Why I left Christianity with Ryan Rydell

[00:00:00] thanks for being here tonight my name is Kevin Conover and we’re broadcasting down here in Southern California uh

[00:00:06] you’re on educate for Life radio my website’s educate forlife.org you can check it out um we are on K pra 1210

[00:00:13] a.m. uh down here as well as FM 106.1 in North County and then of course we’re

[00:00:18] podcast on Spotify and all the other uh podcasting platforms and uh my guest

[00:00:24] tonight is uh Ryan Rell and uh Ryan and I met over the summer at um we we

[00:00:30] actually were on a program called the blocks uh maybe you’ve heard of it maybe you haven’t but um it’s an

[00:00:36] entrepreneurial program uh and it’s a a contest slash educational event and it

[00:00:43] was a lot of fun I had a really good time and and um I got to meet Ryan I’ll just tell you a little bit of background

[00:00:49] um I was listening to it’s a so the block is a competition and during the

[00:00:55] competition um you speak and you kind of give a pitch for whatever your your organization is or your company is and

[00:01:02] and um I was I was listening to a bunch of people talk and he had won uh one of the the uh breakout seminars and um

[00:01:11] somebody said he’s a really good speaker and I asked I asked hey how did you become such a good speaker and he said

[00:01:17] well you you want to know the the truth and and I said yeah and he said he said I used to be a pastor and uh so anyway

[00:01:24] we ended up um you know talking a little bit about it and I always like to hear

[00:01:29] you know people people’s background where they’re coming from and you know um uh Ryan so that was really

[00:01:35] interesting to me to hear that and then I we chat it a little bit later uh thanks for being willing to come on and talk about your story yeah absolutely

[00:01:42] happy to do it man I was I was uh taking back a little bit when you quartered me with that question uh because you know

[00:01:49] when you show up you expect to talk about business and yeah then of course we ended up talking about uh my previous

[00:01:55] life so to say so that was interesting I’m happy to be here man thanks for having me yeah absolutely yeah it’s a real

[00:02:01] pleasure and um so I just want to find out like um I’m always curious I I’ve

[00:02:07] had a variety of um uh atheist agnostics other people um you know made decisions

[00:02:14] one way or the another some people were atheists and they become Christians some people were Christians they became

[00:02:19] atheists and um maybe you could just tell us a little bit about your background were you um raised in a

[00:02:25] Christian cuz uh just to clarify for our listeners what do you consider yourself now are you atheist are you agnostic U

[00:02:32] where do you stand uh so I I tend not to spit titles around too much but to label myself I

[00:02:38] would consider myself an agnostic atheist okay so um that’s like somebody

[00:02:45] who’s not um completely 100% in a position but that’s

[00:02:50] where you lean is that what you’re saying in in a way it’s again I don’t

[00:02:56] put a ton of weight on the titles because depending who you’re talking to they interpret them in different ways

[00:03:01] but uh the way I see it is that I’m agnostic in the way that I truly accept

[00:03:08] that I don’t know right but however I’m able to say that I am atheist in the

[00:03:14] things that have been presented today I do not I absolutely do not believe those to be true there but I still know that

[00:03:21] there’s things that we simply don’t have answers for therefore agnostic atheist gotcha okay great um so tell us

[00:03:29] a little bit about your background um were you raised in a Christian home I was yeah yeah ever since a child you

[00:03:35] know church was a big part of everything that we did it was you know your standard schedule of you know going to

[00:03:41] be a part of the church family obviously you know being raised it with those sorts of morals and

[00:03:48] teachings and all the way up through my teen years it was a pretty consistent thing in our family absolutely okay and

[00:03:55] do you have brothers and sisters I do yeah big family actually yeah yeah two older sisters an older brother two

[00:04:02] younger brothers there six of us total yeah oh wow yeah that is a big family yeah um okay and then and so um what

[00:04:10] happened as you were growing up as far as uh did you was there a point at which

[00:04:17] were you questioning Christianity as you were growing up or was this uh what was

[00:04:23] your going on in your mind as you’re getting older and you’re going to church

[00:04:28] and you’re doing all these things and and did you go to a Christian School too or did you go to a public high school so

[00:04:34] it was public school and honestly in my youth I was I was probably and I don’t

[00:04:40] mean to speak for my brothers and sisters but I was I was the more um

[00:04:46] dedicated uh Church goer I was the one that was more excited about it always enjoyed it a little bit more and and

[00:04:52] applied a lot of those teachings to my life and by the time I was in my young teen years I was I was committed to

[00:04:57] having a life in the ministry um I was a big part of a lot of the youth groups that we were developing and

[00:05:03] trying to come up with new concepts of evangelism in our communities and just a big part of of a lot of that that life

[00:05:10] in the church and all of my friendships were developed there and the future that I thought I was going to have was was

[00:05:15] there so yeah now what about your brothers and sisters are they um are

[00:05:21] they Believers today or are they um have they kind of gone in the same direction you have or how did that how does that

[00:05:28] go uh so some would be considered more your traditional Christian values and beliefs uh some are more spiritual uh

[00:05:36] others we can’t really identify exactly what it is they believe yeah it’s it’s

[00:05:41] an interesting mix with us yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so so um you decided you

[00:05:47] were going to dedicate yourself to Ministry now how would you um how would you characterize like um you know for a

[00:05:53] lot of people they’ll say like this was the moment where I had this spiritual experience you know what is or I gave my

[00:06:00] life to Christ um did you have that kind of a uh experience in your life when you

[00:06:07] were younger yeah I I would say when I when I felt the full commitment uh when

[00:06:13] I when I dove all the way in right yeah I’d say that’s probably closer to when I was about

[00:06:20] 17ish right around there 16 17 years old yeah that’s when that’s when I

[00:06:26] remember when my family got busy you know and by the way my father is a is a minister to this day my parents are aage

[00:06:34] church coers and lovers of Christ uh you they previously when life got weird

[00:06:42] and busy they weren’t able to go to church all the time and it was right around that I I turned 16 17 uh into my

[00:06:49] later teen years when I was like I don’t care if my family’s going I am gonna go

[00:06:55] and yeah it it was a defining part of my character and who I

[00:07:00] was and who I wanted to be um so I’d say that’s about it probably about 16 17

[00:07:05] years old yeah so there there are you know different denominations of Christianity obviously um what what

[00:07:11] denomination were you a part of uh so I didn’t like identifying with one

[00:07:16] denomination I was very much the Bible believer the non-denominational churches are the ones that really attracted me

[00:07:22] the most uh but I I found myself if there was a denomination that I I

[00:07:28] probably aligned with the most of would have been Southern Baptist okay okay so very uh kind of Evangelical

[00:07:34] uman yeah absolutely and um so Mo a lot of people in the southern um SBC that

[00:07:42] that uh denomination that kind of uh do doctrinally they would say like a person has a born again experience you know out

[00:07:48] of John chapter uh three is that what you would say you you did too or absolutely right right around there I

[00:07:55] remember I specifically remember a treat I went on with my youth group and having just in what felt like an aob Body

[00:08:03] Experience uh when I was right around that about 17 years old or so yeah so so

[00:08:09] then F so um you’re you’re getting older and all at what point did you um end up

[00:08:14] becoming a pastor um you you became a pastor of a church is that right yeah so

[00:08:20] I wasn’t a a full-time uh actual Pastor or uh you know charged with a

[00:08:25] congregation but I was a licensed Minister through the Southern Baptist Association I was about 22 years old

[00:08:31] when I got that license and I worked there worked running number of Youth groups uh came in charge with some of

[00:08:39] the uh worship leading as well did a lot of evangelism there uh and then of

[00:08:44] course started some other side programs just of course to promote the kingdom of

[00:08:50] the Lord and do a number of different things that weren’t specifically tied to a

[00:08:55] congregation okay gotcha yeah now um so at what point as your you know your

[00:09:02] pastor and everything was there a point at which you started to have doubts or there are things um that you started to

[00:09:09] question do you remember when that process started was it sudden or was it gradual yeah so I think everybody’s

[00:09:17] being honest with themselves I think the the truthful answer is there’s always some doubts it’s just a way some people

[00:09:24] handle them right yeah in my particular case the doubts were always there is just how do I how do I view them how do

[00:09:30] I handle them uh what answers do I get from them um how do you how do you move

[00:09:36] away from them that sort of stuff but there was a clear moment for me where it

[00:09:41] it’s it changed uh where I how I viewed myself right how I viewed my future the

[00:09:48] label that I applied to myself change we’d be talking right around we’re

[00:09:53] talking about I was about 27 28 or so right in that time frame um there was a

[00:10:01] some work that I was doing and one of my supervisors in that business was a Muslim who’s super kind um very well

[00:10:09] educated loved having honest debates about the different views that we had on religion and uh kind of the source of

[00:10:16] our beliefs and the differences between them but and I loved having conversations with them they were always

[00:10:23] they were always just I loved them absolutely love learning from him and me being able to teach him and us to share

[00:10:29] are different views on the world and at one point I’d like to say about a year

[00:10:34] and a half after I met him and we’re having this conversations there was one question I didn’t have an answer for and

[00:10:41] as our conversations would normally go we’re being honest and I said I’m going to come back to you with that one so I

[00:10:46] want to go back I want to do my research you know come back with more ammunition in the magazine to you know be an honest

[00:10:53] forthright teacher of the gospel and unfortunately I I didn’t get

[00:10:59] the answers that I wanted or that I expected uh nor did I believe that the

[00:11:05] answers um that I got were necessarily what would F

[00:11:11] further what I viewed as as my religion so I kept on doing more research and I

[00:11:16] dug further and further and further and that became this large tree of of

[00:11:22] different branches of research that took a couple of years uh where I just slowly

[00:11:27] started chipping away at at what I believed and why I believed it and some of the empirical evidence behind things

[00:11:33] some of the things that i’ had been taught and I just took as the truth I was starting I was starting to piece a lot more together um and for me as an

[00:11:41] individual my my faith slowly kind of fell apart over that year and a half two-year process so so what was that big

[00:11:48] question what was the question that he asked you that started that whole process it was so and I I I hate to say

[00:11:54] it this way it was so long ago now and there’s so much research I honestly can’t remember oh what a I honestly

[00:12:01] cannot remember but I distinctly remember coming home and telling and telling my my wife at the

[00:12:08] time um it’s like I didn’t have an answer for once I didn’t have an answer

[00:12:13] and and I was like I have to figure it out and but but then it it ended up uh in the I remember the first big piece of

[00:12:20] of research was the proof empirical proof that Jesus Christ lived as the

[00:12:26] gospels explain that he lived his life uh and I I was unable to find any of that I do remember so is that like the

[00:12:32] the the veracity of the Life of Christ or the the veracity of the gospels as they written yeah more the historicity

[00:12:39] of it but yeah it really really like because i’ I’ve always been okay even to

[00:12:45] this day I’m okay with the the concepts of what he meant uh for people and and

[00:12:50] kind of the theology the the preaching of the kindness and the love and and you know

[00:12:57] erasing the Old Law and coming with the knew all all of these beautiful things that that that people love about

[00:13:03] Jesus but there’s very very specific claims about him with very specific timelines and there’s four different

[00:13:08] very clearly different contradictory tellings of that story in in the holy book uh so I wanted to go come in and

[00:13:15] find like okay what can I actually say for real actually happened not not this

[00:13:20] allegorical stuff I I want to like what do we know for sure I was okay with that being a super small list I just wanted

[00:13:27] to know that way somebody came to me and said what do we have for like objective

[00:13:34] empirical proof that Jesus actually lived I wanted to have at least something and I was unable to come up

[00:13:39] with anything that I was okay with presenting to anybody else so you mean you mean like actual

[00:13:46] like so I’m just curious because that’s an interesting question what would you what would qualify as what would have

[00:13:52] for you what would have qualified for that because there’s quite a bit of archaeological evidence that supports you know um a lot of the the the the

[00:14:00] people in the Bible a lot of the um events that happen in the Bible uh you know like the the the temple being

[00:14:06] destroyed in 870 you know all these sorts of things there’s there’s a lot of archaeological evidence what is it that

[00:14:11] you were you were looking for specifically that you felt you needed in order to be confident I I can’t say I

[00:14:17] was looking for anyone specific thing that I didn’t preempt this search with saying like Okay I must have this this

[00:14:23] and this and this that would be disingenuous to try to it at at the point in my life I was still hardcore

[00:14:31] just trying to be really good Evangelical for god um I just I just

[00:14:37] wanted something that I could honestly present to somebody who didn’t believe any of it like they they’re like yeah

[00:14:43] like we we believe there’s a being he’s a Muslim right he’s like so like he he

[00:14:49] believed that Jesus was a person he just believes he was very different type of a person than than what Christians believe

[00:14:56] they so he’s like what he’s not God In the Flesh don’t believe he’s God In the Flesh right right um and I’m in this

[00:15:03] position where I’m like I don’t want to put limits on it like I I’m just looking for something that I personally feel good about presenting to somebody that

[00:15:10] doesn’t believe the same way I do that doesn’t have the same Foundation of belief and teaching and raising in this

[00:15:16] family U what can I say or do to even make them think oh yeah may maybe maybe

[00:15:22] the Bible is correct interesting so through that process did you ever consider Islam as a possibility or did

[00:15:30] you move right from Christianity towards you know the agnostic atheist kind of

[00:15:35] position I I did not consider Islam a a possible answer um that that was

[00:15:41] certainly not part of my research uh my I think how it went for me was more

[00:15:49] about the moment I I discovered that I no longer 100% trusted that the Bible

[00:15:55] was perfectly accurate historically speaking I I dove more and more and more into

[00:16:01] many of those things and it was really just a reflection on what am I willing to believe and it got to the point where

[00:16:07] I I said I have to take off my Bible goggles and I have to stop seeing this through the perspective of God must be

[00:16:14] real Jesus Jesus must be the Savior and start viewing this from a position of the people that I’m trying to convince

[00:16:20] of that that the way I see the world the way the Bible teaches the world the way the Church offers them this this life

[00:16:27] and this future that that’s the right way I needed to stop viewing it from that perspective and start viewing it

[00:16:32] from a from a blank slate and when I was able to to do that uh I I found that I

[00:16:38] no longer believed it it or any other of the religious claims that currently exists which is

[00:16:44] where if if we go back earlier which is where it comes to that’s where I’m an atheist that the current claims of any

[00:16:50] religion across the board I no longer believed to them and then I started seeking okay like do I believe anything

[00:16:57] um and that’s where I where realize I’m an agnostic cuz I I I simply don’t know like we don’t know enough to know for

[00:17:04] sure if there is a higher power or a supernatural being or or creation at all

[00:17:09] or Creator at all we don’t know uh but what I do know is that of the answers

[00:17:14] that are presented for that question today I 100% do not believe them and therefore for that that’s when about two

[00:17:21] years into that i’ like to say right around 29 30 years old that’s when I finally accepted the

[00:17:27] the title of agnostic atheist okay and and so um so uh you know obviously other people

[00:17:36] have moved in the other direction they’ve said like you know Anthony flu he’s a super famous uh he was a super

[00:17:41] famous atheist he passed away a while ago but before he died he wrote a whole book that said like um I apologize for

[00:17:49] telling people there is no God and when they interviewed him they he said the scientific evidence is overwhelming for

[00:17:56] God’s existence now he didn’t become a believer in Christ but he did believe in God um he his the

[00:18:03] title of his book is there is no God within no cross out and then a he he actually used to debate um CS Lewis and

[00:18:10] he was for 50 years he was and he said what what led him to the conclusion he said that the scientific evidence was in

[00:18:16] its infancy before and you couldn’t really draw conclusions about God’s existence based on um based on our lack

[00:18:25] of knowledge about science before but he said the integrated complex of everything in the universe the way

[00:18:30] biology works with chemistry works with physics and when it all came down to it he said it was undeniable that God

[00:18:37] exists and a lot of you know a lot of scientists have come to that conclusion now I know that’s not all scientists a lot of scientists have gone the other

[00:18:42] direction but I was just curious as far as um so you um for me based on what

[00:18:51] I’ve looked at um because you know I I look into lots of challenging questions because I’m I’m I’m trying to use my

[00:18:57] brain here to come to the truth I don’t want I don’t want to believe anything that’s not true honestly I’m not interested in that I

[00:19:04] tell my students all the time look if this wasn’t true i’ I’d leave on Sundays and I’d go surfing I wouldn’t I wouldn’t

[00:19:09] be sitting you know in church doing this but we share that I’m I’m a truth Seeker

[00:19:14] as well yeah yeah exactly and I’m but I’m just thoroughly convinced that I can’t find a way around the scientific

[00:19:20] evidence and I feel like I I would actually have to deny what I see as the only rational uh option for our

[00:19:27] existence y if I were to go in the other direction that’s never been something that and you’re obviously on the other

[00:19:33] side of the coin there uh that’s never been something for you that um you don’t see evidence for God in that regard I I

[00:19:41] do not no years ago I remember reading much of that so I saw multiple

[00:19:47] perspectives and keep in mind I have like I said I have if Avid loving amazing caring parents who I have a

[00:19:55] beautiful relationship with uh who you know love the Lord and my my father is a

[00:20:02] associate pastor at a church here in the area um they are constantly trying to share pieces of that with me especially

[00:20:10] when I was first going through my struggle and and and I like I said I’m a

[00:20:17] truth Seeker I’m I’m going to look into many of those things um I haven’t in

[00:20:23] some time just because I I I love my life I love where I’m at settled in but

[00:20:29] many many times in those earli years I’ve read through it all but no I never really found anything that was convincing in that way not for me okay

[00:20:36] yeah gotcha um one other thing along those same lines um you know everybody

[00:20:43] has confirmation bias right so uh no matter who what your position is if you’re a Christian if you’re an atheist

[00:20:50] if you’re a Muslim whatever um your brain tries to find evidence for what it

[00:20:57] almost wants to believe it’s kind kind of like you’ve taken a position now you’re going to try to do you feel like

[00:21:02] um there was anything going cuz I I had a friend and um you know this is a well you probably know about this too but um

[00:21:10] I had a friend who he had an affair and he grew up completely Christian had an

[00:21:16] affair and then as soon as he had the affair all of a sudden he was like I don’t believe in God anymore and uh that

[00:21:23] was kind of slightly irritating to me because I was like dude why and actually confronted him on

[00:21:29] it and I said do you think that it’s possible that the reason all of a sudden that now you don’t believe in God out of

[00:21:34] the blue is because you’re not comfortable with the decision you made and so now you’re using these questions

[00:21:43] to justify the idea that God doesn’t exist so you don’t have to deal with the guilt

[00:21:50] of you know what you did and he actually at the time uh he was very honest he

[00:21:56] said yeah that’s a real possibility and um so is do you feel like there’s any

[00:22:02] element of that in your life or is that uh you feel that you can you can um you

[00:22:08] know authentically say no no that was not my and my

[00:22:14] situation there’s two there’s two answers to that one is going to be a bit more harsh than the other I I’ll start

[00:22:20] with the softer one U the in the in the first part for the first like year of

[00:22:26] this process I was fighting everything that I possibly could to to keep my

[00:22:31] faith and find that answer and just go for it even when I was feeling like I’m not sure if I believe this anyone was

[00:22:36] like no there’s no way like there’s absolutely no way like like the things I felt the experiences I’ve had the things

[00:22:43] all of the things that I that I know in my gut in my soul are are real are true

[00:22:49] like I’m living for the kingdom of the Lord there’s there’s no other way I was fighting it my confirmation bias U tried

[00:22:57] to keep me Church yeah it and it unfortunately failed me um it I I say

[00:23:04] unfortunately in in in the moment it felt like unfortunately um it it broke me I didn’t know who I was anymore um it

[00:23:12] almost broke my marriage at the time and it changed who I felt like I was and who

[00:23:18] I felt like I was going to be and it it literally shook the foundation of what I thought life was supposed to be

[00:23:26] about I was raising three kids at the time um literally every every piece of

[00:23:32] my core being uh was shaken and I was unsure of of how to handle that that was one of the some of the most painful

[00:23:38] couple years that I went through when you spend so much time committing your life to something and then and then in a

[00:23:44] very short amount of time you’re kind of self-destruct in a way is kind of what it felt like

[00:23:51] yeah um to answer now uh the the

[00:23:56] harsher answer is um absolutely not I I feel like going

[00:24:02] through that broke my ability to be affected by confirmation bias I know that sounds a bit

[00:24:08] egotistical but I I’m very cognizant of how that can affect people because I’ve

[00:24:13] gone through so many debates and have to have this conversation with so so many over the years I see it in action and I

[00:24:20] I lo that I I really do I I think somebody like yourself you’re saying

[00:24:25] you’re a truth Seeker if you’re a truth Seeker you have to figure out and be able to acknowledge when it’s happening

[00:24:31] when you truly do have those goggles on no matter what your belief or lack of belief is you have to be able to open up

[00:24:37] to to everything around you and is you know stop thinking that you know all the

[00:24:44] answers yeah that’s good advice I mean for anybody honestly I mean in all walks of life I mean I we all need that so

[00:24:51] we’re all we’re all limited in our knowledge and and uh so humility is a a

[00:24:57] really good uh virtue yeah um so you know um you were saying

[00:25:04] that you know you really look up to your parents and you you have a lot of respect for them and everything um do

[00:25:11] you think do you do you think that Christianity is good for society um even

[00:25:17] if it’s let’s say you know it wasn’t true and obviously I believe it’s true

[00:25:23] and you don’t but um let’s say it wasn’t true and do you think it’s good for society as a whole or do you think that

[00:25:30] if more people em embrace the agnostic atheist position that society as a whole

[00:25:36] would be better uh two-part answer I think that Christianity can be good for the

[00:25:42] individual uh but but as society as for Humanity I I do not believe Christianity

[00:25:48] is good long term and why is that I think it I think it

[00:25:54] promotes um I think it promotes people to just accept something because they’re told I

[00:26:00] think the religion as a whole and and keep in mind not specifically Christianity I I don’t mean to single out Christianity in this way I think the

[00:26:07] religion promotes for the most part um Blind Faith uh without requiring any

[00:26:15] evidence without requiring any support I think that it many of its teachings even

[00:26:20] to this day many religions promote morally bankrupt Concepts and I think that the world for

[00:26:27] example what say um again there’s this is not all religions and this is not all believers

[00:26:34] I think that Christianity is a whole for individuals there’s a lot of great people they don’t share this belief but

[00:26:39] in general if you look at a lot of the religious teachings out there um I could easily make an argument and start a

[00:26:45] church around the concept that I could sell my daughter into uh

[00:26:51] slavery to her rapist Oh you mean based off the Old

[00:26:56] Testament correct oh okay okay okay I would obviously

[00:27:01] dispute that um but but um I know that that’s a very popular argument um that’s

[00:27:07] out there and and uh I’ve discussed it with quite a few people but but um okay I see what you’re saying so you’re

[00:27:12] saying that that there are things taught in the Bible that are actually um very immoral that that um people take believe

[00:27:22] without actually you know they’re blindly believing it is what you’re saying yeah and there’s now keep in mind

[00:27:29] there’s there’s I don’t know a single Christian that would actually do that

[00:27:35] yeah like I I don’t know a single Christian that says I personally don’t know one that says that they will they

[00:27:42] will never eat pork ever again I don’t know a single Christian that says that uh they they’re not allowed to wear

[00:27:48] clothing with um you know different Fabrics in it like there’s there’s a lot of teachings in the Old Testament they

[00:27:54] and obviously they claim well that’s the Old Testament we live in the New Testament Jus came to you know abolish

[00:28:00] the old and and in with the new I I understand all of those teachings um but

[00:28:05] it’s in the book it’s in the book and and if there if the god that they that they believe

[00:28:11] in wrote that law and he he’s the one that dictated it he created it all he he

[00:28:16] wrote the rules that we were to live by before he wrot he wrote the system in which he was going to come out of that and he wrote the new ones as well and if

[00:28:23] he’s ever if he’s not ever changing he’s consistently the same and he loves the same and he he is forever glorious um

[00:28:32] then I have to include that part of the book as well in the general concepts of

[00:28:37] that religion and I I believe that somebody that is willing to

[00:28:43] say this is okay because it was before um I think that promoting that

[00:28:49] concept they like we get to accept that because it’s yesterday is I I think that’s morally

[00:28:56] bankrupt I think we need to acknowledge that that was wrong it was absolutely wrong and we shouldn’t accept it and we

[00:29:01] should be able to move forward Beyond it um the idea that we have to accept it in faith and believe what our pastor say no

[00:29:06] matter what not question anything and um I think that those are things that we need to move Beyond and we need to start

[00:29:13] questioning everything around us uh so we’re no longer suckers for whatever our

[00:29:18] parents tell us is true you know and I agree completely I I mean um I

[00:29:24] personally have uh you know I went to a public high school and I bumped into all kinds of viewpoints all kinds of

[00:29:30] different people and and teachers that that challenged me and I went looking for answers because I was like whoa I

[00:29:37] need to know what’s going on here what is true and um and for me like dealing

[00:29:44] with those types of questions because I’ve had those conversations um I think there are actually really really good

[00:29:49] answers to the slavery issue and to all these other issues where a lot of things

[00:29:55] are brought up and they’re they’re treated as if okay hey this is totally backwards I think what’s really

[00:30:01] difficult is that a lot of people and I know you’ve probably heard this before but I think I think there are better answers than a lot of people actually

[00:30:07] realize that that are out there they just say hey um you have to get back into the context uh yeah but under what

[00:30:14] context would there would it ever be okay to to allow slavery and uh I think

[00:30:20] that’s a reasonable question but I do think there are actually really good good answers out there I was I was U

[00:30:26] handcuffed to an atheist for 24 hours by BuzzFeed and he wanted to talk about that very issue that’s what he wanted to

[00:30:32] talk about yeah those those are like those are like easy target options for a lot

[00:30:37] of people and you know if if you bring up the the question morality those are going to be things that people bring up

[00:30:43] like I said this stuff doesn’t weigh too heavily on me I’m pretty easy to have a conversation with because like I said I

[00:30:48] don’t like if me and you were Ching together for 24 hours it’s not like I’m sitting her thinking that you’re actually okay with doing any stuff today

[00:30:57] like you I that you’re not that person I know my parents not those people any of the other believers who I’m I’m I’m

[00:31:02] friends with I do business with I I I love people who are who are believers there’s I have nothing wrong with any of

[00:31:08] them or or their moral code but I do see a lot of questionable decisions that they’re making based on the fundamentals

[00:31:15] that they were taught as kids they were indoctrinated into a certain type of thinking into a a certain type of faith

[00:31:21] and and I think that society as a whole across the world would be better if we

[00:31:26] were no longer taught what what God to believe in based on what country we were born

[00:31:32] in you know it’s interesting because um um people have almost it seems an innate

[00:31:38] desire to believe in God um atheism only makes up a very small percentage of

[00:31:43] people you know that are committed atheists there’s an increase in the amount of people that are agnostic for

[00:31:48] sure but but um it almost seems natural

[00:31:54] there was even a study done on this they said that uh people have a sense that God exists even if you know when they

[00:32:01] see a beautiful the Grand Canyon or something like that um and and other

[00:32:06] people say ah well that’s Evolution do you do you fall in line with Evolution do you believe in in evolution or do you

[00:32:12] just withhold judgment as far as that’s concerned specifically about Evolution

[00:32:20] because because I think you make a good point about the question of just you know the awe of the world the beauty

[00:32:27] yeah of of the cosmos right that is something that I I love I

[00:32:34] sit and off of it all the time I enjoy it very much U that feeling that I get that feeling does not make me wonder

[00:32:40] like there’s got to be a Creator it just leaves me in awe of the life beauty that

[00:32:46] I experience and it makes me appreciate it more because I’m here for a fleeting moment to enjoy it I’m going to make the

[00:32:52] best of it while I have it um I don’t get that feeling U I do understand that

[00:32:57] psychologic ically speaking Humanity does like to seek answers to questions they don’t they don’t have answers for

[00:33:03] uh which is why we have so many different gods that have been written and written off uh over the

[00:33:10] centuries because we’re just trying to come up with answers to questions and I get it and again I’m agnostic we do not

[00:33:16] have all the answers to all the questions we have some answers to some that we didn’t have a hundred years ago a thousand years ago you know 2,000

[00:33:24] 3,000 years ago when when the the Abraham religion started popping off um

[00:33:31] the but the question about Evolution yeah I do subscribe to the theory of evolution as as science understands and

[00:33:37] and projects it today it that that conversation usually breaks off into okay well when did it

[00:33:44] start what about creationism all of those sorts of things and uh those are much deeper conversations that I am not

[00:33:51] educated enough to to fully talk about at least at at this level but but yes I

[00:33:57] I do I do um I do take did be when you decided um do you

[00:34:05] has your morality changed at all as far as you know um what you see as right and

[00:34:11] wrong and everything do you have a different type of morality now than you did as a Christian or is it basically

[00:34:16] the same or what would you say I I would say I I feel like the same

[00:34:23] person in that way for the most part with some Evolution towards what I feel was maybe even more

[00:34:31] uh I don’t want to say more moral I that’s that’s a conversation for

[00:34:37] another weekl long podcast if you want to have it U I don’t want to say more moral but

[00:34:43] but sometimes these days I feel more passionate about standing up for what’s

[00:34:48] right what I believe is right um standing up for others and you know be

[00:34:54] just just being a good voice for people who who can’t stand up for themselves you know yeah you know just just my

[00:35:00] moral code that I grew up with as a Bible believer there’s a couple of things that I no longer attribute to um

[00:35:08] but the but for the most part yeah I yeah here a I

[00:35:15] um I enjoy an alcoholic beverage from time to time now yeah so much when I was in the

[00:35:22] church yeah if you’re part of the SBC you can yeah but if you’re part of

[00:35:27] Calvary Chapel you can both somewhat non-denominational

[00:35:33] uh so so this is a real kind of uh touchy subject personal subject don’t

[00:35:39] don’t feel like you have to answer it but um you know regarding the issue of like abortion I’m just curious did your

[00:35:45] viewpoint on that particular issue change from belief to non-belief or did

[00:35:52] it not change I have I’ve always held the same fundamental uh position on the

[00:35:58] on the topic of abortion the way I presented it and the way I talked about it publicly has

[00:36:06] changed I am a lot more forthright in my position where u i I am a pro choice U

[00:36:15] with the caveat that I always would prefer life I think I think most people would prefer life I prefer life but I I

[00:36:24] am 100% Today always going to stand off for a woman’s right to choose for herself or her doctor’s right to to help

[00:36:31] advise and assist and what’s what what’s right for her and her baby um but yeah

[00:36:37] I’m 100% po choice and I will always support uh pushing forward that uh that

[00:36:43] world now would you were you were you pro-choice before um also or did that

[00:36:49] change I was I was i’ had always been pro-choice more but I was more so

[00:36:55] pushing the the pro the pro life in the way that like I don’t want to see any

[00:37:01] child die or Lo loss of any life I don’t want to see any woman have to go through the stress and the struggle of having to

[00:37:08] even consider an abortion the things that have to happen with and two and

[00:37:14] upon a woman where they have to make that decision or they’re even struggling with the thought of is this even an

[00:37:20] option for me um I don’t I don’t wish that upon any woman I’m also a man and I

[00:37:25] don’t know what that feels like I will never have the opportunity to to feel what that would be like um and therefore

[00:37:32] I’m always going to leave that up to woman to to choose and I think everybody that says otherwise is simply pushing a

[00:37:39] religious Viewpoint I I don’t question that life is always preferred I’ve always prefer thought that that was the

[00:37:44] most beautiful way um but to then assume that we must force a woman to do what I

[00:37:51] no absolutely not I I was a lot lighter in my opinion while I was in the church I’ve always been pro choice that has not

[00:37:58] changed I’m just a lot more vocal and strong in my position on it today gotcha

[00:38:03] okay um and I I’m kind of hopping around here I made a list of questions so yeah

[00:38:09] sorry if that’s yeah um so um now you said you have kids

[00:38:16] is um how do you were you did you already have kids before um you made the

[00:38:23] transition uh or and did that uh affect your parenting at all or did you

[00:38:30] what is your stance now that um I had a I had another atheist on my program a

[00:38:36] while ago and we were walking out of the radio studio and he goes he goes Kevin

[00:38:42] um um I have some news you’re G to like and I said what what’s going on and he

[00:38:47] goes my seven-year-old yesterday just told me he believes in God we start you know we we started

[00:38:53] laughing he’s he was a good friend of mine and uh and so I’m just curious like

[00:38:59] how do you navigate um you know sharing this sort of thing with your kids as far

[00:39:05] as you know what they grew up believing and everything yeah so yes they I was

[00:39:10] still in the church and Minister when they were all born I started very early by the way I was very very young when I

[00:39:15] had my kids my first uh my son was born when I was 20 years old by the time I was 23 I had all three of my children it

[00:39:22] just bang bang bang just knocked them out it’s a good strategy

[00:39:28] yeah yeah so they were still pretty young though and they were in their young years of course we went to church

[00:39:34] quite a bit uh they toured around and watch me play and go to all the events and I you know as babies there’s only so

[00:39:42] much B churches are glorified babysitters for you know one twoy old babies while you’re at service um but

[00:39:49] you know as as they started coming of age and starting asking questions in the very early very early stages of that I

[00:39:54] was still a Believer and when I Ed like to answer your question during the transition I started to move more

[00:40:01] towards uh letting them decide I I never pushed atheism or

[00:40:07] agnosticism on them uh my wife at the time uh was still a Believer we were

[00:40:12] surrounded with family that went to church consistently and for for some time we would still go to Holiday

[00:40:17] services and I just told my my kids that to you know be respectful and I’ve

[00:40:23] raised them to be good people and they were constantly presented with the concepts of of the Lord and you know

[00:40:31] belief is Jesus as their Savior and a ton of church opportunities for them to learn all of the different angles on

[00:40:37] life uh and they I’ll I’ll let them speak for themselves on what they do or do not

[00:40:44] believe today okay gotcha so um so yeah

[00:40:50] that’s that’s interesting I’ve heard that and I don’t know how true it is I’ve heard that the stats are that kids

[00:40:57] what um where the father tends to go is where the kid kids tend to go I don’t

[00:41:03] know how true that is or not but I thought it was really interesting um yeah we we can we can offline we can

[00:41:08] have a conversation about my children um sure yeah I don’t believe but the but I

[00:41:14] can tell you in terms of how I rais them I I never really changed the way I raised them like I’ve always been the

[00:41:19] same dad the the fun loving light-hearted you know hard on the things that matter light on the things

[00:41:24] that don’t kind of kind of dad but when it came to church I just kind of let them decide they were given plenty of

[00:41:30] opportunities uh to go or not to go and to believe or not believe well that’s awesome well um I

[00:41:38] really appreciate you being on um we’re just about out of time here um my guest

[00:41:43] this evening has been Ryan Rell if you’re listening and um I just met him over the summer and I love to have conversations about where people are

[00:41:50] coming from and Ryan you’re in Chicago right yeah we’re just outside of Chicago yeah and and you’re running multiple

[00:41:56] companies uh you have a marketing company and a few other companies are getting off the ground and we do a lot over here yeah we

[00:42:04] stay busy I know you gotta keep busy um so and you might see uh me and Ryan in a

[00:42:11] future show on the blocks if you um I think it’s either on Facebook or Amazon

[00:42:17] Prime or just on their website uh the blocks it’s an entrepreneurial show if you’re an entrepreneur you might find it

[00:42:23] really interesting and um it was a lot of fun over the summer so well uh Ryan in the future I’d love to

[00:42:29] have you on again if you’re if you’re interested just to dialogue over some of these issues um I might get together a

[00:42:34] group of kind of Christians and atheists just to dialogue and and uh I like to have Round Table discussions and uh you

[00:42:40] know what the Bible says iron sharpens iron so yeah no doubt about it I would love that man sure I would love okay

[00:42:48] great well thanks a lot for um hanging out Ryan I appreciate your time and uh I wish you the best yeah you too my man

[00:42:54] thanks Kevin bye bye good night when you need tires or service count on Conover

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[00:43:59] 0766 hi this is Jason Hall president of team H loans a branch of synergy1

[00:44:04] lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for the profound impact he’s had on mine and

[00:44:10] my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our kids were his students his knowledge and

[00:44:15] passion have taught us all how important it is to be Defenders of our faith it’s our honor and privilege to support Kevin

[00:44:21] and his show it is our sincere hope and prayer that you will continue to learn to be Defenders of your faith through

[00:44:27] Kevin’s radio show and through his educate for Life teachings thank you Kevin from the hall family and team Home

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