

[00:35:15] to be involved in maybe seeing what you can do to get something started in your local neighborhood in

[00:35:21] your local middle school um all kinds of resources there to be able to to get help with that and

[00:35:28] to move that along and obviously these are these are tangible results you know sometimes when you work in ministry

[00:35:34] you don’t get to see the immediate results but i mean here you have these testimonials where it’s clear that uh

[00:35:39] this is having an immediate impact on these young kids hearts and really for a lot of them setting up a foundation

[00:35:45] that’s going to carry them out throughout the rest of their life it’s going to change their life forever um through christ so uh that is absolutely

[00:35:52] uh incredible um you know what if there is somebody who’s who’s thinking um

[00:35:58] locally in their school they’re thinking boy that i don’t i don’t know if my school would be friendly towards this um

[00:36:05] you know what what is the process of you know praying of how do they overcome maybe some of the

[00:36:11] obstacles that are there in getting a program like this started brock yeah definitely well there’s a there’s a

[00:36:17] parent organization called schoolministries.org that will walk you through how to start

[00:36:22] a release time program in your community and so that would be the resource schoolministries.org

[00:36:28] okay uh yes ministries.org and it walks you through it’s basically

[00:36:34] the even though we’re all funded locally this is kind of the infrastructure

[00:36:40] kind of side of the ministry and they help you get it started they help you with how to start from a to z how to get

[00:36:46] the program off the ground and uh there’s all kinds of checklists and resources there yes sir

[00:36:51] okay that’s excellent that’s excellent and um and you know what would you say to

[00:36:56] somebody who says you know i live in a maybe a very uh antagonistic um community it’s not

[00:37:04] you know i when i think of south carolina i think that like you said there’s a church on every corner not every every place is like that i live in

[00:37:12] southern california and lots of california is not real friendly towards you know christianity um what

[00:37:18] would you say to somebody who maybe lives in an area that’s not as friendly towards that do you think um

[00:37:24] it’s worth trying to make that happen or do you think there are other areas that would be better to focus on if you’re in a

[00:37:30] really antagonistic area yeah i guess there’s two ways to look at it uh definitely worth it i mean we’re trying

[00:37:36] to you know reach these students for christ and so so every part of it’s worth it uh yeah

[00:37:42] that should try to do everything we can uh but then there’s other part to say you know what are the ministries are there are there other ministries that

[00:37:48] you can partner with that can do something similar you know find a ministry that’s thriving and and join

[00:37:54] them and maybe it would grow into something like this maybe there’s a local a larger church maybe that has a good

[00:38:00] vibrant youth group going on and maybe that could then grow from there into

[00:38:05] a school ministry and maybe it’s an after-school program to begin with and then maybe it grows into a school day

[00:38:10] program down the road and uh but the biggest thing i would say is it’s the first thing we should always do is pray

[00:38:16] just pray and seek god’s wisdom seek god’s guidance ask god to open up the doors you know god if this is this what

[00:38:22] you want me to do give me peace about it give me assurance and then and if he does then then press on and it’s not

[00:38:27] going to be easy if you’re in especially in an environment that is not traditionally uh known for being

[00:38:33] friendly towards uh church-going people i use that terminology and yeah but uh

[00:38:38] but you also have legal rights you have um you know in the school ministries uh group will help you with that as well

[00:38:44] and help you understand and part of that too is just getting to know the local school board getting the know the superintendent and

[00:38:51] and showing how much of a benefit this program and here’s another cool thing about the program we offer

[00:38:58] the opportunity to reduce classroom size free of charge because when the students in my class that’s the less students in

[00:39:03] the pe class that’s why students in our class that’s what students in other classes yeah so that’s a

[00:39:08] tangible benefit right there we’re taking a teaching load off of your paid staff and we’re done for free we’re not

[00:39:14] charging the thing to do it and so that’s there’s one benefit point about the of the program

[00:39:20] um so another question in that in that regard you know um a lot of the public schools are going in a direction that

[00:39:27] you know uh church-going people aren’t really excited about yes oh you know they’re they’re making a

[00:39:33] lot of decisions and and uh that you’re just kind of like whoa whoa this is completely contradictory to

[00:39:38] everything we believe um do is this ever an issue in your um

[00:39:44] local area as far as like are they concerned about what you’re teaching regarding the bible and the issues that

[00:39:50] have popped up now with gender and and uh you know uh self identifying your gender and these

[00:39:56] sorts of things are these issues for you it hasn’t been a whole lot uh for us and

[00:40:02] and i think part of that we’re we’re in the bible belt so it does make it even though it’s still not when you think of

[00:40:08] the bible it’s not what it used to be either and uh you know those people go to church on sundays as way diminished way especially with koba

[00:40:14] too it really dropped the numbers down yeah and people just haven’t come back and so it’s not the

[00:40:20] land of plenty that you might think of as far as everybody hey we’re all going to church that kind of stuff so there’s still antagonists out there there’s

[00:40:26] teachers who are atheist and agnostic and have other world views that teach in the public schools that i’m in and uh

[00:40:32] and so i just has another ministry and as long as we’re doing it in a way that um that we’re showing christ’s love

[00:40:39] uh with others i think that’s that’s the mindset we have to have is that we want to um just try try to show his love and

[00:40:46] and be there to be helpful within the school district so those who maybe wouldn’t really agree with what we

[00:40:52] do throughout well that person is a help that person’s going above and beyond what like it that one school uh one of

[00:40:58] the middle schools uh the teachers as i mentioned help out with lunchroom duty well even if you don’t like what we’re

[00:41:04] teaching who can discount the fact that you’re getting volunteer help with lunchroom duty the lunchroom’s crazy in middle

[00:41:10] school so yeah you know so things like that are a huge plus that’s great yeah i mean we we uh we

[00:41:17] just want to love people like you said because um i always tell people well if you don’t have an answer

[00:41:23] you know to somebody’s question or maybe you’re struggling with something just love them because uh that’s what god

[00:41:28] wants us to do is to love people so um so you know you did mention though you

[00:41:34] said something about we have legal rights um it’s not like a legal requirement that

[00:41:39] that a school administration or a school board allow this to be the case though right it’s really at their discretion is

[00:41:45] that the case or what’s this yeah and but at the same time since the supreme court has ruled um

[00:41:52] that in favor of it you can’t force a school district to to offer it

[00:41:57] but since the legal precedent is there i think most school districts would at

[00:42:03] least look very intently at that to make their decision and uh you know i don’t i don’t

[00:42:09] think we’re talking lawsuits or anything which i mean that may come one it may come that someday but i don’t think we’re

[00:42:14] talking that but it’s just you know uh as i mentioned already we’re going to try to show the benefit of

[00:42:20] offering this program and how we’re helping the school district and and with it being a volunteer

[00:42:26] class anyways in the elective class students have parent permission to actually do the class i think that takes a lot of

[00:42:33] the preconceived notion of what’s my kid being told you know that kind of thing you’re not getting that because hello

[00:42:38] you let your kid in there you signed up you’re an electric kid yeah and you knew as a bible class so yeah i think uh

[00:42:45] from that um antagonist view i guess from that standpoint sure sure that makes a lot of sense

[00:42:51] well brock we’re just about out of time here and uh i just want to

[00:42:56] repeat your website here pc releasetime.com for those of you listening um

[00:43:01] you can help support what they’re doing like he said you know this is a full-time job he’s teaching anywhere

[00:43:07] from four to six classes per day um five days a week and obviously the ministry is effective it’s so exciting to see the

[00:43:15] gospel being shared with public school students many of these kids um have don’t go to church they come from

[00:43:20] families that are on church and uh this is a really powerful ministry so pcreleasetime.com and then

[00:43:28] if you you want to get help with that you can always um you know pick his brain but also brock mentioned

[00:43:33] schoolministries.org for help if you are interested in trying to set something up like this in your local

[00:43:40] school district and um uh brock again thank you so much for being

[00:43:45] with us really appreciate your time yeah thank you kevin i appreciate it and uh looking forward to uh seeing how the

[00:43:52] square unfolds and just you know those are listening uh start praying for us and we’ve got students coming in two weeks that will have a chance to impact

[00:43:58] so pray that parents will agree let them in the classes and pray the students will have an open heart and open mind to

[00:44:04] learn more about god’s word amen amen wow i’m so excited you fired me up man um my name is kevin conover my

[00:44:11] website’s educate4life.org you can listen to a recording of this broadcast on social media it’ll be all

[00:44:17] over youtube and everywhere if you want to forward it to somebody who you think might be interested please do so and

[00:44:22] then um obviously also on my website you have my apologetics curriculum bible apologetics curriculum if you need that

[00:44:28] as a resource it’s available to you um for 40 classes covering all the different questions that kids have about

[00:44:34] god in the bible and um uh just very grateful for you being being here today and uh please continue to pray for brock

[00:44:41] and his family uh his wife and his and you have two kids right brock yes sir okay so uh we’ll keep them in our

[00:44:47] prayers too so thanks again and uh hopefully i’ll see you next year in south carolina at the uh convention yes

[00:44:53] hope so yes in tennessee yes sir oh tennessee sorry okay man god bless you

[00:45:12] you