What is Urban Apologetics? – Vocab Malone

[00:00:00] nine-seven 19 and now here’s your host Kevin Conover bring your time

[00:00:06] welcome to educate for life radio I’m your host Kevin Conover my websites educate for life.org and we’re here at

[00:00:13] the day after Christmas just getting into it right away and I had a great Christmas I hope you did I’m wearing my

[00:00:19] Christmas sweater here if you’re watching online and we also broadcasting down in San Diego Southern California

[00:00:25] Cape Rays FM 106.1 in North County and AM 12:10 we’re on youtube and periscope and

[00:00:33] Facebook everywhere else so you can check us out I just had the opportunity last week to interview David wood if you

[00:00:39] don’t know who he is he’s got an incredible testimony and it’s pretty famous he his testimony is

[00:00:45] very unique that he that he filmed online he walks backwards through a

[00:00:50] subway and the whole thing it looks like in one take and so incredible testimony

[00:00:56] and today we have somebody who is who works with David Wood a vocab Malone is

[00:01:02] his name he was born and raised on the south side of Columbus Ohio he holds a master’s degree from Phoenix seminary and his focus is urban apologetics and

[00:01:09] cultural worldview analysis he’s done a ton a number of debates and dialogues with Muslims atheists and Hebrew

[00:01:16] Israelites which is probably a group you haven’t heard of he just recently came out with a book Barack Obama versus the

[00:01:22] black Hebrew Israelites you can check them out at youtube-dot-com forward-slash vocab Malone and vocab I

[00:01:29] wanted to ask you you know your your bio says your focus is on urban apologetics

[00:01:36] and cultural worldview analysis what is urban apologetics versus just kind of

[00:01:41] normal apologetics simply that the cultural context is somewhat different

[00:01:50] than more mainstream apologetics so some of the questions are the same you might

[00:01:55] just answer them with different examples different illustrations different nuance different subtleties and then some of

[00:02:02] the other questions asked in that field are actually different kinds of questions and so sometimes you have to

[00:02:10] repurpose some apologetics that might already be out there and then other time you have to start

[00:02:15] from scratch so it’s really a mythological concept where if you look at missions work they consider the field

[00:02:21] in which they labor and then they take that into consideration they proclaim

[00:02:28] and defend the gospel in that particular area so that’s really all it is it’s when we use urban we really basically

[00:02:35] mean of people not only in the city but those influenced by what the city brings

[00:02:41] and so that’s the whole span of things from hip-hop culture to uh to certain

[00:02:47] questions that are asked and all kinds of all kinds of things and so that’s really what open apologetics is it’s

[00:02:53] been around for a while depending how you define it and I’m just one of many trying to trying to do my thing in fact

[00:03:00] we got a conference coming up here and feed the Phoenix called doctrine for the block it’s an urban apologetics

[00:03:05] conference and then we’re doing another one in March that’s strictly virtual all the classes take place online it’s

[00:03:10] called cyber city so the things start to really pick up because the issues in the urban context are picking up more and

[00:03:16] more wow that’s really interesting so when you say that the issues in the city are picking up more and more what issues

[00:03:23] are you referring to specifically why did the transatlantic slave trade happen

[00:03:28] got to get into the problem of evil and it gets kind of specific to this context

[00:03:33] is what what is God’s view on social justice issues both now and historically

[00:03:41] does the Bible con condone or condemn slavery is the Bible itself ethnocentric

[00:03:48] is Jesus really white like he looks in so many Hollywood movie you go on and on

[00:03:55] and you have even new religions really that are kind of unique to that setting

[00:04:01] such as the Kemet folks who believe that all ideas basically should be traced

[00:04:06] back to ancient Egypt and there’s their reverence sometimes even a worship for aspects of ancient Egypt and they find

[00:04:13] their identity in that some of these guys even think they’re reincarnated Pharaohs and go over the Hebrews the

[00:04:18] lights that I specialize that they think they’re the true children of Israel and to deal with the more simple science the

[00:04:23] Nation of Islam the five percenters and you do have eight years as well and you know they piggyback a

[00:04:30] lot of their arguments from Richard carrier and Richard Dawkins but some of the things are a little bit different as

[00:04:35] well so it’s definitely an area that needs attention but it’s been neglected

[00:04:42] and one reason that’s been off of the radar of a lot of scholars and the other

[00:04:47] reason is the financial opportunities are very limited because a lot of times you’re ministering in context where

[00:04:54] there’s not the big mega church with the big budget to put on the big fancy conference to fly the guy out yeah we do

[00:05:00] things like virtual conferences to try to rectify that that problem of logistics so a lot going on I think 2020

[00:05:07] is going to be a watershed year for this issue I love it you know that yeah I’m a I’m a Christian apologist teacher I

[00:05:14] teach 12th grade apologetics and these issues are coming up in my classroom and so we’ve had to you know we’re

[00:05:21] discussing about things like white privilege reverse racism I had a young kid who’s a Native

[00:05:26] American talking about how he was with his family and a bunch of his relatives

[00:05:32] said you know we’re not we don’t believe in Christianity we don’t believe in the Bible that’s all you know white people

[00:05:39] who have foisted that on us and that’s something that we reject because it’s

[00:05:45] it’s written by white people and this sort of thing so that all fits with what you’re talking about right yes sir

[00:05:52] there’s a lot to it I mean nobody wants to believe a religion if they believe

[00:05:59] that it was given to them even forced onto their populace for nefarious

[00:06:06] reasons such as controlling them and things like that now I think that narrative sometimes is oversimplified

[00:06:12] however that’s the narrative that the really the enemies of the cross push and you have real Bible believing Christians

[00:06:19] who have real questions about those kinds of issues you know and you know of

[00:06:24] course these issues also get existential people want to know really Who am I you

[00:06:29] know and so a lot of these alternative urban religions popping up in the in these alternative urban spiritualities

[00:06:36] and these alternative urban cults they focus a lot of times on giving the respondent

[00:06:41] a new identity and so issues like identity in Christ become very important

[00:06:46] or important for the church to be proactive as well as explaining in greater depth issues relating to certain

[00:06:53] aspects of church history which may be neglected such as the North African church things along those lines so

[00:06:59] there’s a lot there and the folks against us to be honest have a much

[00:07:05] heavier web presence than we do but by God’s grace we’re gonna fix some of that 20/20 I love it that’s great

[00:07:11] you know does uh you know I’ve heard there’s a popular religion that’s spreading in prisons right now it’s the

[00:07:16] worship of Norris gods have you heard about this yeah Odin ISM yeah that is a

[00:07:22] actually on the other side of the spectrum is similar so what those guys say would be something like this hey you

[00:07:30] know these Christian missionaries came and you know depending on what version of the story they tell but the version

[00:07:37] always ends up with they took us away from our ancestral deities they took us away from the gods that are that are

[00:07:43] native to our people why should we embrace some Jewish carpenter and these

[00:07:49] missionaries from some other country we’ve already got our own Pantheon in our own gods well why should we do that

[00:07:55] so let’s not forget about Odin and Thor let’s even have our own eschatology and

[00:08:00] start talking about Ragnarok and all these kinds of things and so a Odin is

[00:08:06] improper doesn’t have to be supremacists and by that I mean European or white supremacists however a lot of the

[00:08:13] permutations is my understanding especially those of the prison variety end up embracing a white identity that

[00:08:22] is a supremacist one as well now they don’t have to but often I guess that I guess they often do I’m actually done a

[00:08:29] few videos on this on my channel but that’s not necessarily an urban apologetics issue I looked more into

[00:08:34] that because I was interested about some of the carrion and the Thai overs and all that related to the Thor movies and

[00:08:42] about what did some of the ancient Norse folks actually believe so there is more and more you see people saying I reject

[00:08:48] Christianity because it’s not what we originally believed or whatever and let’s embrace this other thing yeah

[00:08:55] not that’s of course I hope people understand that’s not even a logical argument whether it’s something is native to a culture has no bearing on a

[00:09:01] truth value the source of something has no bearing on truth value to think otherwise –is what you what you end up

[00:09:08] doing is committing to genetic fallacy which is saying something it’s false simply because of its origin so some

[00:09:14] just says something is not false simply because of its origin something is not true or Horatius simply because of its origin so even if the argument is true

[00:09:22] in any form or sense that doesn’t then therefore follow that we are obligated to follow our ancestral deities as if

[00:09:28] they are better just by default because cultures are not to be deified and part

[00:09:34] of problems if you eliminate an actual objective deity standing over all cultures a transcendent moral creator

[00:09:40] then you can end up essentially deifying culture and then you get these kind of arguments that the onus and the commits

[00:09:47] and and other folks like them begin to make yeah and it does seem like a lot of people are actually falling for that

[00:09:53] genetic fallacy what you’re talking about it actually seems in our culture today that a lot of people are glorifying culture over you know over

[00:10:00] truth itself would you would you say that tends to be the case yeah and people feel less and less

[00:10:09] satisfied with what they consider sort of traditionally available and so a lot

[00:10:16] of times the fall guy and that is whatever Americanized kind of Christianity they might be looking at for better for worse and they still want

[00:10:23] an identity they still want these questions answered and so they end up looking in all the wrong places

[00:10:30] and so there’s mass confusion not just in the urban landscape I mean it’s clear by any measure or stat that you look at

[00:10:38] that America itself is secularizing yeah and uh the influence of what we might

[00:10:44] call the store Christian Church of America certainly is waning and this is actually true although it’s perhaps at a

[00:10:50] different pace or rate or takes different shapes or forms within traditional urban communities as well

[00:10:57] and so all is this happening and again a lot of these areas we look into or

[00:11:02] overlooked and so people sometimes say why do you bother or that belief is silly or all that and really you just

[00:11:09] have to have a heart and a passion for the people they’re being affected and not really care about what it looks like

[00:11:14] or the numbers or how obscure it is if it’s influencing people yeah we need to get in there and have answers according

[00:11:19] to first Peter 3:15 Colossians four five six so that is the state of affairs amen well my guest today is vocab Malone and

[00:11:26] we’re talking about urban apologetics as opposed to what you would call a

[00:11:31] standard apologetics I suppose and he recently came out with a book Barack Obama versus the black Hebrew Israelites

[00:11:37] we’re gonna continue this discussion we’re gonna take a real quick break but we’ll be right back stay with us I hope

[00:11:43] you enjoy the program I think you’re gonna have a lot of fun so we’ll be right back [Music]

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[00:13:52] hey thanks for listening today this is educate for life I’m your host Kevin Conover and my my program online is a

[00:13:59] full school of apologetics it’s an online school apologetics and the whole goal is to raise confident Christians

[00:14:06] what we’re trying to do is I found that as my confidence in Christianity increased it made me more comfortable

[00:14:12] sharing my faith and I found that the reverse is true too right the the less

[00:14:17] confident somebody is in their faith and in what they believe in the Bible the less likely they are to share it with

[00:14:22] those around them and ultimately we want to give the hope of Jesus Christ to the world we want people to be inspired and

[00:14:27] encouraged so I have a full online school of apologetics that’s meant to increase your confidence in the Word of

[00:14:33] God I think you’ll be amazed at the amount of evidence that there is for the truth of God’s Word the Bible stands alone it is truly the inspired inerrant

[00:14:41] Word of God and so check it out educate for life org we’re offering a Christmas special until the end of December and

[00:14:47] you get half off the normal price there that we’re charging so my guest today is

[00:14:53] vocab Malone you can check him out youtube.com forward slash vocab Malone and he’s got an awesome site there with

[00:15:00] all kinds of resources and he’s really focused on urban urban apologetics and

[00:15:05] then vocab your bio says cultural worldview analysis so break that down

[00:15:11] for the average layperson listening what is a cultural worldview analysis mean

[00:15:18] why is that your specialty well that’s more when we get into some things that

[00:15:24] pop up more in the pop culture landscape in every now and then kind of explore

[00:15:30] those maybe the spiritual themes or do a movie review say with an eye towards

[00:15:36] some theological analysis so I don’t do that as much but there are things that

[00:15:42] pop up that we do for example I think last night’s livestream last night’s show I do a show called Street apologist

[00:15:48] live I believe it was a part of the show was a review of the rise of Skywalker so

[00:15:55] I don’t do a whole lot of that but it is something I do as well so I’ll include those kinds of things I’ve done some

[00:16:01] evangelism and apologetics at local Comic Cons and in years past uh but uh I

[00:16:07] do a little bit less of that these days because urban apologetics issues are

[00:16:12] really taking front and center stage more and more ok yeah so I saw now you

[00:16:20] you’re also your expertise is Islam also you’ve had a lot of debates or dialogues

[00:16:25] with Muslims and so forth why did you choose Islam as one of your focuses in

[00:16:32] apologetics well um I had some friends who came to town from California who

[00:16:40] were Middle Eastern Christians most of them and they kind of showed me and

[00:16:46] trained me about how to do evangelism to Muslims and some really unique and innovative ways so it opened my eyes to

[00:16:53] the possibilities and then from there I began getting more involved with aspects

[00:16:59] of the Middle Eastern Christian community here in the United States there’s a number of Arabic churches and

[00:17:05] Middle Eastern congregations between Arizona and California they can kind of act as a launching pad for different

[00:17:13] ministry outreaches such as having evangelistic booths at Arab American

[00:17:18] festivals that happen in city centers across the nation that have heavy middle-eastern populations and you know

[00:17:25] when you deal with all that you know you end up getting to a number of apologetic issues and so I just began having

[00:17:33] discussions with Muslims and I try to be intentional about it and did some debates as well and even to this day

[00:17:40] work a lot with David Wood SAMSHA moon and a number of other folks who do a lot

[00:17:46] of Islamic Center apologetics and some of the stuff we do is not for everybody

[00:17:52] because we sometimes incorporate humor so we use satire and parody as well and

[00:17:58] not everybody likes that and I understand that but we try to be intentional about it not that we don’t

[00:18:03] make any missteps and so we try to communicate truth using comedy as a vehicle as well yeah I saw I saw is that

[00:18:11] so yeah the boom-boom room that’s an example so it’s as if Mohammed has a talk show and

[00:18:17] then he invites guests on fiction and nonfiction all universes and at the end

[00:18:23] if they don’t agree with him usually he pushes you red button and then it goes boom hence it’s called the boom-boom room and then he does it again next

[00:18:30] episode but if you watch every episode we try to communicate a lot of important

[00:18:35] points yeah that might not translate as well in a one-hour lecture yeah and

[00:18:42] again it’s not for everybody we’ve taken criticism I respect that I don’t expect everyone to do what we do or to like it

[00:18:48] yeah I thought it was great I saw one where you had Muhammad talking

[00:18:53] to Darth Vader I think that was on your most recent one yeah so that was great

[00:18:59] that we put out a Santa Clause one but yeah we’ve got Vader they discussed both of their son

[00:19:06] relationships because not a lot of people know that Muhammad adopted a son and then he unadopted him because he

[00:19:13] wanted to marry his adopted sons wife and then people criticized him for it so that he got a revelation from Allah

[00:19:19] basically said there will be no more adoption in Islam where the son takes the last name of the father you know and

[00:19:27] all this is because you know him Hamid basically wanted his adopted sons wife even though he had was yeah and then we

[00:19:34] compare that to Vader’s own issues with his son and it to be honest at the end

[00:19:40] of the episode we find out that Darth Vader is a better father than Mahmoud that’s pretty funny

[00:19:46] that’s great well it’s not for everybody but I just hope they understand that we

[00:19:52] do it with a good heart but that doesn’t mean we’re not vicious or savage as the

[00:19:57] kids say and what I mean by that is sometimes it’s no-holds-barred you know

[00:20:03] yeah well you know we need that because a lot of people have got in our culture I’ve gotten so sensitive that they they

[00:20:09] can’t even hear truth anymore they can’t even hear something if it’s offensive it’s like it’s off the table and that’s

[00:20:16] I I don’t really think that’s a good thing that’s a bad thing because we can’t have that iron sharpening iron we

[00:20:21] can’t have you know truth shutting down a lie so I think that’s awesome that you’re doing that

[00:20:27] well yeah thanks Amina we have a lot of fun doing it but there’s definitely some

[00:20:33] risks involved yeah but we kind of just count the cost in and God does a lot of

[00:20:38] good stuff comes out of it yeah so you know I was gonna ask you you know you’ve you’ve got this interest

[00:20:44] in Islam and then you recently came out with this book about the black Hebrew Israelites is there any crossover of

[00:20:50] what it just immediately came to my mind and maybe this is totally off-base but was the Nation of Islam and the black

[00:20:55] Hebrew Israelites is there any any relation there at all or is there any similarities well you may want to

[00:21:04] perhaps I’ve heard people use the terms a supremacist or nationalistic and apply

[00:21:11] them to both movements so I’ve heard that but other than the fact that they

[00:21:17] are giving people some kind of new false identity based upon a rewritten version

[00:21:23] of history they’re not really related in fact they’re vying for similar

[00:21:29] demographics and so when it comes to the Nation of Islam they’re kind of getting pushed out more and more by the

[00:21:34] ideologies of the Hebrew Israelites and they’re almost becoming the apologetic issue of yesteryear now the

[00:21:41] transformation is not complete but I think that anyone who reads the tea leaves as they say can see in a why

[00:21:47] shrinking and Hebrew Israel ISM growing and so they’re really ultimately competitors when it comes to being in a

[00:21:54] viable alternative to Christianity within the spheres that we operate so

[00:22:00] how did you get interested in black Hebrew Israelites

[00:22:06] well a number of things happened but it all began with a phone call where a

[00:22:12] friend said hey who are these guys in our old neighborhood and he described them I did some online research and kind

[00:22:19] of put it away in the file so I had a sense of who they were based upon a phone call I had with a friend because

[00:22:25] he was he said I know you’re a student of religion uh can you help me out here and so I kind of did some research

[00:22:32] helped him out and put it away and then I saw them in my neighborhood you know I saw him on the corner basically so I

[00:22:37] said oh those guys I saw in the video when I did that research for my yeah

[00:22:43] like I’ll talk to those guys anyways I began talking to them on that corner fateful day and basically I had

[00:22:50] never stopped talking to them ever since then not now how are they becoming more

[00:22:55] and more popular I mean they sound I mean give us a rundown of their basic beliefs how they differ from you know

[00:23:01] typical Bible believe in Christianity well they would say the Bible was

[00:23:06] misinterpreted because it’s been handled by Europeans who are not even the people of the book they would say that the true

[00:23:14] understanding and of scriptures in so many ways has been lost to a Gentile Eurocentric bias as well as by the fake

[00:23:23] Jews who are actually because are converts and perhaps some even believe actually descendants of the ancient

[00:23:30] Amalekites so with all that being said they have some different what they call

[00:23:36] breakdowns of key scriptures a big chunk of these important breakdowns that’s

[00:23:42] their sort of code word for scriptural interpretation a big chunk of these

[00:23:47] breakdowns relate to proving the identity of the biblical Israelites by

[00:23:52] essentially a DNA test via scripture I said Jesus what I mean by that is they’ll go to Deuteronomy 8 they’ll say

[00:24:00] look at the curses that were said to befall Israel if she disobeyed Yahweh now let me ask you this what people

[00:24:06] group is experiencing these curses they’re always lending I’m sorry they’re

[00:24:11] they’re always borrowing they’re never lending they’re the tail of society and not the head there these things are

[00:24:18] happening to their children and look right here verse 68 what’s going on there ah they returned again and to

[00:24:26] Egypt and ships and then they’re sold as slaves that sounds like us because Egypt

[00:24:31] doesn’t really mean Egypt it means basically house of bondage they would say and so they would say this

[00:24:36] essentially is a description of the transatlantic slave trade and so they they get a person hooked in two

[00:24:42] sometimes somewhat obscure Old Testament passages and then they sort of bedazzle

[00:24:48] people by going back and forth and basically giving them a totally new lens by which they look at Scripture if

[00:24:54] they’re usually familiar with strip sure because most people that they suck in are people who have some kind of respect

[00:25:00] for the Bible but perhaps aren’t really that adept which describes really a lot of churchgoers so weak churchgoers are

[00:25:07] their primary targets that they they really go after and those are the people most likely to sort of flip into this

[00:25:12] mindset and once you flip in this mindset you basically start viewing yourself as an Israelite who has special

[00:25:18] salvific privileges in all other people groups depending on how you define on Israelites as in some way second-class

[00:25:25] some of the others like believe non-israelites cannot be saved at all and are only

[00:25:30] destined for eternal servitude those are Hebrews like groups believe that non-israelites so called I’m just saying

[00:25:37] this from their perspective of course I don’t agree with the labels at all not for one minute but those folks can be grafted in but

[00:25:44] they essentially have to come through the mediatorial work and teaching of an actual Hebrew Israelite that’s going on

[00:25:50] well okay my guest today is vocab Malone and he recently came out with a book the

[00:25:55] book is titled Barack Obama versus the black Hebrew Israelites and wool and when we come back I’m gonna ask him

[00:26:01] he’ll answer the question how did he come up with that title what does Barack Obama have to do with the black Hebrew

[00:26:06] Israelites okay so stay with us we’ll be right back

[00:26:13] [Music]

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[00:28:08] [Music]

[00:28:15] hey thanks for being with us today it’s the day after Christmas I hope you had a good Christmas celebrating Jesus Christ

[00:28:20] his birth death and resurrection and you know he’s he’s what it’s all about ultimately there is no other way to

[00:28:27] eternal life except through Jesus Christ and I hope that you had a fantastic time

[00:28:33] celebrating his birth and today we’re talking about you know there’s a lot of

[00:28:38] groups out there in America today that are giving diverging viewpoints they’re saying the Bible’s not true they’re

[00:28:43] saying the Bible promotes slavery they’re saying the Bible teaches this or that or the other and it’s really important to be digging into the Word of

[00:28:50] God and really understanding what it teaches and why we know it’s the truth why we know it’s God’s Word his inherent

[00:28:56] inerrant Word and and how we know it’s trustworthy how we know it hasn’t been tampered with my website educate for

[00:29:02] life org that’s what it’s all about we’ve got all kinds of stuff on there that’s meant to help you video classes that are meant to help you develop a

[00:29:09] systematic comprehensive view of Scripture that is that is full proof

[00:29:14] that you can talk to your friends and relatives and neighbors and really be able to have a conversation with them

[00:29:19] about these issues intelligently and my guest today is vocab Malone he’s an expert on Islam he’s also an expert on

[00:29:26] black Hebrew Israelite have heard of it’s starting to become more and more

[00:29:31] popular here in America and and vocab I wanted to ask you how did you come up

[00:29:36] with a title Barack Barack Obama versus black Hebrew the black Hebrew Israelites yes you can imagine I get that question

[00:29:44] a lot yeah there was a Netflix movie about Barack Obama’s life when he was 21 years old and a student at Columbia in

[00:29:51] New York City and for whatever reason the filmmakers in this Netflix special movie came out think 2016 included a

[00:29:59] scene where young Obama is portrayed as having a brief argument dialog with some

[00:30:06] Hebrews the lights there on 125th Street in Harlem and I saw that with another

[00:30:12] friend who’s in New Yorker analyze where Obama’s apartment was in 81 and then

[00:30:17] where Columbia was and saw that was an very possible for him to go on the section of 125th Street as well as near

[00:30:24] Morningside Park which is all relevant cadets receivers lights were actually in the 80s in fact there’s a video you can

[00:30:30] see of me in New York and Harlem at Morningside Park engaging some members of the group called GM s Hebrews likes

[00:30:36] so anyways when I saw that scene because it was basically Obama arguing with him about some of their points of doctrine

[00:30:42] in this movie I said huh look at Obama being an apologist I sort of a unique

[00:30:48] sense of humor I guess I don’t know so that’s the way I looked at it I said that’s a great book title he’s debated

[00:30:54] leave his lights that’ll get people’s attention and it has some people are super irritated by it but hardly anybody

[00:31:00] forgets it yeah for sure now now is there any connection whatsoever to him in the black Hebrew

[00:31:06] Israelites I mean what his personal yet yeah but not in the way you would think yeah Michelle so this is his wife she

[00:31:15] has a cousin named cappers who yay he is a rabbi but he’s a rabbi in a more

[00:31:21] traditional Orthodox understanding essentially of what some people

[00:31:26] sometimes refer to as black Judaism so he’s very very mainstream and is not

[00:31:33] really to be looked at in the same way as the guys on the corner and in fact uh

[00:31:38] two or three weeks ago when the violence happened in Jersey City where two people influenced by the ideas of humanism went

[00:31:46] into that kosher deli there and shot up a place and killed four people and perhaps one the week before during

[00:31:52] during during that he came out and made a statement like you know that hey this is not what we’re about and a lot of

[00:31:59] members of the sort of traditional Orthodox Jewish community backed him up and said yeah you know rat he this is

[00:32:05] he’s our guy and then I know we know he has nothing to do with this kind of ideology you know he’s not anti-semitic

[00:32:11] in that same way so there’s a certain kind of connection but he’s probably out

[00:32:16] of all the Hebrews lights in America made the most bridges towards the sort

[00:32:22] of more orthodox traditional mainstream you know rabbinic influenced Jewish community and so there’s not really a

[00:32:29] lot of connection if I was going to do apologetics say with Rabbi cappers funny–i you know Michelle’s cousin it

[00:32:35] would look more traditionally like what’s a Michael Brown does okay no because they don’t accept the

[00:32:40] New Testament they don’t accept the Messiahship of Jesus that kind of stuff it’s not the same bigoted kind of

[00:32:48] position as the guys on the corner gotcha okay now what about and maybe this is completely irrelevant but what

[00:32:54] about you know there was a huge controversy with Jeremiah Wright as Barack’s pastor what what is there any

[00:33:03] relationship there is there any any influence there there’s one section and

[00:33:08] dreams of my father’s of the book by President Obama where he speaks of what

[00:33:14] a lot of people have felt which is sort of a symbolic or metaphorical connection

[00:33:21] between those who were slaves at one time and the ancient Israelites and he

[00:33:28] describes this in a brief chapter where he’s talking about experiencing church

[00:33:33] service I believe it’s at Jeremiah Wright’s church at the time and it’s done sort of through the vehicle or

[00:33:40] medium of the old spirituals that are being sung but it’s clear if you read the passage President Obama is not

[00:33:45] saying that he thinks he’s an Israelite or anything like that he is just recognizing sort of the

[00:33:51] affinities and the and the parallels or links between aspects of black Americans

[00:33:57] under oppression and slavery and harsh conditions and also between the ancient Israelites but what happened is Hebrew

[00:34:04] Israelites have taken that that connection and made it literal and that

[00:34:09] was included a whole reworking of history so when it comes to Jeremiah Wright himself he’s doing something very

[00:34:17] different the Hebrews light stood I think view him as a stooge or a pond

[00:34:22] they would they would not see him as somebody who is by and large speaking

[00:34:27] truth there might be a couple places they point to him saying something they would think of as good but their view really mainly criticism for him and

[00:34:35] believe it or not I don’t actually know how this happened but Craig keener co-authored a few books with the man

[00:34:41] named Glenn user asuri and in those they’re fantastic apologetic books

[00:34:47] dealing with urban apologetic issues Craig Keener’s are well respected New Testaments call or in those somehow they got Jeremiah

[00:34:54] Wright to write the foreword now this was a long time ago before some of the controversies have happened since then

[00:35:00] yet I always found that fascinating that he did a foreword do this to some really

[00:35:05] astounding works by Tina keener and is in the co-author the osread there well that’s very interesting connection so

[00:35:12] that is very interesting so when you so black Hebrew Israelites essentially they

[00:35:18] believe that they are the actual descendants of Israel versus that the

[00:35:23] the Jews today they would say these are these are not the real descendants of

[00:35:29] Israel you said they’re there they think they’re the descendants of the Amalekites so how do you go about when you’re when you’re talking to somebody

[00:35:34] like this how do you go about refuting that and why is that important why does that even matter as far as it pertains

[00:35:41] to salvation in Jesus Christ and everything well it’s because they think lineage has salvific ramifications it

[00:35:48] doesn’t matter according to passages like Galatians 3:28 and it’s a proper reading of Romans

[00:35:54] 9 through 11 and really the whole book of Galatians I just mentioned one part there and passages in Colossians and

[00:36:01] Matthew 28:18 to 20 and Jesus where he says if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me in acts 2 where you see all

[00:36:08] Jews from all nations plus proselytes gather there in acts 10 with Cornelius I mean the list goes on and on and on yeah

[00:36:14] I forget acts 9 with Philip in the Ethiopian these are non Israelite people’s so depending on the kind of

[00:36:20] Hebrews lot you’re dealing with it depends what they’re going to say and how they’re going to use those passages but they they misuse revelation 2:9 and

[00:36:28] 39 to to get this evidence and I think

[00:36:34] the that’s my problem honestly this gets into your theology about what you think of the relationship

[00:36:41] between Israel and the church but my problem I don’t view myself as an apologist to defend you know who is the

[00:36:48] true ethnic Jew in the 21st century my job is an apologist for the gospel and

[00:36:53] Hebrews ilysm and most of its forms directly attacks the gospel specifically the Equality at the foot of the cross so

[00:37:00] they’ll use really misused passages and my interest is in not getting

[00:37:06] both doctrines from Miss readings of biblical text so revelation 2:9 I know

[00:37:12] your tribulation and your poverty but you are rich in a slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not but

[00:37:17] are a synagogue of Satan and so they’ll utilize that and say ah so the that in

[00:37:22] revelation 3:9 and other passages prove that the so-called modern pews are not actually the jews and it’s kind of funny

[00:37:29] because hypothetically hebrew sites could say hey people that identify as jews or jews but guess what we’re

[00:37:34] descendants of the jews as well but for whatever reason they think the pie is sort of limited and so they remove one

[00:37:40] piece and put themselves in for whatever reason I guess it’s some kind of form of removing competition I guess but

[00:37:46] interestingly enough a lot of the Hebrews likes teachers learned Hebrew from rabbinic influence you know

[00:37:52] Orthodox acidic type Jews in the first place yeah but they’re trying to shed that background with all that being said

[00:37:58] though you know if you are of any ethnicity you could be a direct

[00:38:04] descendant of Jesus’s he had kids now he did not did but you could be a direct descent of Jesus Christ himself if he had kids and if you are not in Christ

[00:38:12] unified with him under submission to his lordship if you have not recognized him

[00:38:19] for who he is Jesus the Messiah Jesus God second person if you don’t do that

[00:38:25] if you don’t put your faith in his finished work in the cross you were experiencing God’s wrath not his blessing no matter what your lineage is

[00:38:31] and that’s why the Bible says in a variety of ways but I’ll encapsulate it with Paul’s words not all who are of

[00:38:38] Israel are Israel no there’s a circumcision of the heart and a circumcision of the flesh yeah that

[00:38:43] circumcision made with hands if not anything that saves anybody and that’s why Paul said huh circumcision availeth

[00:38:51] nothing yeah and Jesus Christ said Jesus Christ said to the Pharisees God can

[00:38:56] raise up sons out of out of the stones right so he he basically is saying to

[00:39:01] the to the Pharisees you know your cultural heritage your heritage is not gonna save you so okay my guest today is

[00:39:08] vocab Malone and I think this is awesome stuff and vocab Malone you can check him

[00:39:14] out at youtube-dot-com forward-slash vocab Malone he’s got all kinds of videos up there all kinds of amazing

[00:39:19] stuff if you’re really interested in urban apologetics and dealing with the issues that are pertinent to that like you know

[00:39:25] the issue of slavery in the Bible or you know is the Bible does it generate

[00:39:31] racism or does race matter in that regard or all these sorts of issues that

[00:39:36] are now very front and center in our culture today there’s a lot of throwing around these words and and a lot of

[00:39:43] people are wondering well I don’t want to believe in a God that that supports racism or supports slavery or these

[00:39:48] sorts of things and so or you know what is the Bible actually inspired by God or is it been changed by people trying to

[00:39:55] control other people you know that’s a big myth that’s out there also so check out his stuff very useful we have one

[00:40:00] segment left so stay with us we’re going to be right back and we’ll finish up this very educational and interesting

[00:40:06] discussion we’ll drive back [Music]

[00:40:23] Luke Gibson of LG equipment supports educate for life with Kevin Conover Luke

[00:40:28] grew up in the construction industry and now serves LG’s commercial and residential customers throughout

[00:40:33] Southern California whether you need grading paving hauling demolition on-site bulk water service

[00:40:39] water trucks tankers and towers call LG equipment at six one nine nine nine

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[00:40:50] eight zero nine two four hi this is jason hall president of team home loans

[00:40:56] a branch of synergy one lending i just want to take this opportunity to think kevin Conover for the profound in okay

[00:41:04] so we’re on the last segment here this is educated for life I’m your host Kevin Conover and I hope you’ve been enjoying the program and we’re gonna be starting

[00:41:12] off the new year here coming up real soon we’re gonna have Greg Coco from standard reason on the program and he’s

[00:41:19] a fantastic guy he’s been doing this forever and we’ll be talking about his

[00:41:24] new edition of his book tactics is coming out I love the book tactics simply because it’s really evangelism by

[00:41:33] asking questions and I’ve found that to be very useful in my own evangelism and

[00:41:38] apologetics is asking people why they believe what they believe provoking thought and and helping them to think

[00:41:45] through things maybe a little more deeply than they have and that’s just part of the process and it’s also very

[00:41:50] inoffensive and and very non-confrontational to ask questions because you’re trying to get them to talk and give them a chance to air their

[00:41:57] thoughts and their views and then it helps you to see where they’re at and then ultimately to reach out to them my websites educate for life org you can

[00:42:04] check it out it’s got a full video apologetic curriculum on there it’s only $4.99 a month January 1st it goes up to

[00:42:12] $9.99 a month so sign up now and you get you get locked in for that lower rate so

[00:42:18] we’d love to have you check it out there’s a free two week trial too so you can check that out my guest today is vocab Malone you can visit him at

[00:42:25] youtube.com forward slash vocab Malone and vocab is his he was used to do a

[00:42:32] freestyle Christian wrapping and and I read up on your your bio vocab

[00:42:38] that you used to actually do this on campuses to engage people get them to

[00:42:43] stop and listen and then ultimately you know share the gospel with them was that

[00:42:50] effective doing that on college campuses yeah we would call it freestyle

[00:42:55] witnessing and you know I had a team of MCS you know Christian rappers and we’d

[00:43:01] go down the middle Avenue and we had some really good discussions now you had

[00:43:06] to be pretty bold to be able to do that to be able to go out there and put

[00:43:11] yourself out there like that that’s pretty awesome yeah you know it worked out good hold on

[00:43:17] I need a I’m listening to you but I need to make this dog be quiet and no problem

[00:43:26] this is like this is like reality radio right here instead of reality TV not

[00:43:33] reality radio all right we’re back to normal back to normal what kind what kind of dog you have I got a part pit in

[00:43:41] a part boxer okay you can bring them out there to protect you in case anything

[00:43:47] gets hostile yeah Lord is my shepherd yeah there you

[00:43:53] go that’s right that’s right we trust a man or not German Shepherd that’s great

[00:43:58] okay so so my guess here a vocab came

[00:44:04] out with the book Barack Obama versus the black Hebrew Israelites that’s what we’ve been talking about we’ve been talking about urban apologetics and

[00:44:10] those sorts of issues so when you when you’re going to talk to somebody about this sort of thing

[00:44:16] and you want to you want to you know

[00:44:21] refute what they’re saying what are some tips that you would give to somebody who’s starting off in this they’re interested in urban apologetics they’re

[00:44:28] interested in the issues that you’ve brought up what are some of the steps they can take in order to begin to be able to intelligently refute some of the

[00:44:36] ideas that are coming their direction the Hebrews are like part of their

[00:44:43] problem of all varieties whether they’re kind and gentle or whether they’re not

[00:44:50] so kind and gentle whatever their demeanor they’re there whether big

[00:44:55] problems they have is simply a lack of proper prior prioritization and so the

[00:45:02] reason why I preface my answer is that ways to say this focus on the gospel you

[00:45:10] want to talk about who is God who and what is the gospel and so they’re going

[00:45:16] to try to get you off of all these other things and next thing you know you’re talking about DNA studies from

[00:45:23] geological academic journals and you’re discussing American politics and the

[00:45:30] Middle East and all this other stuff it’s not going to save anybody

[00:45:35] now the deeper you go into it I do think we need to chip away at some of these outlying issues as well but if this is

[00:45:43] your first time and you’re engaging you don’t need to answer everything you need to realize what is it that is the most

[00:45:50] important thing in a first Corinthians 15 Paul tells us the most important

[00:45:56] thing is what he left them with and what he still reminds them of and what he was handed down

[00:46:02] which is the gospel and then he describes it according to the scriptures and that’s really what needs to be

[00:46:08] prioritized because what happens is you’ll see that most of these guys have law elements built into their cell

[00:46:16] physics structure meaning in some way the law is important for keeping gaining or maintaining salvation so there’s a

[00:46:23] heavy moralism the negative aspects of Pharisee ISM are in there you know those

[00:46:30] kinds of things are all popping off quasi legalism you have all that happening and then you have a

[00:46:36] misunderstanding of who’s at the center of the gospel the center of the gospel is not people or Israel as soon as the

[00:46:42] Gospels Christ himself and these guys most of them do not believe that Jesus Christ is God unequivocally they don’t

[00:46:50] believe the goddess triune isms nature all these kinds of problems so I advise

[00:46:56] people don’t get into none and and never-ending arguments about whose father is who or the exact skin tone of

[00:47:03] Jesus you know was a dark all-over dark brown excetera it’s a temptation for people and to be

[00:47:10] honest if people have hate or anger in their heart towards these guys when they

[00:47:15] see them Hebrews like they should just stay away because these a lot of these

[00:47:21] guys know how to push your buttons and the fruit of spirit is is vital and

[00:47:26] essential and if you lose your temper it’s it’s not a good thing and I’ve seen

[00:47:31] a lot of Christians lose their temper with these guys because they’re not used to being talked to the way now I’m more

[00:47:38] speaking about these street situations I got your job usually is not going to be as bad you know someone in your family

[00:47:43] is usually not as bad but on these street situations that’s a common thing I’ll just put it this way dealing with

[00:47:49] Hebrews life is not like dealing with Mormons Mormons want to rake your yard

[00:47:55] and take out your trash that’s eateries like to want to throw you in the trash Theologica I mean we want to rake you

[00:48:02] they want to they want to prove you your you’re believing a false doctrine and they have the truth and they’re going to

[00:48:07] put it on video and the video could be called white pastor gets dunked on by Hebrew Israelite man of God you know oh

[00:48:13] that’s pretty funny so it’s not for the faint of heart it is not for the faint of heart but

[00:48:18] again if you realize you have some animus in your heart towards some of these groups that are involved with this

[00:48:24] it’d be better to stay away because I see a lot of Christians get involved sometimes and anger and rage get to

[00:48:30] match with anger and rage and that doesn’t really help anybody yeah yes you got it you got to know what the context

[00:48:35] is it’s highly highly contextual hmm amen well hey we’re we’re just about out

[00:48:42] of time here so vocab I just want to thank you so much for being on the program with us I appreciate it very

[00:48:48] much and sorry about my dog and sorry I was a few minutes late but even a great host hey no problem we’re all we’re all

[00:48:55] given the grace of God right so that’s awesome praise God hey if you want to check out his stuff youtube.com forward

[00:49:01] slash vocab Malone and this is an awesome ministry and it’s not something that a lot of people are doing so if you

[00:49:07] want to support him I’m sure he would love the support he really is a missionary to the urban scene and so if

[00:49:15] you can find a way to support him financially support him in prayer that’d be a big blessing check out his book

[00:49:21] that’s a blessing for him too his book Barack Obama versus the black Hebrew Israelites something that definitely in

[00:49:27] 2020 these are the issues that are going to be coming up a lot of discussion about race racism reverse racism white

[00:49:33] privilege and and all the discussions that you’ve been hearing in the popular culture today that as Christians we need

[00:49:40] to be able to respond to we need to continue to show ourselves a workman who

[00:49:46] does not need to be ashamed as we study the the gospel and we study the Word of God and then beginning to apply it to

[00:49:52] situations to each person’s different situation where they’re coming from in their background so take the time to

[00:49:57] check him out my websites educate for life org all kinds of resources on there for you and I look forward to being with

[00:50:03] you next week in the meantime I hope you have a fantastic upcoming Saturday here I’m going ice skating with my family and

[00:50:09] I hope you have a great new year two new years two and hope that that 2020 ends

[00:50:14] up being a fantastic year for you god bless you and I look forward to being with you next time bye bye did you miss part of today’s program

[00:50:21] don’t worry we’re con mitad to helping you get the info you need okay that was dumb but for real

[00:50:27] visit educate for life dot for podcast and video recordings of the show and to sign up for the school of

[00:50:33] unshakeable faith leave us your comments compliments questions or concerns at 800

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