The Responsive Marriage: Finding the Path Out of Reactivity with Dr. Donald Welch

[00:00:00] thanks for being here this evening my name is Kevin Conover and we’re broadcasting down here in Southern California you’re listening to educate

[00:00:06] for Life radio and we’re on K praise 1210 a.m. as well as FM 106.1 in North

[00:00:12] County and uh we’ve got all kinds of fantastic guests on the show that you can share we’re on podcast so you can

[00:00:18] check us out on iTunes and all the other different podcast platforms for all kinds of amazing information and I’ve

[00:00:25] got a really exciting show this evening uh with a wonderful guest that actually know personally and um let me tell you a

[00:00:33] little bit about him before we hop in here you’re going to love this program his name is Dr Don Welch and he founded

[00:00:39] what is called The Welch Family Therapy Institute he is a licensed marriage and family therapist he has over 30 years of

[00:00:46] experience in the field of mental health and relationship skills uh he founded the center for enriching relationships

[00:00:52] in 2002 they have uh a bunch of different sites down here locally in Southern California he has 30 therapists

[00:00:59] and 50 University students in training which is phenomenal he oversees a partnership between CER and Point

[00:01:05] lanzarin University to train and provide clinical hours to students in the master of arts and clinical counseling program

[00:01:11] he’s a published author University professor and speaker at conferences churches Retreats and seminars he has

[00:01:17] three master’s degrees and a doctorate degree Dr Welch thanks a lot for being

[00:01:23] on the program this evening oh Kevin it’s my pleasure it’s so good to see you and your your family and so glad

[00:01:28] everything’s going so well for you and we sure appreciate you and thank you for having me on your

[00:01:34] show ABS absolutely you know um for those of you who don’t know uh I my wife

[00:01:39] and I attended pastor pastor and Dr Welch his class for two years over at

[00:01:45] Skyline um Community Church and I’ll tell you it was a huge blessing to us

[00:01:50] and I feel so privileged to have been able to sit in that class every Sunday for two years and there were there were

[00:01:56] takeaways there that had a dramatic influence on my own marriage and helping me to be a better husband and um just in

[00:02:02] so many ways so uh Pastor Don thank you very much for for what you’ve uh been doing and and continue to do oh what an

[00:02:09] honor and thank you thank you so much for participating and I look forward to our discussion today as well so thank

[00:02:15] you Kevin very much I was going to say my son what your tutelage as you know

[00:02:21] you were his teacher and you were his favorite one of his well I better be careful there because you were

[00:02:27] truly Professor he so enjoyed you thank you we learned so much about the Lord

[00:02:32] and so thank you sir oh Daniel is fantastic I had we had a blast his year was a lot of fun and uh you know what’s

[00:02:39] that verse that says cast your bread upon the waters and it will return to you right so it’s like uh we we each

[00:02:44] have an opportunity to serve one another and that blessing comes full circles so uh thank the Lord um but we’re gonna be

[00:02:50] talking about Pastor Don Dr Don’s um Don Welch’s book um you just came out with

[00:02:56] this book responsive marriage um finding the path out of

[00:03:03] reactivity and start with the question I mean this is an unusual um title for a marriage book

[00:03:11] it’s not something that you would immediately think of oh this is the title unless you you have the experience

[00:03:17] to know what the big issues are and the subtitle says finding the path out of reactivity uh break that down for our

[00:03:23] listeners what what is why did you choose this title yes for a long time I have seen as

[00:03:30] a clinician Pastor also a professor I have seen I

[00:03:35] believe one of the more significant destructive parts of marriage having to

[00:03:41] do with how people conduct involuntary reactions so if I may just give you an example of that like say I sigh or I

[00:03:49] roll my eyes Kevin or I might giggle we have hundreds of these that happen

[00:03:55] without our awareness it’s unconscious and often times that then creates a

[00:04:00] reactivity a reaction by the other person until now they’re in a fight I we

[00:04:05] thought of this one time I started asking people you both of you your in the class you may remember my asking hey

[00:04:12] have you guys ever been in a a misunderstanding or a fight and I’ll ask the class that or a conference and

[00:04:19] oftentimes everyone raises their hand yes and then I ask the second question in the middle of that misunderstanding

[00:04:26] or this fight I guess you could call it misunderstanding did you ever stop and say what what are we fighting about I

[00:04:33] have no idea what we’re fighting about how did we get here and truly the answer

[00:04:39] to that I believe scientifically is that we have a reaction reaction to that so I

[00:04:46] Define reactivity which is we’re we’ve defined the book as the responsive marriage but a reactive marriage is that

[00:04:53] reactiv reactivity is involuntary uncontrolled relationship and impeding

[00:05:00] behaviors that originate from the feeling part of our brain known as the limpic system and because they originate

[00:05:07] from the feeling part of the brain rather than the thinking part they are largely outside of our conscious

[00:05:13] awareness and this is what makes reactivity so Insidious so we’re often

[00:05:18] not even aware say we are rolling our eyes or sighing in exasperation turning

[00:05:23] away from our spouse or acting in other ways that tend to create distance and Jesus talked about non- distance he says

[00:05:32] I’ll never leave you never forsake you I’m coming to you and so a healthy relationship is able to stay present

[00:05:39] with each other when it becomes a bit reactive and that can be difficult because if our lyic system goes too high

[00:05:46] in other words our sympathetic nervous system we we have a hard time controlling because involuntary

[00:05:53] reactions tend to come to us the example if I can just give in all of the

[00:05:58] textbooks Kevin I’ve taught psych 101 many many times sometimes twice a year

[00:06:04] for years and in all textbooks they will design a little structure that has

[00:06:09] somebody has their hand or their finger over a candle and then it shows the neurological reactivity that happens

[00:06:16] when you when your hand touches something hot there is a reflex without

[00:06:21] the brain knowing that it’s hot instantly and most people will go no no no no I knew it was hot when I touched

[00:06:28] it it was hot well that’s true except that uh scientifically and biologically

[00:06:33] neurologically When We Touch something what happens that’s hot we have a reflex

[00:06:39] and it’s God’s way to protect us from burning our hand hopefully and that happens that reflex can happen from

[00:06:46] Early Childhood trauma or experiences that now are uh acting out in the marriage

[00:06:56] itself yeah that’s this is so important I feel like um for people’s marriages

[00:07:03] and you’ve you know you’ve written this whole book with this as the focus of the title so obviously in your mind over 30

[00:07:09] years of experience this is uh would you say the key issue to a long-term healthy

[00:07:15] marriage yeah yes I really do believe that that most marriages have this

[00:07:21] reactivity in it and I can remember early on in our marriage Robin whom you know well my precious wife that we had

[00:07:29] quite a bit of reactivity initially in our marriage and um by the way we’ve

[00:07:34] also developed an assessment tool that measures the in in um involuntary

[00:07:40] reaction it’s in the very back of the book where you can connect with it and it’s 204 questions so it’s a scientific

[00:07:46] driven tool that measures your involuntary reaction so awareness provides the opportunity to choose and

[00:07:53] the focus of the book is choice and voice equals trust so the more awareness we have the the more we are able to say

[00:08:00] manage the involuntary reactions that have already happened um that’s that’s a

[00:08:06] little bit so you emphasized here awareness um

[00:08:11] so how do you develop that awareness and real quickly um I for those of you listening uh my guest is Dr Don Welch

[00:08:18] and there is a marriage conference covering what we’re talking about today so if you’re like wow I need this this

[00:08:25] is something that would really benefit my marriage not only can you get the book but on May uh May 17th and 18th is the

[00:08:33] responsive marriage conference located here in Southern

[00:08:39] California um Dr Welch I’ll let you speak to that but you can also find more information about this on Welch therapy

[00:08:45] institute.com Welch is wch therapy institute.com uh tell us a

[00:08:51] little bit where is this uh responsive marriage conference going to be held uh Dr Welch right in East County uh not far

[00:08:57] not far from you and that’s going to be at the elone wesleyian church and it’s

[00:09:04] it’s you can find that easily we have it on our website that you already said Welch therapy institute.com and that

[00:09:10] will give you all the information you need to know about it U we’re going to have we hope to have a Lambs player uh

[00:09:17] actress actor there excuse me we’re we’re we’re going to have comedy we’re going to have demonstration by a couple

[00:09:24] demonstrating how reactivity can be moved to more responsivity uh we we have

[00:09:30] a saxophonist saxophone who will be doing music it’s it’s going to be we

[00:09:35] have lunch provided on Saturday so it’s Friday night from uh it’s 6:30 I think

[00:09:41] to 9: and then Saturday till about 3 o’clock and we hope that this will be

[00:09:46] lifechanging because you’ll be able to take the assessment we have a handbook that comes with it and then almost 40

[00:09:53] pages of defining your reactivity to help you and say if you’re dating someone seriously or or dating or you’re

[00:10:01] engaged or you’re married and it doesn’t matter if you’ve been married uh one day

[00:10:06] or 60 years because we all have reactivity and this talks the book talks

[00:10:12] about how to decrease that reactivity if I can give you one example I had when I

[00:10:18] was a pastor I had a couple come in and we were talking about their expectations for the marriage and they’d been married

[00:10:24] 40 years and they never really talked about their expectations so they had a lot of reactivity man and so so I said

[00:10:32] how do you what are some of the things you do in the home and what would you prefer not to do and she said his wife

[00:10:39] said well I love taking out the trash but for 40 years my husband wouldn’t let me he take out the trash and he stood up

[00:10:47] in the session put his hands up in the air and said what do you mean 40 years ago you should have told me that you

[00:10:54] love taking out the trash I hate taking out the trash well they hadn’t talked about things that cause reactivity and

[00:11:00] we’re going to talk about that at the conference on May 17 and May 18 at the

[00:11:07] elone uh Wesleyan Church but it’s also in the book we talk about that so those are the kinds of things that can cause

[00:11:14] reactivity but with your previous question Kevin yes I firmly believe that

[00:11:19] reactivity that’s that you cannot see you cannot almost you can’t stop it like

[00:11:25] for example in 1991 there was the discovery of mirror neurons we’ve all heard of that because

[00:11:31] I think two or three years later the famous book Daniel Goldman’s book on emotional intellig hit the hit the New

[00:11:39] York’s Times bestseller and there are hundreds of books now written and his first his fifth command in that book is

[00:11:46] that if you want to know how to manage other people manage your own emotion first and that’s EQ you know when I was

[00:11:53] growing up I never heard of E I don’t know that I had much of it either but emotional intelligence we knew of IQ and

[00:12:00] I was I was lacking some of that as well but EQ so this idea in this book is

[00:12:06] trying to suggest that we clearly have a major epidemic of divorce not just

[00:12:12] because of involuntary reaction but because we’re not managing it well and

[00:12:18] it is it we have too much anxiety there’s too much anxiety in our society now and the way way I discovered that

[00:12:24] Kevin I started asking my students years ago and you may do this with your students tell tell me uh when was the

[00:12:30] first time you guys um you thought you had a a text you know a phantom text I

[00:12:38] said a phantom that was a mistake as a professor a phantom text and someone what do you mean a phant you mean

[00:12:44] Phantom of the Opera and I said no no no a phantom text where you think there’s a text you you feel it and yet it’s not

[00:12:50] there all hands it seemed went up and that was showing a lot of anxiety if you’re always anticipating because in

[00:12:57] the dsm5 that that’s the small Bible with the small B for all psychological

[00:13:03] disorders and challenges and that the anxie is anticipatory and so these ideas

[00:13:08] if we anticipate our mate to be reactive toward us then we’re going to already be

[00:13:13] reactive and I think it is really the demise of marriages there’s other features the other factors but a lot of

[00:13:21] this comes from childhood wounds and childhood challenges that have happened to all of us in different

[00:13:26] ways so um I have a question about this because you know what you hear what is

[00:13:32] what has been popularly said um is that the two biggest causes of divorce are

[00:13:38] sex and money right um and you’re saying actually that what is causing all the

[00:13:47] problems is reactivity um how are those related to

[00:13:52] one another is that true about money money and sex or is that is that not true that is that is true k Kevin and uh

[00:14:00] so yeah it’s so easy to talk with you Kevin so I love this conversation that you are exactly right research would

[00:14:07] show money and communication and yet if we cannot communicate we can’t talk about money so

[00:14:14] often times communication Rises to the first level of concern and what happens in communication we can’t help but react

[00:14:22] let me give you an example if I can from with the other person is if I were to kind of squint my eyes like I’m really

[00:14:29] trying to listen to you a miror neuron which I was just talking about that was

[00:14:34] discovered in Italy back in 1991 it’s not very long ago you might without

[00:14:39] knowing you might squint your eyes if if you know our kids were much younger um

[00:14:46] is that you know when a baby cries oftentimes there’s an empathic reaction from another baby so what happens is we

[00:14:54] have a reaction already to someone so if our communication is not very good good

[00:14:59] it’s not healthy it’s not where it should be we will begin to react to our mate and especially about money you know

[00:15:06] Jesus talked more about money than prayer more times in the Bible we all know that when you count it he talked

[00:15:12] about not how much money you have but how you hold it too close maybe to the heart and the idea that money always

[00:15:20] raises involuntary reactions uh because the greatest fear could be that I’m not

[00:15:25] going to be successful that is the greatest fear of a male uh then and for a female it’s more of

[00:15:31] I’m going to be abandoned or not be cared for because we think of females uh Jesus spent so much time caring for them

[00:15:37] and they they actually have much more depression than do males um so I got off on a little

[00:15:43] tangent yes no there’s so much good stuff here to unpack

[00:15:49] um and so that uh you know you were talking about the anxiety and the

[00:15:54] depression and anxiety and depression are somewhat related to one to another and that the what and when we come to

[00:16:01] these big issues like sex and money in marriage um there’s so much surrounding

[00:16:06] them that can create anxiety um for the for the couples and that it it short

[00:16:12] circuits their ability to communicate and all they are is reacting one to another they’ve stopped communicating

[00:16:18] and um so this is really interesting to me so how do you begin to

[00:16:26] navigate you know a person may be listening to this and they they may be thinking well I’m not really reactive I

[00:16:31] don’t think I mean am I reactive you know this might be going through their mind because it’s not something we really think that much about because like you said it’s almost um it’s it’s

[00:16:39] almost just a part of the way we live uh and we we lose sight of the fact that

[00:16:44] it’s even happening so how does a person begin to identify this in their own life and start to you know kind of critically

[00:16:52] examine the way they are reacting how do they figure that out yeah let’s start with an example if we make Kevin um say

[00:16:59] you grew up playing soccer and you really loved it maybe there’s someone who didn’t love it but you love soccer

[00:17:07] and you remember smelling the green grass the cut freshly cut green grass

[00:17:13] and wherever you’re maybe you’re walking or running or with your family or and with a friend and all of a sudden you

[00:17:20] you run by a nicely fresh cut grass Alon and all of a sudden without knowing you

[00:17:27] have these feelings that come over you as if you’re there at the soccer field

[00:17:34] now let’s say you were forced to play soccer and you absolutely hated it and

[00:17:40] so you associate green cut grass with how much you hate soccer well say you’re

[00:17:46] walking in your neighborhood and you walk by a fret fresh pet lawn and

[00:17:51] without knowing it’s an involuntary reaction that you might have the same guttle feelings that you did when you

[00:18:00] were younger so how to work on this is to begin to understand where the

[00:18:06] reactivity is coming from this is a little bit of sematic experience where we actually that’s a whole movement in

[00:18:13] the scientific world and that’s to be aware of where it’s it’s coming from Let me give another example of this I’m a

[00:18:20] trauma treatment specialist and what happens when we do EMDR it’s it’s it emulates third Rim

[00:18:27] sleep like rapid eye movement and our eyes are moving all of ours and if we get to third Rim sleep without knowing

[00:18:35] and we believe scientifically that that movement is trying to go back to a trauma or

[00:18:42] something that’s bothersome it could be recent and sometimes it could be way earlier in life and it’s trying to to

[00:18:49] reconstruct that so that new syapse will connect as you know we have synapse that

[00:18:56] connects all of our it’s like electrical current it’s faster than what

[00:19:01] 148,000 miles per second you know electricity but not quite as fast as Google but it’s so fast it happens

[00:19:07] before we know it and so we have these Co ongoing reactions in our life that we

[00:19:14] are unaware of and especially we can read our our mat’s face because 65 to

[00:19:23] 80% of all communication is non-verbal if my wife looks at me in a certain way

[00:19:28] way if if it’s in a negative way I almost get a tingle up and down my my

[00:19:33] back my sympathetic nervous system now fortunately trauma sounds like something

[00:19:39] that’s a trauma response yeah that’s a trauma response so you’re just so yeah these are just example I prise you know

[00:19:46] it’s fun I’m a good husband no no you’re a fantastic husband I it’s funny you say

[00:19:53] this because when my wife and I were first dating I didn’t know it but I used to make um facial expressions and she

[00:19:59] said to mewhy are you making that face and I saidwhat face and I was completely

[00:20:05] unaware but apparently it was a very like intimidating face and I didn’t I

[00:20:10] didn’t even know it but when she made me aware of it I was like oh man I got to stop that who who else am I doing this

[00:20:16] to who is like what does he not like me or you know and uh so that’s really interesting that you point that out yeah

[00:20:23] well you you know my kids Daniel and Savannah our kids Robinson and what happened is they would they would look

[00:20:28] at me say Dad stop looking stop looking at us like that and I said what am I looking like and finally they just one

[00:20:35] day took a picture of me and showed it and I said you got to be kidding me look at me you I said I make a living by

[00:20:41] listening to people I’m usually you know grimacing and following along and it it

[00:20:46] spoke volumes what I didn’t want to speak and that was involuntary reactions that I was having so we have to start to

[00:20:54] become aware of the reactivity one way to do that is a simple tool that we have

[00:20:59] in our handbook and I do spend quite a bit of time in the book and you may say well I already do this and it is where

[00:21:05] you actually begin to be aware of your core feeling and your core experience so

[00:21:12] let me give it let me give an example of this so say um say you your wife says

[00:21:19] something to you and at that point you already have a retort because we we

[00:21:27] practice this a lot don’t we well you would because you’re a skilled uh moderator

[00:21:33] teacher and well I’m I’m constantly reviewing in my mind the discussions and

[00:21:38] thinking wait a second you know right so we we we all do this to one degree or another right so yeah so the key to it

[00:21:46] is that you help the person uh name their core feelings so let me give an experience let me say that um Robin I

[00:21:55] say something to my wife Robin she she’s much more sensitive and intuitive and

[00:22:00] empathetic than I am but I say um she’s a very strong person but I say something

[00:22:07] to her and she’s able to use both feeling and thought together this is what she might say she might say oh um

[00:22:15] when I experience you talking with that tone I feel afraid

[00:22:21] scared and uh hurt now what we typically do is we’d

[00:22:28] want to say I didn’t do that to you I’m not even saying that to you that we that’s just we call it flight to

[00:22:35] intellectualization it’s one of the the top 10 top top 13 but top of the list of

[00:22:43] defense mechanisms and that’s flight to intellectualization so we have to stop ourselves and validate her first and say

[00:22:50] oh my so when I said this to you you experienced my voice and tone and it

[00:22:57] that that that’s your experience right that’s your experience your feelings are you feel cornered afraid and scared or

[00:23:03] frustrated whatever the feeling might be that’s the starting place that’s validation so in the book I talk about

[00:23:10] what is intimacy and intimacy we use the acostic of key ke Y is

[00:23:18] kindness that’s for the K the E so k e y k is for kindness e is for empathy and Y

[00:23:26] is for yielding and that’s all encompasses this idea of validating the other person’s experience

[00:23:33] and so we oftentimes say too often oh I really feel like this or I feel that or I feel this and here’s an example of it

[00:23:40] this is a misnomer this is not true when I say this well I just feel like you

[00:23:46] don’t love me well that’s not really a feeling the way to really get the

[00:23:52] feeling is to say when I experience when I experience you not listening to me I I

[00:23:58] feel unloved afraid scared does that make sense so we need

[00:24:03] to separate those two and that’s a great start to be able to not let or permit

[00:24:10] one’s involuntary reactions to to run them up to reign us rain on us yeah you

[00:24:18] know um I don’t know if other people feel this way but sometimes when I I hear this stuff I’m like so good so good

[00:24:26] so good so good but I can’t I can’t do all this this is crazy like I because

[00:24:31] everything is so second nature you know what I’m saying that that we have so many patterns that we’ve developed over

[00:24:39] our lifespan that sometimes you you look at it and you just go this is all like

[00:24:45] exactly what I need to be but how in the world am I going to do this what would

[00:24:51] you say to the the the husband or the wife or the couple that says you know uh

[00:24:58] um uh we love what you’re saying Dr Welch but we feel kind of hopeless and

[00:25:03] that this is beyond our ability to change what do you say to somebody like that that is that’s such a powerful

[00:25:09] question I think we’d be asked of all of us in the sense of um the the perhaps

[00:25:17] response is that Jesus really wants us to have intimacy um in fact to have intimacy

[00:25:25] where we’re not it’s not like second nature and when you use the word second nature Kevin may may I suggest that se

[00:25:31] second nature is like someone who throws a ball a pitcher and they get muscle

[00:25:36] memory so when they throw it they not analyzing it as they throw it it’s second nature right that’s involuntary

[00:25:44] reactions and we all do that in different ways and say if my parent

[00:25:49] would raise their voice at me that um actually my parents didn’t I probably should have but I got spanked enough as

[00:25:56] a kid so but I was going to say that and I deserved every time believe you me was a

[00:26:02] plan my dad would say this is g to hurt me more than you and I never understood that till I got a little older but the

[00:26:08] idea was that that um we have these involuntary reactions and so one way to

[00:26:16] work on it is to just consistently on a five to 10 minute a

[00:26:22] day practice behaviors that allow you not to be reactive so my parent yelled

[00:26:28] at me let’s say that happened like I was suggesting if I got yelled at and then my wife which she’s never yelled at me

[00:26:34] but my wife Robin if she yelled at me I might have an involuntary reaction to

[00:26:39] her like I did to my parents and so we want to do is separate those two so that

[00:26:45] I’m staying present with my wife not that she should yell at me or she does but yelling does happen well no that’s

[00:26:52] well that’s what I was going to ask you as you said you should practice this 5 to 10 minutes a day should should I tell

[00:26:57] my wife to yell at me and I’ll practice staying calm how how do I practice that I I know

[00:27:04] she’s such a sweet person I can’t even imagine her ever yelling at you I can’t even imagine that but just but I was

[00:27:11] going to say that um what you can practice is practice something positive

[00:27:17] so think about being at a restaurant that’s what I do with my patients in my clinic is that I’ll ask him think about

[00:27:23] being at your favorite restaurant and then think of each other and say what I

[00:27:29] experience when I’m when I experience being here with you at the restaurant I feel happy elated and peaceful and then

[00:27:36] the other person validates that by just saying it back to the other person does

[00:27:42] that make sense that’s showing kindness that’s showing empathy but if we don’t validate we almost can without

[00:27:50] intentionality wipe out empathy and empathy is so important you

[00:27:56] know have you ever seen uh an older couple like my wife’s a little bit younger than I am but I’m kind of old but you know you go to a

[00:28:03] restaurant you see the person and he’s sweetly pulling out her chair and she sits down and then the padding and you

[00:28:11] okay honey are you doing well and there’s this sweet tenderness of empathy likely that couple practiced including

[00:28:19] and increasing their empathy because the lack of empathy will always cause a

[00:28:24] marriage to default to a business relationship did you get the dry cleaning did you get the kids to their

[00:28:29] events and then it becomes very pragmatic and that’s a danger danger place Mr Rogers danger danger danger to

[00:28:37] actually be in that position yeah very interesting uh yeah

[00:28:43] you know it’s funny because I was thinking about um I I I just turned 48 and I was thinking about okay um I I

[00:28:50] want to have a really joyful marriage um my parents just celebrated their 70th

[00:28:56] anniversary which is incredible and they’re they’re very close uh to one

[00:29:04] another and um I was thinking okay so what is the picture of what I would like

[00:29:09] my marriage relationship to be like um with my wife um so that we can really

[00:29:15] enjoy one another’s company and and really um have a closeness and you know

[00:29:22] you’ve mentioned intimacy several times here when you use the word intimacy you’re

[00:29:28] you are um referencing the word is that mean closeness is that what we’re talking about is this is intimacy the in

[00:29:35] in your mind is that the ideal goal is pursuing intimacy well it is the

[00:29:43] biblical goal when Jesus talked about father I pray that we’ll be one and then I pray they’ll be one as we are one

[00:29:49] talking about the Trinity so when we think about it intimacy is having a full

[00:29:55] voice and full choice I talk a lot about this this in the book and we will be talking a lot about this at the

[00:30:00] conference on May 17 May 18 that yes intimacy when we think about that I

[00:30:06] think of the great kosis passage in the Bible where Jesus said I do not even

[00:30:12] though he’s fully God fully man right Kevin you’re our Biblical scholar here but yeah fully man fully fully God and

[00:30:18] he said I do not this is God saying this Jesus saying this I do not consider

[00:30:23] myself equal with God but I make myself less then and pour out my life you know

[00:30:30] that’s I believe that’s it’s the great kosis passage which um kosis meaning to

[00:30:36] know and so uh this idea that that God wants to be wants us to fully know him

[00:30:44] and that’s the example he wants us in marriage to be fully known and to fully know the other person and one way to do

[00:30:51] that is to make sure that you allow the other person to have full voice full choice I use this nerdy illustration

[00:30:58] with my students so I’m calling Robin right I’m calling her and I my students isn’t it true you’re not nerdy but I’m

[00:31:05] kind of nerdy and it worked better for me as a professor I was kind of nerdy kind of tripping over things and people

[00:31:10] kind of laugh at me yeah yeah pretend I pretend to be nerdy I pretend to be nerdy but they all think I’m really cool

[00:31:17] especially with my hat they love my hat you have to pretend to nerdy I’m already

[00:31:23] nerdy just ask my kids ask my I just tell I just tell myself that my my I

[00:31:30] come home and I tell my son my son goes dad why do you wear that hat and I I said because it’s cool everybody thinks

[00:31:36] it’s cool he goes dad nobody thinks that’s cool so I just I just tell myself it’s

[00:31:43] cool it’s so true isn’t it we get humbled with our kids don’t we they keep us humble yes so I’m calling my my wife

[00:31:50] and so I ask her I I say hun do you have a moment to talk do you have a moment to

[00:31:55] talk and she says uh I really now no notice the voice and choice in this okay

[00:32:02] she says I I don’t really have a moment to talk how about in two hours and I said oh no I’m going into a session with

[00:32:09] a client how about in three with that week well I’m going out with my friend for lunch but I’ll be back at two and

[00:32:16] while I’m saying this one of my students go hey Prof just tell her what you want tell her what you need I said okay okay

[00:32:22] but hold on for a moment the idea is choice and voice in this and so the concept is she might say well yes I can

[00:32:29] do it at that time I can do it at that time the more high level of voice and choice in a marriage the more trust the

[00:32:36] more empathy the more yielding and the more kindness because we are considering

[00:32:42] the other person’s voice and what happens in marriage when a couple gets first married they do what all the

[00:32:48] business all of the business books I’ve ever read I’ve not

[00:32:54] read all of them but a lot of them will say the only thing we have as a leader

[00:33:00] is influence right we can be autocratic force people to do things that’s your job your job description you’re gonna do

[00:33:07] that well they’ll leave pretty soon you don’t have a company but the idea is all we have is influence and so what we

[00:33:12] normally do in a marriage is we try to influence the other person so we’re opposite we are we are attracted to the

[00:33:19] opposite temperament so before marriage we can tend to attract to the opposite

[00:33:24] after marriage we can tend to attack that attack is trying to influence and make the other person like us and also

[00:33:31] in that assessment that I talked about Kevin earlier that you’ll be able to take out the conference that I believe

[00:33:37] well I’ve got it I’ve got it right here oh yeah you got the book I’m G I’m I’m gonna take it right after we get off the

[00:33:43] air okay all right it’s in the back of the book and you can connect with it but

[00:33:49] it also measures your normal temperament and so it has two things it measures your normal temperament and then it

[00:33:54] shows nine graphs of how you you can your your temperament can go Ary and so

[00:34:01] that we become more aware so we want that voice and choice that’s another response to your earlier question about

[00:34:07] how can we change this reactivity it’s becoming more voice choice in the

[00:34:14] relationship and practicing that on a regular basis so um I’ve got two

[00:34:21] questions that popped into my head uh do you ever have a situation in your in

[00:34:27] experience where you have a couple right and one of them listens to what you’re saying and they just latch on and

[00:34:34] they’re like oh yes this is this is it and the other one’s kind of oh ho hum ho hum and you ever have a situation where

[00:34:41] there seems to be an imbalance and what does what what happens there in that regard as far as like is this kind of a

[00:34:48] it takes two to tango kind of thing or can can a person um you know pursue this

[00:34:55] and it will will go in a good direction regardless of whether both of them are enthusiastic about it or not yes well in

[00:35:02] a therapy office that almost always takes place here’s why because you have

[00:35:09] opposite temperament two full people that were first attracted to each other usually

[00:35:14] I’ll ask a couple that’s in trouble I’ll say hey tell me what you guys do for fun together you know what’s uh and and

[00:35:21] their con constant statement that I hear is I don’t think we have anything in

[00:35:26] common that’s why we’re here you’re supposed to help us but usually Opposites Attract and then they can

[00:35:33] attack after marriage and then they can end up in a pastor’s office and a therapy office by the way I really

[00:35:39] believe that where healing takes place is in the local church we as therapists come alongside pastors and that’s why

[00:35:46] this whole group of materials that we’ve created it’s to help local churches have

[00:35:51] an entire uh marriage Ministry program uh that’s we hope but that is very

[00:35:57] common Kevin with couples and so what you have to do is to balance it to stay

[00:36:03] right in the middle of the couple and and allow one to be more resistant and the other one wanting what’s maybe being

[00:36:09] said because usually you don’t have both of them saying hey we’re 100% in now

[00:36:14] that does happen I’ve had that but oftentimes if the couple is in deep

[00:36:20] trouble one will say yeah fix him you know you’ve ever seen Far Side you know

[00:36:25] with the two bears standing and one had a you know has the bullseye on and he’s pointing the finger at the other one it’s

[00:36:30] like you know that happens in church that happens in church all the time when the pastor says something and you know

[00:36:37] so nudging nudging yes yeah exactly that’s this is for you yeah yeah in fact

[00:36:43] I’ve had that happen with teenagers for a long time that they’ll call up and say hey Doc can you fix our son or our

[00:36:50] daughter and oftentimes I want to say please come in with him or her and let’s try to work on this as a family and work

[00:36:56] on things uh because I believe in that but it is truly a common thing but you you try to

[00:37:01] help balance with them I’m not trying to teach a therapy claster but you try to balance yourself with them and allow

[00:37:07] each to have a voice like one will say I don’t think this will ever work and the other one’s saying I’m committed why aren’t you you know to the so so my

[00:37:15] question for that for our listeners because I think this is the situation for a lot of people is um do you see it

[00:37:21] as a hopeful situation if one Embraces it and the other one is uh you know not as enthusiastic um if that if the the

[00:37:30] person that’s the one person will will the other person come along over time as that person changes the reactivity um is

[00:37:37] there is that a hopeful situation or is it kind of like no if both people aren’t on board then you know it’s not it’s not

[00:37:43] really going to progress in a positive direction great question I believe therapeutically you only need one person

[00:37:50] that’s on board if the other person is tricking everyone and bringing the other one to drop them off into therapy is

[00:37:56] going to divorce them that’s a that’s a hopeless situation but if one one is

[00:38:02] there saying I get it let’s do this and the others going I don’t believe in this I’ve had that happen many times if if I

[00:38:08] can somehow create an environment where there’s no judgment on either and that

[00:38:15] there is a safe environment oftentimes if one can see the other

[00:38:20] mate um less reactive that can give hope because often times reactivity creates a

[00:38:28] lack of Hope because reactivity means there’s no voice no choice back to that concept that I was just sharing with my

[00:38:34] wife you know calling her and and we practice by the way just a little note if you practice that voice and choice

[00:38:41] this started happened to Robin and me years ago and I’m so thankful this happened we decided you know early on in

[00:38:47] a marriage you should decide the domestic responsibilities and we decided the last one out of bed in the morning by the way for all couples that might be

[00:38:54] listening please if it’s all all possible my wife and I practiced this in our entire marriage is go to bed at the

[00:39:01] same time and get up at the same time that’s a difficult difficult ask but

[00:39:06] pays great dividends John gotman and his literature out of the University of Washington has said those partings and

[00:39:14] those in inviting back you know coming back together they’re very important but here’s what happened to us and I still

[00:39:20] remember this and I think Robin did this we if you’re the last one out of bed you make the bed and so one morning one

[00:39:28] morning I I usually get up and run in the mornings with our dog before it’s even light and so I’m usually out of bed

[00:39:36] but I wasn’t that morning she got up and she said oh honey don’t worry about it

[00:39:41] I’ll get the bed I’ll make the bed and I said well honey I we we have a you know

[00:39:46] we have to we have our agreement that the last one out of bed would make the I’d be happy to make the bed she said no

[00:39:52] no no no please I just want to do that for you and we started having fun fun with that after a while and we started

[00:39:59] to try to increase she does it better than I do it because you can see she’s the one that led in this that where

[00:40:05] where we have decided something and say no no no I’ll I’ll go do that for you

[00:40:10] now my culinary skills are the worst on the planet so for me to try to step in and help that would be my kids would

[00:40:16] already say that they always go what’s wrong with Dad he he’s he doesn’t know how to cook very well yeah I’m so sorry

[00:40:21] but it my wife Robin she says it works for us but anyways that’s nice she’s so nice corn dog

[00:40:27] [Laughter] that’s great um for those of you

[00:40:33] listening my guest is Dr Don Welch and coming up is the responsive marriage

[00:40:38] conference May 17th and 18th I highly recommend uh you go to this um you can

[00:40:44] find more information on Welch therapy institute.com this is right here in East County San Diego um and so it’ll be a

[00:40:53] fantastic opportunity um regardless of whether you can can make that or not I

[00:40:58] recommend his book The responsive marriage if you’ve been listening to this program um I I think it’s obvious

[00:41:04] that it is a huge blessing to many people I’m thinking about making my son go to this uh conference just get a head

[00:41:10] start here he’s he’s only 17 but I’m like boy this might avoid a lot of Heartache down the road you know yes I

[00:41:18] just always welcome those who are you know dating or they’re engaged or married and those who were starting out

[00:41:25] their marriage to start out something correct is so important like you’re playing a you want to learn correctly

[00:41:31] where your feet should be where your arms should be and here this is talking about how to become aware of your

[00:41:38] reactivity and and including that key idea kindness for the k e for empathy

[00:41:44] and ye y for yielding um that yielding is so important that means that if I’m already reactive I yield to the other

[00:41:51] person you know I’m really sorry I didn’t mean to say that in fact that happened to me three nights ago I said

[00:41:56] something to my wife it was a quick reactivity and then I almost instantaneously saidoh honey I’m I’m

[00:42:03] really sorry I I didn’t that’s really not what I mean but I did react to you and I’m sorry and she said she quick to

[00:42:10] respond to me um the healthiest of marriages I’m not trying to say that our marriage is perfect because no one’s

[00:42:16] perfect we’re all human and but the idea is a perfect marriage if you want to say

[00:42:21] it that way healthy marriage is they recover quickly like I’m always amazed I love basketball and NBA you watch or now

[00:42:30] we’re in March Madness but you watch these athletes and they they turn an they turn an ankle when I turned an

[00:42:37] ankle as a kid I was out for three months they turn an ankle and then they’re back in the game I guess unless

[00:42:43] they tore a ligament but they’re back in the game because they are they are working well they’re they’re highly tone

[00:42:50] honed instrument so highly honed marriage is one that recovers quickly

[00:42:58] yeah that’s another thing I think that is something that um we could all learn to do better is after having conflict

[00:43:04] some people you know they’ll go days without talking to one another or they’ll hold grudges or whatever versus

[00:43:10] okay uh we’re moving beyond this I’m not gonna I’m not GNA take this personally uh is that just something that is

[00:43:16] another something that you focus on and you’re kind of like okay I I’ve got to um make a point of learning to recover

[00:43:26] quickly is that how that happens yes it’s not always possible because of our oympic system think about it if you in

[00:43:32] this way if you don’t mind and those for listening yeah Kevin is that say you’re on I5 and or I8 you know going out east

[00:43:42] and you know almost to have an accident you pull over to the side your your my hands are nervous at that point I’m

[00:43:48] Breathing heavily my limpic system is engaged uh it’s kind of the fight flight freeze and actually we talk about that

[00:43:55] in in the book as a lot is that and I about the Olympic system that’s kind of boring that would cause someone not to

[00:44:00] want to buy the book but I do talk about the Olympic system what happens to us sometimes we

[00:44:06] have to be able to calm down if it gets that wild that’s why sometimes Bible says that a couple should not part only

[00:44:13] to pray and fast so really the Bible instructs us if we at all possible if we

[00:44:19] can stay present so we have a lot of tips and skills that we try to suggest like good deep diaphragmatic breathing

[00:44:27] uh progressive muscle relaxation uh different ways to imagery uh to actually

[00:44:32] calm oneself and to to suggest that they can continue to be calmed but that’s

[00:44:39] that’s important to stay present with the other person if at all possible okay um a couple other things I

[00:44:47] wanted to just touch on real quick there’s so much uh to talk about but um you you one of the quotes from your book

[00:44:53] is unmet expectations are relationship Killers what what is an example of an

[00:44:58] unmet expectation um what are you referring there to when

[00:45:04] you say that what what what is a person what should a person keep their eyes open for yes so what I mean by that is

[00:45:12] an unmet expectation would be say I come home and I’m not sure if my my wife’s

[00:45:18] going to be angry happy or frustrated there’s a famous book that uh

[00:45:25] talks about um this idea of uh living in a home where it’s radical it’s it’s

[00:45:34] irrational um and uh the idea is that I’m not sure what I’m coming home to or

[00:45:41] I’m not sure and the person in this particular book talks about uh the book

[00:45:47] is called it will never happen to me Claudia Black wrote it phdl csw but in the book she said there’s three things

[00:45:53] that happens to a person when they don’t don’t have their expectations met so she

[00:45:58] said when we would come home and then our dad would arrive home and he was an alcoholic she said we would do three

[00:46:05] things depending upon how he reacted so if he if he closed his door gently to

[00:46:12] the vehicle we would come out and greet him if he got out and slammed the

[00:46:19] door we would hide under the beds if he slammed the door and begin screaming

[00:46:24] we’d run out the back door for our lives so they had no they didn’t know they well it looks like there’s three

[00:46:31] expectations but yeah more expectations we have by the way my wife doesn’t do

[00:46:36] that I’m very fortunate to be married to a woman that is really when I say this

[00:46:42] she you you saw her upfront in in the class and she I would oftentimes say

[00:46:47] that she is what you see upfront here in the sense of how she responds and reacts

[00:46:52] she sounds like an angel and she’s close to it but I hope you could hear that but

[00:46:58] what is if we don’t lay out expectations remember expectation would be for the

[00:47:04] couple early on in their marriage even before marriage to actually decide what

[00:47:10] the domestic responsibilities and other things like for example if we spend over

[00:47:15] $100 that if we’re looking to spend over $100 we’ll consult the other person whatever the money might be it could be

[00:47:21] $50 or whatever but it’s it’s the couple knows they can already expect what’s

[00:47:26] happening in fact that’s the best parenting is when the children know what to expect so it’s a killer when we’re

[00:47:34] always in point you know we’re we’re always reactive we see parentification happen to little children that they have

[00:47:40] to they have to react like an adult but they do not have the capacity to do that and that is trauma and they’ll carry

[00:47:45] that likely into their adulthood and into a marriage if uh they’re they’re

[00:47:51] not treated it sounds like um to a degree you’re connecting unmet expectations

[00:47:58] with um uh the the the inability to

[00:48:04] predict what is going to happen is there a relationship there there is that’s a

[00:48:10] really good point because predictable parenting is the best parenting um when you think about parenting there there is

[00:48:17] where it’s autocratic um that’s it’s going to be my way or the highway um and

[00:48:23] there’s the second one where we have a lot of reciprocity the third one is um

[00:48:29] where it’s permissive that’s we allow them to do what they want to do and then the fourth one is dismissive but the

[00:48:36] second one creates a balance of discussion you do this a lot in your classroom with your students and that’s

[00:48:43] and so predictable parenting is the best parenting because they know that they’re going to likely have some level of voice

[00:48:50] that comes from Dr Foster Klein the medical doctor who developed love and logic

[00:48:56] and in that he talks about how we ought to allow children to make decisions

[00:49:01] early on and I still remember my daughter early on we were getting ready for church in Kansas where we lived and

[00:49:08] uh we we would dress up you know I had a suit she had her little dress and my wife Robin and we were working she’s the

[00:49:13] oldest and so we were trying to encourage her to make choices early on so I said do you want to wear your blue

[00:49:18] dress honey or do you want your yellow dress she looked at me at about six years of age and she says daddy which

[00:49:24] one do you want which one do you like which is very true of healthy at that

[00:49:29] age and I said well I’ll tell you in a minute if you don’t mind can you make the choice can you and she looked out

[00:49:35] the window and saw the blue sky and she said oh I like blue dress and so she wore the blue dress but she had a lot of

[00:49:41] voice and choice we try to do that well I tend to be kind of autocratic my my

[00:49:46] kids said you always have an opinion on something dad and so all I did what I was talking about it’s called

[00:49:53] authoritative that’s the that’s the second best it’s the number one best parent not authorita not authoritarian

[00:49:59] but authoritative that’s the second one and then there’s permissive and so predictability is helpful um I always

[00:50:07] like to and I tell I tell sorry go ahead

[00:50:12] oh no please no no would you rather I go or you go I know I know I I I was kind of

[00:50:19] over writing out me this is your show Kevin did you see how I did you see how I initiated choice right there you I

[00:50:26] feel much better that’s awesome that’s awesome and

[00:50:32] then I can offer back to you we we go back and forth okay go ahead you go well

[00:50:37] I was going to say I have this little story in the in the book and we we tried to you talked about the pr

[00:50:43] predictability so we we did we took we did an uh a research project and what it

[00:50:48] was is we had our students they were taking an exam and then uh we had an

[00:50:53] impossible exam for them to take and then I had the true exam so the

[00:50:59] other professors in the classroom and we did this both ways but he was in the classroom and this exam it was a

[00:51:05] theology exam and there was no way they could answer any of the questions it was impossible it was set up that way so

[00:51:11] they’re growning looking around you know groaning and what’s going that all this

[00:51:16] involuntary reactions right this is in the book so this is what nerdy professors do in their off time so what

[00:51:22] we did is so we came in I came in with the real test and I said do whatever I’ll name his name and I said hey I

[00:51:29] think you gave them the wrong test here’s the real exam and I mean Havoc

[00:51:34] broke out people were throwing things up in the air so the temperaments came out so the inverted people they just put

[00:51:41] their head down on the table and said and moaned the extroverted people in fact

[00:51:47] one was student body president he got on top of the table and he said Welch I’m going to get you for this and what it

[00:51:53] showed is invol we had a great time it was just so much fun but we was their

[00:51:59] involuntary reactions came out so and we gave them they got an A on the exam so

[00:52:04] uh I think they liked us afterwards anyway because it was an

[00:52:09] experiment that that’s fantastic I love it so what I was going to ask you about was um that you said predictability and

[00:52:19] parenting it’s the best type of parenting but does that also translate

[00:52:24] to the husband relationship is predictability the best type of spousal

[00:52:30] relationship also yes so for example I’ll give an example most couples one

[00:52:35] person is late to events the other is early or on time I happen to be the one that’s late and my wife is always on

[00:52:42] time so I’ve had to work on that uh much more to try to be more on time and

[00:52:49] that’s that step of Faith toward the couple so they build a predictability that works for them but but notice that

[00:52:56] Opposites Attract and then they can attack after marriage and there’s lots of opposites that is not predictable

[00:53:03] like one person says hey let’s I’m just GNA talk to whomever I want after church the other’s ready to go well that’s not

[00:53:10] predictability that the couple has to take a step of Faith toward each other in the sense of let’s talk this through

[00:53:16] hey could we just talk to two people after church well yes I like to talk to you but why don’t you talk to them as well you know and you work on you work

[00:53:23] on being predictable with each other because that creates the most safe place there is on the planet

[00:53:31] that that reduces anxiety and with a a reduction in anxiety it reduces

[00:53:37] reactivity absolutely it does because remember in the dsm5 I may have mentioned this I I remember saying it

[00:53:43] earlier is that anxiety is anticipatory in nature so the more predictability we

[00:53:50] have the less anxiety is in the home that’s why even predict ility of going

[00:53:55] to bed at the same time and getting up at the same time now keep in mind that because of Opposites Attract that is a

[00:54:02] feat to be accomplished because most couples one is a night owl and the other one likes to get up early right yeah I

[00:54:08] mean that’s not all and so God God has a a clear sense of humor here he does and

[00:54:14] I I believe I believe this is where we can really put Bible into to motion and

[00:54:19] that is taking that step of Faith toward the other person where you actually learn to appreciate let me can I give

[00:54:25] one other example do yeah yeah give 10 more we were just 10 more we Robin and I

[00:54:32] were just married this truly happened to us and we were just married and it’s this really ages me because we we had to

[00:54:38] write out our check for TI that was the only way to give it to the church so this ages me like whatever but not not

[00:54:44] really 50 but is that um I looked at her and I said hey this is our first time together and um did you remember to

[00:54:52] write the check and she goes I’m not sure I knew I was the one that was supposed to write the check but I’ve got the checkbook here and I’ll write it and

[00:54:58] I said okay great so she pulled out the checkbook now keep in mind my wife is

[00:55:04] methodical she carefully does things I do things quickly and I’m not as careful

[00:55:10] that’s an opposite right so she started to write the check and she writes

[00:55:15] methodically and makes you can really read her signature she’s right and I’m

[00:55:21] looking back and I’m seeing the ushers coming and I’m getting anxious now I have an involuntary reaction I’ve got to

[00:55:27] get that money in the you know into the church and yeah if it goes by You’ve Lost Your You’ve Lost Your Blessing I’m

[00:55:34] I’ve lost my blessing that’s right that’s the problem so she’s writing and I’m noticing I have an

[00:55:40] involuntary reaction and my reaction was she’s slow I didn’t say it thank the

[00:55:46] Lord I did not but I thought my reaction was my involuntary reaction was

[00:55:52] disrespect and that was she slow because I would have written it it’s done pull

[00:55:57] it out yeah here it is Usher and I realized in that first church service

[00:56:03] with my bride that if I didn’t manage that well that reactivity would grow and

[00:56:09] I would not be responsive to my wife so I learned that she’s methodical now what can happen is we can say a lot of things

[00:56:16] negative about our spouse or even someone we’re dating perhaps with with

[00:56:22] our reactivity because of our expect the expectation we have I expected her

[00:56:28] to do it really quickly like I do but I want influence her to be like me right this is all wrong it’s wrong to do that

[00:56:34] and so I learned that I’m gonna make sure that I respect her as much as

[00:56:40] possible because I’m gonna already have a reaction because I think she should do things the way I do

[00:56:45] it how many men out there you’ve been working on say a door you know I’m I’m

[00:56:51] the worst at this because I’m like a weekend warrior and I try to fix something in the house and then I have to pay someone on Monday to come and fix

[00:56:57] what I just did I do do some things okay but but how many of you been doing that as men and you’re working on it and your

[00:57:04] wife comes up and wants to talk with you about something fun because she thinks this will be a good time we have you know and and he’s trying to focus on

[00:57:11] that this is the difference between men and women’s Brains and he gets really frustrated because please I cannot do

[00:57:18] two things at once and I still remember walking into the into the house we had a

[00:57:24] little dog and and Robin was at the kitchen and she

[00:57:30] had our Savannah In Her Arms it’s back when there’s a big phone you know big phone here she’s talking to someone

[00:57:36] she’s washing something in the sink and she’s got her foot gently on top of our little dog petting the dog and I stopped

[00:57:43] and I said to myself how dides she do that I can only do one thing at a time

[00:57:48] but when can multitask better actually we got to be careful with multitasking because the brain goes into a little

[00:57:54] spasm but not as much for a female because she can go between the two hemispheres rapidly that I don’t think

[00:58:00] that had anything to do with the last question that was great it doesn’t matter um well uh Dr Welch I I we’re

[00:58:08] about out of time here so um this is such a huge blessing to have you um as a guest and to be able to share your

[00:58:14] wisdom uh with this brief amount of time for those of you listening um uh the

[00:58:20] responsive marriage is the book you can get this on Amazon you can get it you know any books are sold and um I highly

[00:58:27] recommend it incredibly useful tool um to help your marriage become less

[00:58:32] reactive less anxious um more peaceful and um more intimate ultimately more

[00:58:38] intimate closeness um and uh also the responsive

[00:58:44] marriage uh marriage conference is coming up May 17th and 18th you can find out more about that at Welch therapy

[00:58:50] institute.com Welch is wch therapy institute.com

[00:58:55] and um I hope that you’re you’re able to make it out there and um spread the word because you know we all have people in

[00:59:02] our lives whose uh marriages go through these ups and downs and we have friends

[00:59:08] or neighbors or whoever that they might be going through a tough time and this might be just the thing they need to be

[00:59:13] able to be encouraged and find some inspiration and hope and when they’re going what in the world do I do this is

[00:59:20] a a a path a guide path um to hey this is what you do and this is

[00:59:26] going to move your relationship in the right direction and uh Dr Welch I I

[00:59:32] again just want to thank you because um being in your marriage class was a huge blessing to me and to my wife helped me

[00:59:39] um I learned a bunch of things that I really was like bam that’s what I need

[00:59:44] to change right there you said it I I see it now and clarified things for me and helped our marriage um improve so

[00:59:52] thank you very much for all your hard work and your dedication to to couples oh thank you Kevin what a privilege to

[00:59:58] be with you I so appreciate what you’ve contributed to our family as well so thank you and God bless absolutely uh

[01:00:06] thanks for being here this evening folks um I hope you really enjoyed the program share it with some friends it’ll be up

[01:00:11] on YouTube and podcast you can pass it along um to your friends uh and just to encourage them and we’ll be back again

[01:00:18] next week we’ve got some incredible guests lined up we’ve had some amazing shows recently um that you can check out

[01:00:24] on on my website educate forlife.org there’s also a bunch of curriculum on there that’ll help you um develop your

[01:00:30] kids to have a confident Christian faith and grow in their walk with the Lord um as you find that useful so God bless you

[01:00:37] and I look forward to being with you next time have a wonderful evening when you need tires or service count on

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[01:01:45] Team Home Loans a branch of synergy1 lending I just want to take this opportunity to thank Kevin Conover for

[01:01:50] the profound impact he’s had on mine and my wife’s spiritual life as as well as being an incredible teacher while our

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