Change of Affection – Becket Cook

[00:00:01] hey welcome to educate for life i’m your host kevin conover um if you’ve been listening for any length of time you probably have my

[00:00:06] website memorized it’s educate4life.org all kinds of stuff on the website dealing with issues about defending your

[00:00:13] faith in the bible being able to share uh comfortably your love for god and your love for the truth

[00:00:18] of the bible we’ve got all kinds of things on there like creation and evolution we deal with cultural issues

[00:00:24] we deal with world religions just all the questions that pop up especially as we’re heading up here

[00:00:30] towards thanksgiving and the holidays you’re around family members and and frequently questions will pop

[00:00:35] up lots of great answers on there check it out educate4life.org i’m broadcasting from southern california

[00:00:41] i’m broadcasting for my home right now but typically we’re out of the k praise studios k praise 12 10 a.m

[00:00:48] down here in southern california and my guest today is up in l.a and his name is beckett

[00:00:54] cook he’s the author of change of affection a gay man’s incredible story of redemption

[00:01:00] and beckett i just want to say thanks a lot for coming on the program today thank you for having me kevin glad to be abs

[00:01:06] absolutely yeah i’m really excited about the interview and and just a very relevant subject

[00:01:11] it’s awesome to hear the testimony of somebody who came from such a totally different direction where you were going

[00:01:16] and then now i mean you did a total 180. it’s incredible um and i wanted to start out

[00:01:23] for those little bit of background about i mean you really were a hollywood

[00:01:29] insider you were hanging out with uh movie stars and um you were really you were having a you were having

[00:01:36] a good time um so it’s not like you were down in despair necessarily

[00:01:41] tell us a little bit about your background and how you ended up in hollywood and so forth yeah well the good times run out after a

[00:01:46] while they they diminished it after a while but um yeah so i grew up in dallas texas and i

[00:01:54] moved to la after college basically i lived lived in tokyo for a year then moved to la and

[00:02:01] um you know i knew from a very early age that i had same sex attraction i explored that

[00:02:08] in high school with my best friend who turned out to be gay then i explored it again in college with

[00:02:13] a friend who was gay uh we he came out to me in college i came up to him

[00:02:19] it was kind of like this thing that kept happening and um so the more in high school in

[00:02:26] college i didn’t think of it as an identity i thought of it just as kind of like a

[00:02:32] passing sort of phase and like it would you know i would eventually just grow out of it but i uh and i

[00:02:38] wasn’t out to anyone i mean i was out to like very few people in in high school and college and um just like

[00:02:45] like three people but it wasn’t until after college that i

[00:02:51] um i met my first boyfriend and that was a huge game changer and

[00:02:57] that’s when we fell in love and that’s when um you know the floodgates opened and i

[00:03:04] you know came out to my family i came out to my friends and um and that’s when it was you know i i

[00:03:10] really identified as as a gay man like that’s when the

[00:03:15] identity became completely cemented and

[00:03:21] and um so when i moved to l.a of course you know my group of friends were they were all from you know the

[00:03:28] east coast and from from brown university and princeton and uh they were all like super smart and funny and and

[00:03:36] super uh you know accepting and you know some some people in the group

[00:03:41] were gay some were not and most were not but um we were really close

[00:03:46] friends with you know just all these and all of my friends ended up becoming you know they’re all in the business and

[00:03:55] uh writers producers actors directors and they all ended up becoming very extremely successful in their

[00:04:02] fields um some like one of my best friends became she’s marishka hargitay like she became

[00:04:08] like a you know a tv star on law and order special victims unit and she has

[00:04:14] she got a star on the hollywood walk of fame and like minnie driver who was a really close friend of mine

[00:04:21] during goodwill hunting when she was doing that oh wow that’s huge she and i were like she was

[00:04:26] we were all really close in this group and like we we went to mexico to cabo san lucas together and

[00:04:33] um and i was just friends with you know living in l.a and living and having this group of

[00:04:39] friends was like i was always invited to

[00:04:44] everything i mean every party every movie premiere the golden globes the oscars the enemies

[00:04:50] like it was just like a constant thing where ever almost every night i would go to a different

[00:04:57] you know hollywood party and you know i wouldn’t i met everyone literally met everyone i mean there’s

[00:05:03] and hung out with everyone and was became friends with a lot of actors and actresses and hung out at

[00:05:09] drew barrymore’s house and a lot and went swimming in her you know her pool the only diving board

[00:05:14] left in in los angeles um and um you know i it just was like yeah and

[00:05:21] like right you know one things always kind of happen like this where one night i a friend calls me and

[00:05:28] is like hey you want to go to this party up in benedict canyon in beverly hills

[00:05:33] i’m like sure and it’s prince’s house you know and then like prince comes and

[00:05:39] it’s this gigantic crazy mansion that he was renting and uh up in the hills and um

[00:05:47] and i walk in and and you know i look and i when i walked in i was like i wonder if he’s going to

[00:05:52] perform tonight in his backyard and i look in the backyard which is gigantic and there’s a stage set up with

[00:05:58] the prince symbol and all the instruments i’m like oh my gosh so he performed like for three hours in

[00:06:03] his backyard and it was just like 50 people there you know and it was like but those kinds of things

[00:06:10] were just constantly happening in my life and like my friends um

[00:06:16] you know i traveled around the world and and did a lot of stuff uh work wise i became a production designer

[00:06:23] um for a lot of people for a lot of people that’s like i mean we’re talking i’ve made it this

[00:06:29] is it this is a dream come true this is the end all and be all of life right i mean uh that’s what a lot of young

[00:06:35] people really dream about yeah and like my job was as a production designer in the fashion world like

[00:06:40] i worked with everyone i worked with you know katy perry several times i worked with paris hilton at her house like i

[00:06:47] was at her house like at least three or four times and plus i was kind of friendly with her i went to her

[00:06:53] engagement party like years ago when she was engaged to somebody else but um

[00:06:58] and so like i was there and i worked with you know jessica chastain and

[00:07:05] uh every uh what’s her name cara delevingne all these kind of actresses and models and and uh oprah and

[00:07:13] uh just all those everyone and so i i was very much not only in my personal

[00:07:19] life was i kind of involved in hollywood and all the party circuit and all that but also

[00:07:24] in my professional life it was very much a part of that so it was kind of all around me and

[00:07:31] to be honest i mean it was really fun you know for a long long time i i enjoyed it and i just thought okay

[00:07:38] this is what life is all about because i’m gay and i i knew that god was never an option for me

[00:07:43] because i was gay so i’m like i’m gay god’s not an option i therefore he

[00:07:48] doesn’t exist and the whole point of life is to have these kind of extraordinary

[00:07:57] experiences and to know you know get to to know myself to kind of go into my inner life and

[00:08:03] and to find true love you know which i had like many many boyfriends over the years that i’ll kind

[00:08:11] of had to say it was the same situation every time two years it was like the two-year shelf life of the

[00:08:16] boyfriend um but you know after doing that for

[00:08:23] uh i moved late in 93 so 2003 after like 15 years of that or whatever

[00:08:30] i just you start to kind of it starts to wear out you know the the excitement wears off

[00:08:37] yeah and that’s what started happening with me and and i was um as i put say in my book i was in paris

[00:08:44] at paris fashion week and i used to go to fashion weeks to new york and paris a lot because i was in the you know i had

[00:08:50] a ton of friends a ton of friends in the fashion world um business and so

[00:08:55] that year it was 2009 march of 2009 and that’s kind of like the big turning

[00:09:01] point for me was i was i was at fashion week went to a bunch of the shows

[00:09:06] went to a bunch of the parties they have after parties after the shows and and i was at this one after party and

[00:09:12] kanye was there and like everyone you know in the fashion world was at this party and um

[00:09:18] everyone was dancing and drinking and drinking champagne and like you know it’s like it’s kind of like

[00:09:25] what else can you what more can you have like what else more can you achieve or

[00:09:31] and it was just like everyone was beautiful and all this stuff and um

[00:09:37] but i just felt this like overwhelming emptiness at this party and i just was like whoa and i just felt like i can’t

[00:09:45] go on like this anymore i can’t just keep going to parties and keep socializing and going to dinners at

[00:09:51] ariana huffington’s house and i mean the huffington post like like and and you know having dinner with

[00:09:57] tom hanks and barrel street after the oscars like like that’s all fun kind of but i that’s

[00:10:04] not going to sustain me anymore and so i was i was really in a panic

[00:10:10] about it because i i knew again i knew that god was not an option for me so

[00:10:15] i just so did you did you ever think about spiritual issues all through this what you’re going through with these

[00:10:21] things ever rise to the surface uh barely i mean not really because my

[00:10:27] friends it was kind of like we never once spoke about god and among my friends we it was just

[00:10:33] assumed we all just knew we we all it was assumed that god did not exist

[00:10:38] and to even bring up god was like are you kidding me like obviously he

[00:10:44] doesn’t exist so why are we even talking about it so so i really

[00:10:50] at that point by 2009 i was pretty much an i was an atheist i mean i

[00:10:55] was i just thought the bible the christian story

[00:11:01] was an ancient myth just like any other ancient myth i really believed that by the time by

[00:11:07] the time 2009 rolled around and so i just felt like what am i going to do with my life because i can’t

[00:11:14] keep just going to parties and i need to know the meaning of life i always

[00:11:19] wanted to know the meaning of life but i always i kind of i guess i believed that the meaning of

[00:11:25] life was unattainable like to know what it was i i really thought that it was there was

[00:11:31] no way to really know that um so i

[00:11:38] i just kind of like was in a panic went back to my hotel that night in paris and was up all night kind of freaking out

[00:11:43] about my life and what to do in the future and then i got back to la

[00:11:49] uh shortly like a few days later i flew back to la and got busy with work and

[00:11:56] and then six months later everything changed yeah yeah everything yeah

[00:12:03] it’s incredible that the how quickly the change took place in your life you you wrote something that i thought was really interesting or um or

[00:12:10] you’re quoted as saying it was not like i hadn’t thought about the meaning of life i had read so many russian novels and

[00:12:15] gone to so many plays in new york and london by serious playwrights these guys are so smart they will give me some answer to

[00:12:21] the meaning of life every time i went to one of these plays i would get so close to truth and then it would evaporate

[00:12:27] i left the theater every time frustrated and i did that for years can you talk a little bit about that

[00:12:33] that’s that’s really interesting that it evaporated

[00:12:38] yeah so i mean i would go every i was going to new york all the time and

[00:12:44] to london and um and every time i was in new york especially new york i would see a show almo like a broadway

[00:12:51] show or off-broadway almost every night while i was there like a couple weeks um and i it was like you know these were

[00:12:59] major playwrights like eugene o’neill and tom stoppard and uh tony kushner and um

[00:13:06] harold penter like these brilliant playwrights who especially angels in america with tony

[00:13:12] kushner wrote that play and if you watch that play it’s a six hour play i saw half the first half in london in the

[00:13:19] second half on broadway um but if you watch that play that’s kind of the definition of

[00:13:25] evaporation like if you watch that play it seems like

[00:13:31] there’s so much sort of kind of spiritual understanding of all of

[00:13:37] everything and there’s so much dialogue and so much um depth to it but by the end you’re just

[00:13:45] kind of like okay well what does all that mean yes it did you didn’t give me any you

[00:13:51] gave me some sort of truth about human experience but there’s no ultimate truth to your play

[00:13:57] yeah and and that’s what i was kind of seeking when i would go to these plays and i would always leave just frustrated

[00:14:02] because no one obviously none of these playwrights had ultimate answers they just had

[00:14:09] kind of like they had humanist answers you know and so that was really frustrating

[00:14:14] yeah they had depth in their thinking but um ultimately no solutions to the issues

[00:14:21] um and then you you um you talk about in your book also how you were at this coffee shop and you end up

[00:14:28] um seeing a bible for the first time and uh you know you engage in conversation

[00:14:34] uh pushed by your friend to engage in conversation with them about it um something interesting about

[00:14:39] the conversation that i thought was interesting is that you ask them how does your religion or how does your

[00:14:46] church feel about about um homosexuality and they didn’t pull any punches

[00:14:51] they didn’t hem and haul about it they just said oh it’s a sin and you know a lot of people wouldn’t

[00:14:57] have the courage to say that they wouldn’t just be like you know they try to come up with a good excuse or something

[00:15:02] but they just set it straight out yeah and i don’t even know if today in this

[00:15:07] class you know in 2020 if someone if they would be that odd if they would have been that honest now yeah because

[00:15:13] it’s like back in 2009 it was easy i think it was a little easier to say something like that in public

[00:15:19] yeah um but yeah so i you know they said they were evangelical

[00:15:26] christians and that they went to this church in hollywood called reality l.a on sunset boulevard and

[00:15:31] and i was you know i said well i asked him a bunch of questions about about their faith and about

[00:15:37] everything and um because i was curious like i when i saw these young people with

[00:15:44] bibles it i it peaked my curiosity because of that night in paris six months before i

[00:15:50] was kind of like okay maybe this is the answer i don’t know like there’s a slim

[00:15:55] chance it could be and so let me just see what they they say about about

[00:16:01] reality yeah yeah about their turrets called reality l.a and so uh when they told me that

[00:16:09] homosexuality was a sin i i wasn’t that surprised but i was

[00:16:15] surprised at my reaction because i a year before that or two years ten

[00:16:21] years i would have just been like you guys are crazy you need you need therapy but because

[00:16:27] again because of that night in paris i was open to like i was open to the idea of okay what if god

[00:16:33] exists what if what if homosexuality is a sin and what if i built my entire life on

[00:16:39] this false foundation and i don’t know it and so they they invited me to their

[00:16:46] church the following sunday and i said well let me just i’ll give me the address and i’ll

[00:16:51] think about it so i had a whole week to think think about it and it was it was pretty a risky endeavor

[00:16:59] because if just even if friends of mine found out that i was

[00:17:05] going to an evangelical church christian church it’s like her i would be i would be a

[00:17:11] heretic like i would be banished from the gay community and and uh and burned at the stake and so

[00:17:19] it was weird it was a little scary to go because i thought well if i go and nothing happens and people find out

[00:17:26] that i went like it’s gonna be humiliating and yeah they’re gonna think i’m really strange and

[00:17:33] why am i looking you know at evangelical christianity and so but the following sunday i woke up and i

[00:17:39] was just like i think i’m just going to do this and i went to

[00:17:45] i this this church it’s in a public high school auditorium in l.a and i uh i walked in

[00:17:52] and um heard the christian worship music and i i immediately cringed because i

[00:17:58] was like oh my gosh i forgot christian music existed but then i realized it was actually good like it

[00:18:03] was very nice actually really beautiful and then i sat down near the front and

[00:18:12] the pastor i sat by myself and um i don’t know where the people were who invited me but

[00:18:17] the pastor comes out and he starts preaching on romans chapter seven and he’s just preaching

[00:18:24] the gospel basically for an hour i mean just like he’s just like a tim chatting is his

[00:18:29] name and he’s he’s an incredible uh preacher he has such an anointing and

[00:18:34] he was just preaching the gospel and it was like it was the first time in my life that i had

[00:18:40] really heard the gospel and understood it like i knew as a kid like i knew what the

[00:18:46] gospel was like tech in my head and like technically i knew what what it was but it didn’t really hit me

[00:18:53] until that day yeah what it really was so as he was preaching just my everything in my mind my heart

[00:19:01] was everything he was saying was resonating as truth and and i didn’t know why it was it was such

[00:19:07] a freaky experience and and um and so after the sermon

[00:19:13] he leaves the stage then this guy on the side of the auditorium prays for me i i walk over there which

[00:19:20] was another risky thing to do i walk over and i’m like hey i don’t know what i believe but i’m here

[00:19:26] and he prays for me and it was seemed really powerful and really loving

[00:19:31] and i was kind of like why does this random straight dude love me so much because it felt so loving and kind but i walk back to my

[00:19:39] seat i sit down everyone else is standing and worshiping for the next 25 minutes

[00:19:44] because there’s like a long worship after the sermon and um so everyone’s singing i’m sitting down

[00:19:51] and seconds later suddenly the holy spirit just is like and completely

[00:19:59] overwhelms me and floods my mind my spirit my soul and in that moment god was just

[00:20:06] god revealed himself to me and god was like i’m god jesus is my son heaven’s real hell is real the bible’s

[00:20:12] true welcome to my kingdom wow and i just like started weeping and bawling and balling like

[00:20:18] i cried harder than i’d ever cried in my whole life yeah it was the most intense cry um because i

[00:20:24] was just born again so like it was like an infant cry and and um

[00:20:31] and then after i collected i mean i cried for 25 minutes just i was he i was doubled over like yeah

[00:20:37] and people around me were worried about me they were gonna call the medics because like they were like what’s going on with those guys

[00:20:43] um and then i got home and this is really kind of what sealed

[00:20:48] the whole deal is i got home got in bed to take a nap and then

[00:20:55] it happened again it was like moses when he’s in the cleft of the rock and god pacifier with his glory i was just in my bed and i

[00:21:02] mean just my mind was just like i don’t even know what was going on but then suddenly god was like

[00:21:08] like he’s like let me show you some more of my glory and i just started immediately bawling again i felt

[00:21:15] his presence so powerfully it was like a road to damascus kind of presence

[00:21:20] yeah and i just jumped out of my bed and i was crying and i in my the middle of my bedroom i was

[00:21:26] like god you have my whole life it’s yours i’m done and that was september 20th 2009 at

[00:21:33] 2 30 p.m and and i knew in that moment i knew

[00:21:42] to the core of my being i knew that homosexual behavior was sinful i knew that it was no longer part of my

[00:21:48] future i knew that dating guys was no longer a part of my future but i didn’t care because i just met jesus and i was like

[00:21:55] good riddance to that old life like i’m gonna go with this guy because he’s way better and um so that

[00:22:02] was like super clear i mean it had always been clear to me just growing up it’s there’s not i mean i

[00:22:09] just talked about this in this thing i wrote an article i wrote but it’s just it’s just growing up it was

[00:22:14] like obvious to me i knew i couldn’t be a christian because i i it was clear to me what the bible

[00:22:21] had to say about there was no mystery to it like i just it was just utterly clear

[00:22:27] and um so but that day when i got saved it was just like god

[00:22:33] made it extra clear and it was like okay this is this is no longer my my life and i

[00:22:41] and uh i’ve been single and celibate since that day and i’m happy to be single and celibate

[00:22:47] just because and that’s an amazing testimony because not a lot of people have lived the life you’ve lived then they can come from the

[00:22:53] angle of hey man you know i’ve experienced all of this and i’m telling you right now

[00:22:59] there’s nothing in comparison to knowing jesus christ and i guess that’s kind of my question

[00:23:04] for you too is because you know i know uh christian kids who have um homosexual feelings and uh you know you

[00:23:12] speak you’ve spoken at universities in different places and do you ever have um young people come up to you and say yeah i have these

[00:23:18] homosexual feelings um what do i do about this how do i deal with this um

[00:23:23] or parents even who who might be having a young son or daughter who’s having these

[00:23:28] homosexual feelings and they’re like we’re at a loss you know we love our child we we do but we’re christians and we don’t know

[00:23:35] how do you even deal with this kind of a situation in california you know it’s illegal to

[00:23:40] um actually counsel a child through those homosexual feelings um so what do you say to those young

[00:23:47] adults or those parents that ask you those sorts of questions yeah i mean i i have a section in my book on on what

[00:23:54] not what to do and what not to do as a parent um and as a as a kid who comes out to a

[00:24:00] parent um but yeah like you said it’s illegal in california for counseling for counselors

[00:24:07] but that’s where the parents have to come in they have to come in and be almost be the counselors to their kid

[00:24:13] and and just lovingly walk them like be with them and just be see here

[00:24:20] the thing is i talk about this in the book when you when you grow up gay

[00:24:26] and you it’s like this private secret it’s it’s a secret your whole life you have many many years to

[00:24:34] to uh to come to terms with it and so when you when you come out to your

[00:24:40] parents a lot of times the parents are just like in shock and taken aback and so

[00:24:46] because you’ve had all this time to process it but your parents haven’t so you have to give your parents time to

[00:24:52] grieve and to mourn and to kind of like understand it i mean

[00:24:57] you can’t because i a lot of what i see it happen a lot is when people come out and i this is you

[00:25:04] know my experience too it’s like you kind of expect your parents to just be on board immediately

[00:25:09] like if you’re not on board with this like you know you’re a terrible parent but it’s like everyone needs to have

[00:25:15] grace with each other and have patience with each other and and um but i think the best thing a

[00:25:22] parent can do i mean my parents were so lovely and i mean i wasn’t in high school like they

[00:25:28] didn’t find out until after college so it was kind of a different story but they were just

[00:25:33] so loving to me and they believed it was that my parents were christians um they believed it was a sin

[00:25:39] and um but they were just super loving to me and um and i think

[00:25:45] the key for parents is to keep the channels of communication open

[00:25:51] with your child and just say hey like i know you’re struggling with this and you’re you know

[00:25:56] this is happening in your life like come talk to me anytime you’re you know

[00:26:01] you want to if the doors open like i’m not gonna judge you i i wanna listen to you i wanna you know

[00:26:08] um you know and obviously have your conviction settled about the issue like yes this

[00:26:14] this is you know i knew my parents believed it was the sin like there was no like they were clear

[00:26:19] about it um but so as a parent have your conviction settled on it but love your child

[00:26:27] through that process and and um what i would say to to young people i

[00:26:34] mean it’s really really hard you know it’s hard for people in high school

[00:26:39] to who are going through this same-sex attraction and who are maybe coming out as gay or whatever

[00:26:46] it’s it’s really difficult to uh to deny yourself and take up your

[00:26:53] cross and follow jesus at that young age it’s really hard because like i had to kind of go through

[00:27:00] the whole thing like i had to live i had to be the prodigal son and live the life for 20 years

[00:27:05] you know and and then finally come back to you know or come to come to god and and um

[00:27:12] and so that it’s a really tricky time and i a child who comes out to

[00:27:20] his or her parents never forgets that moment it’s a really important moment yeah and that’s why

[00:27:26] it’s really important to just be uh have self-control and have and be loving

[00:27:33] and be super generous and and just love your child unconditionally and try as best you can to to process it

[00:27:41] with them and walk them through it and walk with them and say look you know i you know i don’t

[00:27:47] i’m here for you just whatever you know you need i’m here for you and that’s the best you can really do

[00:27:54] because there’s you can’t you know chain your kid to you know or lock your kid in the bedroom and

[00:28:00] um there’s you know that’s not going to be helpful and it’s not going to bring your kid to christ like it’s not going to

[00:28:07] help bring them in you know into the kingdom or or whatever it’s not going to so that’s i think the

[00:28:14] best thing you can do is just really love them and try to to have open

[00:28:20] communication okay yeah yeah that’s great advice so um the other question along those same

[00:28:27] lines you know you said um it’s important to have your convictions settled and you know you talk about this a

[00:28:33] little bit too you said um the culture has infiltrated the church christians don’t know what to believe anymore

[00:28:39] is homosexuality sin or is it not anymore right and and we have tons of uh cultural

[00:28:44] influencers all over the place who blatantly don’t think it’s a sin the government you know uh doesn’t uh obviously doesn’t

[00:28:51] think is the sin the law doesn’t yeah um and so you know that’s a

[00:28:56] to say have your convictions settled i mean we live in a time where people have uh there’s a lack of convictions

[00:29:03] and so i guess my question is is um you know i have students and i have great discussions with my

[00:29:09] students in school and we we talk about all these different difficult issues we i help them wrestle

[00:29:15] through them but there’s a lot of kids a christian or otherwise who would say i don’t think homosexuality is

[00:29:22] wrong i don’t see any reason for it to be wrong um and i just you know i love the bible or

[00:29:28] i love jesus but you know what i think homosexuality is fine and you know how do you respond to somebody who who says something like

[00:29:34] that and how do you how do you move that ball down the court um towards establishing those convictions um that

[00:29:41] you are you currently are and um have those convictions

[00:29:46] yeah uh yeah i mean it’s uh first of all one we have to realize

[00:29:53] this is something that we there’s blind spots uh in the world because we have to understand that we’re

[00:29:59] living in a very specific time and place in history

[00:30:04] this is a very specific epoch and and so we have to understand like 30 40

[00:30:11] years ago 30 years ago 50 years ago it wouldn’t even be a question like yes

[00:30:17] it wouldn’t even be a question that the bible was clear about homosexuality being a sin

[00:30:22] so you have to you have to ask yourself what has changed what like has the bible changed has the

[00:30:28] word of god changed or has the culture changed and if the culture has changed

[00:30:33] how has it influenced me so i try to get across to people especially young

[00:30:39] people everything you’re consuming like you’re imbibing

[00:30:45] it from social media to tv shows to netflix to whatever it it’s all you’re being bombarded by it

[00:30:53] 24 7. and those are the lies of the world like i my a lot of my friends produce the

[00:31:00] content that those that you guys are watching yeah and and my old friends they they who some of

[00:31:06] them are gay and um and they produce that content and they’re writing it from a place of

[00:31:12] kind of a secular humanist world view and so uh you have to understand that all of

[00:31:18] that i all of that is it’s essentially indoctrination and

[00:31:25] brainwashing i mean when you watch sex in the city for six seasons and then you watch the movie like

[00:31:30] the first movie in the second movie i mean that’s full indoctrination into that and um i actually did a study

[00:31:37] kind of on sex on this define that diff can you define that for us that

[00:31:43] word indoctrination um when you say that word indoctrination what does that mean

[00:31:49] it just basically means um brainwashing like re-education camps and chairman

[00:31:55] mao’s uh cultural revolution it’s just like it’s like

[00:32:02] if you if if if you’re young and you start to watch tv shows or movies with through a

[00:32:09] biblical lens you’ll see all of the constant brainwashing that’s going on

[00:32:16] that that they’re they’re trying to convince you of and uh and they’ve succeeded like uh

[00:32:23] hollywood has succeeded over the last 50 years um to convince us as a culture

[00:32:30] uh homosexuality homosexual behavior has gone from a sin to a sacrament in the last 50 years yeah and yeah and

[00:32:37] how did that happen because of hollywood and it’s powerful i mean storytelling is super powerful

[00:32:43] so when you have movies and tv shows when you have brokeback mountain and and pose and all these like tv shows and

[00:32:50] movies that celebrate homosexuality

[00:32:55] it’s it’s very difficult to fight against that in terms of in your

[00:33:01] own mind and heart it’s very difficult to so i always tell people if you’ve watched an hour of

[00:33:07] netflix you need to read the bible for an hour because you’ve just been lied to for an hour now you need the truth that’s great and

[00:33:13] it’s true it’s like the more you’re in the word of god the more um

[00:33:19] the more the truth is clear to you and the more you get it’s the sword of the spirit and so you can fight off the like

[00:33:25] the lies of all that stuff that’s coming at you and the other thing is

[00:33:31] uh we don’t have time to do this now but i mean i’m actually i i’m thinking i’m going to write this

[00:33:36] little pocket guide on this issue but um the bible like just

[00:33:41] is so the six passages in the bible that mention homosexuality

[00:33:47] uh directly uh i could take you through that through each of those uh each of those

[00:33:55] passages and show you how clear it is and why it’s clear because there’s so many

[00:34:00] people that um i get questions all the time like people sometimes will ask will they’ll say oh

[00:34:07] wasn’t the word homosexuality the word homosexuality wasn’t put into the bible until 1946

[00:34:12] like yeah because the bible is written in hebrew and greek like that’s the original language and in the old king

[00:34:19] james version when it talks about uh its homosexuality in first corinthians six

[00:34:25] it’s it’s they use the term um uh men abusing men or men

[00:34:33] abusers of men is the award for homosexuals so like of course they had to change the word so

[00:34:39] people could understand what it meant yeah and modern day is but it’s also like there’s you know the other argument

[00:34:44] there’s so many arguments but i’ll just give one more example um there are people say well paul didn’t

[00:34:49] really know about consensual homosexual love so he doesn’t really understand our contemporary understanding of

[00:34:56] orientation and blah blah blah not true jesus

[00:35:02] doesn’t mention homosexuality specifically in the gospels uh he also doesn’t mention pederasty he

[00:35:08] doesn’t mention bestiality um but jesus was speaking to jews

[00:35:13] and jews were very clear about this issue from leviticus 18 and

[00:35:18] 20. they knew they understood without a doubt like that homosexual behavior was sinful

[00:35:25] paul was speaking to wacky gentiles in corinth and other places who who were all cr like sexually crazy

[00:35:33] yeah so he was like hey guys yeah he’s like hey guys just so you know these things are not no

[00:35:39] bueno like like you can’t do this you can’t do that you can’t do that and um like you won’t inherit the kingdom of

[00:35:44] god like this is this is like serious of sexual immorality and and so the

[00:35:50] cultural distance that people say paul didn’t really know about this kind of

[00:35:56] adult consensual love is such is so false because in the in in the third and fourth

[00:36:02] century bc and even more recently than that in the first century plutarch

[00:36:08] and plato and other uh ancient greek philosophers and writers

[00:36:13] wrote wrote clearly about adult consensual homosexual love there’s lots of examples of it i could

[00:36:19] go through it but it’s there’s again it’s too time consuming but paul would have been completely aware

[00:36:26] of that kind of relationship and he and that those kinds of relationships were going on in corinth and that’s why he

[00:36:32] had to write them and say stop like stop doing this um so there’s there’s a lot of

[00:36:40] here’s the thing when somebody there’s not i mean liberal christianity started in the 19th century like there’s

[00:36:45] nothing new about this it’s um when someone when a person wants to rationalize sin

[00:36:55] you will go to great lengths to change the hermeneutic and exit jesus of the bible i mean you’ll just you’ll do whatever it

[00:37:01] takes to twist it into so it fits your passions uh which is

[00:37:07] what’s that verse no i can’t think of it um when they have itching ears oh yeah what their itching ears want to

[00:37:12] hear yeah will turn aside to myths and yeah to suit their passions yeah like

[00:37:19] that verse is like exactly what’s happening with this issue so it’s just it’s it’s it’s just a red

[00:37:26] herring i mean it’s because again it’s like so clear in the bible it is there’s

[00:37:31] and again i’m gonna put out a little book a pocket guide to this so people can

[00:37:37] just quickly see how simple it is and how clear it is yeah uh that’s awesome and you’re you’re also

[00:37:44] um writing another book a second book uh on 13 lies can you tell us a little

[00:37:49] bit about that what prompted that yeah well i you know because i lived in the dark for so long

[00:37:57] i lived in dark in the dark and i believed the light i totally not only believed the lies of

[00:38:04] the culture but i i was part of it i was part of the lie like i would actually i would write

[00:38:10] screenplays and things that um that would celebrate

[00:38:15] all kinds of stuff and so that that is sinful and so um there before i was a christian

[00:38:23] i there were so many lies like i believe that um for example this is one of the chapters

[00:38:30] in the book like i believe that the traditional family was outdated and regressive

[00:38:35] i just thought uh like the traditional family was almost like a

[00:38:40] threat to me because as an outsider as a gay man um that to me was like the convention

[00:38:47] and it was i always kind of and that’s what in general gay i mean i don’t know if i can’t speak for

[00:38:53] all gay people but uh there’s this sort of i felt alienated

[00:38:59] growing up from from the family because i i knew i was different and so i but i bought the lie

[00:39:07] that the traditional family was was lame like that the mother and the father and

[00:39:13] like you know i thought no like let’s you know let’s invert everything and everything should be

[00:39:18] you know two dads two moms or whatever like no no parents like listen um and so the the 13

[00:39:26] lies uh i won’t get into all of them but i mean i believe i was pro-choice uh and

[00:39:32] as soon as i got saved i mean i was i was firmly pro-choice and

[00:39:37] and all my friends were obviously pro-choice like there was no question and but as soon as i got saved i

[00:39:45] understood the image of god the imago day and i was like oh my gosh like everyone we’re all created in the

[00:39:51] image of god like yeah and that’s when i immediately just was like 100 pro-life like that switch so

[00:39:59] so the 13 lies are all the lies that i used to believe and now because of my uh conversion to

[00:40:05] christianity now i understand the truth underneath those lies and that’s what the book is about

[00:40:11] that’s great and who are you hoping that the book reaches um are you is that a book that’s written primarily for christians is it but

[00:40:17] written for you know those that were in the position that you were in or who are you reaching with that book

[00:40:22] you sound like my publisher who’s the target audience everyone is the target that’s right no i

[00:40:28] mean i i mean really i think the main audience is is the church as christians

[00:40:34] because i feel like christians as you can as you know i mean christians

[00:40:40] and because of the culture and because of how dominant it is and how convincing it is

[00:40:46] we as believers are starting to buy the i mean not starting we’ve been buying the buying some of these lies of

[00:40:52] the culture and so i think it’s really important to kind of show the contrast like okay

[00:40:59] this is this is what i believe when i was in darkness and this is the truth now that i’m in light

[00:41:04] so kind of contrast that starkly so people can so christians can just be like oh

[00:41:10] yeah like they can put words to like what they were sort of waffling on like oh yeah okay

[00:41:17] yeah that’s right and so that’s that’s really my target audience and and hopefully non-believers will read it

[00:41:23] as well and get you know get a glimpse of what it’s like to be you know in dark and then in life

[00:41:29] yeah oh and that’s hugely needed i mean i think i tell my students this is one of the key issues that we’re dealing with

[00:41:35] in our culture today and it’s it’s an issue in which as christians we need to be able to communicate lovingly and effectively

[00:41:41] about this issue because if we don’t we just come off as ignorant and and uh just believing blindly with no good

[00:41:48] reasons as to why we we have the beliefs that we do and so um that sounds uh desperately

[00:41:55] needed so uh that’s fantastic and um for those of you listening beckett cook is my guest and um

[00:42:01] and we’re almost out of time here but uh becketthcook.com and then becky when does your your next

[00:42:07] book come out well i mean that’s not gonna be for a while because i just started writing it

[00:42:12] so um it takes by the time you finish writing the manuscript it takes a year for it to get published i mean

[00:42:19] for to be out in the market so it could be two years or a year if i’m

[00:42:25] really fast if i work really hard it could be a year that’s right okay well well the sooner

[00:42:32] the better so yeah put the pressure on um and then um what do you think about you know as

[00:42:38] christians influencing the culture what do you um there there’s you know

[00:42:44] for a lot of people they look at this and they’re like oh man this is an uphill battle this is a you know uh somebody left the cat out of

[00:42:49] the bag and we’re having a hard time putting it back and so in your mind you know are there other um

[00:42:55] people that are heavily involved in the homosexual lifestyle or in in hollywood or these cultural

[00:43:01] influencers do you see um christians making inroads and and becoming more

[00:43:07] evangelistic and being more salt and light like you know the you said i hadn’t seen a bible in in

[00:43:13] hollywood in 15 years or 16 years um do you think that’s changing that that people are becoming more

[00:43:19] um you know willing to to share the the light of jesus it seems like it i mean it’s kind of

[00:43:25] like that thing with that phenomenon when you buy a car and suddenly you realize everyone has the same car as you do

[00:43:31] yeah um but now that i’m a christian i do see christians way more around in public

[00:43:36] and you know uh i was at whole foods recently and uh i was going through the line and

[00:43:44] the the woman who was uh the you know cashier um i just i was like i could tell she

[00:43:52] was a christian i don’t know what i could sense the spirit in her and i looked at her and i said you’re a christian aren’t you and

[00:43:57] she was like i sure am and i was like i am too praise god i was like i was like i could tell that you had the

[00:44:03] spirit in you she’s like i sure do that’s awesome i feel like yeah there’s

[00:44:09] there’s definitely seems like there’s like a revival of some sorts happening and um you know when i got saved i was

[00:44:17] so crazy on the set of shoots i would just like tell everyone the gospel i was just

[00:44:23] like oh my gosh everyone like i would tell everybody that like the anyone who would listen i would just

[00:44:30] tell them the gospel were they were they like get this guy out of here he’s crazy i thought they were gonna do that yeah

[00:44:36] and i cause i was i was very vocal and uh you know i would and i i was uh

[00:44:44] i was on this shoot one time with uh for ugg boots uh you know uh yeah yeah

[00:44:50] i was this is this is one of those many stories but i was on the shoot and

[00:44:56] the we were shooting in malibu at a house and and the the agency

[00:45:03] the owner of the agency the ad agency was like she’s like oh we got to get this shot like the

[00:45:08] lights going down it would be such a sin not to get the shot and she’s like oh becca you know all about sin don’t you

[00:45:15] like she was kind of you know goading me yeah and i was like actually i do i said right now all of you are dead in

[00:45:21] your trespasses and it’s awesome and i’m alive in christ and this is why and they were hilarious like they they

[00:45:27] loved it and yeah you know and i i was so vocal but and my agency never there was never seem

[00:45:36] to be a problem until my book came out a year ago and then um when my book came out i

[00:45:43] suddenly got cut off from hollywood like i just got i got deleted

[00:45:48] i got cancelled in hollywood yeah yeah i got dropped by my agent so um

[00:45:53] so now yeah that that’s that’s kind of how that went yeah yeah well beckett um thank you so

[00:46:00] much for being on the program today um i just think it’s an incredible testimony and i’m going to be praying for you to

[00:46:06] finish that book quicker so yeah yeah looking forward to it so uh if you

[00:46:12] guys are listening and you didn’t get to hear the whole interview um you can check it out it’s going to be all over our youtube channel it’ll be up on facebook it’ll be up on

[00:46:19] uh all our different uh social media outlets and uh just spread the word because um you know uh there’s hope in jesus

[00:46:25] christ nobody uh a lot of people are wandering around going what is the meaning of life

[00:46:30] and and just thinking is this all there is and um the bible says the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

[00:46:36] you know i i love that scripture because it doesn’t say there’s barely anybody that wants to get saved there’s barely anybody that needs

[00:46:42] the hope of jesus it’s very clear it’s not um the harvest

[00:46:47] that is uh not available it’s the harvest stirs and so um you know what uh beckett is

[00:46:54] doing the book hero and the book he’s writing are all meant to help you become more

[00:47:00] effective in being a light for christ and offering that hope that so many people are desperately looking for

[00:47:06] but sometimes aren’t finding it so please check it out beckettcook.com he’s the author of change of affection a

[00:47:13] gay man’s incredible story of redemption and again beckett thank you so much thank you kevin glad to be here

[00:47:19] okay god bless we’ll see you guys hopefully another time all right cool thank you bye-bye

[00:47:45] you