Apologetics Debate with Elijah & Kaitlyn Walker

[00:00:00] thanks for being here today my name is Kevin Conover I’m your host on the educate for Life program we’re

[00:00:06] broadcasting down here in Southern California on kprz 12 10 a.m as well as FM 106.1 in North County and then of

[00:00:13] course we’re podcasts on Google podcasts and uh all the different podcasts that are available and we’re also on YouTube

[00:00:20] so um we have a great program this evening I’m really excited

[00:00:26] um you know my my background is apologetics and I I’m an apologetics teacher I’ve been doing this for 16

[00:00:31] years now a lot of fun I’m in the middle of it I’m still alive uh a full-time

[00:00:36] teacher uh right now I’m teaching at a Christian High School I teach 12th graders apologetics and I’m emphasizing

[00:00:43] The Importance of Being able to defend what you believe in and being able to come to communicate effectively about

[00:00:50] what you believe in and this is really critical and I go to homeschool conventions all over the country and uh

[00:00:57] one of the conventions I was at actually not too long ago in Arizona I had a

[00:01:02] young man come up to the table and one of the ways I always start conversations with people is I say if someone asked

[00:01:07] you how you know the Bible is true what would your response be what would you say and uh frequently a lot of kids kind

[00:01:15] of stumble around and they have a very difficult time with that question and um they’re they’re kind of looking for

[00:01:21] answers and and and then we get into a great discussion but every once in a while a young man or woman will give me

[00:01:28] some answers that are real impressive that I’m like wow somebody’s been educating you and that’s what happened

[00:01:33] here um with Elijah Walker he came up to my table and started talking to me and gave

[00:01:39] me some really good answers so and his sister’s name is Caitlin uh I’ve just recently got to meet her and uh you guys

[00:01:46] thanks for a lot for being on the show today yeah thank you so much for having us absolutely so Elijah I just wanted to

[00:01:53] start off with that question you know the same question I asked you at the convention there in Arizona afhe and um

[00:01:59] if somebody asked you how do you know that the Bible is true what are some of the answers that you would give them

[00:02:05] um to give them confidence that the Bible is true so immediately what comes to mind when

[00:02:11] I’m asked that question is first off I know that there’s a God because I look

[00:02:16] around at this world and I see there has to be a designer and so from there you

[00:02:22] say okay there are so many people’s ideas about God and then you can look to

[00:02:28] Islam you can look to Mormonism but the one that sticks out is Christianity because in the Bible we can see first

[00:02:34] off there are no contradictions in the Bible and this book was written over many years many languages many different

[00:02:41] authors however it doesn’t contradict itself it maintains a consistency and the reason for that is that one God that

[00:02:49] we know exists used man to write what he wanted conveyed and so if I look at the Bible and I see hey I can trust in this

[00:02:57] word meaning I can trust in the god it presents which is Yahweh additionally there’s so much historical evidence

[00:03:04] evidence and always the Bible time and time again is affirmed in every aspect

[00:03:09] and so those are just a few of the reasons why I know the Bible is true I love it I love it that’s so fantastic

[00:03:16] yeah and um that’s what caused me to take an interest in Elijah I was like hey what in the world where did he get these

[00:03:22] answers from Elijah how old are you I just turned 17. yeah there you go so right

[00:03:28] um at a young age already be able to give pretty concrete reasons why you believe the Bible and what I found out

[00:03:35] from him was that he is a part of a speech and debate team and uh and he

[00:03:40] said this is how I’ve done it and and correct me if I’m wrong Elijah you I think you said to me that you actually were engaged in debate over apologetic

[00:03:48] issues is that correct sometimes the debate topics usually deal

[00:03:54] with societal issues however outside of a round I’ve definitely gotten into individual debates with people about

[00:04:01] apologetic issues so so for our listeners the reason I thought this was

[00:04:06] so important that we talk about it is because it is so critical for young people in this day and age to be able to give good

[00:04:13] answers in the past when the culture was predominantly Christian oriented right

[00:04:18] in the 1970s over 90 of people claim to have a Christian world view today we’re down to about 65 percent making that

[00:04:25] claim and so we’re in a culture that’s far more hostile far more skeptical than ever before and for that reason it’s

[00:04:33] more important than ever before that young people are able to dialogue over these issues and talk intelligently

[00:04:38] about them and then um Elijah how many brothers and sisters do you have

[00:04:43] I have four brothers and sisters the oldest is she’s my sister she’s in her

[00:04:49] 30s and then comes a brother he’s almost 30 and then my wonderful beautiful

[00:04:54] sister Caitlyn and then in between us is another wonderful beautiful sister Emily okay

[00:05:01] he’s got the uh The Godly uh you know compliments down here that’s awesome

[00:05:07] that’s great so Caitlin tell us a little bit about your journey um you were in speech and debate as well

[00:05:13] is that correct yeah that’s correct um I competed in high school for four years and speeching of Ages took me from

[00:05:21] being a very shy reserved person who I would not be talking to most people that

[00:05:26] I talked to today I’m just very shy intimidated starting conversations um love talking with people about God

[00:05:32] but was so scared starting conversations that I didn’t often get the chance to and it just took me from that to someone

[00:05:39] who was able to actually have conversations with people about politics issues

[00:05:45] um and who is more confident talking about my faith and so just take competing for four years doing both

[00:05:52] speech and the debate topics really helped me um just become more confident in sharing

[00:05:58] my face oh that that’s a wonderful plug right there for speech and debate because so many people are afraid of public

[00:06:04] speaking and um not not just when it comes to apologetics but just talking to people in general like you said uh that

[00:06:10] is a really valuable skill to be able to speak in front of people regardless of what what your career is and what you’re

[00:06:16] doing so that’s awesome so Caitlyn um now you are actually interested in

[00:06:23] apologetics I know Elijah is also but you’re this is something that you are you want to make it a lifelong Pursuit

[00:06:29] is apologetics is that correct yes I’m studying in college I’m a Biblical and Theological Studies major

[00:06:35] right now and I’m studying to the vehicle wow that’s so neat so what is it

[00:06:42] that caused you to decide um you know this is something that I I wanna and for those of you who are listening I know I take it for granted

[00:06:49] sometimes that people know what apologetics is but uh I’ve learned that that I shouldn’t do that because

[00:06:54] um the word is not common among you know out and about and it comes from a Greek

[00:07:00] word apology it means to defend for those who of you who are listening and so specifically apologetics deals with

[00:07:06] defending or answering the tough questions people have about God in the Bible uh Caitlyn what caused you to

[00:07:11] decide that you wanted to pursue apologetics specifically

[00:07:16] yeah what got me into apologetics initially was the creation debate I read a book by Lawrence Richards called it

[00:07:23] couldn’t just happen and that really just introduced me to the difference between special and general Revelation

[00:07:28] and um God’s love and care and power um we’re just so impressed upon me by

[00:07:35] this new world of politics that I was introduced to um I

[00:07:41] it was just like a very clear moment where I just knew that’s what I was supposed to do um God has given me the

[00:07:46] the passion for it he threw speech and debate he has equipped me in giving me the skills I’m going to need for it

[00:07:52] um and just as I’ve studied more about it gotten into other issues like a problem with evil or pro-life

[00:07:57] apologetics um the thing that really draws me towards apologetics is everyone is

[00:08:02] hurting everyone has questions about God everyone has a reason that they’re not

[00:08:08] coming to God um I would argue it’s not a good reason because God is goodness himself

[00:08:15] um but everyone has a reason that they will not come to God and apologetics is the way that Christians are able to help

[00:08:22] people identify what that reason is and walk with them as they overcome it that’s fantastic now now um when it

[00:08:29] comes to the debate aspect here of apologetics uh Caitlyn are you going to it is are you still a part of debate is

[00:08:37] that something that stopped with high school is that something that continues in college how does that how does that work yeah I actually started The Debate

[00:08:44] Club at my University I go to Arizona Christian University and I think I’m the

[00:08:49] president of The Debate Club here I also am the Apologetics Mentor for my brother

[00:08:55] Elijah’s current High School I’m a speech and debate Club so I still

[00:09:01] get to teach politics there and it is the highlight of my week whenever I get to teach um there and so yeah I have stayed

[00:09:08] connected and absolutely love it that is fantastic and in college uh what

[00:09:13] do you so you said you’re still involved in debate in college you actually well

[00:09:19] I’m sure people are are curious because you don’t typically hear about this out and about you in in public high schools

[00:09:24] there’s not a lot of discussion over debate competitions or debate teams or this sort of thing

[00:09:30] um give us a snapshot of what it looks like to be in that world uh and I know

[00:09:36] you actually are competing just like in a competition like you know different sports teams except it’s over you know

[00:09:42] who’s going to win a debate um tell us a little bit about that what happens in high school do you do you go

[00:09:47] to other schools and then begin debating and what does a debate competition look like

[00:09:53] yeah I like how you likened it to kind of like playing soccer or going to dance tournaments or different things like

[00:09:59] that that people usually do in high school uh I like to joke that speech and debate is the mental Olympics and so

[00:10:04] it’s um it’s basically that you’re going out of town to tournaments either

[00:10:10] um another town close by we go to several tournaments here in Arizona we also compete a lot in California so it’s

[00:10:16] definitely a sport where you can either compete locally or you can compete nationally there’s a lot of flexibility

[00:10:21] for that um depending on what works best for your family and then once you’re at a

[00:10:27] tournament it’s usually two to three days long um where you compete in the morning

[00:10:33] until the evening you have different rounds going throughout the day so you might have a Lincoln Douglas or team

[00:10:38] policy debate round in the morning and then the next chart is a speech round and then the third round of the day is a

[00:10:43] parliamentary debate round and then another speech round and so it just kind of has that structure to it of where

[00:10:50] um if you choose to do a lot of events you might be go go all the day that is that is my brother right here

[00:10:56] um we call him the Unicorn sometimes because he’s special and very fined that’s what my aunt calls

[00:11:02] um many students who are just trying to get their their feet wet or it’s not

[00:11:08] their passion they prefer sports or different things like that but still compete maybe they do one or two events and so it’s not as intense the day for

[00:11:15] them so speech and debate um really is well suited for families of any kind or

[00:11:21] any commitment level because of those different aspects there’s a lot of flexibility there that’s great

[00:11:26] Elijah um you know for those of who are just listening you can’t see uh Caitlyn

[00:11:32] and Elijah but they’re both dressed very nicely right now and uh

[00:11:37] Elijah has a suit and tie on actually um what’s going on here Elijah why why

[00:11:43] do you uh why’d you dress up so nice other than that this is a fantastic opportunity for you and uh you’re a

[00:11:50] responsible young man what does this have to do with speech and debate well in speech and debate since it’s

[00:11:56] it’s it’s also a sport but it’s also intellectual and so that combines with you’re at a tournament but you’re also

[00:12:02] wearing a suit all day and so since it’s a more professional sport in that sense uh this is what I would call tournament

[00:12:09] attire I’m wearing a dress shirt a tie Blazers and you can’t see but under the

[00:12:15] table I’m wearing slacks and you could have worn shorts and we would never have known I could have worn Sports and

[00:12:22] bunnies no one would have ever known that’s right but yeah so this is what I would wake up at 5am and put on and then

[00:12:30] go to a tournament and compete in oh you’re gonna scare people off saying wake up at 5am jeez man okay so so

[00:12:36] that’s great yeah because they’re far away that’s right good save there Caitlyn that’s not great

[00:12:42] so so Elijah um you know how many how many debates do you participate in you

[00:12:48] know in a school in a school uh year oh

[00:12:53] well that depends on how many tournaments we go to generally each tournament you’ll have six debates and

[00:13:00] then if you do really well you will advance to semi-finals or finals and so

[00:13:06] uh one tournament I had 10 Rounds in just one uh one form of debate and so

[00:13:13] how much how many tournaments per year would you say just a rough idea at least

[00:13:19] 10 generally more than that and how many years how many years have you been doing this Elijah I’m going into my sixth year

[00:13:26] sixth year that is incredible yeah I just can’t imagine

[00:13:32] um the amount of and tell us this because this is really curious I mean this is like an education in and of itself in which

[00:13:38] oh it takes a lot of preparation for the debates and so you’re actually learning about a lot of subjects in the process

[00:13:43] of preparing for these debates so it’s a whole other level of Education almost

[00:13:48] um tell us what what does it look like um for you Elijah when you begin to prepare and I I’m assuming that you know

[00:13:55] ahead of time what you’re going to be debating and the position that you’re going to be debating do you debate the

[00:14:01] side that you um that you actually believe in or do you

[00:14:07] ever have to debate a side that you actually don’t believe in and then I’m asking kind of a two-part question here

[00:14:13] but I’m really curious what kind of preparation how many hours goes into preparing to debate and you know the

[00:14:21] resources that you have you have to remember everything or do you actually are you able to use notes in during the

[00:14:27] debate so I asked you like a whole bunch of questions there all at once I apologize so no no worries go ahead and

[00:14:32] pick up wherever you like on those questions yeah so that’s a great point so before the debate begins you get what

[00:14:41] we call a resolution basically it’s just a topic and a simplified topic would be dogs are better than cats and then

[00:14:47] depending on how seriously you take it you could research for 15 minutes a day or I like to do like an hour a day and

[00:14:55] then you prepare cases you write out briefs which we call it’s just arguments and then you can bring those into the

[00:15:01] room and so you can read from your papers and you do have to debate both

[00:15:07] sides of the issue and something speech innovate has taught me is that issues are much deeper than we would

[00:15:13] automatically think because if you just hear dogs are better than cats you might think yeah that’s true cats think but

[00:15:19] then if you into it and you research it more you can find the truth in both sides that you believe in

[00:15:26] wow that’s great and uh that makes a lot of sense because a lot of times as I understand it you

[00:15:33] know preparing to be able to debate you really got to put yourself in the other person’s shoes and say what are their

[00:15:39] legitimate arguments rather than say straw man arguments right something

[00:15:45] you’ve set up as an argument in your mind that’s not really their position but you’ve manufactured it and you’re

[00:15:51] you’re answering questions that nobody’s asking and so would you say that that

[00:15:56] forcing yourself to have to argue both sides actually prepares you to defend your real position in real life better

[00:16:03] definitely uh for example last year the debate topic I got was about criminal

[00:16:09] justice and when I was going into that year my beliefs were very strong I’m a

[00:16:15] very opinionated person and so I believed one way but as I began researching my opinion started changing

[00:16:22] as I was able to see okay here’s actually the truth of both sides and here’s what I actually believe and I

[00:16:28] think that’s the first benefit of speech and debate it’s critical thinking whether it’s researching your own side

[00:16:34] or researching the other person’s side realizing the truth in both sides it

[00:16:39] really teaches you how to not just make straw man arguments or not just take arguments on face value but actually

[00:16:45] know what you believe and why you believe it that is fantastic Caitlin what are your

[00:16:51] thoughts on that as far as having to argue both sides have you ever felt uncomfortable having to argue a position

[00:16:56] that you totally don’t agree with yeah actually my first year doing debate

[00:17:02] was brutal um because I was used to my experience with debate was listening to Creation

[00:17:08] debates where I agreed with one side and I thought this side has the truth the other side is

[00:17:14] um deceived and does not have the truth but with that kind of understanding

[00:17:20] um and it was very hard for me at first to understand how can I defend both sides

[00:17:26] and believe in both sides and so what I eventually Learned was as I just said

[00:17:33] finding the truth in both sides that I can defend one nice thing about speech innovate is you never have to defend

[00:17:39] something you don’t believe in you’re never forced into um advocating for something you did not

[00:17:46] morally support um you there’s no never

[00:17:54] how about you there’s never a scenario where you would have to do that preparing us to advocate for the truth

[00:17:59] not against it and so um how I came to understand just being able to debate both sides is um maybe for this reason

[00:18:06] or for this value say um this side of the debate would be better like one year I debated bioethics

[00:18:14] and it was scientific advancement versus scientific restraint and I mean we’re so

[00:18:20] heavily towards scientific restraint in moral areas that I almost didn’t even debate that year but my coach encouraged

[00:18:26] me to continue debating to try and find the truth in the side for scientific advancement and by the end of the year I

[00:18:32] could see the truth in both sides and why this is a debate in the first place wow that is so interesting to me because

[00:18:39] I think a big part of the problems we actually have in the the broader culture

[00:18:44] is that people don’t understand where other people are coming from and so what they end up doing is they demonize the

[00:18:50] person and essentially say they’re just pure evil they’re not they have no good

[00:18:56] in them and clearly uh if if they have that position they must just be a bad

[00:19:01] person um whereas when what what you’re doing is you’re going okay they actually do

[00:19:07] have a rationale for it um and maybe it’s wrong but it’s not

[00:19:13] done specifically because you know what this reminds me of it reminds me of um

[00:19:18] Paul where he says do not be taken captive by Hollow and deceptive philosophy and the emphasis there is

[00:19:25] that our fight is not against flesh and blood but against the spiritual powers and the principalities uh which which uh

[00:19:34] really humanizes the person when we understand where they’re coming from and now what we can do is have that gentleness and respect that we might

[00:19:40] lack if we had just said straight up they’re just an evil person and that’s why they believe that uh is that does

[00:19:48] that make sense yeah absolutely and that’s why I use the word deceived too is

[00:19:54] doing speech and debate helps you exactly as you said have sympathy for the person and view them as a cap as a

[00:20:00] captive take in captive or deceived by a philosophy um and if you view someone that way

[00:20:08] that humanizes them you then see them as someone that you can potentially help by

[00:20:14] sharing the gospel with and not as an enemy that you move to um take out with your arguments

[00:20:21] um the arguments are then there to serve and love the person instead of fight them

[00:20:26] boy I am so sold on speech and debate this is so great we’re not we’re not even done yet right so

[00:20:32] um no we’re going to keep going here this is great

[00:20:37] um so uh let’s see so when you’re when you have these

[00:20:44] debates um Caitlyn and you’re at the University and

[00:20:49] uh do you have a say in what the debates are or does the organization that that

[00:20:55] presides over these debates do they determine what is going to be debated each year

[00:21:01] yeah at the college level the students do not get to decide the topic

[00:21:06] are um decided and it’s the same thing in um The Homeschool leagues as well in in

[00:21:13] high school um students don’t per se get to choose sometimes you do get to vote on which

[00:21:19] ones you would like um but in college they are chosen for you and then you debated them again even

[00:21:26] in that context you don’t have to argue for something you don’t believe in so if you get kind of the short end of the

[00:21:32] straw and are on the what you might call the bad side of the resolution or the

[00:21:38] side you don’t want it to be on look for the truth in it I’ve heard of a lot of stories of college Debaters who even one

[00:21:43] time got a pro quote-unquote abortion resolution and then they argue for

[00:21:49] aborting taxes because technically abortion doesn’t have to mean it in the sense we automatically go to of a

[00:21:55] boarding instruments that’s clever yeah that is kind of where the art of debate comes into is

[00:22:01] um reinterpreting the resolution or the topic so that you don’t have to advocate for something you don’t believe in

[00:22:07] um but in practice we do get to choose the resolutions and the topics so running The Debate Club here I could

[00:22:13] choose any topic I want I could put people on those uncomfortable sides of the resolution to give them just a like

[00:22:20] a mental exercise in understanding maybe approach Choice side

[00:22:27] um so that they can argue against it better but generally speaking resolutions don’t

[00:22:33] get into very political or um touchy subjects like that very often

[00:22:38] oh they don’t okay that was something uh else I was curious about you know I can see some people

[00:22:45] maybe some parents being concerned that with the fact that a person is typically

[00:22:52] engaging in both sides or maybe arguing both sides that it would weaken the convictions of of the child the student

[00:23:01] um because you know they’re exposed to a world view or a perspective that is not

[00:23:06] biblical and so uh they go oh no no no I don’t want my child

[00:23:13] um arguing for something and I know you said that they don’t have to do it but somebody might might avoid debate

[00:23:19] altogether because they’re so concerned that uh it’s gonna weaken the convictions of their children and and

[00:23:25] their families you know biblical worldview uh Elijah what would you say to that uh fear

[00:23:33] I would say that like any other fear it can make you stop and say oh wow

[00:23:40] speaking debate that’s so bad but then when you actually look at what speeching today is the organizers of the leagues

[00:23:48] try really hard to make sure that that fear never actually happens and so the

[00:23:53] resolution that I had about criminal justice it was saying should criminal justice use Rehabilitation or

[00:24:01] retribution restitution or deterrence other forms of punishment and so those aren’t like a super moral issues where

[00:24:09] there’s one side is always correct and so I was able to debate from both

[00:24:14] standpoints knowing this is the truth in this side and this is the truth in this side and I was very intentional about

[00:24:20] never debating something I wasn’t definitely I didn’t definitely believe in

[00:24:26] so you were able to identify the areas where you needed you felt you needed to protect your perspective I mean is there

[00:24:33] something to that I’m just curious like from your perspective having done so many debates do you feel that there is

[00:24:41] an actual danger in where you draw a line and you go no I can’t argue this because I feel like I would actually be

[00:24:48] violating my conscience in if I actually argued that perspective Elijah

[00:24:54] I would say that there are instances where that can happen but in those instances I just choose I won’t argue

[00:25:01] for that then and so that’s also something that speech and debate teaches you it teaches you to be strong in your

[00:25:07] opinions that I now know I don’t have to ever advocate for something I don’t believe in the confidence I have in

[00:25:14] speech and debate actually equips me that maybe it means I will lose the debate ground but I’m going to maintain

[00:25:20] my Integrity in the process and I would also add to that that speech

[00:25:26] and debate helps to discover what are those boundaries you’re not willing to cross because you often don’t realize

[00:25:31] what convictions you’re not willing to give up until you are faced with having

[00:25:36] to choose not to argue a certain way and so speech roommate has definitely done that for us

[00:25:42] um it has not only helped us know what we believe why we believe it then communicate it but also stand for it

[00:25:48] when time comes and so speech and debate really equips you to

[00:25:53] stand strong in your faith and your convictions and the organizations understand that speech innovators are

[00:26:01] very moral people that we have a lot of convictions about a lot of different things so they try very hard to not

[00:26:07] bring up resolutions that would put someone in a position where they’d have to compromise their morals and advocate for something that they’ll believe in so

[00:26:14] while that happens it’s only once in a blue room so um along those lines you know would

[00:26:21] you say that the bulk of the people that are engaged in speech and debate are homeschool families or is this something

[00:26:27] that’s uh very prevalent uh outside of the homeschool Community as well and I’m talking specifically in uh like high

[00:26:35] school and so forth is that is that primarily homeschool

[00:26:40] families that are doing that or do Public Schools do a lot of public schools have speech and debate teams high schools yeah it definitely is not a

[00:26:48] homeschool um dominated sport there are other leagues we’re more familiar with homeschool ones because we were

[00:26:54] homeschooled um but it definitely is something that if you were in private school or if you

[00:26:59] were in public school you can find a lead um I think one of the difficulties is that there is a lack at the moment for a

[00:27:07] Christian public and private school league that um would allow these students to come in

[00:27:13] and have an experience like we had where it was overtly Christian you can still be a Christian in the secular League

[00:27:20] um it is just a little bit more difficult to not have you’re not you have to be

[00:27:25] more intentional about bringing in the biblical integration and worldview training um by really studying that a little bit

[00:27:31] extra then you might in a homeschool League where it’s kind of part of what you do already

[00:27:37] um so if anyone is interested in looking for that in a couple of years

[00:27:42] um our speech and debate coach Julie Fritz is actually creating that league and will be hosting a tournament probably next year oh that’s fantastic

[00:27:49] and tell us um tell us your coach’s website it’s Fritz speech.com Fritz it’s is

[00:27:56] spelled f-r-i-t-z right uh so for those of you maybe who

[00:28:03] are just tuning in or just listening in uh we’re talking about speech and debate uh today with Elijah and Caitlin Walker

[00:28:10] and this is a really important topic in in my opinion um because the Bible has

[00:28:16] all kinds of examples of debate and I love it you know in the past apologetics

[00:28:22] and maybe debate got a bad rap because people people said look you’re just causing conflict you’re you’re creating

[00:28:28] arguments your people are getting hostile and I even remember when I was younger sometimes I would debate with

[00:28:34] friends not because I was part of speech and debate but I went to a public high school and I was an outspoken Christian and I naturally got in a lot of uh

[00:28:42] interesting conversation but I could feel my blood my blood pressure Rising during some of the conversations because

[00:28:47] you know if you hold a position and it’s very personal um it it’s it’s meaningful to you and so

[00:28:53] uh it’s easy to get kind of riled up and um one of the things I think that the

[00:28:59] Bible emphasizes sizes is the need to stay calm right and to not take it as a

[00:29:05] personal attack because somebody disagrees with you and this is something our culture is is struggling horribly

[00:29:11] with is that everybody is so you say one thing that somebody disagrees with and

[00:29:16] people just you know throw these massive temper tantrums and go out of control and then they just start calling people

[00:29:22] names and and you lose all ability to have a civil discussion about with people that disagree and so this is such

[00:29:28] a valuable skill to be able to do that I wanted to read a quick verse um for those of you who um you know

[00:29:37] believe in the Bible and Trust the Bible when it comes to its position on issues

[00:29:42] that the Bible actually encourages debate uh this is one of my favorite examples of this this is in Acts chapter

[00:29:48] 18 verses 27 to 28 it says when Apollos resolved to cross over to Ikea the

[00:29:54] brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him on his arrival he was a great help to those who

[00:30:01] by Grace had believed for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public debate proving from the scriptures that Jesus

[00:30:08] is the Christ and I think that when I first read that I thought that was so cool because I was just like oh man that

[00:30:15] guy just stood up and had fun of everybody and debated these people and convinced people uh that Christ was who

[00:30:23] he said he was and and I was like in the middle of that in my public high school and I was like oh man this has been

[00:30:28] going on for a long time this is fantastic so um along those same lines for you guys

[00:30:34] uh has has debating um helped you with the whole emotional

[00:30:40] thing because I know that’s a struggle for a lot of people where they they just start to lose their cool uh how has that

[00:30:48] impacted you Caitlyn it has helped me so much

[00:30:53] um first off it’s giving me the confidence to even start a conversation and not letting my shyness and the the fear

[00:31:00] those emotions run the train um so I have been able to push through fear of starting conversations with

[00:31:07] people about God um I even did that over the summer um I was able to have world view conversations with people who did not

[00:31:13] believe in Christ and I would not have had the confidence to do that if I had not done this if I’d not competed in

[00:31:19] speech in debate I just simply wouldn’t have been able to um but not only is that when actually being

[00:31:25] in conversations I’m able to separate my emotions from the person and their logic

[00:31:32] I now have three different categories that I’m working with my emotions can then take a back seat because I realize

[00:31:38] what’s most important is dealing with the person’s logic so that I can win their heart and so that is really what

[00:31:45] speech innovate teaches you to do really well is to set aside your emotions for the time being if they’re if they’re

[00:31:50] applicable and helpful definitely to bring them in and use them well to show someone empathy and care and love but if

[00:31:57] you are starting to notice that you’re getting a little bit heated knowing that you are arguing in an idea

[00:32:04] to win the person is really what helps you keep those emotions in check

[00:32:11] um and focus on actually the task at hand of winning someone over

[00:32:17] you said something really interesting there you you said um that you’re focused on their logic

[00:32:23] and uh can you break that down for us what do you mean by that when you say

[00:32:28] you’re focused on their logic what is it that you’re looking at

[00:32:33] yeah I’m looking for when I start a conversation with someone what are some assumptions that they have about God or

[00:32:39] about my faith or about even their own faith that is impacting how they view

[00:32:46] God and how they’re interacting with me for example over the summer I started a conversation with someone who was

[00:32:53] um Hindu but he also identified as a Hindu Christian and I was just like what do you mean by that

[00:32:58] um asking him what that meant for him and so he started talking of course about Oneness

[00:33:05] um and eventually he started talking about being Divine and I asked if he

[00:33:10] believed that he was God and he said yes I do you’re God too and now at that moment I could have gotten completely

[00:33:15] offended and said no there’s only one God he’s Jesus Christ but I would have

[00:33:21] probably lost this man if I had done that so I was able to remain calm even though it was uncomfortable and simply

[00:33:28] say no I’m not God Jesus is and from there work more on his object of okay

[00:33:33] why do you think that you’re God what about all of this do you persuades you

[00:33:39] to believe this and from there we were able to start getting to um more about his view of Oneness and

[00:33:46] that he thinks that he was broken off from the Divine and he needs to get back to it I would not have understood that

[00:33:53] unless I had focused on his logic and asked questions and

[00:33:59] um checked my emotions and kind of submitted them to

[00:34:05] um the patients and and the questions that I needed at that moment to actually continue the conversation with him

[00:34:11] that’s great uh so so how would you define the word logic um Elijah what

[00:34:17] what for our listeners uh you know we hear the word tossed around quite a bit but what is the actual definition of the

[00:34:24] word logic I would say logic is reasoning and so you look at a bunch of assumptions a

[00:34:32] bunch of facts and then from those you say well if this is true and this is true therefore this must be true and so

[00:34:42] you take all that information and you process it through reasoning and that action is logic

[00:34:48] would you say that in our culture today you know and I you guys are debating so many different issues so obviously

[00:34:54] you’re well aware of what’s happening in the culture as a whole I think that’s a another huge benefit to speech and

[00:34:59] debate is that you’re constantly uh kind of on The Cutting Edge of what’s

[00:35:05] happening in the culture because those are the the issues that are brought into to discuss in a lot of ways

[00:35:11] um would you say that do you feel that our culture as a whole is suffering from

[00:35:17] a lack of logic or a lack of the ability to reason I definitely would if we just look at

[00:35:25] the world around us today people are taking things on face value they’re saying I know this is true because I

[00:35:30] read it on the comments of YouTube and in fact Carnegie Mellon University says that students lack an important

[00:35:36] component of critical thinking and broader than that people are asking questions of what is a woman and so I

[00:35:43] think our culture just doesn’t know how to think anymore because we’ve abandoned logic and we’ve abandoned reasoning

[00:35:51] Caitlyn what do you have anything to add to that yeah absolutely like I was talking about just the confusion over

[00:35:58] self-evident truths they’re not self-evident to people anymore people um are doubting Truth at the most

[00:36:04] fundamental level well there’s nothing wrong with doubt um per se it’s the disbelief that’s the problem people are

[00:36:11] so rejecting um truth and logic and saying that their

[00:36:16] emotions or how they feel about a certain topic is what is true about it that we’re very greatly lacking

[00:36:24] um actual conversation anymore and so one of the ways that speech and debate really helps you handle that is by being

[00:36:33] the non-emotional person in the room and getting to help work through somebody else’s emotions with them being calm and

[00:36:40] asking questions because if someone else is reactionary you can’t be reactionary because then you’re not going to get in

[00:36:46] anywhere logic has left the building if you let your emotions are on the train

[00:36:51] that’s great that’s great Council uh you know I I feel like logic is the the

[00:36:56] common ground that two people that disagree have um because that’s how you are able to

[00:37:03] work out those differences of opinion and find out why you hold the different views but once we lose logic we lose all

[00:37:11] common ground to even have a discussion and I I almost you know I think it’s spiritual honestly I think that this is

[00:37:17] makes the devil extremely happy when people can no longer even talk to each other uh and you’re in a situation where

[00:37:23] that common ground is completely gone and now all you have left is is anger

[00:37:28] emotions and frequently uh physical violence because people have decided

[00:37:35] we’re no longer even going to talk through the issues or try to understand somebody else which uh most definitely

[00:37:41] than the devil’s won um when when we can no longer um try to try to work these out like the

[00:37:46] Bible teaches us um so so

[00:37:52] um in the real world you know when you go out and about and you’re you’re having

[00:37:57] these conversations like you did Caitlyn like you were talking about um how does this

[00:38:03] how do you see this playing out in your future as far as where where is it a

[00:38:08] career and apologetics going to go and and with your background in debate and speech

[00:38:13] um what do you do you have a vision for the future um as far as how that’s going to fleshed

[00:38:19] out yeah right now I’m studying for my Master’s um I’m hoping to get that by the end of

[00:38:25] three more years in school I’m so very excited um but beyond that I would love to work

[00:38:31] with a Ministry um one of my favorites of sanitaries and another one is Summit Ministries those

[00:38:36] are my two favorites oh those are awesome to be able to do teaching or

[00:38:41] public speaking or writing for one of those Ministries that is wonderful what about you Elijah

[00:38:48] what what do you uh do you have a vision for the future I do so I want to be a businessman I

[00:38:54] want to be an entrepreneur and I know that the skills I’ve learned in speech and debate of being able to think and

[00:39:01] express that is going to help me there but I also have it on my heart to like I

[00:39:06] love the Lord with all my heart and so I want to serve him and so somewhere in

[00:39:11] Ministry where I can get involved in that to promote his kingdom that’s also

[00:39:16] what I have in mind for my future that is fantastic well I love that and

[00:39:22] again um you know we were talking off air a little bit beforehand and you mentioned some organizations that if

[00:39:27] people are listening and they want to get involved uh with speech and debate um you said uh stowa I believe was one

[00:39:33] of the organizations can you tell us a little bit about that yeah so stowa is the national Christian

[00:39:40] home school speech and debate league that my family has been a part of for five years and this is a league that has

[00:39:47] clubs all over the nation and so for whoever is listening if you’re interested in speech and debate you can

[00:39:53] go to stoausa.org and they have a list of all of the clubs where they are and you can

[00:39:59] get resources and information and get plugged in there that’s actually how my family got involved in speech and debate

[00:40:05] we were at a homeschool convention in Arizona and we saw a booth and my mom was like I’m doing this and since that

[00:40:12] day honestly that has been an amazing blessing for me and my family yeah is

[00:40:19] that our family in our just spiritual and personal

[00:40:25] growth and has also really knit our family together as well yes I have

[00:40:31] another question that just popped into my head um for for families that are listening now and are I’m sure there are many

[00:40:37] people that are very excited because uh they’re hearing what you’re saying they’re they’re hearing your vision for

[00:40:42] the future and it’s a powerful testimony um but how much time do you have to dedicate per week I know you said

[00:40:48] there’s flexibility but if a family was like okay look we want to get our feet wet what’s a minimum

[00:40:54] um commitment uh time wise in order for uh uh mom and a dad right because they

[00:41:01] they’ve gotta they’ve got to be driving people around and they’ve got to be doing these sorts of things what would you say is a minimum time commitment to

[00:41:07] be involved in something like this yeah I would say on average clubs meet once a week that could be anywhere from

[00:41:15] maybe like two or three hours maybe a little bit longer um our club used to be a little bit longer than that just

[00:41:21] because there was a scheduled dinner break in there um if you meet during the day it might be a little bit shorter

[00:41:26] um and so just once a week There’s a scheduled Club time that you would attend some clubs are drop off some

[00:41:33] clubs require parents to attend and so it just depends on the club in your area and if you don’t have a club in your

[00:41:39] area you could go onto stowa’s website and they have resources if you would be

[00:41:44] interested in starting one um beyond that it really just depends on how serious you want to take speech and

[00:41:51] debate and how much your child wants to compete or how much you want to require that they put into it

[00:41:57] um one good suggestion is treat it like a normal class like like one of your child’s subjects

[00:42:03] um so if they work on math for an hour have them work on speech and debate for an hour if they can give a five minute and promise to speech and then work on

[00:42:09] an apology 6 speech for 10 minutes and then give it to you um that might take 20 minutes all together

[00:42:15] um and then the rest of the time have them be researching and for debate and then the next day spend an hour they

[00:42:22] call their friend and they actually do a debate so it is really flexible on how much you want your child to do you might

[00:42:28] have them do 50 minutes a day starting out just impromptu speeches it gets big um maybe longer as they show more

[00:42:36] interest um they might get to somewhere like Elijah might spend an hour on debate one day and then practice this speeches for

[00:42:43] two hours so it really just depends okay that’s great great information and

[00:42:49] um again your coach’s website fritzspeech.com f-r-i-t-z speech.com if anybody listening

[00:42:57] um would like to get encouragement or support and you said that your coach is actually starting a new type of speech

[00:43:04] and debate league is that correct that’s correct and that’s specifically uh to connect

[00:43:11] private Christian schools with home schools is that what you you were saying or what were you saying about that her

[00:43:17] vision is um that right now stowa is homeschoolers only league and she was just thinking

[00:43:23] wow it is such an amazing League why why are only homeschoolers allowed in it um

[00:43:28] why is there something for public schoolers and private schoolers to also be a part of and so her vision is to get

[00:43:35] it to be something some something where students could maybe go to their church or other school and be part of a league

[00:43:43] like stowa but that is open to different School types and so she’ll be launching that within the next year so keep an eye

[00:43:50] out for that and also in the meantime you can go to Stella or ncfca those are

[00:43:55] two different homeschooler leagues right now okay great well you guys um

[00:44:01] you’ve uh been very impressive I must say so I just want to thank you so much

[00:44:06] for being on the program and uh it’s been a big blessing having you I think a

[00:44:11] lot of people will be blessed to be able to hear um you know your testimony of how this has impacted your life it’s a big

[00:44:17] blessing and I I’m praying that God continues to bless you guys you you uh obviously are seem to me like you’re

[00:44:24] going to do very well so praise God for that that fact it’s a really it’s really exciting to see what you’re doing and

[00:44:29] where you’re headed so we’ll stay in touch and um we’ll continue to uh maybe I’ll see

[00:44:35] you at the Arizona Homeschool Convention next year and we can we can say hi yes grab a coffee or something or maybe we

[00:44:42] can debate we can we have we’ll start prepping now yeah yeah let’s

[00:44:47] do it Mr Mr Conover versus Elijah

[00:44:52] that’s awesome okay you guys you’ve been a big blessing and uh for those of you listening we have some real exciting

[00:44:59] interviews coming up right around the corner we’ve had a lot of good shows Dr Julie Hayden is going to be with us next

[00:45:06] week and we’re specifically dealing with the homeless crisis in California what does the Bible have to say about that and how do we deal with it how do we

[00:45:12] address it we also have Larry blive coming from apologia uh the ministry he’s an expert on debating Evolution and

[00:45:21] Atheism uh incredible uh testimony that he has we have Dr Jeremy Lyon coming up

[00:45:27] on the Dead Sea Scrolls that’s going to be really interesting and creation and a variety of other really fantastic guests

[00:45:33] around the corner so I hope I’ll see you next week and thanks for being here I

[00:45:39] hope you have a great week God bless you and we’ll see you next time when you need tires or service count on Conover

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[00:47:09] fastlanesailing.com 619-222-0766 hi this is Jason Hall

[00:47:16] president of Team Home Loans a branch of synergy One Lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover

[00:47:22] for the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as well as being an incredible teacher while our

[00:47:28] kids were his students his knowledge and passion have taught us all how important it is to be Defenders of our faith it’s

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