Teen Atheist Finds Faith with Mitchell Ellery

[00:00:01] K for Life Radio. We broadcast

[00:00:04] down on in Southern California

[00:00:05] on Cape Race. 12:10 AM and uh I

[00:00:07] thought I’d take uh a little

[00:00:09] detour. I have a student who

[00:00:11] this past year uh he was

[00:00:13] considering his worldview and

[00:00:16] deciding you know, whether he

[00:00:16] wanted wanted to be a Christian

[00:00:17] or not. He ended up deciding to

[00:00:18] become a Christian and I

[00:00:20] thought it would be really cool

[00:00:21] to you know, hear a little bit

[00:00:22] about his thought process about

[00:00:24] what he went through in order

[00:00:25] to get where he is today and to

[00:00:27] become a Christian and so um uh

[00:00:29] his name Mitchell El and uh

[00:00:32] good friend of his is here too.

[00:00:34] Uh Van Neff. So, um for those

[00:00:36] of you who know these guys are

[00:00:37] really cool guys. Guys, say hi.

[00:00:39] Hey, guys. How you doing? Yeah,

[00:00:40] what up? Here we are. We have

[00:00:41] to do a little bit of uh uh a

[00:00:43] rotation here and uh so uh

[00:00:46] these guys just graduated and

[00:00:48] uh Mitchell, you’re in and what

[00:00:50] are you doing right now? Uh I’m

[00:00:52] doing construction home

[00:00:53] construction in the vineyard.

[00:00:54] Uh I’m doing some electrician

[00:00:56] work. Yeah, yeah. So these guys

[00:00:57] just got off work. So, uh we’re

[00:00:58] over here doing but um so what

[00:01:02] I wanted to start off uh

[00:01:04] Mitchell, um you became a

[00:01:06] Christian in the past 2 years,

[00:01:07] is that right? Yes, sir. Yeah.

[00:01:08] Yeah. So, I guess what I kind

[00:01:10] of wanted to ask you was um I

[00:01:13] mean starting off, you know,

[00:01:15] kind of go backwards and talk

[00:01:17] about uh you know growing up.

[00:01:19] Um what did your family have

[00:01:20] any particular religious view?

[00:01:21] Um my both of my parents are

[00:01:24] Catholic growing up but they

[00:01:25] they’ve refused to force it on

[00:01:26] any of us. There’s four of us.

[00:01:28] Yeah so we didn’t I didn’t know

[00:01:30] much about it at all. Yeah I

[00:01:31] just knew that there was

[00:01:32] religion. Yeah. And um It

[00:01:36] wasn’t until it wasn’t until a

[00:01:37] Christian high school that I

[00:01:39] actually dove deep into like

[00:01:41] what Christianity is about and

[00:01:43] like what the other religions

[00:01:44] are about in general. So, what

[00:01:46] so, what year did you start at

[00:01:47] Christian? I started in eighth

[00:01:48] grade. Okay. And in eighth

[00:01:50] grade, I was completely against

[00:01:52] god II. Just there was no way,

[00:01:54] you know, when you catch me

[00:01:56] being a Christian, when I’m a

[00:01:57] great athletes in eighth grade,

[00:01:59] I was just not with it. you

[00:02:00] know, so that’s that’s

[00:02:01] interesting. So, what was it?

[00:02:03] what was going through your

[00:02:04] mind as a kid in eighth grade?

[00:02:05] you know and why are you so,

[00:02:07] you know, kind of passionately

[00:02:08] like rejected well for me is

[00:02:10] more like because I’ve been

[00:02:12] going to Publix my whole life

[00:02:13] and I’ve been taught, you know,

[00:02:15] in public school, you’re taught

[00:02:16] evolution. you’re taught

[00:02:17] everything’s back and I and in

[00:02:19] public school that I didn’t

[00:02:20] mention any religion ever.

[00:02:23] Interesting. Okay. And um at

[00:02:24] the time, that was my core

[00:02:26] beliefs was, you know,

[00:02:28] evolution is true. There’s no

[00:02:29] way god’s real and II basically

[00:02:31] got most of that from public

[00:02:32] school. Yeah. And was that from

[00:02:34] your friends at school or was

[00:02:35] that from the teachers or was

[00:02:36] that Well teachers? I mean

[00:02:38] again, they didn’t talk about

[00:02:39] religion at all and every time

[00:02:40] they they assign assignments in

[00:02:41] the book. Yeah it was always

[00:02:42] about like and you know, just

[00:02:46] Atheist views II. Guess. Yeah.

[00:02:49] You know, that’s really

[00:02:50] interesting that you bring that

[00:02:50] up because um I was actually

[00:02:52] talking to a student a while

[00:02:54] ago and I’m just sharing this

[00:02:55] with the people listening

[00:02:56] because what he’s saying is is

[00:02:58] completely true. What at least

[00:03:00] where we are at in uh Southern

[00:03:02] California, San Diego is that

[00:03:04] um I actually had a student

[00:03:05] tell me he wanted to write a

[00:03:06] paper on creations but he was

[00:03:08] told by his teacher there were

[00:03:09] only certain websites he could

[00:03:11] use and when we looked at the

[00:03:12] list of websites he could use

[00:03:14] that are scientific and had to

[00:03:15] do with creations literally

[00:03:17] weren’t any. So, he he

[00:03:18] literally told me I can’t even

[00:03:21] write a paper. supporting

[00:03:23] creation science because there

[00:03:25] are literally no websites I’m

[00:03:26] allowed to reference and I have

[00:03:28] to reference websites in order

[00:03:29] to write this paper. So, it’s

[00:03:30] almost like he was he was being

[00:03:33] forced into a box of That’s

[00:03:34] what he had. Yeah. That’s what

[00:03:35] basically happened to all of us

[00:03:36] in my middle school and

[00:03:38] elementary school. Yeah. And

[00:03:40] it’s because unless you’re

[00:03:41] taught from a young age like

[00:03:43] what religion is. Yeah. Like

[00:03:44] because I wasn’t um you really

[00:03:46] You don’t know anything else.

[00:03:47] You know, you just know that.

[00:03:48] Oh, evolution must be true and

[00:03:51] that’s what you’re basically

[00:03:52] taught. You’re entire childhood

[00:03:53] growing up and that’s what

[00:03:55] happened to me. Yeah. that’s

[00:03:56] okay. That’s that’s crazy, man.

[00:03:58] Now, what about you? How long

[00:03:59] have you known Mitchell? Uh how

[00:04:02] long have you been a sophomore

[00:04:03] sophomore year? Yeah, sophomore

[00:04:04] year? Yeah. Now, were you guys

[00:04:05] always friends? you hit it off

[00:04:06] right away or you? Yeah. yeah.

[00:04:08] we’re we’re pretty good friends

[00:04:08] immediately. Yeah, that’s cool.

[00:04:09] That’s cool. So, you’ve uh you

[00:04:12] know now you come from a

[00:04:13] Christian background, is that

[00:04:14] right? Yeah. Yeah. So your

[00:04:15] parents were uh brought you out

[00:04:17] Christian. Mm hmm. So, have you

[00:04:18] always believed or was there

[00:04:20] times where you didn’t or where

[00:04:21] were you at I’ve always just

[00:04:23] like thought of it as like, I

[00:04:26] don’t know like it was always

[00:04:28] in the back of my head but I

[00:04:29] didn’t really believe or

[00:04:30] disbelieve. It was just like a

[00:04:31] thing that was just because I

[00:04:32] I’ve literally went to church

[00:04:34] like my entire life. So, it’s

[00:04:35] just a part of your life. Yeah.

[00:04:36] Yeah. I’ve never really like

[00:04:38] like like even when I’ve

[00:04:40] learned about evolution in

[00:04:40] school, I wasn’t like, oh, that

[00:04:42] means the Bible is not true

[00:04:43] like because I just didn’t even

[00:04:44] think about it like that. Yeah.

[00:04:46] And until I went to Christian

[00:04:47] and then like II didn’t even

[00:04:49] know what Christians was. I

[00:04:51] thought like like I thought it

[00:04:52] would like I was like

[00:04:54] metaphorical type, You know,

[00:04:56] about like how the earth is

[00:04:58] actually made Sure. Sure. Like

[00:04:59] the Seven-day stuff and all

[00:05:01] that. So, when you and so when

[00:05:02] you and Mitchell became

[00:05:03] friends, did he, did you guys

[00:05:05] actually have these

[00:05:06] discussions? Did you talk about

[00:05:07] like I don’t really believe

[00:05:09] this. Yeah and he’s like, yeah,

[00:05:11] we actually, we’ve been over

[00:05:11] this a lot. You know, know,

[00:05:12] he’s he’s the one he’s one of

[00:05:14] the ones he’s like, he’s like,

[00:05:15] dude, honestly, like, if it’s

[00:05:17] not true, nothing happens to

[00:05:18] you and it’s just like, you

[00:05:20] should just look into it, you

[00:05:21] know? Yeah. Yeah. And when we

[00:05:23] first met, I was like, no, bro.

[00:05:25] sophomore year, I was still

[00:05:26] kind of like that. Yeah, I

[00:05:27] refused it. I was agnostic more

[00:05:29] towards sophomore and junior

[00:05:31] year. Yeah. But I was still

[00:05:32] like that. There’s no way. You

[00:05:33] know, I just, for me, it was it

[00:05:36] was like um it’s really hard

[00:05:37] for me to fathom. Yeah. The

[00:05:39] existence of god and as is for

[00:05:40] most people switching. Sure.

[00:05:42] And um so what what was it

[00:05:44] about it that was so hard for

[00:05:46] you to imagine of god? I

[00:05:47] couldn’t imagine that he was

[00:05:49] just there like he just was

[00:05:51] always there and he created

[00:05:52] everything and he created time

[00:05:54] or I don’t know if he did or

[00:05:55] not but um I just couldn’t

[00:05:56] imagine Some being was didn’t

[00:06:00] have a beginning, you know?

[00:06:01] Yeah. Because it was just

[00:06:02] there. Yeah. That’s hard to

[00:06:05] wrap your mind around, right?

[00:06:06] Yeah. So, so you’re kind of

[00:06:07] like, you’re the type of person

[00:06:08] that’s like, if I I can’t wrap

[00:06:09] my mind around it, then I’m

[00:06:11] going to have a really hard

[00:06:11] time with it. Right. And that’s

[00:06:13] exactly what um that’s why I

[00:06:14] was agnostic the time because I

[00:06:15] couldn’t wrap my head around

[00:06:16] with the big bang. That doesn’t

[00:06:17] make any sense. Yeah. as well.

[00:06:19] So I was I was pretty torn up

[00:06:21] and I was in the middle because

[00:06:22] I there’s no way I could

[00:06:23] believe in the Big Bang at the

[00:06:24] time. There’s no way I could be

[00:06:25] believing in god. Yeah. Okay.

[00:06:26] That makes a lot of sense. It’s

[00:06:28] interesting. Okay. So, um so

[00:06:32] what’s also interesting to me

[00:06:33] is you know, um my class of

[00:06:36] course is apologetics and if if

[00:06:38] anybody listening, if you’ve

[00:06:40] listened for any amount of

[00:06:40] time, you know that that’s what

[00:06:42] this whole radio show is about.

[00:06:44] That’s what the classes are

[00:06:45] about. That’s what everything’s

[00:06:46] about. It’s apologetics which

[00:06:48] is uh learning to to make the

[00:06:49] case that god is true and the

[00:06:52] Bible is true. Um so my

[00:06:53] question for you though is

[00:06:54] this, you know, you started in

[00:06:55] eighth grade at Christian yet.

[00:06:59] It wasn’t until about twelve

[00:07:00] grade and and what we are going

[00:07:02] through that your mind started

[00:07:03] to really really change. So,

[00:07:05] why is it Because you have a

[00:07:06] Bible class every year, right?

[00:07:08] So, why wasn’t why did those

[00:07:09] classes uh push you in that

[00:07:11] direction or did they or I

[00:07:13] would say for the most part, um

[00:07:15] eighth grade and freshman Bible

[00:07:18] didn’t do anything for me. It

[00:07:19] was for me it felt like busy

[00:07:21] work because it honestly kind

[00:07:22] of was it was just like forcing

[00:07:25] students to read the Bible and

[00:07:26] yeah, I’m nothing against that

[00:07:28] but I just I didn’t do it. I

[00:07:29] don’t know. I I didn’t I didn’t

[00:07:31] do any of work most times I

[00:07:32] didn’t want to at the time.

[00:07:32] Yeah. Well, also and and part

[00:07:35] of it is is that when you’re

[00:07:36] going through that, if you

[00:07:37] don’t believe it, then you’re

[00:07:40] kind of like, why am I spending

[00:07:41] my time learning about

[00:07:42] something that I don’t even

[00:07:42] think is true. Right. Right.

[00:07:44] Yeah. Which I think I think

[00:07:44] your class should be a freshman

[00:07:46] class. Oh. Because. Okay, I

[00:07:49] gotta switch to teaching

[00:07:50] freshman class. Okay, I really,

[00:07:51] I really like teaching seniors

[00:07:53] so, I don’t know. I don’t know

[00:07:54] some of the some of the things

[00:07:55] in that class are like, it’s

[00:07:58] like not suitable for Fisher.

[00:08:00] That’s that’s true. Everything

[00:08:01] we teach in there is is is

[00:08:02] great. talking about more like

[00:08:05] we can’t wrap their mind

[00:08:06] around. Yeah. Well, they can’t.

[00:08:07] they can’t like like there’s

[00:08:09] real life issues. Oh yeah.

[00:08:11] Yeah. When we’re dealing with

[00:08:12] the the sexual identity issues

[00:08:15] and the reason why I say that

[00:08:17] is because your class really

[00:08:19] opens the eyes of the student

[00:08:21] and I know that from personal

[00:08:22] experience because you you go

[00:08:24] through every religion and you

[00:08:26] teach to the core of like what

[00:08:28] each religion is about. Yeah.

[00:08:29] And the way you teach it just

[00:08:31] it just makes sense. you know,

[00:08:33] and that’s what really got me

[00:08:35] going to like Christianity

[00:08:39] because you just, you refute

[00:08:41] everything perfectly and you

[00:08:42] just always have the answer.

[00:08:43] Usually, most definitely.

[00:08:45] Thanks, man. I’m paying him for

[00:08:48] the same time. So, so actually

[00:08:51] a Hulu, the same lines. That’s

[00:08:52] one of my questions I had on

[00:08:53] here for you is um at what

[00:08:56] point where you’re, you know,

[00:08:58] you’re sitting in class, you’re

[00:08:59] thinking about this stuff and

[00:09:00] by the way, these two guys um

[00:09:02] they’re both super sharp. Uh

[00:09:03] they’re probably both going to

[00:09:05] end up being very successful

[00:09:06] and very wealthy. Uh so, are

[00:09:08] you guys, are you guys uh do

[00:09:10] you have a girlfriend right

[00:09:10] now? Uh like kind of like oh

[00:09:14] that’s that’s new. It is new.

[00:09:15] Just got out of one. Oh, you

[00:09:17] just got out of. Okay. so so

[00:09:19] Mitchell’s on the market here.

[00:09:20] If there’s any if there’s any

[00:09:22] cute Christian girls out there

[00:09:23] who are who are looking for a

[00:09:24] good guy. Well, there you go.

[00:09:27] Thanks for the shout out

[00:09:29] apparently is is not on the

[00:09:30] market anymore. So I’m I know I

[00:09:33] know good guys are hard to come

[00:09:34] by so you know, I gotta do my

[00:09:36] part here. Um anyway, So,

[00:09:39] you’re listening in class and

[00:09:40] uh like I was saying, both of

[00:09:42] these guys ask lots of

[00:09:43] questions in class. They they

[00:09:45] are challenging. Uh you know,

[00:09:47] they’re they’re throwing stuff

[00:09:48] out. They’re going, wait, how

[00:09:49] do we know that’s true and

[00:09:50] that’s funny you say that I’m

[00:09:51] going to have to cut you off my

[00:09:54] goal from the beginning was to

[00:09:55] prove me wrong. I couldn’t do

[00:09:57] it. That’s why he told me. I

[00:09:59] was like, what did I just

[00:10:00] always try to like ask him

[00:10:02] questions and trip him up and I

[00:10:03] try to like prove it’s not real

[00:10:06] and he just always knows the

[00:10:07] answer like you know, it’s yeah

[00:10:09] because at the start, I

[00:10:10] realized what you’re teaching

[00:10:11] us, all these other religions

[00:10:12] and I was like, oh, I’m going

[00:10:13] to get him. I’m That was funny.

[00:10:16] I was ready to prove you wrong

[00:10:16] from the get go. Yeah, but I

[00:10:19] couldn’t. Now, you now you told

[00:10:21] me that there were some other

[00:10:22] guys too that were like um like

[00:10:25] before you took the class, they

[00:10:26] were saying Mitchell, wait till

[00:10:28] you get to the economist class.

[00:10:30] Yeah, I don’t know who are some

[00:10:31] of the guys that were like,

[00:10:32] we’re giving you a hard time.

[00:10:33] Uh Cody Boston, Nathan Lee, um

[00:10:36] Kyle Olson, Madame Duncan, all

[00:10:39] those guys, the whole the whole

[00:10:40] group of guys they’re all like

[00:10:41] because they would always

[00:10:42] whenever we’d hang out there, I

[00:10:43] was like, dude, just just do

[00:10:44] it. Just look into it and

[00:10:44] you’ll be surprised and I was

[00:10:46] like, what do you think I am? I

[00:10:48] think I’m going to look into

[00:10:48] that. Time for that. Yeah, I’m

[00:10:49] not going to waste my time but

[00:10:51] um yeah, I wish I would have

[00:10:53] sooner. Yeah. Because it gives

[00:10:55] a lot of clarity and I believe

[00:10:58] that’s II feel the same way.

[00:10:59] So, so along those same lines,

[00:11:01] you’re sitting in class, you’re

[00:11:02] listening as we’re going

[00:11:03] through the subjects. Was there

[00:11:04] a point where you started to

[00:11:05] go, oh no, maybe atheism isn’t

[00:11:09] true or maybe maybe this is

[00:11:12] real. Do you remember uh uh uh

[00:11:13] uh uh a defining point where

[00:11:15] you started to change your

[00:11:17] mind? I think the big thing for

[00:11:19] me that I started noticing was

[00:11:21] uh every other required some

[00:11:24] sort of not sacrifice but

[00:11:27] something to get to the next

[00:11:29] level ahead of something to get

[00:11:30] there and uh I know and you

[00:11:33] even brought this in multiple

[00:11:34] times. Christianity doesn’t

[00:11:35] other than obviously believing

[00:11:37] in god. Yeah. Yeah. Um so when

[00:11:38] you say get to another level,

[00:11:40] you mean like in Mormonism how

[00:11:42] there are different levels of

[00:11:43] heaven and you gotta do this,

[00:11:44] this and this is that what

[00:11:45] you’re talking about, right?

[00:11:46] And then like how in Islam you

[00:11:47] like isn’t there like different

[00:11:48] ways how you can get a better

[00:11:50] afterlife? Yeah, absolutely and

[00:11:52] you know if you if you do

[00:11:53] certain things and everything

[00:11:54] and uh it’s definitely works Um

[00:11:57] and then that’s very clear.

[00:11:58] also in um in Buddhism. um

[00:12:02] you’re you’re to you

[00:12:04] reincarnate into something

[00:12:05] better all the time, right? Um

[00:12:07] so, but but why that’s not

[00:12:08] something that’s like um why

[00:12:11] was that appealing to you? What

[00:12:12] what was it about that that

[00:12:14] caused you to go? huh, maybe I

[00:12:16] should consider Christianity

[00:12:17] well that just because it made

[00:12:19] Christianity an outlier and for

[00:12:21] and to me for it being as

[00:12:23] popular as it is and to be an

[00:12:24] outlier compared to all these

[00:12:26] other religions that just spoke

[00:12:28] to me as well as you know, a

[00:12:30] lot of the stuff you taught

[00:12:32] really like hit me in my core,

[00:12:34] I guess and um is there

[00:12:35] anything that you’re thinking

[00:12:36] of specifically that I’m trying

[00:12:38] to uh as at the moment That’s

[00:12:40] okay. That’s okay. I remember

[00:12:41] like one time um you’re you’re

[00:12:44] talking about uh like how every

[00:12:47] cause has to have an effect or

[00:12:48] every like effect has to have a

[00:12:50] cause or whatever. Yeah. And

[00:12:51] then like as you go back in

[00:12:53] time like like like if

[00:12:55] evolution happens then like

[00:12:57] something has to cause

[00:12:59] something to happen and then at

[00:13:00] the end, all the way back like

[00:13:01] there is nothing nothing could

[00:13:03] cause like that first like Big

[00:13:06] bang or something like that.

[00:13:07] So, I was just like, okay. So

[00:13:09] basically, the earth is

[00:13:10] scientifically like not

[00:13:11] possible based on like

[00:13:13] evolutionary class. Yeah. I was

[00:13:15] just like, that’s crazy like

[00:13:16] that. I like flip the switch

[00:13:18] kind of. That’s cool. Also, I

[00:13:20] think you uh that’s one of my

[00:13:22] favorite arguments right there.

[00:13:23] Is that the one you just like

[00:13:24] Pure Logic? Yeah, it’s pure

[00:13:26] Logic has to be something else

[00:13:27] if to make that first thing

[00:13:30] happen, you know? Yes. yes.

[00:13:32] Another thing that was you

[00:13:33] started denouncing Atheism and

[00:13:36] agnostics because I think that

[00:13:37] was a joint unit if I remember

[00:13:37] correctly. Mm hmm. uh

[00:13:39] relativism and so forth. Yeah.

[00:13:41] Oh, also, yeah, more more

[00:13:43] relativism hit me good because

[00:13:45] at the time I was sitting there

[00:13:47] and we were all wrong because

[00:13:49] morals do have a base. Yeah.

[00:13:50] Which is god. Yeah. Rather than

[00:13:53] uh the way we were talking

[00:13:54] about it. How is it wrong? You

[00:13:56] know, kill a baby or something.

[00:13:58] Yeah. And if your if your

[00:14:00] morals are wrong, if you’re an

[00:14:01] atheist, then no it’s not

[00:14:03] wrong. You know what I mean?

[00:14:04] Exactly. Yeah. When everyone

[00:14:06] knows when they’re born or when

[00:14:08] they’re growing up. Yeah. it’s

[00:14:09] wrong to kill a child. Yeah. a

[00:14:11] it’s intuitive that we know

[00:14:12] that. Yeah. Yeah. And you have

[00:14:14] to ask where did that come

[00:14:15] from? And if there’s no moral

[00:14:18] grounding in atheism even

[00:14:19] though and again II have to put

[00:14:22] this disclaimer because this

[00:14:23] happens so often but um it

[00:14:25] doesn’t mean that Atheist can’t

[00:14:26] be good people. It just means

[00:14:27] that there’s no moral grounding

[00:14:29] for the claim of what is good

[00:14:30] and what is what is bad. So, uh

[00:14:34] just to clarify it. So um uh so

[00:14:37] you you started these things

[00:14:38] started to hit you and you

[00:14:39] started to consider, okay um

[00:14:42] you know maybe atheism isn’t

[00:14:43] real. maybe god is real. Um So,

[00:14:47] was there something where you

[00:14:49] it kind of pushed you over the

[00:14:50] edge and you you you remember

[00:14:53] this is the moment I went from

[00:14:56] not believing or agnostics to

[00:14:58] actually, I would call myself.

[00:14:59] I am now a believer. Most

[00:15:01] definitely. I think I remember

[00:15:03] in probably about the middle of

[00:15:04] the year, I was like, you know,

[00:15:06] I’m going to try it. I’m I’m

[00:15:06] going to say the lord’s prayer

[00:15:08] and I’m going to try it and the

[00:15:10] next few months of my life, I

[00:15:12] remember just feeling just

[00:15:13] completely different. I felt

[00:15:15] uplifted Most of the time. I

[00:15:16] just felt good all the time.

[00:15:18] honestly and then that’s god

[00:15:21] right there. Not I mean, not

[00:15:22] really but or I guess. No,

[00:15:24] really it is and I just, I

[00:15:25] always felt good and I also

[00:15:26] started reading the Bible a

[00:15:28] little more. I would look at

[00:15:29] verses based on what happened

[00:15:30] throughout my day, you know.

[00:15:31] Yeah. And it um just clarity.

[00:15:34] Yeah. It like it clicks so it

[00:15:36] fits the puzzle pieces

[00:15:37] perfectly. It does. Yeah. You

[00:15:38] just feel like you and the

[00:15:39] Bible actually talks about

[00:15:40] that. It says those with unser

[00:15:42] eyes can’t see god but it says

[00:15:44] once god gives you that vision.

[00:15:46] Once you say god, I want you

[00:15:47] all of a sudden boom.

[00:15:49] Everything just opens up. Yeah.

[00:15:50] Right. And it gives so much

[00:15:51] clarity of things that and

[00:15:52] things aren’t as confusing

[00:15:54] anymore, right? Yeah. Yeah. And

[00:15:55] it was and it was the craziest

[00:15:56] thing ever and I was like, I

[00:15:57] was like, wow, it really opened

[00:15:59] my eyes. Yeah. And uh that’s

[00:16:00] when I was like, alright, I’m I

[00:16:01] believe and and what you said

[00:16:03] in in class at one time you

[00:16:05] said it’s not a matter about

[00:16:06] getting someone to like fully

[00:16:08] give up their life right away

[00:16:09] to god. It’s about pushing them

[00:16:11] over that 50% benchmark. Oh

[00:16:12] yeah, yeah. I remember that.

[00:16:13] And you got me over it. And

[00:16:15] then as you dive into it more,

[00:16:18] you slowly build up that

[00:16:19] percentage. Yeah, it’s true.

[00:16:20] Yeah. Your face starts to

[00:16:22] increase and you just, you just

[00:16:23] become more and more convinced.

[00:16:25] That’s really cool. Um so,

[00:16:28] looking back when you look back

[00:16:30] on, you know, what you your

[00:16:32] view before as an atheist or an

[00:16:34] agnostic Um do you think that

[00:16:37] it had solely to do with the

[00:16:38] facts? Was there an emotional

[00:16:39] component there Was it um what

[00:16:42] was driving your atheism at the

[00:16:43] time? Do you feel like there

[00:16:45] was issues you’re dealing with

[00:16:46] in your life or was it almost

[00:16:48] purely like a fact-based thing.

[00:16:50] I think it was more of a fact

[00:16:51] based thing. I don’t. Yeah.

[00:16:52] Nothing in my life ever

[00:16:54] happened to push me to atheism.

[00:16:56] Yeah. I never like got mad at

[00:16:58] god when I didn’t believe in

[00:17:00] god. You know, I never, I never

[00:17:00] had a reason to disbelieve him

[00:17:02] other than at the time, the

[00:17:03] facts didn’t line up to me.

[00:17:04] Yeah. But yeah, I think it’s

[00:17:07] most definitely a fact or in a

[00:17:09] disbelief. So, from that

[00:17:10] perspective and man, this this

[00:17:12] is a good question for you too.

[00:17:14] From that perspective, when you

[00:17:15] think about um you know, your

[00:17:17] and other people who maybe

[00:17:19] aren’t believers and they they

[00:17:22] are, you know, they have

[00:17:23] questions or they’re skeptics.

[00:17:24] they’re skeptical and all. do

[00:17:25] you think of a lot of them?

[00:17:27] It’s really just that they

[00:17:28] don’t know a lot of the facts.

[00:17:30] Yeah, I think so that they’re,

[00:17:31] I think if everyone took your

[00:17:32] class then they like the whole

[00:17:34] world would like to see That’s

[00:17:38] good. That’s too good of a No,

[00:17:39] like I’m serious like I don’t

[00:17:41] know because I tried to tell

[00:17:43] like my sister about something

[00:17:44] because she like like I don’t

[00:17:46] know. She kind of like it away

[00:17:48] because since we’re going to a

[00:17:49] church my whole life like she

[00:17:51] basically like they pushed her

[00:17:53] away from it basically. Um but

[00:17:55] yeah, I was trying to tell her

[00:17:56] like all this stuff about it

[00:17:57] but like the way I was

[00:17:59] explaining it like I was just

[00:18:00] stupid about it, you know, and

[00:18:01] I was like, alright, honestly,

[00:18:02] if you just took his class,

[00:18:04] you’d believe me too. I swear

[00:18:06] because he’s I know exactly

[00:18:07] what he’s talking about.

[00:18:08] Genius. I was telling him,

[00:18:09] what’s my siblings the same

[00:18:10] thing and I was like, because

[00:18:12] my brother’s going to have your

[00:18:13] class in 2 years. Yeah. I’m

[00:18:14] telling him. I’m like, just

[00:18:14] wait, dude. you’re you’re just

[00:18:16] like, and then same with one of

[00:18:18] my other siblings. I was

[00:18:19] telling him and he goes and

[00:18:21] some of the stuff I was saying,

[00:18:22] he didn’t realize they were

[00:18:23] Christian viewpoints. Yeah. He

[00:18:25] didn’t realize what Christian

[00:18:26] viewpoints at the time. Mm hmm.

[00:18:28] But he was agreeing and he

[00:18:29] didn’t realize. I was like, oh,

[00:18:31] okay. You don’t even know what

[00:18:33] you’re agreeing to right now. I

[00:18:34] was like, okay, I got you

[00:18:36] because he he’s just like me.

[00:18:37] He’s just, he’s like, 5 facts.

[00:18:38] facts. There’s no way at time.

[00:18:39] now, he’s still the same way

[00:18:41] but um but yeah and I was like,

[00:18:43] oh, okay. So, you agree and

[00:18:45] then I tried getting him. It

[00:18:46] didn’t work. I’ll I’ll

[00:18:48] eventually get to that one.

[00:18:49] Yeah. That’s so funny. Yeah, I

[00:18:52] uh and that’s super encouraging

[00:18:53] to me because um you know,

[00:18:55] know, that’s that means there’s

[00:18:57] hope, right? Because if it’s if

[00:18:59] it’s fact based and we can

[00:19:00] actually have an intelligent

[00:19:01] logical discussion about it,

[00:19:03] then, hey, there’s hope for

[00:19:04] everybody, you know, because um

[00:19:06] we’re really arguing and

[00:19:07] saying, hey, if somebody’s

[00:19:09] right, something’s wrong. Let’s

[00:19:10] look at the evidence and

[00:19:11] actually come to a good

[00:19:12] conclusion and uh so that’s

[00:19:14] really cool. Okay, I got

[00:19:17] another question here for you.

[00:19:22] Do you think anything would

[00:19:24] ever start to make you go back

[00:19:26] towards atheism or agnostic?

[00:19:27] And that’s again, this is a

[00:19:28] good one for you to Van is um

[00:19:31] um like you know, life has a

[00:19:33] lot of hard things in it.

[00:19:35] There’s a lot of really

[00:19:35] difficult things that happen

[00:19:36] and you guys are just starting

[00:19:37] off here and and uh you’ve got

[00:19:40] uh I mean you’ve got a lot of

[00:19:41] promise and you’ve got a lot of

[00:19:42] great things that can happen

[00:19:43] but obviously you know we can

[00:19:46] see Christians face things that

[00:19:48] are very hard too. Um do you

[00:19:49] think that there’s anything

[00:19:50] that would cause you to go you

[00:19:51] know what II Maybe maybe god’s

[00:19:55] not real. Um at this point, no,

[00:19:58] most definitely not Actually, I

[00:20:00] think where I am right now how

[00:20:04] strong my faith has gone. I

[00:20:05] think um where I know I’m I’m

[00:20:07] not going to go back on it at

[00:20:09] this point. Yeah, I think I’ve

[00:20:10] I’ve gotten to the point where

[00:20:11] it’s just like there’s no way

[00:20:13] this isn’t true, you know, and

[00:20:16] uh so that that’s my question

[00:20:17] for you. What you’re just

[00:20:18] saying there is like why are

[00:20:19] you what what makes you so

[00:20:21] confident? I just I’ve in life

[00:20:23] like I’ve never had this much

[00:20:26] clarity with everything and

[00:20:27] it’s crazy because the Bible

[00:20:28] has a verse for everything.

[00:20:29] Yeah. You just ask you look,

[00:20:31] look it up like Bible verses

[00:20:31] about pain. Yeah. Right there.

[00:20:33] You got it. Yeah. Where’s by

[00:20:35] adversity right there and every

[00:20:35] time I read it, it just gives

[00:20:37] me clarity every time. I never,

[00:20:40] it’s just great. Honestly, it’s

[00:20:42] nice. Oh yeah, man. That’s

[00:20:44] that’s that’s beautiful, man.

[00:20:46] Um no, it would have to be like

[00:20:49] if it was something like

[00:20:50] emotional like like when people

[00:20:52] like someone dies and then

[00:20:54] they’re like, oh god can’t be

[00:20:55] real. Like I think that’s

[00:20:56] stupid. Like stuff happens

[00:20:57] Like, oh my god, I just come on

[00:21:00] but um it would have to be. you

[00:21:02] probably shouldn’t get into

[00:21:04] counseling, man. That’s stupid.

[00:21:07] Yeah, you’d be a counselor.

[00:21:08] Yeah, I know. But um it have to

[00:21:11] be some sort of like evidence

[00:21:13] that points to god not being

[00:21:15] like hard evidence like. Yeah.

[00:21:17] Because as the evidence points

[00:21:18] right now in is so. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:20] And like he was saying, there’s

[00:21:22] like so much stuff in the Bible

[00:21:23] that you can just look up and

[00:21:24] it’s just like there like and

[00:21:26] it like predicts stuff about

[00:21:27] the future like it’s crazy.

[00:21:29] It’s crazy. Yeah. Like I don’t

[00:21:31] know and like there’s like that

[00:21:32] one thing you’re saying where

[00:21:33] the old testament People were

[00:21:36] like, oh yeah, they just

[00:21:38] rewrote those like later so

[00:21:39] that people would think like it

[00:21:41] it happened but they’ll be like

[00:21:44] found some like the original.

[00:21:45] It’s dead Sea skulls. Yeah.

[00:21:46] Yeah. Yeah. Like that’s crazy.

[00:21:48] It is. Yeah. That’s Isaiah

[00:21:49] Fifty-three for those of you

[00:21:50] listening that’s uh they they

[00:21:53] uncovered the prophecies and uh

[00:21:55] they used to say that those

[00:21:57] prophecies were written into

[00:21:58] the Bible after the fact but

[00:21:59] then when they found the Dead

[00:22:00] Sea scrolls there, they were

[00:22:01] still in there and uh just

[00:22:03] shows the prophecies are true.

[00:22:04] That’s Okay and then um

[00:22:11] So, another question. uh you

[00:22:13] know, when you when you look

[00:22:16] back on your life as a at the

[00:22:18] time when you didn’t believe uh

[00:22:20] Mitchell and you’re you’re

[00:22:23] looking at um the way you

[00:22:24] thought, the way you think

[00:22:25] about life, the way you think,

[00:22:26] you just you just said my faith

[00:22:28] has gotten so much stronger and

[00:22:30] um How do you see things? Is

[00:22:33] there anything that you can

[00:22:34] think of specifically where you

[00:22:36] used to think this way about

[00:22:37] life but now you think

[00:22:40] completely different? Has it

[00:22:40] has it has it affected your

[00:22:42] priorities and like uh the

[00:22:44] direction of your life at all

[00:22:45] in any way that you can think

[00:22:47] of? Um I would say, yeah, my

[00:22:51] priorities definitely changed a

[00:22:52] little bit. I’ve um because you

[00:22:53] know, when I was I was an

[00:22:55] atheist or an agnostic, I just

[00:22:57] went to the movie. I don’t

[00:22:58] really care about much. you you

[00:22:59] know, family and that’s about

[00:23:01] it, you know. Yeah. But um Once

[00:23:03] I started diving into

[00:23:04] Christianity, I started

[00:23:05] getting, you know, the bigger

[00:23:06] picture of just like people and

[00:23:08] how loving on other people

[00:23:11] could really change their day

[00:23:12] or their life. Yeah. And um I

[00:23:15] would say my priorities on

[00:23:17] people have changed a lot. Wow,

[00:23:20] that’s really cool. So, when

[00:23:21] you say a lot like give me a

[00:23:23] give me an example of that like

[00:23:25] the way you think. So, when I

[00:23:27] was before I was a Christian,

[00:23:28] you know, when someone’s going

[00:23:29] through a bad day, I was like,

[00:23:30] alright, you know, I’m not

[00:23:31] going to help them out. I’m

[00:23:31] just going to, it’s like bad

[00:23:33] days happen, you know, and it’s

[00:23:34] like, I like you’re like that.

[00:23:36] You’re like that. Just get over

[00:23:37] it. Yeah. but you know, like

[00:23:39] when you see on a bad day, you

[00:23:40] just try to bring him up a

[00:23:41] little bit, lighten their day a

[00:23:43] little bit. It could change

[00:23:44] everything. you know, because

[00:23:45] you don’t know what someone’s

[00:23:46] going through. Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:46] Yeah. You know how their life

[00:23:47] is at home. You know what

[00:23:48] they’re going through and

[00:23:50] that’s what’s definitely

[00:23:51] changed for me. Yeah. And then

[00:23:52] you said that right after you,

[00:23:54] you know, you became a

[00:23:56] believer. Um you had a lot of

[00:23:57] clarity and joy. You said you

[00:23:59] had a lot of joy. What would

[00:24:00] you attribute the joy to? Where

[00:24:01] where is that coming from? I

[00:24:02] mean, we I would say naturally.

[00:24:06] Intuitively, It’s god, right?

[00:24:06] He brings a certain amount of

[00:24:07] joy to us but in your mind is

[00:24:09] there where is that source of

[00:24:10] joy coming from in your mind? I

[00:24:14] don’t know. Honestly, I’ll be.

[00:24:16] I have no clue. Maybe it’s just

[00:24:18] because maybe I enjoy life a

[00:24:19] lot more. Yeah. Since I’ve been

[00:24:21] a Christian, I’ve I’ve just

[00:24:22] been just excited to be, you

[00:24:25] know, around just got to see

[00:24:26] everything. Yeah. Yeah. But CS

[00:24:29] Lewis has a super famous quote.

[00:24:30] He says, I don’t believe um I

[00:24:34] don’t believe in god just

[00:24:35] because of what uh of seeing

[00:24:38] him but I believe in him

[00:24:40] because I can see everything

[00:24:42] else now which is a lot of what

[00:24:44] you’re right? Which is saying

[00:24:46] when I have so much clarity

[00:24:46] now, which uh which is really

[00:24:49] cool. Um so, what would you say

[00:24:51] to somebody who’s um and and

[00:24:53] you’ve already done this with

[00:24:54] like family and stuff? Uh what

[00:24:56] would you say to somebody who’s

[00:24:58] you know a skeptic right now?

[00:25:00] Maybe you know, you’re the

[00:25:02] you’re the Nathan Lee or the

[00:25:02] Cody Boston now and uh you know

[00:25:06] what if I was talking to

[00:25:07] someone like me, I’m dead. Oh

[00:25:08] yeah it’s dead. I’m like

[00:25:11] because they try so I’m like

[00:25:12] they they tried for months,

[00:25:13] maybe a few years. Oh wow. And

[00:25:15] I just refused but um I think

[00:25:17] what I would say is to uh maybe

[00:25:20] You know, give it a chance.

[00:25:21] Yeah. give it like. I mean,

[00:25:23] obviously, week’s not long but

[00:25:24] we can change a lot, you know.

[00:25:25] Yeah. And uh just give it a

[00:25:28] week. read into it and whenever

[00:25:30] you’re feeling sadness, look at

[00:25:32] verse on sadness. See if that

[00:25:33] helps you out a little bit.

[00:25:34] Yeah. Because I know for me,

[00:25:35] whenever I look at verses based

[00:25:36] on what’s going on with me

[00:25:38] always helps every time. That’s

[00:25:40] so cool, man. How encouraging

[00:25:43] Well, um we’re about done here

[00:25:46] so uh any any last thoughts you

[00:25:49] guys have anything you want to

[00:25:50] share? No, I’m Yeah, I think uh

[00:25:53] that was a lot. I think I’m

[00:25:55] just about good. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:57] That was awesome. And uh

[00:25:59] Daisy’s uh Daisy’s been here.

[00:26:01] That’s why uh my my little dog

[00:26:03] here. She doesn’t know when to

[00:26:05] stay away. so we just kind of

[00:26:07] let her roam around today but

[00:26:09] uh okay guys, say goodbye. Bye

[00:26:12] Bye. Okay. again, this is Van

[00:26:15] Neff and Mitchell Ellery and uh

[00:26:17] glad you guys could uh tune in

[00:26:18] and check this out. I hope it’s

[00:26:20] encouraging to you um to This

[00:26:22] is what it’s all about. Like

[00:26:23] when I when I see a student,

[00:26:25] the light bulb goes on and all

[00:26:28] of a sudden, they’re like,

[00:26:29] whoa, this is true. Uh that’s

[00:26:31] what drives me and I guess my

[00:26:34] encouragement to you is if

[00:26:35] you’re listening is this, don’t

[00:26:36] give up. Um the facts God has

[00:26:39] given them to us for a reason.

[00:26:42] Jesus Christ said, I’m the way,

[00:26:43] the truth, and the life. He

[00:26:43] said, I’ve come into the world

[00:26:45] to testify to the truth and I

[00:26:46] think that’s really important

[00:26:48] for us to grab hold of uh

[00:26:49] because we live in a culture

[00:26:50] right now that is questioning

[00:26:51] truth everywhere. Everybody’s

[00:26:53] saying, you can’t know truth.

[00:26:53] They say there’s no truth this

[00:26:55] whole gender identity thing

[00:26:56] that’s all based on if you can

[00:26:59] actually have truth or not

[00:27:00] where everybody gets to make

[00:27:01] their own truth and so, I think

[00:27:03] it’s really important for us as

[00:27:04] Christians, as believers that

[00:27:06] we know the truth well and then

[00:27:07] we can communicate it

[00:27:09] effectively because that’s when

[00:27:10] you get to see um testimonies

[00:27:12] like this where somebody says,

[00:27:14] man, that just opened my eyes

[00:27:16] and I have so much clarity. So,

[00:27:17] hopefully that’s encouraging to

[00:27:19] you guys and uh I’ll see you

[00:27:20] guys again next week. God bless

[00:27:21] you. Take care.